Help - Horton, KS

I have a hard time getting my 3 year old to help clean too. I have noticed lately that part of the problem is that she gets overwhelmed with the task of cleaning up. The other day I tried a new aproach and it worked much better then previous attempts. I had her pick up all of one thing, the stuffed animals for instance. I told her before we even started that we would take a brake after she put those things away. She picked up what was assigned to her and then I let her play for a few minutes and then gave her another assignment. This takes a lot longer then what I would generally like for clean up time and I don't think we got the whole room clean but it got her to help in some way at right now it is more important to me to teach her to help then it is to have a perfectly clean room.

I didn't read everyone's posts, but I agree with the first several. I do think it's important to teach (young) kids to clean up after themselves, but they need A LOT of direction at 3.5!

K.

Hi you have a natural manipulator and needs to be nipped in the bud or lookout for much trouble later on. We would send my daughter to the time out chair every time she tried the thing with the other parent hurt me. As for the toy thing she would be grounded to the room until she did pick them up accept the rule and told to think about it. Explain to the brother why we have to do these things to teach her proper behavior and you really need his help. Fix a chart for him and everyday he helps he gets a star end of week gets rewards based on number of stars. Fix her a chart of different colored stars such as gold for following rules, silver for parchlly following them, and red for doing nothing offer incentive for the perfect days. Good luck this worked for us.

Hi M.,
I have a couple of ideas as what could be going on. First is that she just wants more attention good or bad, my daughter is going to be 4 next month and her friend turned 4 in April, both know how to pick up after themselves, they don't always do it, but they do know how. I am not as picky about it as my friend, so I am not much help on how to get her to do it. What concerns me the most is the no don't hurt me thing. Does she go to pre-school or daycare? This kind of reaction is not normal, and leads me to think that someone might be acting in an aggressive way toward her when she doesn't mind them. I would try asking her why she would think that you would hurt her, and ask her has someone hurt her for not listening, don't give her any suggestions, just ask her. It is a good idea to know what is going on at your child's school. I ask my daughter all the time does she like her teachers, are they nice to her, if she is upset I ask her what happened that upset her. Usually it is something silly like one of the other kids called her a name, but she did tell me that one of the teachers has been calling her by the wrong name. Not the end of the world but still an issue that needs to be addressed. I hate having to leave my daughter in the care of people I don't know, I feel like I chose a pretty good place in the YMCA, but no one ever treats your child the same as you do, because no one loves your child the way you do. Hopefully this did not sound like a lecture, I in no way meant to lecture or judge, I just know that my daughter went through a lot of different emotions when we had to put her in pre-school. Good luck, hope you figure this out.
M.

I have to agree with Cari and Lisa. I don't want to sound like I am defending your little girl, but I try my best to make "clean-up" fun for my son, so he will want to do it and it no longer becomes a struggle.
She is only 3 not 7. She is still learning how to "clean-up". Over-whelming is a big possibility. Just this morning my four year old son went into his play room and asked me to help him clean up because as he stated, "mommy can you help me clean, my play room is too messy." So, of course we did it together. Therefore my suggestion to you is try and make "clean-up" fun. Sing the song, play games, do one item at a time as suggested before, remember fun is the key not perfection at the age of three. Good luck and hopefully when she is four, she will be asking you for help. Cheers, M. N.

This might seem harsh but it worked for us. Our second child was an anti-cleaner also because her big sister would feel bad and clean it for her. So one day while she was gone, I boxed up everything(EVERYTHING). She was given her mattress, pillow and a blanket. I even took the door down. She slowly earned things back. Each Friday she was given a box of items back. If I found those things on the floor that week or not cleaned up, then she didn't get a box that week. The last thing earned was her door because she couldn't stand that. It worked!!! I did buy storage containers and put photos on the containers like I do in my class so she could see where things were to go.

Good luck,
D.

kudos to Cari! She hit it on the head.

Hi, M.. This is a tough one. Have you tried telling her you will do something when she gets done with her room. Not making it a bribe, but saying that you will play a game with her or just saying, "we can't go to the pool until your room is clean." If she doesn't do it, you would have to follow through and only take her brother. Tough love teaching. I would try to watch and teach her to clean up one thing before getting out another. It takes a lot of watching by you, but it pays off. As far as the "don't hurt me" comment, does she go anywhere for care when you are working? Is there something going on there with a teacher? As a daycare provider, if I ever hear a child say this with me, I think of how the parents might be treating the child. I am reversing that thought for you. It doesn't sound like your son picks on her. It could just be attention, or something she heard on TV perhaps, if none of these other things are a factor. Saying no is very common in this age child, but they do need to learn to be respectful of others, especially their parents. Just gently remind her that she needs to listen to your words and do what is asked of her before she can do anything else. If you use the same statement over and over, she will start to know what is expected and hopefully, she will stop giving you grief about doing things. Good Luck and God Bless.

Hi M.

Sorry to tell you this, but I think your little girl is JUST 3 and 1/2..It is good to teach our kids to clean up, and help around the house, and clean the mess they leave behind sometimes, but it is better if you teach them by helping them when they are little. I do that with my 2 and 1/2 year old boy, but I do not push him too much. He actually put his toys away before going to bed, and after his bath time, but we started doing together every time for several weeks, and then he got the idea and, he is doing it by himself. Do not worry too much, let her be a kid a little bit more, and again, teach her by playing with her what you want her to do.
Good Luck!
Alejandra

I think their are alot of parents out there who are going through the same thing I have also posted some listening issues myself.When she doesn't clean her room tell her that the toys will go to another lil girl who doesn't have anything to play with and she will love your toys see her response if it doesn't get cleaned remove the toys place them into a container or trash bag and remove them from her room.Take them else where in the home storage place etc. for a while.She may end up with nothing by the end of summer but at least she'll semi understand the concept of keeping her room tidy.I started to have my kids help pick up soon after they started to walk they can get it out they can place it back where it belongs with guidance of course.And as for the Don't Hurt Me yell outs my sister did this all the time especially in church when we were growing up and it was embarrasing but I do belive it is a Girl thing I have a boy and girl and she reminds me of my sister and I.If she goes to preschool this yr that will help out to at least it did for me and my son only went twice a week for 2 hrs.

Dear M.,

You are doing a lot of great stuff already. Parents on a team is a big help. You need to add a little help to the team, your son. Talk to him and explain why he can allow his sister to play with his toys.
This will be hard. She is smart and will try to get whats by acting even worse. A few days or even weeks and she will learn you all mean business.
Good luck and God bless all of you.

Two programs that are wonderful. Love and Logic and Housefairy. To find the housefairy, go to Flylady.net.

Get the book, Making Children Mind without Losing Yours, by Dr. Kevin Leman. I just got finished reading it, and it seems to make a lot of sense. It talks about reality discipline. Like you were talking about "throwing away her toys if she doesn't pick them up". I probably wouldn't go so far as to do that, maybe instead put them somewhere she can't get them for a day or 2. Other examples would be you are going to go to the park, but she dawdles too long. So, now there isn't time to go to the park because she took too long. Hope that helps. Good luck and hang in there.

Hi M. - I agree with the last post - Love and Logic. I had the exact same problems, I read the book and started implementing the strategies the very next day and it was like I had brand new kids. I don't recall offhand the names of the authors, but the book is called "Parenting with Love and Logic." Good luck!

Isolation is the key. You need to make a very clear statement and become a broken record. "When you have picked up all your toys then you may come out of your room.

When she comes out the 2nd time, she will, respond; Have you picked up your toys? Come show me. When you go in say oh, I guess your not ready to come out with us look at all the toyu. I'll see you later. TONE of voice is very important. keep it calm matter of fact. repeat it as often as necessary.

If she refuses to stay in her room and makes a struggle out in the common areas, put her in time out for not following the rule (If you have one established) for proper conduct in the family areas. and then ignore her except to repeat the phrase "When you have picked up the toys in your room then you may. . . (whatever she wants or is asking for).else say
"come spend time with us.

My son is also going through this as well. He will be 4 in August. It is probably just a phase. He is getting better about picking up his toys. What we have found to work is to tell him to go pick up a certian type of toy, like his tools and then come to us when he is done, and we will move on to the next item, like his cars. It seems to work about 90% of the time. one problem we have is that my kids still share a room so he was expecting his sister to do all the work. We explained to him that he has to respect his toys or he wont have any and wont be allowed to play with his sister's.
I have heard of another method where you remove all toys from the bedroom and give them only a few at a time, to help teach responsibility. give her 2 -3 for a week and if she can take care of those give her 2 more the following week. I have not tried it but I have heard of others who have and said it worked.
As far as her running from one parent to the other, my son also does this. I dont have any advice for you on that one except to make sure you and your hubby are on the same page with the discipline (and it sounds like you are).
i think kids this age are eager to grow and learn new things but at the same time, they still want to be mommy's baby and try to get their way. My son got upset with us the other day and said "Why are you my parents? You guys are mean!" That obviously hurt a little but kids this age dont always understand the context of what they say. Good luck to you and I will check the other responses as well to see if there is any helpful advice I can pick up too! Thanks E.

Hi M.,

Just a couple of thoughts...I am married to a "messy." This is how he describes cleaning his room as a child: "I would go up there and start to put away stuff, then I would look around at the mess and ALL the energy would drain out of my body!" It is possible you have a child with a similar temperament. She may need a buddy to help her learn how to conquer the mess. It is unrealistic to expect a 3 year old to organize her approach to picking up the toys efficiently without any help. You don't mention how many toys are involved, but I believe we often overstimulate our children with way too many toy choices and then it is way too overwhelming to try to "pick up" the mess. Another thought is to research the concrete random learning style. I had a son with this learning style and it was very difficult to get him to do any directives. He has turned out fine, but there were many years of trying times in our house, for sure!! Here is a website that just barely outlines the tendencies of a concrete random person: www.csrnet.org/csrnet/articles/learing-styles-CR.html Best to you and your daughter!!

The Love and Logic book is great for any kind of problem you run into with your kids. I highly recommend it. As for clean up sometimes I make it a game or a race. If I tell my kids to pick up something like an animal would or like a soldier would, they do it in a heartbeat. Or I say I bet you can't clean up your room faster than I can clean up my room. But, at some point they catch on to the games and that is when you can use your Love and Logic skills. Check it out at the library.

M.,
I am not sure to what extent you are having her "clean up" but I agree that she is old enough to clean up. I have worked in Daycare and had home care for many years and kids as young as one have helped me toss toys in toy buckets while we sing the clean up song. My suggestion is make it a fun thing, a few minutes before bedtime routine or before you have to leave the house just say its time to clean up, grab a toy bucket, or laundry basket or even a toy box whatever you are using ; ) and sing the clean up song " Clean up clean up everybody everywhere clean up clean up everybody do their share! " If she sees it as something fun she will more than likely want to join in. If that doesn't work I would say if she isn't willing to help clean up the mess she made certain toys would have to go in a toy time out. It may sound mean, but put the toys in a place she can see them, but not get to them, and when she asks for them back remind her why they were takin away. If at that point you talk to her and she agrees to help pick up her toys then I think you are on your way to a super helper! ( Sticker charts for nights in a row room is clean work great too! ) Make rewards small like getting to pick an extra book at bedtime or picking a movie to watch together for family movie night or even getting to choose what dessert to have. The more simple you keep it, the easier it is to keep up.
Good Luck!!!
B.

Hi, M.!
I haven't actually worked too much on this topic with my daughter who is also 3 1/2 yrs old. I have to get things organized more simply in her room first. Like another mom said, gets some totes and label them with pictures. I do have one recommendation..you might check your local library for Loonette the Clown DVD's. It is a good series for little kids and teaches them a lesson on something each episode. But the important part here is that Loonette the clown also ends each session with a "ten second tidy" to clean up the mess she made playing that day. That is what I'm planning on using once I get organized. Good luck, there are a lot of great suggestions.
J.

How interesting that we have the same problem! My son is 8 1/2 and my (bratty) daughter is 4. She, too, has actually looked at us, as we tell her to clean up and she says, "no." Can you imagine if we said that to OUR parents as kids? And how do you physically force a child to pick up? You can't. I will anxiously watch for your responses. If you put them in time out for not picking up, isn't that almost rewarding them, b/c surely they'd rather sit in a chair than pick up. I told mine that until she picks up her toys, she can't play with them. But how long can you sit and watch your kid to make sure they don't play with their toys? It's hard; you get distracted. You're not alone. I assume we need to consistently have pick-up time so they get used to the fact that that is what we do..we pick up. Good luck!

You don't know, how much better you just made me feel, that I am not alone!! That means you are not alone, either!! And looking at some of your other responses, they are having similar problems. I hope, fingers crossed, that means that it is a phase. They are experimenting with their independence/rebelliousness. My daughter is 4. She isn't doing bad things, she just doesn't listen. And when I get upset, she says that I am being mean to her. What is trying for me, is that nothing really works in regards to discipline. Taking things away doesn't seem to phase her. Time outs only work for the moment. Doesn't do anything for the next time.

So, I tried a new plan that so far seems to help some. I developed and evening routine that allows for mommy time and individual play time, helping with dinner and clean-up time. Her favorite word is "teamwork" and when I mention that we have to work as a team so we can both have fun, she is "all about that". I am having more problems with following the routine than she is, but things are a little better for us. I still have to develop the morning one and just be better about following them and I bet it is going to help us.

I think she has been acting up because she is wanting attention. I am a single mom and I work from home. It is very time consuming and I can't just work 9 to 5 because it is for a company that is running and travelling 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, including holidays. Something is always needing to be done. So, I am at my computer alot! But I am trying to be better for her and me.

Don't know if any of this helps you, but at least you know that you are not alone!