Having Trouble with Sleep--can't Figure Out How to solve...it's Not in Any Book!

I think it has to do with the new baby because we are having somewhat similar problems. I have a 3 year old and a 6 month old. My 3 year old son was a good sleeper and went to bed without much fuss before but recently has been fighting bedtime and nap time like crazy. He tries every trick to drag out bedtime (sometimes 60-90 minutes) even when he is exhausted. I wish I had some solutions for you. I just wanted to say it is probably got to do with the baby since that seems to be a big part for us.

Is that correct his bed time is 6? If he wakes at 5 thats 11 hrs of sleep, which is sufficient for a two year old. I know its tough but maybe it is time to make his bedtime later, start with 15 to 30 min at a time. Its been awhile but when my children were 2 their bedtime was changed too. As a parent I had to adjust to having my personal time in the morning rather than at night. He could be giving you the hint by screaming at the gate. When you do decide to change his bed time he wont scream so it does not seam to him that he has the advantage and getting what he wants by screaming.

Hi,

Perhaps you can bring him to see a pediatric sleep specialist? I know a great one in northern Bergen co. in Ridgewood- Dr. Tracy Carbone. I did for my son as I suspected he had sleep apnea and he did.
I'd go lightly on the "disciplining" approach until he can be seen first to rule out any medical occurrences. Yes you have a new baby and your child I'm sure is having stress w/ adapting too.

Good Luck.

Hi There,
I have 2 good sleepers, so I don't have any advice with this exact situation. However, I did have an issue getting my 16 month old to nap again after he was hospitalized 2 mos ago- eventually I just had to let him cry it out (checking on him briefly for reassurance). In the end, I attribute there good sleeping to allowing them to learn to self soothe from an early age. Ie. I rarely ever rocked them to sleep, I put them down drowsy (not asleep)... never let them rely on the breast or bottle to fall asleep etc. Also, at certain stages I realized they would just need to cry it out, or when my daughter switched from a crib to a bed, I had do the sleep training method for naps, (ignore her, but stay in bed for a few days, then move to the floor, and gradually out of the room etc.) Consistancy is the key... when you come up with a method, don't give up. Also, he is looking for attention. Could he possibly be woken up by the baby at its feeding time?? Anyway, if you know he is safe behind the gate, just ignore him... say once, "its time to sleep", and don't give him any attention until his normal wake time. If he is not very wet, then that is not the issue... that is just an excuse he knows will work. If he does poop, change him quickly and matter of factly, then leave the room- don't say a word. Another thing that helps a lot with kids this age is making sure they get a lot of physical activity... 6:00 is very early to go to bed. Try playing outside late in the day, then quieter play before bed and a consistant bed time routine. This is probably just another phase and it too shall pass!
Good Luck

Hi Again,
I thought of one more thing. When did he go from a crib to sleeping in a bed? Did the problem get worse then? He may not be physically and emotionally ready... the confinement of the crib may give him a sense of security, and would certainly keep him from getting out of bed and calling for you from the gate. Also, he may actaully like being in a crib because the baby is in a crib too. I know you probably don't want to go back to this, but under 2 is young for a bed, and he may just not be ready. Just a thought.

Does everyone in your house go to sleep at 6?? That's really early. I would push bed time up to 7:30-8 PM . Also, stick with your instincts. If you think he's doing it for attention then chances are he is!@!!!!!Stand strong!!!!

First off....Congrats on your 8 wk old!! And having two children!! My oldest was around 2 or so when somewhat potty trained. He used to get up and wake me up when he went or going to potty and I taught him that he can go potty right there by his bedroom and then go back to bed. I am still having that trouble with my second. Hewants an "audience" there when he goes potty and it's right there by his bedroom. I have learned to trust that if I say go potty and then go to bed and sometimes i can't sleep not knowing if he did that. So, I've checked on him and he has done it here and there by himself but he still wakes me up to let me know and why, I don't know why. Also, I have heard and briefly went through this phase where if there is a baby in the house that need changing, the older one will try to do the same because he still wants to make sure that he's important in Mommy and Daddy's lives and still the baby . What you can do if you want, is to tell him that he's the big boy and that if you gets out of the diapers and potty trained and try really hard to sleep through the night then he will be the big brother to (your 8 weeks old's name). That you need him to help you get the diaper or whatever it is he is capable of getting for you. Keep encouraging him using the potty. I did and it didn't happen right off with my oldest but quickly with my second because they are only 1 yr and 3 weeks apart. So, that helped. My third we are doing some here and there because he wants to and he's 21 months today. So, we will be focusing more and more on that and he knows what that means if we say, do you want to go on the potty. He goes and sits on it. Encouragement and encouragement and encouragement. You are doing a good job and it will eventually be over with that phase. Just keep telling him that you love him and the 8 wks old. That is what I say to my boys that I love all three of them because they are all different. Congrats again and you are doing a good job, Mom!

Well its definately a problem but i believe it may be related to the new baby in the house he may be waking up when the babys waking up or you may be waking up more often because of the baby and noticiing that he is up. Additionally because of the baby being home with you are you getting out much with him making sure he is getting sufficient exercise everyday? He might not be tired enough if hes only lounging around the house all day. Make sure he has enough to eat during the day and milk will help settle him for bed as well as bath time. He may also notice that the baby gets attention from you by going to the bathroom and getting fed so it may be his way of getting attention from you too I would definately try to get him to bed a little later so he could spend more time with you and daddy and the baby in the evening even if he gets up at 5am he might not feel the need to get up in the middle of the night to see you guys if he gets that attention before he goes to bed I think eventually his sleep time will work out and he will sleep later.
Take care and good luck!
From H.

C.:

Six seems like a pretty early bedtime, especially in the summer when the sun doesn't set until after 8pm. You mentioned he thrashes alot, if his body and brain aren't ready to sleep it will be hard for him to settle down. Also, make sure his room is pretty dark, with blinds/curtains closed so the early morning sun doesn't wake him along with the chickens. We had to move our daughters bed when she was 2, since the birds that lived in the tree outside the window started tweeting before dawn.

I have found that letting my 3yro twins play after dinner for 30 min then have bedtime routine (bath, brush teeth, story etc) they sleep better and longer. This time of year is especially good since they can play outside after dinner--something about the cooler night air that makes them rest better. Also, I limit snacks and drinks before bed, this will come in handy when you start the road to potty training too.

This ontop of a new baby is a lot to deal with, even before our twins my husband and I found that 'divide and conquer' was the best way to get our kids to sleep. Every night we would switch kid responcibilities, so everyone got special bedtime bonding time.

Good luck!

Hi C.! Congrats on the new arrival. :) My feeling is that the issue with your two-year-old is related to the new baby. I only say that because I had my second son when my first was 15 months old, and we too went through a grueling stage of on-command vomiting by the older guy. I was cleaning up puke at least once daily despite that my older son was not sick; that was his way of throwing a temper tantrum and getting more attention from me -- even though it wasn't positive attention. My son, like yours, gets TONS of attention from me and my husband and our nanny every day; however I attribute the puking to his need for more -- or just simple reassurance that we'll step away from his little brother when he needs us.

Fortunately things are easing up with the throwing up in my household; my newborn is 4 months old now, and we haven't had a tantrum-related puking episode in almost two weeks (knock wood!). Hopefully your older guy will start to mellow out with his cry for attention once he and his brother begin to relate more (I bet your 8-week-old is starting to/or will soon start to make eye contact with his brother and give him smiles); once this started happening for us, things began evening out.

Good luck to you! I'm sure this stage will pass!!

Maybe he's just more aware of his pee/poop and it is uncomfortable for him now. My two year old can sleep through a wet diaper, even wet pjs & sheets but if he poops, he's up. If he is cold, he's up. As an adult I wake up to pee during the night and I can't imagine sleeping with a poopy diaper. He's not an infant anymore, he knows when he's uncomfortable, he's also smart, two year olds are...as for fighting before bed, again, he's two, he knows how to manipulate and work it and he knows that bedtime means no more playing, being away from mommy and daddy, etc. My two year old is very smart and has been working the bedtime fight for a long time now. Also theres a new baby. Thats a lot of change so he might be having some stress/anxiety from that. As an adult when theres a major change or stress, my husband and I find it hard to sleep. Look at it through his eyes and don't worry so much about the books...just be there for him, stick to your routines where you can, be flexible where you can b/c again, he's TWO...he's smart, he's challenging, he's aware, he's testing, but he's also a baby still. When he wakes just try to get him back to sleep. At this age they are able to fight sleep but they don't wake themselves up purposely...if you want to go by a book, know that I read that in a book somewhere. And I also read that just like adults toddlers wake several times during the night its just a matter of how or if they can get themselves back to sleep. Obviously at this point your son is waking but unable to go back to sleep. Please, he sounds like my husband!!!! The worst sleeper ever - LOL!

Oh- i feel your pain. My house was up at 4:45 this morning. My older son will be 3 in Sept. and my youngest boy is 10 months. When our baby was born last Aug., our older boy was just shy of 2- and he started protesting bedtime (never did before) and getting up between 4:30 and 5 am. I thought I was going to lose my mind. Up all night w/baby and then crack of dawn with my 2 yr old. He would also wake=up calling for me several times a night. We tried everything (all the books), but finally I just sat in a chair in his dark room, w/out saying anything and he would get right into bed and settle down. He eventually stopped needing this. There was nothing to do about the early wake-up. Going to sleep later for him just meant less sleep.

It was a phase.

He's finally sleeping like a rock. Still gets up early-around 6,sometimes to poop, but what can you do.
Maybe your boy is feeling a little unsure of things w/ a new baby, but it will pass.
Maybe give him lots of fruit in the a.m. or early afternoon to encourage the poop before bedtime.(not banana)
I always try to tire my kids out in the afternoon. Lots of running/crawling, climbing, swimming, playgrounds, etc. This really seems to make a difference. Run 'em ragged!
Good luck. It's surely a phase.

Perhaps there is a medical reason why your 2-year old wakes constantly through the night? (But if there were nights that he did sleep all the way through, then probably not.) I just suggest the possibility, because my 20-month old never slept through the night (despite 2 attempts at sleep-training at 6 mos and 10 mos) until last month, when we started her on a trial course of Prevacid (prescription antacid). She really had no other symptoms of acid reflux except not wanting to chew table food very well (so most of her food is still overcooked and mushy). I never would have assumed she had reflux, because she never had the obvious symptoms as an infant. But, not sleeping through the night often occurs with babies/toddlers that have reflux. Now she sleeps in her crib in her room until about 5am (going to bed around 8pm). Sometimes she goes back to sleep in our bed until 7am, and sometimes she doesn't. But, this is a MUCH better situation than when she was waking 3-4 times per night. I am so glad that I stuck to my gut and didn't force her to cry-it-out at night. She was waking up in discomfort and pain, and not because she couldn't settle herself back to sleep. (Which is what I suspected, because she is able to put herself down for a nap without any help at daycare.) And, once the medicine started to kick-in, if she wakes up in the middle of the night, the vast majority of the time she tosses and moans for a couple minutes and can put herself back to sleep without us intervening...and without having to CIO. We're still working on the 5am (on-the-dot!) wakings, though, so I've been following your postings...

if i understood your correctly and his bedtime is 6, i say wayyy early. my kids at 2 went to bed at 7:30, mostly by 8.
i like the gate idea. we had one too until my kids were 3 and a half almost 4. also, even if they woke up, they went by the gate, on occasion, and unless they told us they needed to go potty we didn't go talk to them. we knew they were safe, our bedroom was right next to theirs plus we have monitors all over the place. i think he's waking up because he knows he'll get your attention and that you'll go talk to him. the CIO every 5 or 10 minutes never worked for us. CIO with no contact unless they cried and the cry changed we didn't go talk to them. we were out of their sight but close enough to hear what was going on. anyways i know it's early and i am rambling. bottom line my suggestion would be
later bedtime routine. read books, explain that he needs to sleep and that you'll see him in the morning and then allow him to wake up go to the gate call for you but don't go in unless you think something's up. he'll get tired of waiting
good luck

it could have a lot to do with the new baby for sure. I know you're tired but it sounds like just a phase and will pass. If I were you, I'd just change his diaper and bring him into bed with me when he gets up at 4 a.m. Will he go back to sleep for a few hours that way? You have an 8 week old need to sleep as much as you can. I am not a huge advocate of kids sleeping in the parents bed, but even I am too tired to deal sometimes and just stick him in bed with us and he goes back to sleep.
Lynsey

Two things come to mind regarding your little one. Lavender essential oil. The properties of this oil help to relax, calm and soothe. I use it when I have trouble sleeping. It really helps. You can use a few drops in the bath water, a few drops in a humidifier (if he uses one) or a few drops on the wrists. He goes to bed very early, try consistently putting him down at least one hour later. I would push for 7:30 pm bedtime.

The second thing may sound a little crazy but perhaps you should start toilet training the 2 year old. If he is sophisticated and manipulative enough to get your guys up, use it to your advantage and begin the process of training. This way you would only have one diaper to change and not two.

Hang in there. Continue to be consistent and loving and change will come. Hope this was helpful to you.

You've moved his bedtime up and he's still getting up before 5? I'm not saying to move his bedtime up later so he sleeps past 5. I'm saying move it up so he goes back to just getting up at 5 vs. 3 or 4.

Maybe he's having a growth spurt. My youngest is 22 months old and hasn't slept through the night yet. He does tend to get up more often if he isn't feeling well but sometimes he just needs to know we are there and then he goes back to bed. Having 2 older children I know this will pass at some point and just enjoy that he still needs me. Yeah I'm tired but again, I know it won't last forever so I just go with it.

6:00 seems like a pretty early bedtime, even for a 2 year old. At that age, I put my kids to bed around 7:15. If he is tired at 6:00 (where he starts falling asleep), maybe he needs another nap during the day. (Is he taking a nap during the day)?

Lately, my 6 year old daughter has been getting up at 5:45 to use the bathroom and then she can't go back to bed... it's totally annoying b/c she wakes up our younger twins too. Not sure what to do about it, although your son SHOULD be able to go in his diaper and sleep through it (pee at least).

I agree with the others.... as much as you think the new baby isn't affecting him, he is probably trying to get your attention so he's probably going through a stage. I hope for your sake it gets better. Two kids under two is tough (I know because I had THREE under two at one point.... it gets better, I promise!!)

Hi C., my advise is unconventional. Why not let him sleep in your room with you if that soothes him. He is still rather young and moreover, co-sleeping is known to be very health promoting and sleep promoting for all children. Here are some links that offer an alternative view to our western culture's view.

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2000/1...

Also, Three in a Bed is an excellent book about the health benefits of co-sleeping. I hope this helps.

T. Parker, Certified Holistic Health Counseor
www.myfoodtherapy.com