Going to Dinner with Friends, 14 Year Old Wants to Come.

When I was a teenager my mom always took me with her on 'ladies night out' or luncheons with her friends. My mom was the only one that brought their daughter. Now, as an adult I am really good friends with some of my mom's really good friends!!!

absolutely doing the right thing, if she wants you can take her to dinner at another time just the two of you. If she doesn't want to go with the little kids to dinner with daddy then she can stay home and eat leftovers.

Yes, you deserve time to just be you, not a mother or wife, but just to relax with other woman. She may not understand now, but one day she will.

I think maybe a better approach might have been to explain that while she is growing and maturing into a wonderful woman that it is important for you to have time with your friends just as she has time with her friends. It has nothing to do with her age or whether or not you believe her to be mature enough. Just that you need downtime too. And perhaps you can all plan a lunch/dinner out with the adults and daughters.

If she is asking to go with you, it may be that she is asking to be included as a young woman and not with Daddy and the kids. Does she know your friends? If so, and if they are friendly to her, then she may not understand why taking her along on one of your GNO's doesn't necessarily work for you or them.

Perhaps a good compromise might be to have a "bring our older daughters along" night with the girls. Not all of them have older daughters probably, but some probably do. Maybe you could just get together with all of them. But also make special Mom/Daughter time for the two of you. THAT is what she is signalling she needs.

And yes, getting her period DOES make her a "woman"--just a very young one who is not yet mature. If you haven't already done so, you may want to think about creating a ceremony for her and possibly a couple of her closest friends and some strong women who know them. We have lost touch with the very ancient practices that ALL our ancestral cultures had regarding a coming of age when a young girl enters her menstrual cycles. This is a powerful time, a forming time, and she needs to feel loved, welcomed, and supported in becoming a fertile, creative, and strong young woman.

I think you should try to preserve your night out with friends -- like you said, it's a time for you to go out (1x per month--that's not asking too much!) without parental responsibilities.

But I think that you should try to make an effort to include her in some of the grown-up things, like having a 2nd night out with this group (or part of this group) and their older children, so your daughter can enjoy being part of the "adult" group.

From the flip side of this, my niece is at about the same age, and I have been bothered by her "tagging along" with us during our "ladies night out" (which we have even more infrequently, more like 2x per year) with my sisters/sister-in-law. I'm not the only one bothered by it, too. It's not that I don't love spending time with my niece--she is wonderful--but having my niece there makes me and my sister/sister-in-law (but not her mom, of course...) more reticent and we don't feel we can really talk about stuff that we may want to..... So, maybe that will give you a different perspective on it.

You're absolutely doing the right thing. You're the adult and it's YOUR time to spend with YOUR friends. It's really about boundaries. What you said about her not being a woman may have hurt her feelings, but it's true. She's only 14, she's got a long way to go before she truly becomes a woman.

Yes you're doing the right thing. Getting together with your friends has nothing to do with being a "woman". It has to do with "getting together with YOUR friends". My daughter could be 25, married with 3 kids and I *still* wouldn't invite her out to my once-a-month dinner with my friends. Your daughter should understand that this is a non-issue with you and that there's no reason for her to be upset, it's not personal, they're just YOUR friends, not hers. Would she want YOU to hang out with her and HER friends the next time they go to the mall or movies together? I would think not...

Yes, your response was just fine. But maybe you need to have a "date night" with just her, she might just be wanting to spend time with you.

Okay, so you're doing the right thing. But at the end of the day, your daughter's disappointed. This is not to say that you should have her come along, but to think about how to address her point of view.

She feels grown up. (My son at two told me "now that I'm grown up... etc.") So I guess we are born feeling grown up. Can you look for some sort of solution? Have a talk like 'I want to have mom's night out. You want to be part of the adults now. What can we do?'

Maybe the solution is as simple as having a separate get together with a smaller number of your friends and have your daughter come. I might even try to have it be boring conversation so she wouldn't want to go again either. <wink> Or look at it as a way to stay close to her as she enters a new phase of her life. I would want to know what my teen is doing and what she thinks about the world. You don't have to be limited to just this one moms get together for your social life.

I think you can be teaching an important larger lesson - there is a conflict of desires, here's how to work it out. You're now teaching problem solving along with addressing the specific issue. To me that's a great thing and a GREAT skill to give her for the rest of her life.

I think you handled this situation the best you could. I absolutely agree that your once a month GNO is a special occassion for you and not a place to be taking your 14-year old daughter. Not only would it have been uncomfortable and compromising of your special time out with the girls, it would have been the same for your friends as well. However, I would suggest taking your daughter to a lunch or dinner date that you have with maybe one or two of your friends sometime in the near future. Maybe your daughter will enjoy it and will get a lot out of being around you and your friends, or maybe she'll be completely bored with your conversation and will never ask to go out with you ever again.

None of this has anything to do with her being a woman and celebrating womanhood. Is she a woman? That depends on your definition of a woman. I personally believe that she can be considered a woman (although one that is not fully mature in a rounded way- a period alone does not a mature woman make).

What is important here is that she is NOT an adult! You are absolutly doing the right thing by telling her she cannot go. Most, if not all, of the 'adult' conversations that will be transpiring are none of her business. Plain and simple.

Plan a girls night out with her seperate from your adults only GNO.

I think you are. This is your time with your adult friends. It's a generational boundary issue. Although upset, encourage her to accept your need for adult friends and spending time with them. Perhaps, offer t5o take her to dinner, just mom and daughter.

YUP!!! This is YOUR time to be away from your children. Maybe I would have said something along the lines of, "I am really excited to go hang out with my girlfriends. Wouldn't it be wierd if I wanted to hang out with you and your girlfriends? Of course!! I would love to take you out one night, just mama and daughter, how about that?"
I wish I had girlfriends to go out with!! That is the time that you can talk about life in general, family, kids...whatever, and not have to worry about young ears.
I totally think you were in the right!
L.

Yes, you did the right thing. You need the time alone with your friends to be your own person for awhile, not just a mom.

She probably wants to start feeling like a grown up instead of a kid. Maybe you can plan another activity to do with her (and not your other daughters) where she can feel more like an adult - a fancy restaurant, or lunch with just 1-2 of your girlfriends separate from your monthly dinner.

If you let her go, you are giving her permission to go past your boundaries and also attempt a whole lot of other things in the future. How do you think she will be if you want to go with her and her girlfriends somewhere throughout the years. You can go for a special time by yourself with her. She needs to know you are a Separate person other than her mother and that she cannot always get her own way. She is becoming a woman, one who will have her own friends. Yes, you are doing the right thing.

You did the right thing. Ask her how she would feel if you came out with her and her best friends for the night. She would probably hate it as there would be conversation that is not suitable for a parent's ear. Same thing here- It is not fair to your friends to bring her along as the presence of a young teenager will surely inhibit conversation. Additionaly, you do her no service by caving in to her demands like this. She is being somewhat manipulative so don't feel too bad about telling her no. Make a date night with her-go shopping, movies, dinner or whatever.

Oh Lisa! I can't believe that, of all the responses you received from moms about your question, only Theresa got the true issue! Your sweet dd was not asking to take time away from you and your friends! She was asking to be acknowledged as a woman in her own right. Having your period is a HUGE deal and we, in today's society, almost see it as an embarrassment. Such a tragedy for us as tender, new women in society. When you told her she wasn't a woman, that was like a slap in the face. You are not asking us if telling her she couldn't go was right. Sure, time with your friends is time with your friends. She would be mortified if you asked to go hang out with her and her friends. Simple. You knew there was something more going on but couldn't put your finger on it. And why should you? We think of things like celebrating coming of age as something archaic (although Jewish tradition has Bar Mitzvah's for their children and the Hispanic tradition has the quinceanera for the girls). We forget how important these ceremonies are for us and our children. Please look into some kind of celebration for your dd. I'd also apologize to her for telling her she's not a woman. Here's a site to help you get started:

http://www.celebrategirls.com/fmceremony.htm

Good luck!

These are your friends. How would they react if your bring your daughter in an (adult) girls night out? or if you would bring any other new person?
When you both can talk calmly about it, you can tell your daughter:
- it is not about her age. You wouldn't bring her if she would be 18 because you girls are friends and share secrets that nobody knows about.
- she doesn't belong to this group. She needs to be invited in by the others and accepted, not only to impose her presence and possibly make others uncomfortable.
- how would she like if you demand to join her time with her own friends?
- her age is not the main issue but you may be refused entry in some adult paces if she is with you.
- Explain her she is not rejected because she is a "kid" or "too young", that you love that she wants to be involved in your life and with your friends but these dinners are not the time or place for that (and many moms suffer exactly the contrary: teens who reject them!)

In the other hand, she is sending you signals that she wants to be considered an adult, not a kid who goes with daddy on the kids' dinner. You can find a compromise, like invite her to some adult activities (dinner, lunch, or other) or talks at another time, maybe with a couple of your friends.

Treat her (in reasonable limits) like the responsible adult she wants to be, talk to her like you would with your adult friends, so she doesn't crave these dinners and make clear that "age" is not the only key to attend.

14 is a tough age for a girl. Find time to bond with her. Maybe she is trying to have time with YOU, maybe she wants to share some adult talk with you and she sees these dinners as the only option (far from daddy's and sibling's ears).

;

Absolutely. Grown women talk about grown women things sometime, and you deserve a night to yourself and your lady friends. I wouldn't change the format of the dinners, like bringing kids along, because if every woman there wanted to hang out with their kids, then they wouldn't leave the house in the first place. At 14, she is no where near a woman. Not legally, not mentally or emotionally. This is only a once a month thing, don't guilt yourself about it, friends are an important part of who we are aside from "Mommy". Tell her that when she is grown, not necessarily 18, but a grown woman that she may go(if you want), but until then, you will be going by yourself. She wouldn't like it if you went to a sleepover at one of her friend's houses, and butted into her teenager business, now would she? Ask her if you could come to the next party she attends,she'll get the point.

I haven't read everything below, but it sounds like you are doing the right thing. Maybe set up a special night for the two of you go out to dinner or do something else you can enjoy together. If she really wants to go out with your friends, maybe do dinner with one friend and her, or one of her friends and their mom. You could even do dinner and a movie. Also let her that the time with your husband is special to him and he really enjoys the one on one time with her. Maybe instead of just dinner they could do something else with dinner, baseball game or something that they might both enjoy or a dinner at a nicer restaurant, so she can get dressed up a little to go (not to say they aren't already going to a great restaurant I'm sure). You could also maybe drop her a friend or two off for a movie and maybe a dinner out by themselves, so she can have her friend time. This may be something you already do too.

You absolutely have that right.

That being said, your daughter seems pretty worldly. Maybe make a girls night out for you and your daughters too? I am sure you do that anyways, but maybe it should be a regular thing to honor their "womanhood" or impending womanhood. It would be a great way of keeping the communication open and keep your relationship on the right track.

I love that she mentioned that she was a woman since she had her period. I really don't think in this society we honor that milestone as much as we could!

Yes, you are doing the right thing!! Im a mother of 4, under the age of 8. And my children are so use to me being home that I can't even take the trash out by myself or etc. I don't have any friends where I live now or sitters or etc. But I gave myself "mommy's time-out". And I go into my room for a nap, read, talk on phone or go shopping. All mothers should have the right to have a nite to themselves so they can have fun, talk with other adults and etc. Maybe you can have a day for each off your child to do what ever they want and they are with you all alone. good luck. let me know if you need to talk, Im always around....

you are perfectly within your rights to want face time with your girlfriends, and having a kid there (even one who is a young woman) changes the dynamic. sometimes it's unavoidable, but i know whenever my lovely little group gets together there's always an inaudible sigh if one of us has to bring kids. it's not that we don't absolutely adore each other's children, but we have get-togethers that are based on the kids. we also like our time that's set aside just for us.
but i'd be upset with you too if i were a young woman and my growth thresholds were brushed aside this way. 'you are still growing and someday you will understand' is something said to a baby, not to a teenager who is perfectly capable of understanding what is explained to her logically and without condescension. give your daughter the respect she deserves as a young woman and explain to her why you really prefer to keep this particular date to yourself. then plan a girls' night out with your daughter, and maybe some other moms with girls her age. and celebrating her period's arrival is also a lovely idea, even if she's had it for a while. i completely agree with the moms who have pointed out what a loss it is for our girls that this important rite of passage is so ignored in our society.
khairete
S.

Yes you most certainly are doing the right thing. Kids always test us and sometimes we have to keep that it mind with these kinds of things. Just because her body is maturing doesn't mean her mind or understanding is keeping up with it and sometimes we have to explain these things coming from this angle although she probably won't want to hear it. But even so I've more often than not seen kids think about it even if they don't say so.

Absolutely you are doing the right thing! You need that time away with your ladies to just hang out and not have to worry about the kiddos.

Perhaps you can go to lunch/dinner with just your older daughter every now and then as a "womens day out" thing to make her feel special and older?

you are, she may just feel a little insecure about your monthly date nights. perhaps spend some special time with her, she may just be a little needy.

She needs to understand that you need time alone with your friends to take a very short break from being a wife and a mom. That you aren't going to expect her to want you to come along to the movies or football games with her in school when she starts doing those activities.

I think you are perfectly right in not letting her go...you need your un wind time as well. I would make sure to take her and do something just the two of you, and maybe explain to her a little more the reasoning behind her not being allowed to go.

Maybe you could plan a night that you and all your friends bring your teen kiddos, then it would be appropriate for her to join you. :)

This is something you do once a month, this is your time, she can not come end of story. Everyone needs a little time with friends and since you only do this once a month it is precious time with them.

With that when she asks arrange a time the two of you can just hang out (movie, out to eat, whatever). If she is still anger she needs to see that this is not just about being a women but about YOU hanging out with friends just like she likes to hang out with her friends without the parents around.

Yes, you are right about not including her on your girls evening out. I don't think having a period makes you a woman (does that mean we're not women once menapause hits? - ridiculous!) (in some countries once you have you're period you are old enough to marry - hence marriage when a girl is 11 or 12 yrs old - also ridiculous but that's just my opinion). In my mind a woman is an adult female, and being an adult means a LOT more than bleeding for a few days every month.
That being said, you could have a more grown up date night at a different time with just your daughter or maybe with your daughter and a friend of yours with a teen age daughter. It's a whole different kind of a girls evening out than what you have with your friends.

I'm responding quite late to your question. Hopefully you've found a way to talk with your daughter about this issue in a way that validated both of your feelings. You were right to not take her. There will be other occasions similar to this and I have a suggestion to learn a way that will make it easier to talk with a child/teen. My goal is to end a conversation so that both of us felt heard. Not always possible but it can be done more often with practice.

I suggest that you get the book, How to Talk so Kids Will Listen & How to Listen So Kids Will Talk by Edna Ferber and Elaine Mazslich. Yes, you are right to keep this night as your night with other adults. How you respond with words to your daughter will make a big difference. Sounds like you focused on the reasons why she can't go. If you'd been able to focus on her feelings and why she was asking, I suggest that she wouldn't have been so upset or would have gotten over her hurt feelings faster.

I've found that it isn't easy to change the way I word things but when I do the outcome is much better. We can get co-operation or rebellion with just a few words. We can feel close or alienated with just a few words.

You're doing well as a parent. I think you handled your daughter lying in a reasonable and positive way. You might've had an easier time of it with her if you'd used different words but you effectively reinforced the idea that responsibility is important by teaching her using logical consequences. She'll be having consequences her whole life.

Another good book to help with discipline is How to Parent With Love and Logic. There is one specifically for teens and preschoolers as well as several others I haven't seen yet. They also have a web site that will give you an idea of their philosophy.

The older she gets the less she will want to spend time with you. Now is a good time to include her so that you foster this feeling of "hanging out with Mom is fun" not "hanging out with Mom is a drag". Lots of girls 14-18 wouldn't want to hang out with their Mothers.

My 13 year old son LOVES to hang out with me and my friends. He says that adult conversations are way more interesting than the ones he has with his friends. He's turning into a real cool, well-rounded young man and I think it's because my husband and I give him positive adult time from which to learn how to be a cool person, not just a snotty little teenager.

I don't think you did wrong, I think you could have left out the "you are not a woman", I agree with Kelley A. and yes, she is a woman, she could have kids and in some cultures she could even be married, (I actually get sad when kids get their period so young) I think what you mean to say is that she wasn't old enough.
I would have bring my kid if she ask me, she may just curious on what women do. I would have explain her that this was NOT going to be an every time thing, that I need my time alone and that sometimes my friends or me need to talk personal things or that my friends also need time out without their kids and would not be fair for me to bring mine.
Whit that say, I would have ask my friends before I would bring her I (for ONE day) if that is ok or ask them if I could bring her another time, perhaps another of my friends have the same issue.
PS: I remember going with my mom and her friends (I was about 29) and I have a blast, it was so funny to see her in a different light, and I learn so much about her...somethings that I didn't wish to know, lol.
Would I wanted to become part of her group friends? NOOO
Did I have an amazing time and laugh my head off, yes, I love it.

like someone else said, she just wanted to spend time with you like a big girl. i think i can't wait for my daughters to be old enough to join me.
but if the evening is just for you to get away time from the family then you should have said so. you should have said this is mommy time, and i want to relax and talk about anything with my friends. how about you and i have a date night this week or next.
that way you don't tell her she's not an adult but you tell her what you really need. i see nothing wrong with you going out with your friends. i ahve days like that. there are friday evenings after my husband gets back from work when i said here are the pjs, kids are bathed, i am going out, and i just go for a short ride, or a coffee run or sit at the park. i honestly just come to that point where i will either cry or get away on my own for 1 hr. one of my daughters is super attached to me. i know she cries when i leave, so always always before i leave i tell her to go to bed and not fall asleep because i will be back in 1 hr and will cuddle with her. that calms her down, and she waits for me. i get back refreshed, all missing my babies and go in their room.

Completely doing the right thing. This is your time to unwind, listen to your friends issues (which your daughter should not hear), and to share what is going on in your life. Let her know that when she grows up she can go out to dinner with her friends.

I take my 7 year old daughter out with my friends and I to dinner sometimes. I do this with their knowledge ahead of time so they know the topics on conversation are going to be around kid ears. But my daughter and I are friends, I am her mother first and we both know that, but we enjoy doing a lot of things together. And she likes to be considered a "woman" too, or at least a big girl. Your daughter probably just wanted to spend some time with you. But at the same time, you need your time alone too. So I dont know. But if her feelings were really hurt, maybe let her come every few months. She is getting older and you don't want to alienate her, but you need your mom time too...this is a tough one!

Of course you need time on your own, just you and your friends. These dinners should be just the adults. At the same time, it sounds like your daughter wants to be included in your group of friends occasionally, and that is perfectly fine. My mom included me in conversations and occasional outings/teas with her friends while I was growing up, and some of those friends of my mom became my friends, too. They taught me a lot about life, and I appreciated their wisdom.

Now that my mom passed away at an early age, I am still close to her friends, who support me, and "mother" me, even though I'm a grown up now. I would include your daughter in some grown up events. Maybe have a "lady's tea" with a few friends who have daughters around the same age, and talk about anything and everything. Teenagers are growing up, but they still have a lot of questions, and they really need their moms. Spending time with other moms can help your teen to define herself as she gets older, and can inspire her life's path.

Keep your alone time, but also give your daughter a window into the world she will soon be entering. Best wishes!!! xo.