Friend or No Friend

Her life is her life and you really, to put it bluntly, have no right to try and tell her what she's doing wrong, especially if she's saying she doesn't want to hear what you have to say. If she comes right out and asks for your opinion, that's different, but other than that your job as her friend is to be there for her and be happy for her when she's happy. I went through this with one of my friends with a guy she met in Florida that was from Ireland. At first I constantly voiced my concerns, but I should've known that once she knew what my concerns were, I had no right to continue to voice them. We basically stopped being friends because of this. We still talk maybe a few times a year, but we were emailing almost everyday and talked on the phone a few times a week before this all happened. If I could go back, I would totally mind my own business after my initial voicing of opinion. You should do this too. People around us are going to constantly do things we disagree with and don't think are right for them. But, we're all adults, and it's not up to us what other people do in their lives. The best thing for you to do would be to get together with her and not even ask about her ex. Talk about other things that you guys would talk about before he was in the picture. One thing I've learned in my adult life is that there are times when you just have to keep your mouth shut and butt out. It's better to be a good listener than to be a "Debbie Downer"

To me it sounds like you need to move on and grow in your life. I read a book one time that talked about friend versus people we know. There is a fine line between the true meaning of a friend and someone you know. Sometime people come into our lives to give us strenth to move on an mature. When we think we have a true friendship there is work to the friendship but not an emotional drainage feeling. I think that she seems to enjoy the drama of this other guy and is bored with the one she is now sort of dating?.. I have a friend like this she is dating a guy who seems to be really the best guy I have heard about her dating all the others seems to be very immature. But she keeps going back to the ones that are immature. I don't know if she thinks she can fix them or what but I have decided that I am now married with my family and that I need to focus on my life. I think that is what you need to do is focus on your life. I would not cut the communication off but I would just not make an effort to call or talk to her. If she comes to you just listen and that is it.

There is nothing you can do but back up out of the picture and let her do what she will with her life. I have a friend in the same boat and wont listen to reason. I have distance myself and talk to her every once in awhile. good luck to you.

Sometimes, you just have to turn people lose and let them ilve their own lives and deal with the consequences.

Nobody is immune from having "brain spasms" that cause them to make bad decisions (like keep going back to the ex)...despite the definition of insanity being keep doing the same things expecting different results.

I've had friends that I've had to turn lose, not that I wanted to but because, like you said, at some point you just can't take it anymore. I've had friends who've alienated themselves from people for saying that a couple shouldn't get married because they aren't "supposed to be together" only to have that couple end up getting divorced later on.

It's one of those situations where maybe you can be friends, but you will need to set up boundaries. She's already set up some for you in that she doens't talk to you about certain things because she knows you'll disapprove and tell her what you really think (which is what friends are supposed to do). Let her know you can be friends if she still wants, but there are just some things you guys can't talk about. I've had friends in that realm too.

Not sure if I helped any, but for what it's worth....and good luck!

Interesting. I'm in the EXACT same situation with a male friend I've been very close to (lived w/ me for almost three years, I helped raise his daughter, did business projects together, etc) for almost 20 years. I know him better than he knows himself. Hang with me.......

As much as I love him, I could NOT be in a relationship with him and never have. Do I think the potential is there......ABSOLUTELY! But NOT until he grows up and understands what makes a relationship work and what doesn't.

He's too immature and self centered, despite how much fun, charming, witty, etc. he can be. Truth is, when it comes to intelligence, he's very MUCH above the norm. When it comes to his personal life and relationships, he's a train wreck! I've watched him go thru MULTIPLE relationships over the years, including the one I warned him about that ended up being his daughter's mother. They were never married. THANK GOD! He just doesn't listen and never has. I'm a very intuitive person and have been right 100% of the time, about his relationships as well as other male friends' relationships that have ended in disaster. He's 44.

Currently, he's in a VERY toxic relationship! Worst one YET!! She already cheated on him once and went back to an old boyfriend. He said he could never go back, well, with alot of pushing from her, he has. He always talks about being a man of his word.....Only when it's convenient. LOTS OF SELF DECEPTION.

This female (I won't even call her a woman - she doesn't deserve to be called one) has convinced him that he needs to distance himself from me, his other female friends, family, neighbors, etc. She's VERY insecure, controlling and manipulative.

My friend has been warned by this female's neighbors, me, his family, neighbors and other friends even the first time. He just doesn't listen or get it. That's all he knows. He's too proud to get help.

I KNOW that God puts people into your life for all kinds of reasons, INCLUDING people to hurt you to teach you lessons. Some people just refuse to learn from their mistakes. They are so self assured that they think they can handle things on their own and know what's best. God WILL teach you diffently.

The Bible says we are NOT to waste our breath on rebels and proud men who won't listen. It also says that God despises those who say good is bad and bad is good. People who don't WANT to hear the truth will stay away from you.

I think this is the GRAND FINALE for him. He's on the verg of losing the most loyal friend he's had for almost 20 years, his daughter--she's trying to break those ties too and his daughter looks at me like a mother and has called me "MOM" since before she was 2- the STRONGEST and most consistent stabilizing force she's got - and she's feeling like she's not getting enough time with me and feels as if she's losing me. NOT by my choice. I told her I would NEVER make that kind of choice. I couldn't love her more if she were my own.

She bawled and bawled last weekend (she's 6) and poured her heart out to me. It killed me! I tried to talk to him about her need to feel secure and safe and like she matters. All he said was, "I know." His actions are speaking MUCH louder than his words.

This is a guy who has told so many people how blessed he was to have someone like me in his life, someone who he knows and has stated...will never love him and his daughter as much as me. He's even publically stated that I was the epitomy of a wife, mother & friend. He's mentioned numerous times that anyone who tried to come between me and his daughter would be "GONE". That toxic relationship has made that a lie.

He's said repeatedly that I will ALWAYS be a part of his daughter's life, yet he's allowing this self centered manipulative person to drive a wedge in the most consistent stabilizing secure relationship she's got. In a way.......I think he's a coward. He feels he's "earned" his pride. You KNOW what God does with proud men......!!

These people do NOT want to talk about it. They say there's nothing to talk about. How can you say after 20 years and raising a child together that there is nothing to talk about?

Bottom line, I've been up HOURS & HOURS & HOURS the past several weeks in the middle of the night reading and praying. I KNOW without a doubt that God knows the situation and that I need to put my time & energy into something positive NOT trying to convince someone (who doesn't want to be convinced) that this relationship is not toxic. IT WILL FAIL and FAIL MISERABLY. Just give it time. In the meantime, you have to do what's best for you and your family.

I've told him I love him too much to watch him self destruct again. THIS time, his daughter is involved. That's the worst part of all. His daughter doesn't like her either and thinks she's mean to him. This female has ABSOLUTELY NO RESPECT for him, his daugher, his relationships, etc. All she cares about is her.

I think you need to approach it the same way. Takes ALOT of the stress off. STILL hard, but really does help. People that drain you need help. They don't realize how much they are draining themselves either. I hear him all the time say how tired he is. Not rocket science! You put SO much emotional energy into it that it drains you physically.

Tell you you're not walking away from her as a friend, but that sometimes the best thing a friend can do when they don't want to listen is to let her find out on her own. Tell her that when she decides to get help so that she won't make the same mistakes all her life, you'll listen, be there and help her get help.

I've even had dreams to CONFIRM all of this and KNOW that this is a BAD BAD BAD situation that will NOT last. He has to learn on his own. Why should you help someone who doesn't want to be helped? That's NOT selfish!

Might want to read POWER vs. FORCE as well as the book of Proverbs. LOTS of guidance here as well as what is toxic and what is a good relationship. For now........WALK away. There are causes and people who want help. Put your time and energy there instead.

Your friend is very immature. Reading what you wrote I wanted to say to her "Oh, grow up!". She should love her boyfriend for what he says and does, not what he looks like. It sounds to me like she knows what she is doing is wrong or she wouldn't try to hide it from you. You have 2 options:

1. Be there for this girl if she calls. Ignore her guy problems, just let her figure it out. OR

2. Tell her "you know you are going to get hurt if you go back to your ex. You have a great guy now who is treating you good, so if you lose him, it will be your own fault and I'm not going to feel sorry for you".

Also, concentrate on finding friends that are happily married, that you have more in common with.

WOW! She won't listen to you and your good advice. Then
she has rocks in her head and looks like she is on the path to ruining her own life. Let her ruin her own life.

Is this on and off guy offering her stability, marriage, home and a family? Of course not. This is a good example of how women RUIN their lives by hanging around with jerks. She is trying to make this relationship WORK when she probably can't reason with him herself!

My best friend was that way. I could not reason with her that the other friend we knew who was stabbing her and me in the back was plain no good. We are no longer that close because I can not TRUST her judgement with the selection of people she hangs around with. After we got banged in our face and behind our back by Mrs. Banger, she rated Mrs. Banger is her best friend.

You need to read the poem, "Comes the Dawn". It is in Google. Life is like a garden where good plants (freindships) come and go. Sometimes you have to walk away from bad relationships because they are psychologically
damaging to yourself.

You have a right to decide who you want on your turf.
It sounds as if this situation is psychologically draining to you. I would cut her loose as you must be strong for your own family. Be nice and pleasant. If she asks what is wrong then you tell her flat out -- "I can't reason with you and you won't listen to me." Have someone else take the bull.

Sometimes you just have to let go. I think you did the right thing.

I do find funny that she accused you of being selfish when that's exactly what she's doing. She's a grown woman it's her mistake to make. Time for you focus on your family.

Good luck to you.

You have done all that you are required to do which is let her know honestly where you stand. If you are a praying person, pray for her and her children and leave the door open for future friendship.

There is something wrong if she feels like she has to lie to you or anyone else about her relationship or interaction with this person.

As a Mom and a wife your bag is full. This is not your Rock, put it down and continue on your journey!!!

If you think about it for a minute, you bear some responsibility for your friend lying to you. You're probably not aware of it, but you do. Of course she's sneaking around ~ she doesn't want to hear "I told you so" from you ( and other well-intentioned people) one more time! Giving advice is meddling, not being a friend. Friends support each other with an "I'm so sorry, I know you are hurting" not with a "You're too good for him." Giving advice is a slippery slope, because if the person follows your advice and is unhappy, you are to blame. If they do not follow it (as in this case), it puts pressure on the friendship.

Friends do not give friends advice. They listen and support. Every time this woman has broken up, you have told her how much you hate the guy, and what a fool she is for seeing him. That is always dangerous, because there is always a chance that people who break up will get back together. You have made it clear that you think she's an idiot for getting back together with him, and she doesn't want to be seen as an idiot (in your eyes), so she lies in the hope of you not finding out.

If you can't stand the guy, it's OK to say so, but make it clear that you respect her right to make her own decisions, even if you don't agree with them. You're treating her like a stupid child, and chastising her for her behavior. She doesn't want you to tell her what to do. She wants you to be there for her. That's what friends do. By giving her the ultimatum, you are making this all about you, whether you realize it or not. If you accept her as she is, and not as you want her to be, your friendship will be much healthier.

Ok, H., ask NO tell your friend that you don't want to hear anything about being with this man and that you love her but can no longer be there for her if she continues to be in his life. It is emotionally hard for you to keep being there for her and she continues do deal with this man. You can not help who you fall in love with, I know it is hard for her, but I would no longer listen to her when it comes to this man. ONE day she will wake up and realize that he is no good for her and enough is enough. You can never tell someone to leave someone. Only listen and be there for her. Don't even make any comments about him tell her you don't want to hear it. If she wants to be in a no end relationship she's gonna have to deal with that on her own. PERIOD. Don't get caught up in her lies and emotions. Shes a big girl and needs to handle this on her own. Sometimes you have to step back and let people handle their own problems.

Friends come into your life for a day, a month, a year. You can't tell how long of a season you will have with someone as your friend. The old saying if you love something let it go, if it comes back it's yours. Friendship is like that. Let her do what she wants and if she really values your friendship she will be there.

H.-
you ahve made your points to her. You have given her all the support that is possible. She continues to go backwards. You cannot help her anylonger. Let her go- COMPLETELY- and after she learns the hard way- which apparently is the way she must do things- then she will come back to you apologizing- and showing you the ways in which she has changed. Then you can analize things to see if she is an addition to your life- or still is an emotional vampire.

You cannot sacrifice yourself for her- and have a family depend on you. Take care of you and yours. They deserve all of you, plus, you will not forgive yourself for giving them less than 100% of yourself. Trust me- in time- things will come back around, if they are supposed to. Whatever should happen- WILL happen. And just let her be- she has to learn- without you.

All will be fine.

God Bless!

A.

Unfortunately, there comes a time that there's nothing more you can do. And if it means that you and your friend are drifting apart then sadly that is what will happen. Unless you've been there you can't possibly understand her on this issue. I was in a toxic marriage myself for about 7 years. I didn't lie to people about seeing him. I fought to keep him. My whole family hated him, I wouldn't see them hardly at all because of it. We just stayed away. I lost friends, many of which I still don't talk to even though we are now divorced. He was a control freak. He told me where I could and couldn't go, who I could and couldn't talk to, what I could and couldn't wear, etc. We'd fight and make up and fight and make up. It was never ending. One day we fought and he threatened to leave. I usually would start crying at that point, this time I told him I'd had enough and to take his stuff with him. Filed for a dissolution shortly afterwards. She realizes he's bad for her. She just loves him and can't help but go back to him. Some day she'll get fed up hopefully. There's nothing you can do before that happens because no matter what you tell her, she's not ready to hear it. When the "dust settles" I hope your friendship will remain because she's really going to need you. I wouldn't have made it thru my seperation and dissolution without my closest friends!! They were my lifeline in a very bad storm!!!! There's hope for her really. It is just a case of when and if you are willing to hold out for it. Can understand though if you can't. It's tough, the spot you're in. But only you can make that decision in the long run. Good luck.

Dear H.,
It is time for you to disassociate yourself from this toxic relationship!!!!!! If you do not take care of yourself you are NOT going to be able to care for those who are the important ones.....and it is NOT her!!!!
How much longer are you going to subject yourself to the NEGATIVE impact that she is having and has had on you.
YOUR FAMILY and your mental health MUST come first, so cut the ties immediately and do NOT be tempted to fall back into an unhealthy relationship.
I am talking to you about the very thing that you have been trying to impress on this woman.....think about it.
NO ONE can take care of you but yourself!

"men who hate woman! woman who love them!" written by dr susan forward.go get it!!! read it!!! all of it then give it to your friend.stop enabling her to continue this.it can get her killed take it from a domestic violence survivor!!i mean it!!! read it all no matter how boring it may seem.also rent the movie fireproof soon invite all friends over to watch it together!!!please write me after you do this and let me know the results from these two simple things!! please do this you may be able to prevent your friend from becoming a statistic.it may also help in your relations even if you feel you have the perfect relation

Dear H.,

I am sorry that you are going through this because it hurts to have a friendship decompose! You know deep down that you've outgrown this friendship. You are emotionally healthier than your friend and it just doesn't work anymore. Cut it loose and allow yourself to be sad BUT leave yourself open to find a new healthier friend. She's out there...somewhere.

I hate to hear about the toxic relationship your friend has with that "man" (I say that loosly of course.) However, she has made the choice once again to see him so she will have to deal with the consequences. You, by no means, are obligated to pick up the pieces. Being loyal is a wonderful quality; putting a toll on yourself and family because of her is another ball of wax.

There is a time and place for people in all of our lives. People come and go all the time. Letting the friendship go for a while may be the best thing for both of you. It will be hard at first. But not having to deal with HER stress will work wonders on your life

Sorry girl. I agree with the others. This woman is toxic to you and herself. Let the emotional vampire go. I feel sorry that this woman keeps going back to that guy, but her problems are putting too much of a drain on you for too long now. I rec'd an e-mail the other day that says alot. It's about the one thing wrong with women... We're so busy taking care of everyone else, we forget to/don't make time to take care of ourselves. Take care of yourself so that you can take care of your family.

You didn't mention the reasons they break up and get back together again, but one thing is obvious....she must like it, or she wouldn't keep going back for more. In a case like hers, only she will know what the last straw is, and there is nothing much you can do for her, other than be a friend to her. You say that you have nothing to talk about now....what did you talk about before this man came into the picture? Focus on those things instead of her toxic relationships. Let her know how you feel in a matter of fact way when she wants to talk about him that you have been down that road with her before, you have nothing more to say on the subject, and let it go at that. A woman that keeps returning to an abusive man, younger or not, has bigger issues than she realizes. I hope she finds and keeps a stable relationship, and you are able to remain friends.

You can give advice to your friend about her relationships, but she doesn't have to take it. Only she can figure this out for herself. If the friendship is too draining for you, then maybe you should distance yourself for awhile but don't completely rule her out as a friend. I would bet she is only lying to you because she wants to be friends without causing you worry and she values your approval. She obviously doesn't feel comfortable talking to you about her relationship issues concerning that guy, and you obviously don't want to listen to it. Still, you cannot tell her how to live her life.

My personal opinion is that a friend should be there for better or worse. Even if you don't approve, you can listen. If she doesn't percieve that you are there to listen, then she will likely continue lying to you. Lying is easier than dealing with your reaction and possibly losing you as a friend right then.

I was in the exact same situation before. I would be there for her every time her and her boyfriend would break up, then they would get back together and I'd see her when she had the chance. After a while I just couldn't take it anymore. I was tired of giving and giving and her taking and taking. I had my own life to live. I told her that she couldn't use me anymore and I walked away. Then just recently (5 years later) she called me out of the blue. She wants to be friends again but I can never trust her again. Once that trust is lost, which it sounds like it is for you, what do you have left? What kind of friendship do you have if you can't trust the other. It sounds like you feel obligated to be there for her. That's not a friendship. It's ideal to be there for your friends no matter what, but a true friend wouldn't be behaving the way she is. I personally would walk away. Even if she does finally leave this guy for good, the lies have started. She'll lie with the next loser she dates, and there will be another.
Good luck!!!

Hi H.,

Your friend isnt listening to reason. If she is lying to you about her relationship, it already says that she knows where you stand. So if she is lying the best thing you could do is tell her since she can't be truthful, that your friendship has severe cracks in it and as she already knows or she wouldn't be lying. You know and even your friend knows it will happen again. She will drag you through the mud with her again and because you care about her you will go emotionally there with your friend trying to pick her up again. It a wonder you lasted this long. You have been a very good friend, a faithful friend. She is the one that is shutting the door.
Be truthful where she can't, that it tears you up inside because you have worried for her in the past over and over again that your friendship is no longer healthy for you as her realationship is not healthy for her and tell her that you only endured the friendship for so long because you loved her, but now you have to think about your own happiness, because she is destroying a friendship over an unhealthy relationship she cant be truthful with you about. Wish all the happiness you can give her tell her that you still love her and probably always will, but it is too painful for you, as a close friend You can no longer watch her distroy herself emotionally any more.
Then you can grieve the loss of a friend because you did love her and it is a loss. It will get better for you and your strength will get you through. After all that is why she kept coming to you. Just know there are plenty of women that would cherish your friendship, I know I would.

Barb A.

Ugh...sometimes you just wanna bonk a girl in the head to wake her up. I think she has been lucky to have had you for a friend as long as she has. She obviously is choosing the wrong guy over anything else. She is willing to sneak around and lie and cheat to be with him, and you won't be able to talk sense into her, so why try. Let her make her bad choices without you. If she tries to involve you, just say that you have no time for her drama and leave it at that. Unfortunately, she will fall again and will probably be wanting to cry on your shoulder again so you will have to stay strong.

People drift into our lives, are very close friends, then for a variety of reasons drift out of our lives. She was important in your life for a period of time, you were the best friend you could be to her, now she is drifting out. Let her go, there a lot of people our there who need friends. It is time to move on to find other people who life styles are more in tune with your life style, morals and ethics. If she is lying to you about anything she is not friend.

she is using you
Do what you need to keep you and your family happy and healthy. Don't waste your time on someone who has already made up her mind to do as she pleases.
My guess is that she is not that mature either or she would not want to be in the middle of all this drama.
Find a new friend.

You are already doing it! Walking away and closing the door to a friendship that once was. The hard part is knowing that your friend has chosen to allow this man to manipulate her and hurt her. The best part is now you have chosen NOT to be an enabler. As hard as it is on your part - you made a wise choice. Now she has to endure the journey as she has closed the doors on her friends!

Your "Friend" sounds like one of those people who needs DRAMA all the time in her life. I would just forget about her and let her work it out herself . Or you could suggest that she get counciling to figure out why she continues to go back to a man that is no good for her.Some woman don't understand when the are treated well by a man because they grew up with people yelling and fighting all of the time.Myself I listen to it for years before my parents finally seperated. I refuse to fight and argue with any one. I told my last boy friend that If he wanted someone he could fight and argue with then he picked the wrong lady.

This is going to seem harsh, but it sounds like you need to dump her. You have your health and family to put first. You've given enough in this relationship. If I were you, I would tell her, FIRMLY, that she is more than welcome to call you when she has dumped that guy permanently, but until she does, you don't want to hear from her. Good luck!