Four Year Old Daughter

Autisim??
That was my first thought as I was reading this. Contact Headstart to have her tested. You can also get a lot of valuable information from The Easter Seals Society and autisimspeaks.org.

It sounds to me like everything is complicated by her exhaustion. There is no way a child her age can function on so little sleep. She's not herself.

Secondly, I find it unusual that she would say things like "you're ruining my life" - where in the world did she hear a phrase like that? "I hate you" is common but she's picked up the other one somewhere. Maybe TV or someone else? The tantrums are not unusual but it sounds like the frequency and duration are excessive.

When you say you've tried spanking, taking away toys, and taking away TV, I assume you have not gone from one to the other in rapid succession. Still, there can be confusion in her mind. There must be consistency. It's interesting that others can calm her down but you cannot. So I do think some family counseling would be in order to establish some consistency from one caregiver (grandparent, uncle) to the next. It may be that the others are a step removed and so the "distractor factor" is at play. But counseling can give you some insight and some neutral guidance, and I would think it would be a huge help and source of support to you.

The biting and hitting herself is not a positive thing, and I would suggest you not do any spanking at all. Regardless of the various opinions on spanking, since she is willing to hurt herself with her frustration and anger, I wouldn't think that someone else hurting her would be a good technique.

All you are doing is crying - so get some help and support. She knows you are a mess over this, even if you think you are hiding the crying. So you are both at a loss right now. You need to get both of you back on a positive path. Some kids are way more challenging than others, but I see a child in pain and a mom in pain, and those are red flags saying "reach out for some expert help." Good luck to you!

Sorry to hear you are having such a rough time :( I'm sure you just want to be able to enjoy your little girl and not be afraid of setting her off. Sounds like there are a few things going on.

First off...sleep! Kids her age need 10 or so consecutive hours of sleep a night. I'm sure this absolutely leads to behavioral issues. It's going to take lots of time to establish healthy sleep habits...this is something that kids have to learn...not something they will grow out of. Check out babysleepsite.com. They do one on one consultations and are so nice and helpful...it will seriously be the best decision you ever make!

Secondly, I don't think a 4 year old really knows what it means to hate themselves. I'm sure she's upset over whatever it is and just doesn't know how to handle disappointment. In this a counselor might be able to help. Although I think most beneficial would be BOTH of you going to family counseling or parenting classes. You need to have a game plan so you can be consistent in your consequences, know how to react to her tantrums, and learn to be in control. I'm not trying to pick on you or make you feel bad because I definitely don't have all the answers either. But I do think there is a problem and don't think it's going to go away...but probably get worse if not nipped in the butt.

Hang in there and know that if you are willing to put the effort in and seek out the appropriate help that you WILL see a positive change...and be able to have the loving relationship with your daughter that you both deserve!

yeah...she's not going to grow out of it.

first, taking tv away from a 4 year old will, as you have found, have zero impact.

S., the fact that your dad or bil can control her but you can't, speaks volumes.

you have a HUGE amount of work ahead of you. i don't feel like you have any real concept of the needs of a small child. where is she hearing phrases like "i hate you" or "you are ruining my life"???? no 4 year old comes up with that on her own. she is hearing this from somewhere.

it's like you don't realize this is a precious little miracle you have been given. treat her as such. learn how to deal with her (google, read books, ask lots and lots of questions on here) on HER level. these tantrums began, and they weren't dealt with. then she realized that doing things like hurting herself, got really big reactions, so she started doing that, and rather than dealing with THAT, it was allowed to spiral out of control.

to me, she doesn't need counseling. she needs her mom to step up, get educated about early childhood development, and do a better job.

that isn't meant to blast you. just make you aware. you are on here, asking questions, which is great. look back through past questions on here. ask specific questions as they come up and the moms on here are GREAT about answering. the tantrums, i don't have advice for you because after the first couple, we didn't see them progress like you're describing. but i guarantee you there are moms on here who have, and they'll give you some good advice. hang in there. she's only 4, that's the good news. but yes, you have a LOT of work to do. parenting isn't for sissies and being lazy won't cut it. you can do it.

My son at that age acted similar to your child. I was at my witts end. My pediatrician suggested I have him tested at the public school (age 3)....his speech was delayed and he was acting out because he could not get his thoughts into words. I was lucky because the public school had a "special ed" program for kids his age. He was a handful for a long time...the school not only helped him but helped me as well. It took a while and a lot of patience but with the help of his teachers, we were able to overcome his issues. He graduated from High School this year, I sent his teachers from "special ed" a graduation announcement and a thank you note...we could not have done it without them.
Good luck and my prayers are with you!

I had to add on to my answer....if her behavior started at such a young age, I truly do not think it's a parenting issue. A baby should not be trying to hurt herself. This all points to a medical issue. However, for now, rather than focusing on discipline for her, I would reward her for good behavior only. Get her a calendar or chart and help her complete small tasks and then reward her with stickers or small dollar store toys after she gets so many points for good behavior. My daughter responded very well, once the focus was on positive reinforcement rather than taking toys away or other discipline. Forget about the time outs for now and only focus on encouraging positive behavior until you get her to the doctor. If she does something wrong, get down on her level and ask her why she did it and tell her gently that "we do not hit others" or whatever is appropriate. Fight for her on the sleep issues. Tell them you want to see an Ear Nose Throat doc and get a sleep study. Don't let them medicate her until you do all of that first.

Original message:
If she's not sleeping, it could all stem from being tired. My daughter had a complete turn around when she was diagnosed with sleep apnea and was treated. Have her checked by a doctor for large tonsils or other symptoms. Does she snore when she sleeps? It's not always a symptom, but sometimes they might snore or having heavy breathing. My daughter hardly snored, only minimally, but she still had it.

If it's not from being tired, it really could be diet or other medical issues. I would start there. I know how hard it is. Please get the help you need for her and yourself. After seeing a medical doctor, they can point you to a behavioral therapist who can work with her to learn coping skills and try to help with her routine or other things at home. There are lots of options, so don't give up.

Yep, it's off to counseling where you might get some info on parenting classes. You need help. She is a strong willed child and you are not stepping up to the plate consistantly. This is very hard on both of you.

You have a library and there are good parenting books out there like Love and Logic. But you have to read and implement the Things they teach.
Others in your family mean well but don't have the wisdom you need. You need to be the one in charge. You are the one she needs to see as the one who loves herAND guides her. Parenting is hard work. Try to find good role models. Your school system may have parenting classes. Try looking on their website.
Good luck

I agree with what the other posters have said. But, it's not your 4 yo that needs counseling, it's you. She is getting her behavior as a result of how you are parenting her. You need some strong guidance on how to raise a strong-willed child - and you need to learn how to be the level-headed, calm, rational, reliable, consistent and structured guide in her life. Family counseling for the both of you is in order, especially you. Please seek the help now before it gets really out of control, and there is no turning back. A pre-teen or teenager with this type of temperment will ruin their live.

Seek help for you and your child.

I'm sorry others are "piling on" here.
I know O. thing for sure.
At 3,4,5 kids REALLY need consistency.
Is she getting that?
Are you consistent about what is a d what is not allowed?
Because they really ARE looking for rules and boundaries at that age.
Sounds simplistic, but could you try writing HOUSE RULES, posting them in the kitchen, and reviewing them with her two or three times per day?
And list the consequence for breaking a rule. (Time out, loss of fave activity or toy for the day) then enforce consistently EVERY time.
Easier said than done, and I'm sure there will be fits, but stay the course.
Good luck!

I just happened to read an article today about food allergies and childhood behavior. Because of the similarity between the descriptions of your daughter and the one in the article, I will pass this on to you:
http://www.anchoragepress.com/news/the-gluten-made-her-do...

I hope you find a solution!

This sounds like a situation in which a professional evaluation would be very helpful. I know it may seem like a hard step to take, like it would be admitting there might be something wrong with your daughter. Don't look at it that way. Think of a therapist as a person with some wonderful ideas that will help both of you find a better way of dealing with the frustrations of daily life. Yes, she will probably grow out of it. But you should do everything you can to encourage that growth and a good family therapist or child psychologist is an excellent idea. (I speak from experience. I will be forever grateful to my daughter's therapist for helping her become the amazing, balanced and happy 12-year-old she is today. The woman was a godsend).

My four year old has recently lost her father (meaning he will no loger be in her life) and has been acting out.
I see it as mostly attention seeking behavior. Where I live the counseling for children this age is considered "toddler counseling". It works a lot different than traditional counseling and she can even have up to 3 home visits per week after her initial screening.
This would be benificial for you both. Ours is through our local county. You just call them and tell them all of the behaviors your child is displaying in order to qualify. Check and see whats avail in your area. I dont know about you, but I'd like to nip some of the things shes saying in the bud before she starts school.

You have a lot on your plate, K.. If I were you, I'd start by talking to your ped (not in front of her) and asking for a consultation with a play therapist. The play therapist will come to your house and observe. If there is something specific that you know will cause a meltdown, I'd let that happen in front of the play therapist so that she sees how things go.

You also need help learning how to deal with her so that you don't cry in front of her. It gives her two things when you let her see you "sweat", so to speak. It gives her a feeling of control over you, and it gives her a feeling of LACK of control in her life. Sounds strange, maybe, but it's true. Children want limits. (They don't act like it, but that's beside the point.) If you are inconsistent, they don't understand and they will try everything to get what they want. If you keep changing the rules on them, they will keep acting out.

Your play therapist will tell you and the doctor what kind of help you need. When you get some help, it will include ways to deal with her that will help you be consistent and help you cope with her behavior. And that will help her too.

I don't believe for a moment that she will outgrow this. She knows she has you over a barrell and you have to change these dynamics.

Sending you strength~
Dawn

I hope you didn't put her in time out at 9 months! I think you are being very reactive to her instead of guiding and supporting her. She sounds like she feels out of control and needs help on how to be in control. First off, the sleep issues. It is not unusual to wake up at night for your children. Put her in your bed. That may help her control her anger as she sounds very sleep deprived. When she is having tantrums, instead of ignoring her or punishing her, sit with her, hold her tight and see if she calms down. Do not try to reason with her when she is having a tantrum. Also be clear about your expectations and punishment should be immediate. NO spanking. I wonder where she is getting that she hates herself, ect. Have everyone watch their language. I think you might need to get some help if this doesn't work. Hope it gets better.

Wow, well I can see why you've turned to Mamapedia with this question. I hope you've been reading responses for a while since you can glean a lot of useful info just by reading other people's questions.

I also find it very odd that she is using those phrases at 4 years old. Does she have older siblings that she hears these things from? My daughter is 5 and would never in a million years think to say those things to me unless she's heard them on TV or from another child. Hopefully your 4 y/o isn't watching shows with older kids who talk like that.

Her tantrums are going to get worse until you decide to make a change in your parenting. You need to consult her pediatrician and find parenting classes in your area.