Five Year Old Thief, HELP!

Has anyone taken things from her, maybe she does not know it feels yet. She should also be made to give it back plus more. This will make an impression on her if done in front of others. Been there. Good luck this one can be hard to deal with.

This reminded me of when I was about 4 years old, I stole a piece of candy at the grocery store, as we were standing in line my mom noticed me eating something, she ask what it was and I told her candy which led to where did I get it from. When she found out I stole it she lifted me up unto the counter and made me tell the cashier what I had done and made me apoligize for stealing it. The embarresment of this kept me from ever doing it again. Maybe if you could find out who or where she stole the lipgloss from you could make her take it back and explain that she stole it, I don't think it would work if you took it back and explained she needs to apoligize and take it back if this is possible. It worked for me. Good luck

I will tell you what worked for me.. When I was 6 or 7, my mom was shopping for my school clothes at the mall (at Sears or something).. anyway, she wouldn't let me have a grape-smell eraser- we were just buying clothes and that was it.. Anyway, she found out I stole it the day after, and drove me back to the mall and found a manager and made me admit that I stole it and I was to apologize... Looking back, at an eraser that costs less than $1, I'm sure all of the adults were chuckling.. but it taught me a great lesson and I never stole again.

I hate to admit it, but I would do things like that when I was in first grade. I can't say why I'd do it. I once took a cross necklace from my teacher and lied as to where I got it and my Mom had the Priest bless it. I'm 44 and still remember that! Ha!

However, a few times of being caught, Mom making me bring things back that I took and staying on me for how serious it was, I finally got a conscience about it. Lying, cheating and stealing do go hand in hand, so you might just need to keep a close eye on her and if you don't catch her, pray that someone else will.

The best thing my Mom did was to catch me in even the most innocent things. My brother and I once got free toys out of a quarter machine as we figured out it was broken. We left the store in glee and our coat pockets filled with trinkets. Mom marched us right back in and made us give it all back to the manager. She, herself would never take a penny more in change and she'd point it out to me when she did the right thing (blatantly teaching me).

Children her age do not fully get WHY its wrong and it takes constant training. I don't know why I had the need to steal in first grade. I think as she grows up a bit more she'll grasp why and get over it. If she were an older kid, I would not say the same thing.

My 4 year old stole a pair of pink swim goggles she wanted. I told her I wasn't buying them, so she hid them in the bottom of the cart underneath some other bags (we were at the mall). I got all the way to the car and found them when I was putting my bags into the car. Believe me, it was very inconvenient and embarrassing to take her back to the store and return the goggles. I didn't think it made an impression on her at all, because the clerk said it's ok and gave her some stickers! Anyways, a few months later she mentioned that she had to take them back because she stole them (a totally random moment). So I guess sometimes they get it, even if you think they are not listening. Make her give the books away to a charity, since you can't take them back. There are plenty of children's shelters that would be happy for them. Letting her see you give them away is important. Good luck!

You are not a bad mother. Take a breath. She is testing you and herself. You can nip this in the bud.

I agree about her having to return the things she took and apologize. I also think those books should be given to charity. Your choice. It was your money.

Also speak with her Teacher and school Principal. Explain what has been going on and then the 3 of you should meet with your daughter to explain that this behavior will not be tolerated. I think stealing in school is grounds for in school suspension. Maybe she should miss a few days on the playground (recess). She could sit in the school office instead?

Is she a pleaser? My mother used to use shame and responsibility with us. She would say, "I will always love you no matter what you do." "But I will be very disappointed and hurt if you do not follow the rules." She used to also say "Do not get into trouble because imagine what Grandma would feel like if she had to go to the police station or court and everybody would see her grandchild was in trouble?"
Worked for all of us. Kept my hands to myself and kept my nose clean. Grandma is just too important.

Hi M.-

First of all I would say if she is stealing from someone outside of the household she needs to personally return the item, apologize and if appropriate maybe give one of her favorite things to the victim to make up for it. Of course you can do this if it's from someone within the household too, but it seems to be more embarassing and bigger deal when it's someone else. And of course there should be whatever consequences you currently use (early bedtime, take away favorite toy, etc.)

My other suggestion is to start stealing from her to show her how the victim feels. I would say go into her room when she's not around and take her favorite doll or something special that you know she is going to look for. Then when she is upset that she can't find it, either just tell her that you took it because you wanted it or just let her find you playing with it later.

The other thing that you should start doing is teaching her that things cost money if you haven't already. It's possible that when she goes shopping with you, she sees you just pick up anything you want and put it in the cart and walk out with it. She may not realize what you're doing when you're paying at the register. Maybe start explaining this to her and even let her pay for something sometime so she starts to understand.

Good Luck!
K.

Dear M. B,

My biggest advice to you is to take it a lot easier than you are about this. Barry Braezelton, who you probably know is an MD and a Psychiatrist specializing in children, takes a wonderful position on these kind of very alarming (to parents) issues in kids of this age. It's really important to know that they don't see things the same way we do -- she is not in any way showing early "criminal tendencies" by seeing whether she can get away with fishing money out of your purse to buy goodies., because she is only just beginning to figure out what money IS. Obviously this behavior needs to be extinguished, as I think the professionals say, but seeing it as a HORRENDOUS reflection of your mothering and seeing her as a future criminal will actually make the behavior more attractive while also making you and your daughter feel terrible.

Lots of kids experiment in this way -- your first one just didn't happen to. However you choose to create consequences (both Love and Logic and 1,2,3, Magic have good ideas), the key is to state what they are and then to impose them in a calm way. If this is a way to get you to turn red, jump up and down and scream and then walk around for two days clutching your chest and muttering darkly to herself, she, as a very new visitor to this planet, is going to be COMPLETELY FASCINATED by this aspect of money, and she will be sure to undertake more experiments to find out more about this amazing stuff called money that can create such HUGE responses in the most powerful people in her life. On the other hand, if she discovers that if she should ever spend money that wasn't hers to spend she has to either return the item she bought, with apologies to the inconvenienced salesperson or, if the item is unreturnable because eaten or otherwise not acceptable for a return, she needs to repay the money. We give our six year old a one dollar a week allowance that comes in handy for precisely such purposes. I am absent-minded about paying her every week, which is one of my great weaknesses, so the other week we figured out I owed her eight dollars. The next day she came home after having stepped on a school reading book and damaged it, and the teacher and I agreed that she needed to replace the copy -- lucky we happened to have that eight dollars in the kitty! It cost six dollars to replace, and she got two to spend as she wished.

Money and possessions, like food and body image, are very difficult to get right in our society, and in fact I figure if we do it "good enough" to wind up with a kid who doesn't become bulemic, anorexic, or a compulsive debtor, hoarder, or spender, that we will have been insanely lucky. But i figure society already tells her that money is important, important, important and that my job is to add a note of sanity -- that money is important to keep track of and be clear about, but that if we keep track of it and think about it, there's no need to do a lot of feeling about it.

all best wishes!!!!
M.

Dear M. B,

It just sounds like your 5-year old need some "extra" (daily, or as often as it turns out to be necessary) discussions about the Values of Truth and Honesty.

For Truth, tell her frequently that we are not supposed to tell things that are untrue. You can use examples from TV shows or books to illustrate the harm in lying. Teach her that lies hurt both the people that the untruth is told about and that lies also hurt her. Seize every moment to explain to her, using real examples from her experiences, HOW her lies have hurt others. The effects could range from costing them extra time or money to set the record straight, to costing them friendships with other people, to making someone get a bad grade, to causing an animal to go hungry (i.e. saying she fed the pet when she did not) and even to hurting both her dad's and your feelings. Whatever the "impact" of her lies -- make sure she knows how HURTFUL and DANGEROUS they can be. Lying about some things may place her in situations of danger (especially as she grows a little older), such as lying about having conversations with someone on the Internet that you do not know, or if she is experiencing unwanted sexual advances from a classmate, family member or casual friend. Of course, the affects of telling lies on her will include things like having to "hide" the real story, making her "heart" feel unhappy, and making situations worse by feeling she has to lie even MORE to cover up earlier lies. Be sure that she knows that she can lose friends by lying - or might even never make the "good friends" that she would like to have if she continues to lie. This behavior is not something people want to be close to.

The same as above is true for Honesty. Explain how theft hurts others and how it hurts her - only the examples will change.

Your concern over this issue seems like you know the following, but you, her dad, and others in the family should always PRACTICE what you teach. Be sure that you are not lying or taking something that does not belong to you, or telling half-truths or committing any other compromise of your Values in front of her and the other children. There are no "white lies" or other shades of gray, when teaching ethics and integrity. Just be sure that she is not modeling some "mixed-up" version of a behavior that she has observed at home.

From the sound of it, you will probably need to secure "reinforcements" to teach her values, if she grasping multiple opportunities to lie and steal repeatedly at this young age. I suggest getting the whole family to attend a church regularly. This way, she will hear these same Value-based encouragements from other leaders and teachers. They will simply reinforce what you and her dad teach her. Teaching children at a young age to read the Bible and pray will equip them with resources for successful (eternal) living.

As a Christian, I believe it is appropriate for children to also know that lying hurts God's "heart" and makes us feel like He can't love us totally (He does, but we don't "feel" worthy.) Consequently, the problem (a lie, theft, etc.) keeps us "separate" from experiencing His full blessings. At some point your little ones will be old enough to know that not one of us can earn God's favor - but that He loves us anyway. He has given each of us forgiveness for ALL of our sins, including lying and stealing, by giving us Jesus' sacrifice as a "gift" of Love. Once we believe in Jesus, God sees us just as sinless and spotless as he does Jesus Himself. The only action we, individually, must take is to believe this is true, just as God states in His Word.

Lying is a vicious and hurtful vortex and she needs help NOW to stop the pattern. If there is some pathological reason (and this would be VERY rare) then you might have to see a good psychological counselor to help her get things straightened out. I have the name of a wonderful Christian counselor in San Antonio. Perhaps she could recommend someone in your area. Email me if you would like to have her contact info.

God Bless you all,
K.

James 3:5 - "So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!"

Luke 18:20 - "You know the commandments, 'DO NOT COMMIT ADULTERY, DO NOT MURDER, DO NOT STEAL, DO NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS, HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER.'"

2 Corinthians 5:17, 19, 21 - "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come...God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation...He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

I am so glad you are trying to put a stop to this. If you know she stole something take it away from her. If she takes something from a store take it back with her and appoligize to the clerk. I know a little girl that was allowed to steal from the time she could grab it. She is now eight and I dread when she comes over because I have to watch her like a hawk. I don't know if you are any kind of religion but the " Thou shall not steal" is a good lesson to be learned now. Consistant time outs. For months in a row time out every time she steals. If thats not working may I suggest you take away some of her favorite toys...perhaps even sneaking them and telling her some other little girl wanted it and stole it from you. A day or a few hours later after she is really freaked out that some one stole from her tell her you have her toy and she shouldnt steal. This worked for a different situation with a kid sneaking off and her mom not knowing where she was. I explained to her that mom gets scared and worried when she dosent know where she is just like she did when she lost her mom in the store and couldnt find her. It worked for that situation. Best of luck and dont give up this is an improtant one to teach your kids to be kind to other people.

I remember quite vividly doing this as a child and my mom made me and my sister take the item back to the store, tell them what we had done and either pay for it or return it. It had to come out of our allowance. I remember the embarrassment and did not do it again!

Good luck!

My little one hasn't reached this point yet, but when I was five I stole gum that my mother would not purchase for me. She took me back to the store and and made me give the item to the manager and apologize. I never stole another thing. Hopefully that will be helpful for you.

Don't be so hard on yourself! Our kids have to make and learn form their own mistakes, and no matter how diligent the parent, kids still make bad choices sometimes. I've read that when kids steal it is about lack of self control at their age, and that most kids get more self control with maturity. Perhaps your daughter needs an opportunity to earn and spend her own money. Or maybe encourage your husband to take her to work with him, or take her to class with you, to help her learn how hard you both work for what you have. I don't think the solution is simply a matter of consequence for her actions, but rather changing her need for instant gratification (which we all have, right?!?). "Things" will mean more to her if she earns them. Don't panic - I really don't think you need to worry about her ending up in the "big house." ha!

She's the middle child just one year older than the baby. Plus, she has an older sister who is getting to the age that she likes to, in many cases, be the "older, wiser, Lord and Master". Does the older one taunt her. Is she trying to measure up to her older sister but can't? Stealing is a way of getting attention. You probably spent a lot of time with the younger one and unintentionally neglected the middle one. Give her some special attention, just you and her without the other two. If your husband is so great, he'll be glad to watch the others for you and then he can spend some quality time with her himself. If that doesn't work, then see a child specialist, but I'll bet just the extra attention will work. Lots of children this age try taking things.

Everytime you discover that your daughter has taken something that belongs to someone else, you should remove the most favored belonging she has and tell her that EVERYTIME you discover that she has stolen, she will lose another of her belongings. Make her know that she WILL NOT get these items back until she has regained your trust in her. Tell her that she will be very unpopular as her peers begin learning that she steals and she will soon have no friends since other kiddos will tell each other about her and no one will trust her. My son did that as a child. He used the word 'traded' when he came home with another childs belongings, and when he 'traded' a $3 notebook for another childs bike, I put a stop to it quickly. He returned the other childs 'bike' and lost his treasured 'guitar' back to mom. I told him he would not get the guitar back for 6 months or until that period of time went by with no more 'trading' which I explained to him was stealing. He lost a couple more 'treasured items' and it was 9 months before I allowed him to touch his guitar. With the 3rd theft, I totally restricted him from having friends over or going to play at another childs house, alerted the parents of his friends as to what was going on when he regained my trust and TOLD him that I had told his friends parents that he was apt to steal things so that THEY could keep an eye on him too.
If the stealing does not stop before the child is old enough to ramble the neighborhood on her own, she needs counseling and evaluation for OCD. Trust is the most valuable possession you have in this lifetime and if you lose it, it's hard to regain. M. K

Take her back to the store she took the lip gloss from and make her return it...I am sure that will leave a lasting impression! Good luck, I am sure since she is only 5 years old that it is only a phase that she is going through, but you are right in wanting to correct it now.

M. B,

I cannot believe that I'm putting this in writing for people to see, but when I was 8, I was a little klepto. Occasionally, when in a nearly-caught situation, I lied my way out of it. I didn't turn into a career criminal or habitual liar. The lies were simply self preservation. But, after getting caught a few times, getting the "whoopin" and having to face the person from whom I'd stolen, to apologize and return the item, I stopped doing it. Just be consistent, and don't let some thefts go unpunished. Best of luck!

Although it may seem like something terrible, this is actually quite common of children this age. Just like 2 and 3-yr-olds take toys from each other and we don't label it as stealing, children ages 4-6 often still take things from others and it really shouldn't be called "stealing". I know it sounds a little strange, but try roll playing with her. Children this age learn more from roll playing than from lectures. Show her through roll play what is appropriate to do when you want something that you don't have. Try making a poster of the chores she may do to earn money to purchase those things she would like to have. If she doesn't have the means of honestly obtaining the things she would like to have she may continue to dishonestly get the things she wants as she gets older. I wouldn't be overly concerned by this behavior unless it continues when she is around 8-years-old--that's when a child is really old enough to internalize what is right and what is wrong. Just teach her now what's right and she will be just fine. Hope this helps a little--good luck!

You have already received some good advise, I will add one of my sons went through this and after some time of continuing this behavior I did not allow him to have anything that I did not buy him. If he came home with something I assumed he stole it and took it back to school. He learned he couldn't lie his way out of it. He would tell me someone gave it to him, but as we drove to school he would tell me he found it or took it. He got good a hiding his "treasures" so I did frequent backpack checks, not every day, he never knew when I was going to do them. I hated it but found lots of stuff that he shouldn't have. Verify everything. If she sais that she got it at a party at school its easy to just mention to the teacher "that was sure nice that Mary's mom gave all the kids ______" and watch her reaction. Teachers have been through this and will appreciate your working with them. Catching them teaches them not to do this, they don't get away with it, and get punished.

Awwww M. B;
You have a "Middle Child" syndrome!!
Middle children cause the most problems because they feel less loved than their brothers and sisters! It isn't true
but they do feel it. Soooo they do things for attention and love! Even bad things because bad things cause the most attention!
Recently a 60 year old middle child wrote a book about her
father in which she told outright lies just to get attention!
There is a real skill in handling your problem! #1 I believe
in applying proper pressure to the backside, I mean hard enough to make her cry, but, not hard enough to bruise or mark! It's called spanking!
Then with that also is required a lot of special attention, hugs and jobs, by jobs, her helping you do things! In other words showing her you love her! With a middle child, it is
going to take a lot!!
Good Luck,
B. C.

I agree with the other moms who say she doesn't totally understand what she is doing. I think she is more interested in your reaction. You sound busy, 3 kids a hubby and school. That is a lot on your plate, but maybe you and your hubby can find time for a little one on one time with your middle girl. :) Ps> my hubby is a middle child and really doesn't feel like his parents care about him like they do his sisters. I think it is hard to be the middle child.

Call the store she stole from and see if they are willing to make this a great learning lesson. Take her back to the store, have the manager take her aside and make her give back what she took and admit to it. Then that (hopefully big and scary) store manager can explain that by bringing it back she is doing the right thing, but in the future if she steals she is going to have to go with the police and will be in a great deal of trouble.
I did this with a family at my former job (we even had a weekend security guard escort the kid to my office...she was beyond tears, but I'll bet she will never forget it!)
If she steals from you again make her have to pay you back. Talk about trust with her. If she thought you were going to take her stuff every day while she was at school, how would she feel about her relationship with you? Well, that's how you feel (and her brother, etc.) when she takes something from you.
This is a "talk" you are going to have to revisit often, and it's an important one. Good luck!

P. (mom with three boys)

There has to be consequences. She needs to confess to the person from whom she stole, ask forgiveness, and restore what she took. The Bible says that if a man steals a sheep, he must pay back four sheep!
If you know she took something, but will not confess, send her to sit on her bed and think about it, and to not get off her bed until she is ready to confess. Take her meals to her bed.
When she asks forgiveness, she must first say what she did wrong ("I took your lipgloss.") and then ask forgiveness ("Will you forgive me for stealing your lipgloss?") She also must work for money to buy a new lipgloss for that person. If she continues to steal, I would make the consequences bigger, as in having to buy the person two or three or four lipglosses!
Then help her be a giver. Help her earn money so she can give lipgloss to her sister or a friend.

WELL YOU HAVE GOT TO FIND A WAY TO EMBARASSE HER WITH THIS & MAYBE MORE THAN JUST ONCE.LIKE IF SHE DOES PICK UP SOMETHING, TAKE HER BACK IN STORE & MAKE HER GIVE IT BACK & TELL STORE PERSON THAT SHE STOLE IT.
MY COUSIN WENT THRU THIS & IT WORKED FOR THEM AFTER A FEW TIMES & A VERY GOOD PADDLING AFTERWARDS. IT WILL USUALLY EMBARASSE THEM TO MAKE THEM TELL THAT THEY STOLE IT. THE STORE MANAGER THAT MY COUSIN DEALT WITH HELPED HER ALOT BY SHAMING DRU & TELLING HIM IF HE DID THIS WHEN HE GOT OLKDER HE WOULD WIND UP IN JAIL & THAT REALLY SCARED HIM.
HOPE THIS HELPS,
D.

most kids will give up the stealing thing when you talk to them about it. Also she needs to take whatever she takes back to the store and apologize give it back and pay for it. That broke me of it when I was about that age too. My mom had me pay a dime for a piece of candy that was 5 for a penny candy, okay this was the late 60's, but it really upset me that my mom paid a dime for something that was not even a penny by itself. It impressed on me not to do it again. I turned out okay, I've never been in trouble with the law so relax and just have a talk with her also empress apon her the bind it puts you in when you get somewhere to pay for something and the money is not there.

Hi! Maybe now is a good time to start giving allowance? She can earn it- if she does her chores she gets allowance. If she steals something then she can pay for it with her allowance...but can't keep the item. My 5 YO has been asking for things and is frustrated that I give money to charity but don't buy her the things she asks for because we can't afford it.

She also steals. I have to check her before we leave the store. She will put it back...but she will not apologize because she says her sisters put it in her pocket. I want her to pray and ask for forgiveness also but she just won't admit she did anything wrong. It's very embarrassing and frustrating. So I'm thinking of trying the allowance.

S.