Finding a Balance; Gratitude and Lifestyle Improvement

Would he make you wait to buy a new stove or refrig? A new washer/dryer are as essential as a stove or refrig.

As far as a piano goes, look around for a good used one or join freecycle and see if you can get one for free.

You work full time and part time and have the right to have the things you need.

It doesn't sound like it would break you to bu6y a dryer at least. I would insist upon that as a need rather than a want. As for the piano, I can see putting that off until you have the money in hand. It sounds like you need to have a part in the finances too...you do work and contribute. I would insist upon this.

Here's my suggestion. Tell him that you work for a living. You earn a salary. You feel that you have the right to spend some of your salary. And you will be buying a new washer and dryer with your salary now unless he goes to counseling with you.

If he falls apart because you want to spend some of the money you have saved, it means that he has not gotten over his terrible childhood and he is holding YOU hostage over it. This sends out really big warning bells to me, mom. Whose name is all the savings in? Is it in his? In joint name? Who is to say that he wouldn't up and empty all the savings accounts one day and disappear with it? He values money SO much that he treats you like this.

You need to open a bank account in your own name, one that is not associated with the family accounts. You need to put YOUR savings in that account. You also need to stand tall in that you get to make some of the financial decisions that regard you and YOUR retirement and YOUR child. Not just his retirement and his child.

If you don't stand up for yourself now, you're going to wake up one day and he will have cleaned you out. What will you have to show for all your hard work then?

Sorry if this sounds harsh. I really believe you need to do this.

Dawn

Sorry to say it, but I think your husband is cheap and controlling, and he is using the fact that he had to "pull himself up by his bootstraps," so to speak, and you grew up in relative wealth, against you, by insinuating that you are spoiled, and so keeping you in line. And I say this as a relatively frugal person who barely spends anything on day to day maintenance and luxuries or activities, although I allow myself a few things here and there.

I don't know how you resolve this, since you have allowed your husband to dictate your finances up until now. Unfortunately, this pattern is hard to change without a big fight, if at all.

It is absolutely not unreasonable to have a new washer/dryer if your old ones are antiquated, and a $50 a month piano is a laudable use of money (although could you buy a keyboard)? These things I think are reasonable, however, you said you "always" find things you want to spend money on. Is that true? What kind of things are they? If you "always" spend money, then maybe your husband has a point. But everything else you wrote makes it sound like you don't spend money.

And I too, have rarely had a b-day or anniversary gift, because I didn't really care (although that was a bad precedent to set for other reasons). But since he never gets you a freakin' gift, I think you deserve a darn piano.

I haven't read the other responses, but I can't imagine what the solution might be to your overly controlling, miserly husband. Finances are one of the key marital issues.

So I have no real advice, except to tell you that from what you wrote, I think you deserve your dang washer and dryer and your piano, and your husband shouldn't get to dictate where all the money goes, especially since you work full time too.

Good luck.

I think Dawn has some very interesting points - as usual, her answers are well thought out.

I think you and your husband come from such vastly different backgrounds, you haven't really worked out a compromise. He's saving for eventualities, and everything is on a "wait" basis. Wait until we really need it, wait until there's an emergency. You want things NOW because you always had luxuries. However, I see that you are not extravagant and you are not frittering away your money on Starbucks etc. You want a dryer. And yes, chocolate is a necessary health expense!

It would seem that you could meet halfway. There is probably plenty of evidence that an energy-efficient, front loading washer would save electricity and water, which should appeal to your husband's frugality.

I think counseling would help you get on the same page. I think separate accounts can be helpful - each of you has your own account for your own expenses, and then there is a big household account for the joint expenses (mortgage, utilities, food, insurance, kid's clothing, etc.). You should be able to spend money without asking him, although it would be nice if major appliances were agreed upon.

It concerns me that you are considering getting another job - on some level, family time with your child should trump possessions. It also concerns me that you use the term "allowance" for your phone bill. It's kind of like the 1950s when Lucy Ricardo got a household allowance from Ricky, you know?

I think I would pay the nanny for an extra hour and get some couples therapy with your husband, to strengthen your communication, express your individual fears and values, and work out a solution. This situation is going to get more difficult as your child's expenses rise (school or other activities that cost extra, college applications and fees, braces, you name it). I think you and your husband share a lot of love, but not the same values, and you have different fears. Those need to be addressed in a spirit of calm, cooperative sharing.

Let's see, you love your H, he is a saver, you are not a big spender but you need a dryer. This could have been my life 20 yrs ago! We made it through those rough times but we could difinutly disagree on what was a necessity.
We both worked and we saved 1/2 my salary. I did have a hard time getting him to let go unless I really made it clear this was an ultimatum. My dryer or his happiness! You are allowed to have a say in where you spend your money.

Part of the problem is his way of saving. He needs to divvy up the saving into long term and short term. Appliances don't have eternal life and cars break down and there is a pay off to making your spouse happy and not resentful! That's shorter term goals that have a bigger part in life than he understands, especially for you. Maybe Go to Dave Ramsey's site and check out his wisdom.

You can't put a price on everything in life. He can not afford your resentment. Believe me it will come out in unpleasant ways!

On the other hand, we have put one through college and one more to go by saving. He did ask once how I would feel if we had a million at retirement, I said, really mad. Because there were so many things that could have made my life easier! Life is a compromise not a competition! Good luck!

Why does your phone bill have to come out of 'your allowance'??..that is a 'house bill' IMO and should come out of the monthly bill budget NOT your personal allowance!

Move the phone bill over to the house budget and then use the $ you use to use on your phone bill to pay the $50/month to rent the piano.

~I agree about saving up for the washer and dryer IF yours work now...but IF they do NOT work, they should just be replaced. If your husband is such a good planner/budgeter/saver you guys should have a 'unexpected maintenance' fund in place for this sort of expense.

I do not feel you are asking for too much or that you are acting like a spoiled brat. YOU work for your money too. YOU should have an EQUAL say in how the money is spent/saved.

I'm a major major saver too and kind of control our finances. But I'm smart enough to know it's not fair to completely control our finances. My husband works too and unless we were in debt or just squeaking by each month to avoid getting into debt, there's some room to let him have some choices. It sounds like you have really adjusted to his lifestyle and that's commendable. Tell him you have you limits. Maybe set up an account for you. I'd get some books like David Ramsey and see what experts say but this isn't right. Saving half your salary is great and congratulations on that. I wish more people were like that. But there's room for things you really want. Ask him to list these things that make him say you always want more. Make him point out all the things that you've bought that we're frivolous. Maybe there are some but if what you've written is right, he won't have much to point to. If that's the case, enough. You work too. He should not be in full control.

How much, I wonder, is it the TALKING about stuff that is the real problem?

I'm a planner. I'm typically designing in my head a whole YEAR (to 5 years!) "out". It makes me happy. It lets me prioritize and line things up so everything just falls into place. It's EXCITING for me.

It stresses my dad out.

I have about 100-150k worth of work to do on my house. Once Ive done that, it will double its value. So I see the POTENTIAL. Can see what things will look like and how much of an improvement (lifestyle and finances, being able to sell my home for double the put jade price).

But I cannot "talk about" these plans with my dad. Because his mind doesn't work that way. His mind sees me doing my future plans in the present (impossible), and sees the sacrifices needed to do those in the present (again, impossible)... So his brain just comes to a screeching halt.

My mum is just like I am. But, of course, she lives with him. So she works with him on his level. His brain can't do what hers can. Conversely, her brain can't do many of the things his can. So they are gentle with each other. Using the strengths of each (huge trust between the two).

If you currently save 50% of your annual combined incomes... I would suggest talking with your husband about saving 40% in long term savings, and 10% in short term savings. Yep. It means a separate account. But since its still going into savings, that may assuage his fears.

One thing my mum does, with my dad, is she has an imaginary 'cap' on those savings. She never draws the short term savings down lower than 5 grand. Which means she has to be extra patient. But that buffer makes HIM feel happy, and SHE'S happy because she still gets to draw down from it to get things.

I think finding this balance can be very difficult for a lot of people. Hubby and I struggle with it at times, but we are fortunate that he makes a good living, so there is surplus money and I am frugal, and rarely spend money on clothes, my hair, etc. and I would never pay to get my nails done.

I see a washer and dryer as necessary.Have you explained to your hubby how a new set will actually save you in water and gas/electricity costs?

One thing I did was create a budget some years back that gave us "savings" money for household items. Maybe you guys could negotiate a saving plan for things like this. These aren't luxury items, just things you need to maintain a house, like a washer and dryer.

One thought I have: when you ask for these things, maybe he isn't really seeing you as being ungrateful. If he is anything like my hubby, when I ask for things and he feels pushed, what this really means is that he feels like he cannot provide for me. A lot of men want to be good providers, and when we ask for things, it makes them feel like they are failing. So they tend to get defensive and say "why aren't you grateful," even when we are grateful.

Since you work (I'm a SAHM), I would have serious problems with hubby deciding where all the money goes. I would want a 50-50 say in things, and a washer and dryer aren't luxuries, they are necessary!

Not sure about suggests for resolving this. It sounds like you guys need to sit down and create a new budget, one that includes "household" items. While saving is important, there is no point in working if you don't allow yourself breathing room and some luxuries. Life is to be lived.

Money is something every couple fights about at one time or another.
Your husband is very practical about what he makes money wise and what his goals are - a secure retirement and college for the kid(s), emergency money.
He is the Saver of the family and he's not wrong.
He knows the limits of his profession - many teachers live by the skin of their teeth and then augment income by coaching sports and/or tutoring.
You might like a new washer/dryer, but maybe a compromise can be met with getting a new-er set than what you have without them being brand new.
Keep in mind though - a dryer is nice, but the electric bill WILL go up.
Hanging up clothes to dry saves you money and it saves wear and tear on the clothes.
I have neighbors who hang up their laundry outside year round (even if clothes freeze on the line).

It's a fine line to walk between frugal and miser.
You want to make sure the savings are put aside first but THEN the nicer necessities every so often can be had once in a great while.
You can budget and save for those things too - avoid going into debt to get them.

My Mom tells a story about an elderly neighbor she had years ago when she was a young mother.
Mrs Harris lived a very frugal life with her husband.
At his insistence she made her own clothes, bedding, curtains, cooked, baked, canned, grew a garden and they saved every penny they came across.
Her sewing machine was her most important possession - and THAT was a 2nd hand used machine.
Eventually Mr Harris passed away and at that point Mrs Harris discovered that all that scrimping and saving over the years had left her a millionaire.
Well - Mrs Harris went to Paris! - and she lived a completely comfortable existence to the end of her days never having to cook or sew again.

I disagree with Dawn. Starting a bank account of your own will lead to continuing seperateness on other fronts/areas. Just talk to him about your both starting a slush fund TOGETHER for fun things (washer is not in that category, piano is).

I think my husband and I share a similar dynamic to you guys, though switched around. My husband is very driven to work and succeed, he grew up super poor and got himself through college and has a great job. He wants a lot, and once he reaches where he thought he wanted to be, he wants more. Not in a crazy greedy way, just always needs to be reaching for something. I grew up with very predictable stability, and so stability and security are of utmost importance to me. When my husband announces that he wants this or that, or plans to do this or that, it can set me off. It shakes my sense of security, and this discomfort makes me anxious and sometimes snappy.

I wonder if this is what happens with your hubby. He has finally reached a point where he can provide for his family and is where he feels safe and secure. You saying that you want or need something sets of a worry that all the money will go away. It isn't quite logical, but the feeling is very real and very strong.

I don't feel like you guys are very far apart in your thinking, you just need to discuss your perspectives. I do feel like you should have more say over the budget given that you work. But if you can talk and let him know that you'd like to understand how he feels about the money issues, and that you'd like him to understand how you feel, you guys can come to some agreements. I don't know if you quite need counseling yet, but maybe find a book about money and relationships to guide you through the discussion points.

I also have to say how impressed I am with your work ethic. So many people want things but don't want to work for them, this is how people get over-extended. You want perfectly reasonable things, and even take on more work to earn them. I wish more people in this country were like you!

I'm sort of like your husband, and my husband is more like you. We struggle with it. I give my husband an allowance which he uses as he wishes. It keeps the peace. As for the washer and dryer, I gave myself permission to buy new ones only after the washer we had used for 17 years broke and I decided that in the long run it was more cost efficient to relace it then repair it. It was cheaper to buy the washer and dryer as a pair, so I got the dryer too. I would start a washer/dryer fund, but wait until one or the other breaks to replace them. As for the piano, I see peole giving away free piano's all the time on freecycle and kijiji, you only pay the cost of moving and to have it tuned. Watch for one of those.

I would just trying explaining to your husband that wanting a new washer and dryer is more of a necessity than a luxury, as long as you are not wanting some top-of-the-line crazy expensive set - the piano can wait and renting can be good enough for now. I think what you need to think about is if material things are what gives you a better life, or do you improve your life by being more grateful for what you have? How spiritual are you? It doesn't have to be a traditional Christian church/religion - many Eastern religions, such as Buddhism, are helpful, as well as the practice of yoga (not just as exercise, but as a lifestyle).

Can you maybe get your parents to get you the washer and dryer as a Christmas gift?

My first reaction was to see if your parents could spring for the piano. Even the rental of one. If they provided it as a gift for your son, it may be easier for your husband to stomach. The reason is that you talked about enjoying your life more, and it sounds like it would give you so much pleasure to play the piano again (and probably to see your son grow to love music in the house as you did).

My second thought was that if it wasn't feasible for someone to buy/rent the piano, then to try to get that need for music met in other ways - seeing free shows, playing at friend's (or church's or a local school's?) or something that would get that part of who you are back. I appreciate your work ethic, but I wonder if using up your small amount of free time with a second job would really allow you more enjoyment. I would think that you would miss your time with your husband and son, and perhaps even feel a little resentful that you would have to trade in that weekend time for a job that would buy you something that really shouldn't be that hard to budget in. (buying the W/D on 0% financing credit).

The W/D - if it's so bad it doesn't work then it's time to compare time and expenses of a laundromat versus the cost of new (or used). Otherwise I'd put this need behind the piano and air filter.

It is nice that you still feel like you'd rather be in a tent with your husband than anywhere else. I hope you do an update an let us know how it's going.

Best to you,
J.