Etiquette - Ms or Mrs. - or Is It Generational

Do you have to put either one? Could you just address the envelope "Suzie Smith?"

I don't see why you have to put Ms. or Mrs. Just put her name.

ETA - My point is, if you don't use a title she would think nothing of it, "Oh look, someone sent me a card." If you use a title, you introduce the idea of insulting her where one did not previously exist.

I suggest her title is unimportant to her. She's been called various titles over her life. I also suggest that her relationship could have been a marriage because they lived together. In some states they would be considered having a marriage by commom lew. I suggest you use whatever title she used. If you don't know what that is I'd use Ms. and her first name. Using Ms, first name, last name is the accepted practice now. This would be the safest. Her age does not necessarily mean she clings to the old ways. If she doesn't use Mrs. That could bring up more pain. I suggest living together was not considered "correct" when they did that which indicates to me the possibility that she is more forward thinking.

I also suggest that she is mourning and won't care. The name on the envelope is a small detail. You could look up the obituary to see how she is named there.

I'm 72 and I don't like it when people assume I have stayed with the old ways.

If she's in her 90's, she probably would like Mrs.

i don't think it's a huge matter either way, but i'd use Mrs. if anything.
i'm actually with ziggy. for the envelope i'd use 'mary smith.'
khairete
S.

Grammatically speaking, "Ms." denotes a woman of unstated marital status. It would be neither insulting or inappropriate to use that with her name. On the off chance that she notices how the envelope is addressed, and she cares about the proper use of titles, she will recognize that you are using the correct term. If you know she still goes by his name, it is proper to use "Ms." with the name she's using.

I think it's so individual that you can't guess at it or make assumptions based on generation. The fact that she got a divorce yet went bak to live in the same house is already fairly unconventional for someone her age, so all bets are off. To be safe and to not ignore the reality of her divorce and later co-housing (whatever her reasons for it were), I would not use "Mrs. John Smith" at all. I'd either do "Mrs. Mary Smith" (but only if I knew she used that title) or "Ms. Mary Smith" (more likely) or just "Mary Smith" (assuming I already address her as Mary when I'm speaking to her, and not "Ms." or "Mrs."

When she got divorced, people stopped using "Mrs. John Smith" - so the fact that this couple later went back to sharing a house did not reintroduce his first name as part of her official moniker. Being respectful and honoring her are your reason for sending her a card, acknowledging that even though she was divorced, she has still suffered a loss.

Updated

I think it's so individual that you can't guess at it or make assumptions based on generation. The fact that she got a divorce yet went bak to live in the same house is already fairly unconventional for someone her age, so all bets are off. To be safe and to not ignore the reality of her divorce and later co-housing (whatever her reasons for it were), I would not use "Mrs. John Smith" at all. I'd either do "Mrs. Mary Smith" (but only if I knew she used that title) or "Ms. Mary Smith" (more likely) or just "Mary Smith" (assuming I already address her as Mary when I'm speaking to her, and not "Ms." or "Mrs."

When she got divorced, people stopped using "Mrs. John Smith" - so the fact that this couple later went back to sharing a house did not reintroduce his first name as part of her official moniker. Being respectful and honoring her are your reason for sending her a card, acknowledging that even though she was divorced, she has still suffered a loss.

I'm usually a stickler for proper etiquette. This is a tough one, but I think I'd address it as Ms. Mary Smith. In my book, she gave up the Mrs. title upon her divorce. Living with someone doesn't automatically give you the Mrs. title. With her husband deceased and the divorce, I wouldn't use Mrs. John Smith. Even though I'm pretty old-fashioned (although under 50), I don't know of many people who use that designation except for the most formal of invitations, if that.

I would go with Ms. Jane Smith. She was not a married woman when her ex passed. If she wanted to marry him again, presumably they would have taken steps to do that somewhere along the way.

If you're really not sure, then just Jane Smith would be fine.

If she too is in her 90s and is widowed, then I would say Mrs. John Smith. That would be the most respectful for her generation.

If she's divorced she is NOT Mrs. John Smith anything. She is Mrs. J. Smith or Mrs. Jane Smith or Ms. Jane Smith.

If she is a widow and was still married to him when he passed then she is still able to use his name as her title and you can use Mrs. John Smith.

I believe Ms is proper if you are not certain of the martial status or in the case of someone who is no longer married. Miss I believe per the definition and their generation would be for unmarried young ladies.

Is it possible to ask her what she prefers? Since norms for this sort of thing have changed dramatically over the last 50 years, I try to go with the preferences of the addressee. For example, my family is friends with an elderly lady. She is from the South. At her direction, my kids call her "Miss Ann." She is not "Mrs. Smith" to them. But she is also from a generation in which calling an older person by her first name without a title would be impertinent. In her (and my) native part of the country, Miss can be used not to refer to an unmarried woman, but rather as a title of respect. Other friends her age are "Mrs. Smith" regardless of whether they divorced or outlived their spouses. Some use their husband's names. Other use their own first names. A few prefer "Ms." - they marched for women's rights along with their daughters. Because the older generation have lived through the cultural transition, their preferences vary widely. Some changed with the culture. Others did not.

If I had to guess without consulting her, I'd go with Ms. (her first name) Last Name.

I believe the Ms. would be the right choice given these circumstances. They weren't married. Doesn't matter if they were living together after their divorce, they were in fact divorced and thus she is a single lady. Ms. Jane Smith.