My estranged husband and I appear to have wildly different views on how will will interact with our step-children after we split up (no date set yet, preliminary stage of divorce, still living together and figuring this out).
While we were never married before, he has a daughter and I have a son from prior relationships. We met when the kids were 2 & 3, got married when they were 5 and they are both 17 now. Both will likely be 18 before we officially split, both will be seniors in high school and both live with us full time with no contact with their other biological parents. We have two children together who are 9 & 11.
In my mind, the relationship between his daughter, myself and my family doesn't end when the marriage does. If I keep the house, she is welcome to live here and if she moves out, I'll still keep a space for her if she ever wants to stay over. Presuming my husband moves out, my son wouldn't spend time at his place because they have a strained relationship but SD and I get along just fine. She may choose to go with her dad, but depending on the timing, esp of he were to move out with just a few months of school left, I could see her opting to keep her home base at our house, where she has a room decorated and organized to her liking, she's within walking distance to school, can have friends over and have some space, etc. Whatever she chooses is fine with me. I would also expect that she would spend Christmas and Easter with my family as my husband doesn't celebrate Christian holidays and she has no contact with her biological mother or her mother's family. SD is Catholic like me and my kids and has always been a part of these extended family holiday get-togethers so I would expect her to continue going until she's truly and adult and has other plans.
My son has great relationships with my in-laws, including my husband's parents, brother, and cousins and I would expect him to be welcome at family events on that side of the family just as my SD and younger sons would be. Naturally as both kids become adults and go off to school, move away and start their own lives their presence will be less frequent, but I would assume that they would be welcome nonetheless.
My husband believes that each bio parent-child pair is a package deal and that when we split up, my relationship with his daugther and his with my son - and our families - will end and that anything else is abnormal.
If you've been a part of a family with ex-steps, what has your experience been? I wonder if I'm being unrealistic?
Thanks for your feedback!
Thank you everyone!
I still talk with my ex- stepmother. She also is my half- brothers mother, so that helps. My family is multi-dimensional. I've accepted any relationship that I have had as open and long lasting.
When I was married to my ex, he had three kids from his first marriage and I had one from a previous relationship.
When we split, his were all grown, and mine was a teen.
His kids all made a point of letting me know that, as far as they were concerned, my daughter was still their little sister and I was still their stepmom.
My daughter wanted little to do with him after we split. I allowed her to make that call.
He told his kids he wanted them to have nothing to do with me, and sent me a letter demanding that I cease any contact with his kids.
I ignored his letter, while his kids told him, in no uncertain terms, that they were long past the age when he could choose their friends for them.
I was invited to his kids' weddings.
ETA: Even when he and I were married, I had a better reltionship with his ex (my stepkids' mom) than he did. On more than one occasion, she told me, "Thank you for loving my children."
What a d-bag.
When my mom and step-dad divorced my junior year they told me and my step-brother (only 2 kids still at home and both juniors at the time) that we could live, visit and have whatever contact we wanted with our step-parent and step-sibling. To this day I am still very close to my ex step-dad and I am 40 years old and he is a wonderful grandpa to my children!! And I still refer to my ex step-brother as my brother and am very close with him and his wife and kids.
Are you freaking kidding me? If I ever liked your husband before, I can't stand him now. What a terrible thing to do to children whom you have parented most of their lives.
I would be exactly like you. Your husband is a jerk. Hopefully SD doesn't become warped by him.
As adults, unless he has ground them under his thumb as they've grown, he has NO legal control of what relationship they have with you.
Let your children know (when he's not around to be a jerk) that they are always welcome in your home, and that they will always be your kids and your family will always be their family, regardless of your relationship with their father.
Your soon-to-be ex is being, pardon my language, an a$$hole. It's obvious why you're divorcing him.
Be prepared to understand that they may initially respect his (ridiculous) attitude, because he's their dad and they'll feel guilty and dis-loyal. But as they grow into their adulthood, they hopefully will recognize what an incredible douch-noodle he is.
BLOOD does not make family - love and respect do. Give that to them - they are your family.
By 18, your son has the right and ability to keep in touch with whom he wishes, including his "former" family. Same with your SD. Your ex may discourage this, but you can tell your SD directly, "My door is open to you. I still care about you, even though I'm no longer technically your SM." Then each of the relatives can say the same and the children can decide who to talk to. I would expect some angst til they are able to stand up for what they want to do. I think right now your STBX is upset and keeping his DD on "his side" is important to him. Maybe he feels more strongly because he kept custody the last time.
I know several people who left the door open and the children continued to visit and keep in touch. Considering that you also have younger children together, I think that an olive branch could be offered to the bigger kids in part to keep the children's relationships growing. If I were to split from my DH, I would certainly invite her older sibs to big events, even if we no longer did Christmas together. If SD wanted to take DD to lunch on "my time" that would also be appropriate. So I think that just by virtue of being the other kids' mom, your SD will be in touch with you. That's my thought, given what you described.
Whether or not HE continues any relationship with a former stepchild is up to him, but I would hope he would be man enough if the child reached out to him. But I would prep my child for a fallout if you thought it was too strained to survive and encourage my son to talk to his grands and try to be adult about the relationships that remain. It may be that he keeps in touch with his stepsister, but not his stepfather or the grands. It really will depend on the other party.
So your husband thinks that he can force the kids to walk away from the other parent and each other. What a douche.
You should sit down with both of these kids together and tell them that you love them both. That they are part of your heart and your life and you want them to continue to be part of your life even after the divorce, no matter what your husband says.
I feel sorry for your bio-child. Your husband is basically saying he doesn't want that child around. I don't understand someone like him. I really don't.
As far as your expectations and if they are unrealistic are concerned, the only thing that is unrealistic is that things will stay the same. Sometimes the kids will have plans other than staying with you for holidays. That's what kids do. I can imagine that there are hurt feelings galore when your husband walks away from a child he has been a "father" to for years. I guess I would just say "Your father has a hard time having love in his heart, and I am very sorry for that."
Your husband doesn't get to be the boss of your grown children and take away their relationship with each other. He also doesn't get to take away his biological daughter from you. YOU show love to your step-son. He will know what's real. Tell him that he can come talk to you about anything and you will keep it between you two. And not to let negativity come between him and the other members of your nuclear family.
The idea that your husband will just walk away from your son makes my blood run cold. Honest, I would bet that his daughter will end up with no respect for him if he tries to do this.
The divorce is between you and your husband, not the kids. If the kids want it, the relationships should continue.
I have a friend who was never married, but started dating a guy when his older daughter was 2, the mother had signed over custody and moved two states away. My friend essentially raised this girl until she and her boyfriend split when the daughter was 11. I know that they still hang out and do things - even though her birth mother is semi-back in the picture. How lucky for this young lady to have two moms who both love her.
They can have the relationship they want. What your husband thinks should happen doesn't matter.
Ugh!! Several thoughts, not in any particular order...
It does feel a tad like you are thinking that the older kids' relationships with you, your to-be-ex, each other, and the two younger kids will not change. That probably will not be the case. At the very least, the change in household will have some effect for a while. It might be a GOOD effect, of course, since two people who aren't living well together will no longer have to interact daily. However, there will be some adjustment strains inevitably, and some new distance might occur, even be necessary.
Assuming that your soon-to-be-out-laws are good folks and will continue to love and nurture your son, your to-be-ex has no control over how they interact, when they invite him over, whether he goes, or when they come to your house to visit. Again, it's his issue and doesn't have to be theirs.
I think it is great and absolutely appropriate that you want to continue loving/ parenting your SD, and I bet she will appreciate it more than you can imagine. How is her relationship with your son? She and he have grown up as siblings, and you might want to be sure they continue to have as much time/contact as they want.
The upside is that the older kids are almost full legal adults and even now are old enough that I'd think any court would take their wishes into account in terms of residence, visiting, etc. So regardless of her father's asinine attitude, your SD can maintain as much of a relationship with you and your son as she wishes.
Overall, however, you probably will do well to put the question of how he will interact with your son out of your mind at this moment. You have no control over his thoughts or behavior now or in the future. Holidays with your SD also are low priority--she's going to be a full adult and in control of her own movements practically before next Easter, right? Right now, figuring out how to get you and the to-be-ex into separate households and working out good arrangements for the two younger kids' time with you and him would seem to be top priority. Sending you lots of good thoughts!
ETA: Your to-be-ex's future attitude might make it harder for your SD to do holidays with you, live with you, etc, since he might indeed give her the 'you are betraying me...' trip. But all you can control is what you do and say. So do sit down with her, say to her that your affection and support for her has not changed, assure her that the door will always open for visits, staying, etc. She probably knows it and it's really important to say it to her. You get to reassure her that on your end, separation/divorce is between the parents, not between the parents and the kids.
In my experience, reality is much more like your expectations than your soon to be ex's. Especially given that you are essentially more parent than step parent since the other bio-parent is not present. However, if the split happened when the kids were younger (or you had gotten together when the kids were older in the first place), I could see it being much more like your ex's expectations.
The thing is, as long as they are minors the bio-parent has the final say but once 18 hits it has less weight. I would suggest that you two do not get caught up in this debate (it sounds more like keeping his daughter from you is the issue since he and your son aren't close...maybe he's salty about that or about splitting in the first place...I don't know cause I don't know him or your situation).
I would suggest that you express your open door policy to your step-daughter and allow her to decide. However, be aware, that by choosing to stay with you (however rare or regular it is) could be seen by her dad as betrayal (even if just in her mind) so it could be awkward for her especially if she agrees with you but knows that dad doesn't.
omg! i'm SO glad you're leaving this jerk! after all this time together he really believes that the KIDS are getting divorced too?
that makes me so sad.
i'm glad you're keeping the door open. i hope he changes his mind.
jerk.
have i mentioned how glad i am you're splitting up with him?
khairete
S.
I'm glad you've made a decision that you're "happy" with (bad word, I know) but you've been quite clear about the strains in this marriage so I am happy for you that you're moving forward.
I think your husband is a mean guy with no sense of real relationships. It's terrible that he would punish his daughter and also cut off your son as if he's getting a divorce from a child he's share a home with for over a decade. I think you let your stepdaughter know she is welcome to say with you, and let her tell her father she's not leaving or completely disrupting her life before graduation. If she's under 18, he can refuse, but maybe he won't.
Presumably he'll show up now and then to see the 2 children you share together, so maybe he won't be horrible to his stepson and will include him now and then in dinners out or whatever he is doing with the other kids. Maybe he won't budge on this, and that will confirm to you that you are doing the right thing by divorcing him.
Your son and stepdaughter will navigate this better if you can show them how to be mature, compassionate and inclusive. You can't control your husband, and maybe they can't either, but it will, somehow, help them decide what kind of people they want to be. Your son is old enough, hopefully, to not take this as a personal rejection based on anything he's done or said, but just a reflection on the limited emotional development of his stepfather. Maybe your husband's extended family will not buy into this and will include your son. If not, they're limited people too, or they have no backbone. I don't know. But it's critical that your son not see this as his shortcoming or personal flaw.
I think there are so many different family scenarios now, and most people are open about these things. Hopefully it will work out better once it's actually happening and not just in the planning stage.
We're still close with my husband's brother's ex wife and her new husband (who was my brother-in-law's graduate advisor and a father figure to the kids after my BIL committed suicide). The BIL had a second wife, a new son, and he gave up the first 2 kids for adoption by the ex-wife's 2nd husband. (She's now married to the advisor, the 3rd husband). Confused? I am too sometimes! But everyone goes to graduations and bar mitzvahs and funerals, etc. and are civil and even warm.
The kids come first. Period. But of course only you can make that happen in your home with each of the children. You cannot now or ever negotiate the behavior of your ex with your son. Sorry, it just works out that way.
So, of course you should keep an open door, without pressure, for your step daughter. And of course, if your husband's relatives want, you should support your son in seeing them.
I would not plan where your step-daughter will live or where she will spend holidays on your own logic. Right now, your husband will have a different logic. This can all work out eventually, with invitations, without expectations. Go slow. Tred lightly.
The relationship you have with your step-daughter and her father will be a long road. Given what has happened in my family, that road will have pot holes, deep and harmful. But given a gentle spirit and forward-thinking love, the road will also have miles of shared trips. Recently a friend of mine had her three "Moms" attend and participate in her wedding - her Mom, her ex step Mom and her Dad's third wife. I think the person who was most touched was her Dad, who saw all the love and acceptance each of the "Moms" had. Just beautiful. All my best.
I would leave it up to the kids. They're old enough to know where they want to live and who they want to have a relationship with. You've been in their lives likely as long as they can remember and they have siblings in common. It would be cruel to cease contact with them. None of this is their fault and they shouldn't be treated badly because of the divorce.
No personal experience to share, but have a BIL who had a decorated bedroom in his house for his X girlfriends daughter who knew him since she was 2. Eventually, the bio mother married and that ended their relationship, but the last I knew, her room was still set up.
Here is my take on the situation. This is your husbands view on what everyone feelings should be. He has no control over how anyone feels, or should not anyway.
As well, the kids are still all a family. He created that when he had those two extra children. He can't expect his child to walk away from their sibling, if they choose not to.
I think what is important is the children. They should not have to conform to anyone's views on how they should feel, going either direction.
With that said, I think it is a beautiful thing for you to offer that she is welcome anytime.
I know someone who has been awarded visitation with her ex-step daughter who is in 5th or 6th grade. She demanded Christmas and several other dates. I am not sure how she got this, but she felt since the step-child has been in her life since a young age and that she has a 2 year old half sibling, that it is important to have them together. The ex husband and bio dad fought it, but the ex-wife won. So apparently it is not seen as abnormal in California courts.
I am happy your SD will be an adult and able to make her own choices. I have seen parent give pretty awful guilt trips to adult children for spending time with 'the other side' for special events. I hope he does not do this to his daughter.
Hopefully your extended ex in-laws will include your son along with the other kids.
"You divorce wives, not children"...can't remember what movie it's from, but have always loved the quotation.
