Be nice in your response, please. Here is the situation. My son has a kid friend. His mom has a 15 year old daughter. Her daughter is 'troubled' and they have sent her away, she had to come back home. The mom, (and this is only my opinion) really favors the son and I kind of feel sorry for the daughter. So her son was in a performance show, as was mine. I get to the auditorium frequently, during the winter and her daughter is sitting outside. i don't say anything but think to myself, "Gosh, it get pretty quiet out here and I wouldn't let my kids sit outside, alone, for fear they may be abducted." Whatever....I just move along in my own life. So it's at an ice rink and other times, I see her daughter sitting for hours alone, in the cold. Again...none of my business. Mom has told me stories about how she has made her daughter get out of the car and walk home from school for a mile or two. Again she is 15. I think it sounds pretty harsh and not that safe. I keep my big mouth shut though.
So the night of the big show. Two performances. Her daughter sat outside, in the cold ice rink, for the first performance (about 3-4 hours. Aghhhh....I show up on the 2nd performance. Daughter is still sitting outside. So I said, "Why are you out here in the first performance and again on this one." Her response was, "Oh, my mom couldn't afford a ticket for me on the first one. And now she is mad at me so she is making me stay out here."
Insert foot here, "You can come back into our dressing room (it's warm in there) and stay. I will tell your mom where you are." To be honest, I thought her mom didn't care where she was as long as she was away from her. I tell her mom. Her mom yells, "Absolutely not! She must get out of here. She is being punished! She cannot be back here." I simply said, "It's cold out there and dark outside." Mom states "No!" Well, I didn't tell her daughter to get out of dressing room and return to the outside. Instead, the mom comes in 5 minutes later and tells her to get out.
Now, her mom is pissed off at me until I apologize. I don't have a teenager. It's hard for me to apologize because I really didn't feel it wrong to just have the girl in a safe, warm place. It's dark and cold outside. And in the rink, it's just dang cold.
It just seemed harsh - that's all. But the little boy that was friend's with my son won't even say hello to my little boy now. My son has said "Hello" and the boy just ignores my son. I should tell him his mom is angry with me, probably. He's sad that his friend won't say hello.
ETA: Come to think of it, the mom did say that her sister called CPS on her. And yes, we do actually get cold in So Cal.
No. You acted like a human being, as we all should do in a similar situation. If someone saw my son freezing to death outside an ice rink, I would hope they would at least suggest to him to go inside and out of the cold.
The mom is really lucky that you did not call the authorities. Stay away from them. They are off balance.
There are other ways to punish a child but putting them out in the cold weather is not the way to do it. I would have done the same thing as you and I wouldn't be apologizing to the mother at all.
Honestly? I'd call CPS. She needs help. CPS can give her resources such as parenting classes and therapy. They don't JUST take kids away.
Then I'd go straight to the mother and tell her that it was me who reported her and suggest that she figure out some reasonable discipline techniques and start using those, instead of medieval ones (though I'm sure there's a nicer way to say that). She's treating her daughter worse than most people would treat a dog.
Yes, she'd be pissed, but she'd also get the help she clearly needs. And there's no way I'd apologize. SHE should be the one apologizing.
What a mixed up bunch. It sounds like you were trying to do the right thing, the nice thing and it didn’t end well for anyone involved. I would apologize but simply. “Jan, I am sorry I overstepped with your daughter. I was concerned she was cold.” From here on out, though, I would steer clear of that family.
I am confused by the people who are all hung up on the degree temperature. Being cold is relative. Besides the implication seems to me to be if she wasn't in danger of hypothermia and/or frost bite, then you had no right to offer her a warm spot. Sheesh. What's wrong with people's humanity? I suppose that time I offered a kid a band aid for her finger I was interfering since she didn't require emergency assistance. What’s wrong with offering help for even the minor things? Furthermore, I don't think it is wise to leave a child unattended for long stretches. Sure, we may never meet a predator but a single child alone in the dark seems to be inviting trouble unnecessarily. However, the offer for a warm spot is the real focus here and I just don’t think you did anything wrong by making a kind hearted gesture to a child.
Are you in San Diego? It's been soo long since I've lived there!! What's your definition of cold? I remember when I lived there - if it was below 60 degrees it was FREEZING!!
Any way - I digressed - I would have called CPS. That's NOT how you punish a child by making them get out of a car and walk home and it's NOT how you punish them by making them stay outside...SO NOT SAFE!!
Call CPS. Document everything you know. Don't exaggerate. State the truth...it was XX degrees outside and she wanted to punish her child and made her stay outside. She has told me on more than one occasion she has stopped the car and made her get out.
This mom NEEDS parenting classes. She NEEDS help. CPS will help. The question is whether or not the mom will accept it. Where is the dad in all of this mess?
I don't think you owe the mother an apology. I think the mother owes the child an apology. Teenager or not - and I've got one right now - they still need love, protection and guidance...shunning them is NOT going to help them!
Would you bring a dog in out of the cold?
There ya go.
I would call CPS, that teen is being neglected at best, and abused at worse. Sitting outside for several hours in the winter as punishment? Not even close to okay. She was removed from the home once (possibly for her safety and well being regardless of what mom may claim) and it seems she is not being well cared for. If her mom could not afford a ticket she should have been left home, not out in the cold for hours on end. I don't think it is even punishment, it is just the mom trying to find ways to be cruel to a daughter she feels does not measure up for some reason. That poor girl, I hope someone in her life is advocating for her.
I think you did right to invite her in by the way, a little bit of kindness can go a long way for a child who is not being shown love at home.
I keep thinking of the sad case here a few years back where a teen girl got out of her mom's car along a roadside here because the girl was angry and arguing with her brother in the car. The girl insisted on walking alone in the dark, mom drove away, and the girl ended up hit by another driver and lying dead by the road.
So I'm pretty appalled at people saying it's just fine for kids this age to walk a few miles home alone, even in the dark. Where do those folks live, that it's just fine and dandy and safe for that? I would not want my husband walking home alone in our very crime-free area, not with traffic, in the dark.
I'm also finding it silly that some are calling you out on how cold it was, or wasn't. They weren't there. You were.
I would have done what you did. It wasn't about you trying to undermine discipline, or disrespect this other parent. A child was in a place that seemed unpleasant and possibly unsafe to you and you reacted to that. I would hope anyone would. You weren't some total stranger luring her into that dressing room; you were a parent who was at least acquainted with her and you made a judgment call to get her somewhere that seemed safer.
You had only the girl's word that her mom was "making me stay out here.". The mom sounds like a pill and very possibly part of the problem herself. You weren't trying to tell her how to parent, or how to discipline; you added up cold plus dark plus a location where anyone could have come by and offered the kid a ride...And very importantly, you TOLD the mom the moment you had the daughter inside. It's not like mom had to hunt down her daughter frantically.
I would just direct your son toward other friends. Don't burden him with adult problems by telling him "Your friend's mom is mad at me" -- that is an adult issue and will upset and confuse him. Just shrug and say, "Maybe Johnny's just not feeling great today, let's go say hi to Billy and ask how he thought the show went!" and redirect your son's attention elsewhere. And avoid the family as much as possible. With the end of this show you won't have to encounter situations like the mom making the girl sit outside any more, will you?
Oh, and WHY on Earth would the mom actually volunteer to you that her own sister called CPS on her?? I don't get that at all. I do get why the sister might have called -- but for this mom to tell you that (was she saying it like she was bragging or what?) is just plain weird, almost like she was daring you to do the same....
I think you did the right thing. The girl took you up on the offer to come inside, so clearly she wasn't comfortable where she was outside. If she felt fine sitting in the dark and cold alone she would have stayed (seriously, at 15, I would have been freaked out alone out there).
And enough with the cold comments, people. Sure, we have a different perspective here in California, but we do feel cold.
I guess I'm in the minority here. I'm with Julie s. You don't know what the situation was and unless it was michigan cold i.e., more than just uncomfortable, it wasn't your business. That is a mom who is fed up with a child and was doing her best to discipline her and may have even been following directions of whatever therapy she had been in when she was sent away. You prejudged the situation without actually knowing what was going on and acted on that judgment. What would have been more helpful was to reach out to the mom and ask how you can help. You could have expressed your concern at that time. But honestly, if she IS being abused, you most likely made that situation worse for her.
She's sounds awful. You were being caring. How many times do we all hear of a child like this girl being harmed or hurt and the world says collectively how SOMEONE should have said something ?
I would much rather a parent gives me a rude look than a child is hurt because I did not intervene. How many times have I walked a child back to a care giver at a park or beach and they look at me with a grumpy shrug? Oh well. I won't stand by and have a child mistreated in front of me. You are in the right as far as I can see the situation.
Good for you for trying to help a child!!!!!!! Sounds like she could use someone on her side.
Do you know what high school she goes to? Could you quietly talk to the school counselor to let them know about her home life??
15 year old girl is safe in a car, come on, she will be driving or at least legal to, in a year. Even if it was colder it wasn't so cold that the temperature would be harmful either.
Seems like you projected your opinions on how she treats the two and made out the situation to be far worse than it was so that you could ask the girl in and in a way, say what you have been wanting to say all along, you don't like how she parents.
You really had no right but it is in the past so just apologize. Did you even consider for a moment you would have got that girl in trouble disobeying her mom? I hope that didn't happen and all the anger was directed at you but it is possible you got that poor girl in trouble.
Just apologize.
Just want to point out I say apologize because your son is paying for this. She doesn't sound like a nice woman, I completely disagree with her parenting, but you should have known someone that nutty is that nutty. It shouldn't be surprising you this is how it ended.
I am not saying that this woman is a great parent, but I don't see a problem with a child walking a mile or two (in fact I think making kids walk is better for them than driving them everywhere), I think 15 is plenty old enough to be alone outside (even in the dark), and my kids play outdoors for three or four hours at temperatures far colder than you have ever seen in So Cal. When the girl told you she was outside because her mother sent her there as a punishment it was wrong to tell her to go anywhere else and undermine that punishment. Maybe the punishment was fair, maybe it wasn't, but you weren't in the position to make that judgment. Did the girl actually tell you she was cold or scared of being abducted? If the girl truly was cold you might have offered her a sweater/jacket/blanket, or maybe a coffee/hot chocolate, but I still would have asked mom if it was OK to do this. You are thinking of this 15 year old as a young child rather than a teen who is old enough to babysit, get a job, and nearly old enough to drive.
Call CPS and let them know what's going on. The teen is being abused by mom.
Have to say it reminds me a bit of my friend growing up. The mom wasn't as cruel as this one but she was bad. Totally babied the brother though. Now neither of them speak to the mother and I can't help but think she got what she deserved. Not sure what to say with your situation but I hope this mother gets what she deserves someday too... Poor girl. For your son's sake, I might do a "I'm sorry but..." apology and see if that will mend the fences for your son. If not, the family is probably trouble in the long run and you can explain that to your son.
No you are fine. The other mother is a nut case. The girl is 15, you do not 'punish' a 15 yr old or any other child by treating her this way.
I would call CPS and explain exactly what you witnessed. This mom has some explaining to do.
I wonder what CPS found.
Sounds like a tough situation all around, and the little boy is probably in fear of retaliation from his mom.
You never know what troubles kids have, but sitting outside, alone, in the dark, in the cold is NEVER going to be acceptable in my book.
I wish I had suggestions of MORE you could do. I'm not a professional though, and these things sometimes are quite delicate.
It sounds like the mother should have made other arrangements for the daughter "if she couldn't afford a ticket" - obviously, the mother doesn't know how to handle everything. It sounds like the daughter could use some other arrangements...maybe somebody should call CPS.
I see nothing wrong with offering her a place inside - especially since you told the mom where she was.
I agree with Veruca Salt. You have no idea of the history of this family but if the daughter has already been "sent away," there are definitely some problems in the household. If you haven't raised a teenage daughter, especially a "difficult" one, you would not be able to understand how or why the mom can treat her daughter that way. I, unfortunately, did raise a "difficult" daughter on my own, and can easily think of a multitude of things the daughter may have done. It doesn't get THAT cold in Southern CA - I live in the SF Bay Area and I don't think we have had any whether around here that was significantly cold and it's much warmer in your area so I venture to say the daughter's health was not jeopardized by sitting outside.
I do think you stuck your nose in where it didn't belong and now your son is suffering from it. Like another poster suggested, you should have gone to the mom and maybe next time you will do that.
i dont think you did anything wrong. the other mom sounds mean and spiteful to me.
i am particular senitive to the cold weather..which we have quite alot this winter on the east coast. i have a circulation disorder in my fingers...even with mittens my fingers sometimes turn white and i cant feel them. i think this was brought on once when it was below zero when i was a kid and i got frost bite.
she might even be aware of what i just mentioned. but for me it becomes sometimes painful to sit in the cold.
i would stay by what you said. i would still be pleasant but she is wrong. Also my son is 14 yr. Well mannered. I would not want him to sit in the cold dark. He does bike to his friends houses close by and walks to school.
I think you did the right thing. This wasn't the first time you have noticed this child being "punished". Also it gets cold here once the sun goes down. Most people aren't dressed for it. Sitting on a metal bench or concrete makes the cold feel even worse. Second & this in my mind is a BIGGIE...San Diego is full of freeways & an abducted child can be on a freeway--going anywhere--including out of the country into Mexico--in 5 minutes or less. Especially from all the Ice Rinks in the County. So, yeah she's an older girl, but she is STILL a child, she is still vulnerable.
When I read the local news, at least once a month there will be a report of some creep trying to get a girl, sometimes even when there is more than one together. Sometimes in board daylight, sometimes at night--and it doesn't have to be late at night, just dark. Which in winter is before 5 pm. It doesn't just happen in the "bad neighborhoods" or the less tony ZIP codes, either. Most of the time, the girl gets away & that's how we hear about it. Unfortunately, some do not. Some of these pervs are looking for their own kicks & some of them are taking girls for prostitution rings that operate both here & in TJ.
Believe me, they are mostly looking for girls this age--that can pass for older with a little make-up, can pass for younger with the right props. And are young enough to control with fear & a little $. And if she is confused, "troubled", so much the better to control her.
So yeah, you DID "step in it", but IMHO, doing the right thing frequently pisses people off. And I'm sorry that your son is bearing the burnt of her anger, based on the son's reaction. I think you should tell your boy exactly why you did what you did. And you should call CPS if you see similar "punishments" in the future. Maybe find out if the poor child has any family, like her Aunt, that can help her, cause this Mom sounds awful. And I kinda wonder how quick this mom would be to report her child missing?
Hold you head high, because too many people don't want to get involved, are too important to help out another person in trouble. Thank You.
What's done is done.
That is what you did.
You did it out of the goodness of your heart and felt bad for the girl.
You did not mean to interfere.
So be it.
NOW though, you know how that Mom is. And her true character, because of how she is reacting to you now.
Better to know that now, than later.
Now you know, she is icky.
And taking out her hang ups on you for whatever reason.
Not everyone is nice.
Now you know.
And obviously that Mom/and her home and kids, have a lot of issues or problems or toxic dysfunctional issues.
So at least you know that. Now.
Move on.
what a tough situation. good for you for thinking first of the girl. it sounds as if she can use a friend.
i do understand why so many suggest you shouldn't interfere in a disciplinary situation. if this were the first time or only time, i think i'd be right there with them. sometimes sitting out an event is exactly what's called for.
in retrospect, speaking to the mom before inviting the girl in may have averted some of the pique. you DID circumvent her authority, and no parent likes that.
but being outside and alone seems pretty risky to me. especially with an already troubled child. in addition to the very real dangers of abduction, what if she just decides to run away? or a charming pimp comes along?
the sacrifice of the boys' friendship is a shame, but in the scheme of things, probably worth it.
but the next time you see the child sitting outside alone, just call CPS. maybe they can persuade the mother to find better disciplinary tactics where she's unwilling to listen to you.
khairete
S.
Just so some of you have some perspective, It is warm this winter. This is the the warmest winter I can ever recall. One week in November was cold, but nothing else. My Poinsettia stayed outside all winter (day and night). They did not wilt or anything.
Maybe you live inland away from the coast and I can see that getting cold possibly.
That mom sounds crazy yelling at you. If her teen is willing to be around other parents, I think that is great. I am not a parent to a teen, but I would much rather her be with parents than outside able to find trouble (i jump to this conclusion because the teen was sent away). The mom should not have expected you to send HER daughter back outside. Another assumption: she may think her daughter could say something to you that made her look even more crazy.
I wouldn't have done anything.
Sure it's harsh. But you have NO idea what was going on between that mom and her daughter. You live in San Diego. Right now it's 65 and the night time temp is 55. My boys are playing outside right now here north of Seattle and it's 52 outside. They are in short sleeve shirts and shorts. So, I highly doubt it was "freezing."
When I was 15 1/2 I was walking to and from work 3 miles both ways. After school and then home at night. Walking home when you are probably being a sassy mouthed teenager really isn't that big of a deal.
You know how before we all had kids we were SURE that we would be better parents then "those" parents that we saw whose child was throwing a fit? And then we became parents and found out, kids throw fits! Now, you do not have any teenagers, yet, but you think you would do a better job than this woman is doing.
I say, unless you are living with this girl or are great friends with this family then you really have no clue as to what this girl's family life is like.
What her mom was doing may not have been what *you* would have done, but I do not see it as abusive at all.
L.
I agree there are other ways of punishing her but it wasn't exactly freezing. Cps won't fine an older teen in danger for sitting out in 60* weather. I'd love to be sitting out side in that lol At 15 I biked every where, walked outside with and without friends at night. Without a car it was the only way around. Hell, at 12 I'd go anywhere, during the day though. You might want to say sorry but try to tell her why you did what you did and see why she thinks that's the only way to punish her daughter. Maybe the mom doesn't realize that maybe her daughter is hormonal and doesn't know how to deal with her body changing or maybe she has depression or anxiety. It's sad that parents don't realize that a "difficult" child might be for reasons that a physiologist can help them work though. It's just sad for the children.
