Daughters Attitude

Does she have any diagnoses? It sounds a bit like ODD, but I hate that everything has a label nowadays. Good for you for starting therapy together.

I guess if she's already seeing a therapist then maybe you should be seeing one too so you can best be advised on how to interact with her in an effective manner.
Maybe family therapy is needed for everyone - you, husband and all the kids.
If the current family therapist is not getting results it might be time to get a new family therapist.

I would second family therapy. Also, make sure you are firm and consistent with punishments.

But, you may never be able to force her to like her sister, mine hated me from the day I was born. You can, however, demand she show everyone in the family respect, her sister included.

E.,

Sorry. I would not reward my child for saying nasty stuff.

If her behavior isn't changing with a therapist - you need to find a new therapist.

When your daughter goes on this tirade? Take stuff AWAY from her. Discipline RIGHT THERE ON THE SPOT. Tell her that her behavior is unacceptable.

What is her problem with her sister? I get normal sibling rivalry - but this seems extreme. My 13 year old son is going through his phase of his baby brother being a pain in his behind....however, we do NOT allow wishing death on someone - EVER.

Are the rules the same for everyone in the house?
Does the baby sister get preferential treatment?
Are there rules for the house and consequences for not following the rules?

If you have been going to this therapist for 6 years and nothing has changed? Find a new therapist.

Good luck!

Please clarify -- how long has she been in therapy? From first grade now through fourth, the entire time, or is the therapy more recent? If she has been with the same therapist since first grade, or even for less time, it seems to be time to find a new one. If all of the family goes together to every session, please also consider that you may need one family session a week while she ALSO gets one additional session alone each week -- because if you find a good therapist whom she can trust, she may open up more (and get better help) if she sees that therapist alone at times. Are you seeing a "family counselor" or a full-on psychiatrist? Either can be fine but if she is continuing the very same things that got her into therapy in the first place (lying, stealing, cruel to others, lack of empathy?) then she may need individual psychiatry and not just family counseling. In other words: I'd be rethinking, hard, how much and what kind of help she needs.

Does this family therapy include work with you and dad on parenting? If you "give her almost any thing she wants" most of the time (even when she's good), I'd be asking the therapist or counselor about that; it sounds as if you are so relieved when she's even just OK that maybe you lavish her with stuff, and she's feeling entitled. That won't buy better behavior later, even if you take the stuff away when she's acting out. As someone else noted, you need to examine whether little sister is treated differently from big sister and why and how that happens, and how to stop it. If you and dad are not seeing a counselor or therapist WITHOUT the kids there -- you really, really need to get your own session so you can talk freely and get some serious advice about how to proceed, and the kids should not be present for all that.

I also hope that little sister is getting help because having a sibling tell you to die is beyond harsh, even where siblings fight a lot. If another child in school said this to your younger daughter, that child would be considered a serious bully and dealt with -- in fact, "go die" statements have been part of very real bullying situations where the victims later killed themselves. I am not saying that this will happen here but only pointing out that this kind of talk would be seen as extremely serious if it were between two unrelated kids; so how are you and the therapist considering it here? How was your older girl disciplined and does she even begin to comprehend that her words have life beyond the moment she says them?

Again -- this whole situation screams for therapy and it's great that you've been getting it for her and for yourselves. But if she has been in therapy for several years and continues the behaviors, something needs to change. I'd be looking right now for a new therapist, more intense therapy for her, and more parenting advice (not just talking about feelings, but real "scripts for how to handle situations" and plans for discipline, for you and dad to use).

If she has issues at school, are you AND her therapist working regularly with the school counselor and her teachers so that everyone who deals with your child is on the same page and has the same approach?

Are there consequences to her behavior? If not, there should be. I would start taking things away from her. You can't force her to like her sister, BUT you can force her to be respectful of the house.

Also, I would look into another therapist. I don't think you are getting results with the one you have.

I'm in agreement that family therapy is in order. You don't say why your daughter is in therapy, but it seems that things have gotten out of control in your home and there are a lot of attention-seeking behaviors manifesting from your older child. All of you need support, esp. your younger daughter; and you and your husband need some more problem-solving and discipline techniques. Remember, therapy isn't a bad thing at all-- it is about all of you getting better at functioning as a family, and that can only have a better outcome than what's going on now. Good luck!

Per your SWH: one thing I would suggest directly based on what you've written here-- what was the consequence for her rudeness toward her sister? If it were me as the parent of a child who did this, there would be a suspension of privileges until she was able to come up with a list of five good things about her little sister and to read it to her, face to face. Or to write a behavior plan for herself for the next time she is mad and wants to hurt someone's feelings. (Behavior plan is usually two parts: a statement of the problem/ why it came about, and what we will do in the future should those feelings arise. She is old enough to do this.)

I don't think drastic punishments are going to work, so I won't suggest that. What is your therapist suggesting should happen when she is mean or steals? Are they giving you any advice in this regard?

If her mouth is part of the trouble, then don't allow her to say anything at all. Put her on talking lock down.

I'm sure that's impossible but somehow she needs to learn self control when it comes to what she says.

Stealing is a different matter. If it were me, I'd scare take away everything she has and donate it all.

Please take Leigh R's statement very seriously:

"I also hope that little sister is getting help because having a sibling tell you to die is beyond harsh, even where siblings fight a lot."

A few years ago we had a similar situation going on between siblings (we didn't realize how badly the verbal cruelty had escalated, because it didn't take place in our presence) and the bullied sib ended up hospitalized for major depression and suicidal thoughts.

just wanted to say I almost wrote a post today entiltle unspeakable, because I just really dislike my 8 yo this week. she is so hard to love, and I know I can never never say that to her but lord is it the truth.

so here is my support it is hard when one kid is so easy and the other is just a crank pot.

It's time for home boot camp. I've seen this on Dr. Phil and read about it on parenting blogs. Clean everything out of her room and store it all in garbage bags. She can earn one thing back at a time. If she acts up again, remove everything she's earned again.

http://voices.yahoo.com/home-boot-camp-discipline-tips-st...