Hi Mom's - As you may have gathered from my previous posts my husband and I do not always see eye to eye on things, so this is from my perspective trying to be as fair minded as possible.
Yesterday evening when my husband came home from work my daughter (4) and I were in the middle of tidying up, we had finished two rooms, still had to get to the den. So he came home and we stopped cleaning to say hi etc. We kept him company while he ate his dinner. After dinner he saw he dolls were on the floor in the den and some other things a book on the sofa, her sock and sneakers on the floor as well. So she was playing in the other room with her doll house when he yelled to her to get in the den and clean up. She was definitly being sassy and silly and responded that hshe couldn't help becuase she was scared of her dolls. Rather than tell her she was being silly he yelled at her to get in there, and then started to count to 5. And as usual, anything he had clean on his own he would throw out. SO she started cleaning, then while she was putting somehting away in the her room her Daddy picked up her sneakers, she freaked out becusae she thought he was going to throw them away. He did not realize that was why she was having hysterics, I tried to tell him but he told me to shut up. So now she is having a meltdown, he is angry and I am washing dishes trying to let them resolve their own issues.
He starts telling her loudly (okay yelling) that she needs to stop crying and listen. All she starts to do is cry that she wants Mommy. Me, I am still tyring to stay uninvolved. So then he tells her fine you want Mommy go, you don't need me, and I thought I heard him say that I don't need you, but she was crying so I hope I mis heard. Anyway he then goes to the den and starts throwing things into a box of garbage. I asked him what he was doing (possibly with a bit of attitude,becuase he know I don't htink we should throw away, only take away) and he said throwing it away and I was not ALLOWED to buy her a new one (a book about trains). He then while yelling started throwing things at the box which was two rooms away. ANd I mean angry throwing, with our daughter their to watch. I yelled at him to stop throwing things and he told be to shut up, then I told him he needed to calm down or leave. He threw something else at the box and I told him if he did not stop I was going to call the police. He then left.
Later in the evening after I put our daughter to sleep, he by the way refused to go in and tell her good night, and she told me she was too scared to go out to him, I aplogized for the police comment, but it was the only thing I could think of to get him to stop (it worked). So then he made a comment of "of, so the ends justify the means" and then stormed out of the house again.
We did not talk again until this morning, which was a brief good morning, and then he left. He wasn't even going to kiss ur daughter good bye until she called out to him what about hugs at the door (that is our routine for when he goes to work). SO he stopped. Then he tried to change the routine! Normally I hold her and we all hug and give kisses with her in the middle. He tried to hold her an exclude me (which I get because he is upset with me) but she of course wanted me to hold her.
So now we are at now - he is at work and I do not know what to do. I get that he is angry with me, I am not too happy with him either. But that aside, how do I get him to see that his behavior impacts our daughter. She knows that throwing htings is wrong, and beign angry and thrwing things is really wrong. THen he does it! SO how the heck do I enforce that rule now? Right wrong or otherwise (what do yout htink?) I explained to her that Daddy was wrong, and that he was being naughty. SHe then asked about the police. So I told her that they would not come and take Daddy away, but if I did call hem (which I did not) they would tell him he was being naughty.
I just am at a loss. To my thoughts his behavior is so bad for her to see, we might be better off without him around. WHen he is not like this he is wonderful, but the constant back and forth is makign me nuts. And when our daughter says she likes Mommy better becuase I am not like Daddy, how do I respond. SHe seems to really pick up on the fact that he is so changeable and while she loves to play with him she seems to always be worried that he is going to get angry again...
I also don't know if I am over reacting becuase I am a bit hormonal (aka 16 weeks pregnant)...
THanks for letting me vent and question... as always ALL thoughts and opinions are welcome.
(oh and for those who have read my earlier questions about my daughter and tantrums, she has not had one with me since that day. She will cry, but when I tell her she needs to talk to me she does)
Truthfully - I'd ask him to go to counseling. I can't see the situation improving - especially with another baby on the way. If he won't go, maybe you could go and get advice on how to deal with his tantrums (because that's what they are). Good luck - I hope things improve.
Your husband needs to learn to walk away when he is frustrated. He needs to model the behavior he wants from her. Explain it to him that he just showed her that what she is doing is right. That it is okay to lose your temper, to be a petulant child.
Kids do not, do as you say not as you do! They will do everything you do. The difference is they see it as the more powerful you are the more you can get by with. Then you end up with a bully. :(
She is only 4 years old. What are the both of you thinking? He needs to stop taking anger out on a little girl, he sounds like a bully!! I would not have him in my house unless he is in counselling a.s.a.p. He needs help. Your the mom and you need to put down your foot and make sure your daughter is not going to see this behavior again. I feel horrible for her and you to have to deal with him. Get help now for the both of you. I wish you happiness!
I read through your post and the only things that come to mind are words like "bully" and "anger issues" and "abusive".
This is not normal. This is not acceptable. That is not how a real man acts. You can tell him I said that.
wow, that man has issues!
red flags all over this post.
:(
khairete
S.
Honestly, J., I don't know where to start...In a perfect world, he'd go to anger management classes, marriage counseling and parenting classes.
But I do know this...you can't change people. And this isn't a perfect world.
However, I would not raise a child in an environment like that.
Something's gotta change.
And, sadly, you're going to have to be the O. to control YOUR actions and behaviors accordingly. You also have a responsibility to your child to provide a safe, loving environment in which she can live and thrive. Not live in fear.
That said, I wouldn't walk on eggshells in my own home.
I'd be gone yesterday.
All the best.
I hate to be the bearer of bad news but your husband is an abuser. You need to get him out of the home or you need to move out for the saftey of you, your daughter and your unborn child.
Get into counseling to learn how to deal with him and to get your life back. He needs counseling to learn how to control his behavior.
Get out now before the fists start flying. His behavior is completely unacceptable.
I hope this doesn't sound mean --- that is not my intention. But you need to see him as is. This is only going to get worse.
My first thoughts are of course the angry ones. For example, "I wish he WOULD tellI me to shut up" or "I wonder how many of his articles of clothing I can throw on the front lawn if I stand at the end of the living room sofa."
I'm going to try to handle this in a more rational manner, as I believe these aren't the kind of thoughts and opinions you will welcome most....although for the record I stand behind them.
1. Your husband needs some parenting classes. He needs to understand how to de-escalate himself as well as his child. He needs to learn how to pick his battles. He needs to learn how to communicate with you about your daughter even in high stress situations. He needs to learn how to MODEL APPROPRIATE BEHAVIOR.
2. At the point that your husband's behavior has deteriorated to roughly the point of your 4 yo daughter you should be stepping in. Don't wait until it gets to raving lunatic level, he's beyond reasoning and you have to threaten to call the cops to get him to walk away. Your daughter needs to be dealing with an adult at all times so if he opts out of that responsibility you need to step in.
3. He needs to understand the fact that his love and the expression of that love should always be unconditional. He should not ever withold himself from his child. That's shameful and he should feel shamed by it.
4. You need to inform him that rather than causing her to respect him, he has caused her to fear him. Children don't trust those whom they fear. Child don't confide in those whom they fear. Children withdraw from those whom they fear and if he continues his behavior one day he will reach to hug her and she will pull away and a piece of his soul will die.
Wait till he is calm, talk to him, tell him where it all went wrong, what you BOTH could have done differently, and what your expectations are. If he can't comply, seek counseling and if he won't go then go alone. I would have a really hard time trusting him and I would let him know that. If he acted this way when you were there, how far gone would it have gotten if you weren't there to make him stop?
Oh my! I don't know where to start! I guess I will start with the MAJOR disrespect that he shows you IN FRONT of your child when he tells you over and over to "shut up". I could not and would not live with that alone. Aside from that, there are sooo many other things going on there that would be deal breakers for me, and I am one who believes in relationships NOT being disposeable. (this however, seems to be a real issue and may not be salvageable). I would have issue with:
Him screaming at my child and not allowing her to explain herself
Being told to shut up at all, let alone in front of my child
Him thinking he was in control of the condition of the house (cleanliness) especially after 2 rooms had been cleaned and he failed to notice THAt. Plus, you were doing dishes, were you not?
His failure to allow the child to express her fears without being yelled at (that will result in some serious trust issues later in l;ife when she needs to be able to talk to him or you about more important issues)
Obviously the throwing things issue, and especially in anger
The fact that he was throwing the things in the trash when you clearly don't agree with that. Why couldn't the items that were not picked up be put away or out of the child's reach for a specified amount of time and earned back?
The fact that he felt entitled to TELL you what you could or could not buy, in any case, but especially for YOUR child
Withholding love and affection from his own child when he was angry. (or at any time actually) It's just WRONG. Even if you are upset at your child, they still NEED to know that you love them and will always be there for them
His refusal to be loving and affectionate with his child STILL this morning until she basically guilted him into it. He has major issues with anger and self control. I would have MAJOR issues with him.
His withholding of affection and love from YOU, his partner, because he was angry. That's wrong. He should have sat down LAST night and spoken to you about the incident and it would have given you both the opportunity to clear the air and try to work things out then
Really, your apology for saying that you would call the police if he didn't stop was justified. WHY did you feel the need to apologise for that? Was it because he was angry that you said it? HE should have been the one to apologise to YOU for acting in a way that made you feel that was your only option. You have to do SOMETHING when someone is acting in an inappropriate way, and if calling the police is the only thing you can do to diffuse the situation, well then that's what you do.
You are pregnant with another child from this man? I don't care how nice or what a "good Dad" he can be at other times. He needs a real big reality check, some anger management, and LOTS of parenting classes before you have that baby. What will he do if and when you have the baby and God forbid he or she is colicy and cries all night long? I think he needs to take a deep breath and really look at himself and the example he is setting for his child. How would HE react if his daughter acted that way toward your next child someday? Having children we often get to look at ourselves in a mirror because they emmulate us so often. Is this the behavior that you or he would want your daughter to play out with anyone else?
Seriously I would be looking for my way out. Start now, and don't selay. I can't see anything good from sticking by this guy. Sorry! :(
Your husband has anger management issues. We ALL have bad days and sometimes snap at our kids but it sounds like both you and your daughter walk on eggshells around him because you never know when he'll go off, and that is just not normal or right. I could never live in that kind of environment, never mind bringing children into it.
And blaming your own hormones for his abusive, immature behavior? Oh HELL no!
A father should be firm yes, but loving, gentle, patient and kind, ESPECIALLY with his little girl, she should be the apple of his eye!
You need to have a serious talk with him. I'm sure he needs professional help, most people can't change these kinds of behaviors on their own, and another baby is just going to add to his stress and anxiety.
Your husband doesn't know how to treat you or your child. When I see posts like this I just wish Judge Judy was reading them. I think everyone knows what she would have to say.
In your own words: "I'm not ALLOWED to.....He told me to SHUT UP"
Really? I would find a new place to live with my child or show that man the DOOR, get a legal separation and change the locks. The guy yells and throws things around and away from a four year old? Supervised visitation only and the man needs some parenting classes and anger management.
I agree with everything said here. This man has serious anger issues. It is only a matter of time until he harms you or your daughter. He needs counseling, stat!
If he doesn't see it, perhaps you need something to show him. Can you video his behavior? Then, when he is calm and collected, have a talk with him and show him the video. People often don't realize how serious their behavior is until they see it themselves. Just a thought.
I think you need to ask your husband if you can have a sit down to talk about what happened when he is calmed down and not in a foul mood. Maybe even in a neutral place like a coffee shop, with your DD not present (if you can find a sitter to take her for awhile). Tell him you understand why he was mad, but his angry actions and words were not OK. You don't want your DD to see her parents throwing things around in anger, and certainly you don't want her to see her Dad yell at her Mom to "shut up" It's not right. Your DD is struggling to feel secure because she isn't sure when he will be in good and playful mood, or turn extremely angry. Tell him you know he loves her and she loves him, and you love him. Ask him if he is willing to seek help with his emotions. Tell him you know you are not perfect and you are also willing to go in to counseling. If he gets angry, or defensive, or blames you for everything, refuses to seek help, or storms off again like a child, I would be making plans to separate. It isn't good for your DD to be treated that way and see her Mom being put down too. I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope your DH is receptive to getting some help.
He reminds me of my own father. If your husband is like this frequently, as in often enough for you to say, "When he's not like this he's wonderful" then I beg you to get out. This is beyond unhealthy for you and your daughter and unborn baby. You can't let this be the model of relationship that your daughter learns is "normal" or she'll most likely run to the first boy who whispers in her ear, and get married far too soon to escape her home life.
I used to pray every single night that my mother would wake up decide that was the day she would leave my father and put us first. I cried every single day. I'll tell you right now that if your husband can behave as he is right now toward you AND your daughter, then it's not far or long before he physically harms you AND her. I tell you this from unfortunate experience that lasted from toddlerhood until my late teens. I have a lot of issues with my mother today, as much as I love her, because she wouldn't leave my father and didn't protect me as a mother should have.
Protect your children. Listen to your daughter. She's begging you to protect her and choose her.
WHAT? He was so out-of-control that you threatened to call the police? Stop making excuses for him (you've made so many here that I lost count) and recognize the fact that he has a serious anger problem.
We all lose our tempers at times, but to lash-out at your own child to the point that the child doesn't want to be around the parent? That's a problem. To the point where you feel the need to threaten with a 911 call? That's a problem. To the point where your child verbally states that she doesn't like her father? That's a real problem.
Time for daddy to get some help. If he won't... he needs to find another place to call "home" until he recognizes the impact he is having on his child.
This is beyond horrible. In all my 45 years, I have never, ever experienced anything like this. I would not be "at a loss". I would be in my bedroom and my daughters packing our bags. There is not one single second I would accept this treatment for me and/or my child. Good luck.
Sounds to me like he has some issues. Maybe this doesn't happen often, maybe this is a one off. I don't really know, you didn't say this has happened before or how frequent this happens. So I'm going to say this is a one off situation.
My first thought was that wow, he wouldn't make it at my house if shoes, books, dolls were laying on the floor when he got home. (As these items could be there for one day, two day, and depending on evening schedules three days). My second thought is that something had already set him off and if these are his pet peeves then the line was broke.
Kids especially four years olds do not necessarily understand a "clean house"... but throwing things away? To me is extreme...taking them away and not giving them back for a few days is better. But that is my opinion.
I will say he acted childish, and therefore your daughter will learn from his tantrum that she can do it too.
ETA: I am in no way condoning his behavior, it is unacceptable. And the two of you need to talk ASAP.
I would tell him that you need family counseling and parenting classes because while we all have bad days, he seems to have a lot of them and is very impatient with a 4 yr old. I grew up with parents that would get angry about stupid things and I never knew what kind of mood they would be in. It was very hard. Please find a way to get this resolved for her sake. OF COURSE she prefers you! If he's over the top, then he may be causing his own tantrum problems with her AND she may have that behavior trait from him which is why she went so far off the deep end that other time. Everybody needs to calm down.
J.,
I agree with what the other parents are saying as well,by highlighting"allowed"and "shut-up".This is my opinion and my opinion only,but...I think your husband is controlling,I also think there is either jealousy or resentment toward your daughter,why/IDK.either way,you dont want your daughter growing up and thinking that this is the way a women(or anyone)should be treated.If you stay with him,which it sounds that way because baby number two is coming and you sound like youre not quite sure yet.Try to get him to go to counseling,this is NOT a one time deal,believe me J. its not.I bet about two hours before he comes home an anxiety comes over you and you think"let me make sure the house is the way he likes it and dinner is done ect......Its never enough,its never good enough because thats not the issue.You do not deserve to lump in your throat and pain in your heart because you know youre getting ready to referee your husband and daughter all night.(brother n sister or father n daughter?)He is supposed to be your support,your partner.We all go through it some way,youre just brave enough to say it out loud.Theres a new baby on the way,so do it now.Once is too many times,she already fears him.Dont spend the rest of your life trying to make excuses to him for your daughter,shes four,she shouldve been praised for cleaning what she did.Theres ways to handle your childs behavoir and what hes doing is not it.You should not know what anxiety and tension feel like when youre four.This world today has ten year olds acting like theyre twenty.Its bad enough.Us moms are the heart of any home,we keep the peace and clean the house and so on. Im glad your daughter hasnt had any tantrums latly..now only if your husband would follow suit...thats what they are tantrums,but im sorry not at his family's expense.Give him an ultimatum and mean it.
Counseling, counseling, counseling. Did I mention counseling?
Of course his behavior is unacceptable. But what I have come to realize through some life experience is that the other partner may have a much more subtle, yet equal role in the negative dynamic. It will probably take LOTS of work with a neutral, highly competent person to help figure out how to help this family function better.
It's not good for children to grow up in a volatile atmosphere. That being said, imho it is not always the case that one parent is troubled and the other all good. That's where the counseling helps both parents to bring out the best in themselves and each other. And if that doesn't work sometimes it's best to separate (and I don't say that lightly).
Good luck.
Get counseling together NOW. That is violence in any name and it will escilate if your husband does not learn to control his temper. Your daughter is only 4 years old and the bigger they get the more "things" come up and you don't want her or you to get hurt because he throws things without thinking. My husband and I are in counseling because of his temper (and other issues too) but mainly because he threw something with our 2 year old in the room and it missed her but IF it hit her she would have been very hurt. He was kicked out with the altimatime either get help or get out permanently. He chose help and he and we are doing muh better. There are better ways of dealing with anger and frustration than violence. Also your daughter will start using Daddy's method of dealing and you don't want that either. Good, bad or inderfernt our children DO what we do and he is setting a very bad example for her. God Bless!
If you husband won't get help for his anger problems, and additionally take some parenting classes so he has a clue what a young child is thinking/feeling, then I think you need to get away from him.
He sounds like he is getting worse, and worse means going from throwing things to throwing things at people/hurting people.
Your daughter is already SCARED of him, for good reason.
His behavior is 'bad for her to see'??? I think that's an understatement. He's acting himself like a toddler. You are NOT overreacting. Your husband needs anger management. I hope that doesn't sound too harsh but he def needs some kind of therapy. NO CHILD should be terrified of their parents. Of course parents need to set boundaries and kids need to have a healthy sense of knowing if they do something wrong there are consequences, but this goes WAY beyond that. Also if he has issues with you he should only take them up with you NOT put your child in the middle. He's being not only immature but I think has serious issues he needs to address.
Been there. It creates a hateful stressful situation. My hubby used to do that and yes, his father probably did that too. If you go back and read what you said, your daughter actually was listening from a child's view point. She was picking up her things, but not fast enough for your hubby. Come on, count to 5 is not enough time. I tried everything...I tried defiance and took things out of the trash, then he'd break the toys and throw them out...I tried buying them, which didn't stop him from throwing toys out, but he never noticed I rebought the toys....Tried telling him him he was acting like a baby....Tried telling him yelling and adult temper tantrums don't work. ....Even tried throwing his socks out when he didn't pick them up....Took me a while to realize that hubby was going through a rage. During a rage, they can't hear you and literally loose all of their reasoning ability as the blood pressure rises....I discovered it is a lot easier to wait, even if you have to wait days, then talk about it trying not to let them know you feel they did something wrong. (Don't want them to defend themselves.) I calmly told him about grounding a child is better than taking things away, because the child has nothing to work toward. Once you throw out all their toys, then the child feels why should they listen since there's nothing left. So we set reasonable grounding measures in place, so we can actually support each other as a parent. Cross my fingers, he hasn't thrown anything out since.
Hoo boy, that sounds just horrible. Did your husband have a rough childhood? Is he under a lot of stress at work? It sounds like once his anger gets a hold of him, he is no longer able to control himself. He needs to see someone about anger management ASAP.
I know what I am talking about, since my husband had anger issues too. He was terribly abused as a child and while he is 1000 times better than his dad about flipping out, he still sometimes goes off (he never hit anyone, but crazy yelling or smacking the wall is not much better). Therapy has helped him, as have some conversations about it when he was not angry and I could be very non-judgmental.
What drives him to want to change is the fact that he wants his kids to want to be around him and not hate him like he hates his own father. Maybe you can find a similar "goal" that will help your husband want to change, because until he wants to, nothing is going to get better. Otherwise you will need to walk out that door for your daughter's sake, if not your own.
Sound like my house the last 20 yrs
