Catholic Vs. Jewish Upbringing, Trying to Understand Family Culture

I'm an Orthodox Jew who graduated from college and I'm a SAHM of 3 (2 big kids and a baby). I did not send my 2-year-olds to school or have a nanny care for them. Neither do my friends or sisters. Neither did my mom, who raised all 6 of us and only went to work full time when the "baby" was 3.

There *are* people who put themselves before anyone else, including their kids, but I don't think that's a religious issue.

I think in general, no matter religion or class, women tend to be more liberal and femjnist in general with each new generation. Like the younger you are, the less likely you are to be a sahm. A lot of women i know think sahms are brainwashed by religion, oppressed by men, or have no ambition. I live in a very conservative, mostly protestant state and as a sahm, i feel like a minority.

I wouldn't know where to begin to try to answer because this 'question' is just full of judgments. I thought that in this day and age we understand that every family is different and what works for some won t work for others. Why do we have to judge?

It's normal for parents to love their children and for people to love and care about their families. Whether mom stays home, or dad stays home, or both parents work, or a single parent works or you have 2 dads or 2 moms, normal is to love and care about your children and your family. Whether you are Italian or Irish or Jewish or Catholic, have a nanny, don't have a nanny....it's all normal... it's all good. Thank goodness that the spectrum of normal has become so huge, thank goodness for tolerance, thank goodness for people respecting each others' choices.

As long as the children are being cared for, what business of yours is it who does it? I mean, yes I find it odd to be a stay at home and have a nanny, but I would never assume my way is normal and that those others are not. Also, to say it is a Jewish thing is very stereotypical and makes you sound somewhat bigoted, although I am assuming that was not your intent.

I am Jewish, not from NY, and my husband is Catholic, but Irish, not Italian. Yes, there are cultural differences. I won't get into all of them, because they're all generalizations, but I don't think that you're wrong in making some correlations between the cultural differences and what you are seeing. It does make it hard to really understand, sometimes, where someone else is coming from, and it's really hard not to judge (believe me, I'm a judger, despite my best intentions).

However, my sincerest wish is that you can step back and really think about the differences and say to yourself, "sure, that's not how I would do it, but it doesn't make my way better OR worse. Just different." Because the one thing that I can promise you is that all of those moms that kvetch about their kids, have a nanny, etc, would not hesitate to lay down in front of an oncoming train if it meant saving one of their kids. The face that we put on for the outside world is very much culturally determined, but the stuff that we've got going on on the inside is pretty much all the same.

E., I have not read any of the other responses, but I can definitely understand why Jewish people would have been offended by your question, because your subject line clearly indicates that you assume it is a "catholic vs. jewish" difference in raising children that you are questioning. I am neither (FYI, I'm a Protestant, and also a well-educated, successful person who chose to become a SAHM), so perhaps I can answer you objectively.

I think you answered your own question, actually - you raise your children as you were raised, and that is exactly how the vast majority of mothers raise their children, and it is exactly how the vast majority of people develop their concepts of family. It has nothing to do with religion. I would guess though, that money does have a big influence though, since in general more money means nannies, housekeepers, dining out, etc. And if you grew up in a house with nannies, etc., you'll be much more likely to have these for your children.

As for love from a child's family being better or more important than love from other people, I have to disagree with you on that. Yes, it is important for your family to love you, but it is also just as important for others to love you, and it is also very possible for other people to love a child more than a family member might. Love is invaluable, and it is irrelevent whether it comes another relative or a neighbor or a pastor or a teacher. And FYI, I STRONGLY believe that very often, a non-family member may be more capable (or at least just as capable!!) of raising a child properly than a family member. Being a blood relative of a child doesn't automatically make anyone an expert in parenting.

As for SAHM vs. working mom, that is a personal choice that has absolutely nothing to do with how much you love your child. It has to do with economics and your own personality of what you need to be happy in your life. Loving your career does not mean you love your children any less.

In short, E., everyone is different, and it doesn't matter that the majority is, and there is no set answer on how rich people or jewish people, or asian people, or midwesterns or europeans raise their children, and there is no right or wrong except for this: Love your children, Love yourself, Love your family, Love your neighbors. Love the whole damn world, and teach your children to do the same.

Hello,

Jews and Italians are quite similar when it comes to placing a high value on family life, so I'm actually surprised to hear some of what you wrote, and can only chalk it up to the "subculture" of whatever area in New York you're living. Having said that, complaning or, cvetching (Yiddish word for "complaning") does seem to be part of the Jewish tradition...for better or for worse. :) It's sort of in the genes. :) I grew up in a mixed Italian/Catholic and Jewish family...in New York City, and like you, I take care of our home and our child...I have never once had a nanny.

I know you're not stereotyping or making this a religious issue, but just remember that so many factors contribute to how people come to shape their lives and the attitudes they possess. It's never a direct correlation...

I see this much less of cultural/religious but economic. Some how That is viewed as being a "successful" parent. I"m concerned about the children and how it will play out generations from now.
enjoy your little one.

Well, let me twist the perspective this way...

What if I looked at your own description of how you live your life and raised my eyebrows and thought...Hmm...I wonder how she was brought up?!

To get to your question: "What is the majority?" -- Such a thing does not (nor has ever) existed. The way people think and feel and live has always been wonderfully different and perplexing and interesting. I think Catholic vs Jewish would represent the very least of our differences. And for the record...You posting that::

"The majority of women that live by me are jewish. They all have full time nannies, housekeepers and their 2 year olds go to school 5 days a week. They DON'T work and always complain about their kids. They also seem to always put their friends before family as I notice many of them would invite a friend over a SIL/BIL/MIL, etc. Is this just the area I live in (upper middle class)? or is this how they were raised and don't know any different?"

Was IMO kinda mind blowing and makes me lose a smidgen of hope for my children's future world of peace and understanding. Because you are literally saying that anyone who is different from you is that way because they "don't know any different."

I was raised Catholic and was taught to be independent and educated, that men should do their fair share of the housekeeping, and that if I chose to be a SAHM, to always be able to make my own money ("have a marketable skill") if it was necessary. My mother and grandmother were both raised working class in an Irish neighborhood south of Boston, and my grandfather did more than his fair share of taking care of the children and the house, even though my Nana was a SAHM. She had been a nurse during WW1, and could always fall back on that if the family needed money, but she never needed to. My mother went to school and worked full time from the time I was 8yo, eventually earning two Master's Degrees. Suffice it to say, I'm sure there are "cultural norms" but my upbringing didn't make me be a SAHM, it was what I chose for many years because that's what worked for us.
The Jewish people I know (and we have very close friends who are) choose family over friends, but frinedships are important to them. They are working class-middle class people.

It sounds like what you describe is more of a trait of the upper class than a religious issue. At least, that's what my experience tells me.

Everyone is going to have a different answer, and what it "right" and "proper" for someone else might not be right for you, so I would not worry that much about what other people do and what they think. It is not anyone's place to judge. Everyone needs to just do what works for them. They are not doing anything that is morally or ethically out-of-place so I would not be making assumptions about their values based on what little you know about them.

I work full-time, and my husband is the one staying home with our daughter - it's just the opposite from the roles my parents played, but they also emphasized that I needed to get an education and be able to take care of myself financially and not depend on a husband to meet those needs. Does that seem "improper" to you?

While there are cultural differences, I wouldn't see it as a Catholic - Jewish - Irish - German - any issue, but just a difference in the way you/we are raised.

My husband and I have been together 24 years married 22. My mother in law is amazingly supportive and a wonderful woman. I honestly love and respect her beyond measure! Now having said that, she and I have had differences, even within the last 6 months on how things "should" be done or more accurately how SHE raised HER kids vs how I am raising mine!

I too am college educated and had to work my way though because my parents couldn't afford to pay for my college. That was one issue WAY back when I had our son (20 years ago) why I didn't just quit work. I remember telling her, in a nice way, that unlike her kids (my husband/her son included) I did not get my education handed to me. I had to work for it, I enjoy working and I didn't want to waste what I had worked so hard to achieve. I finally did quit working outside of the home, once the kids hit school age and have never regretted it!

Then recently, our now 16 year old daughter made some seemingly innocent comment about making her own sandwich one night. Now mind you, at 16 and a competitive softball player and honor roll student in a college prep school there was probably a reason why she missed dinner and elected to fix her own sandwich. But my dear mother in law turn to me and really was kinda nasty when she said something about HER kids ALWAYS had a HOT HOME COOKED meal no matter what. OK, I doubt it, but what ever. I calmly responded that, I had been raised differently. My mom HAD to work so my brother's and I were taught from an early age to be independent and self-reliant. Thus my kids have been taught the same.
She shut up and it's never been mentioned again!

Of course my mom cooked, cleaned, did laundry, took care of us when sick etc. But as a self-employed small business owner, it was just different that the stay at home mom.

Like I said, I finally quit working clinically as a nurse. But I miss nursing and I miss working! I worked hard for that degree! *Finished my BSN married, with a 3 year old, pregnant with #2 and working full time! But I also realized, that for our family, home is where I need to be now. But I am still very involved in the kids' school and the community which keeps me busy and therefore not always able to put that hot meal on the the table. It works for us.

I would just hope that at some point in our society we can get past the issue of work vs. stay at home. There are pros and cons to both!

I agree that it's probably, mostly an economic thing with a tinge of how they were brought up. No matter what your religion is, if you don't have the money, you're not going to have a full time nanny so that you can go participate in non-income earning activities.

That being said, I think it's realistically impossible not to be at least a little bit stereotypical as a human being. We all say we aren't, but we all know that in some fashion, we are. It's also dangerous not to be a little stereotypical sometimes. Would anyone not take the route that doesn't go through a crime infested neighborhood, if they had a choice? Would anyone not lock their doors if they had no other choice? It would be crazy not to, especially with your kids in the car.

Anyway, I wouldn't look down on anyone else, or judge anyone else for how they do things, but it's just a simple question. You're curious. It's pretty simple, though. You are comfortable doing things the way you do them, and they are comfortable doing things the way they do them. There's no right or wrong answer here.

Each person is an individual, and no matter how they were raised, they will do what makes them happy. My parents tried to raise me to be a quiet, domesticated, obedient, non-opinionated woman--but I'm the opposite of all of those things. I have a brain, I know how to use it, I form opinions that I feel strongly about, and I will not be obedient to anyone who isn't at least smarter than I am. I believe in working together, and not in taking orders. I do like to keep a clean house, though, and if I had more time I'd cook every meal--but I'm a single mom and student. Now that I have my daughter, I do want to be with her all of the time, but I know that I need to feel like I'm doing something for me too. Maybe they are involved in charities that benefit greatly from their participation, and they're teaching their kids that there's more to life than what's in the 4 walls of their home. They're showing them that there's a world out there, beyond just themselves. You may have a great family, but with my experience, a lot of times friends are more family than family is.

... the bottom line is... every woman, no matter from what background... was raised a certain way... and that TENDS to be how she then.... raises her own family and how she behaves in her own family.

And, sure, maybe... socio-economic background, may play into that... and how they manage their household and kids. But it is not something exclusive...to a certain culture or religion or ethnic background.
BECAUSE... once you are born and/or raised in this country... MOST people or MOST cultural groups or MOST religious groups... becomes "Acculturated" into their majority culture or assimilated. Thus, it is not an exclusive... characteristic. Because MANY upper level socio-economic groups.... hire Nannies, send their kids to school 5 days a week, and don't work and complain about their kids. Not only Jewish women.
This characteristic... is not ONLY relative, to certain cultural groups.

all the best,
Susan

Hi E., what you said happens to be a big norm where I am at the moment. One mom who had a full time nanny for her two kids, and was a stay at home mom also, started talking to me,saying she doesn't understand us American women. We have two or three children and refuse to get any help with the house chores or babysitting. I told her it's our pride to raise our kids on our own and with regards to house chores, not all of us are like that. If we're able we'll do it, otherwise we'll hire someone to have it done for us. I got your point and know where you're coming from. My parents were exactly like yours. My mom's thinking went like so: "I managed to do everything with three kids. you should too" . But I don't want to. I have other things that I'd like to do things with myself and kids. I don't want to be an at home mom doing the housework all day, cooking, ironing, washing and going to work and then the same thing all over again. We have other priorities in our lives now. I'd like to spend some time on my own to hit the gym or go for coffee or dinner with my girlfriends. I remember my mom at 40-45 I feel she looked a lot older back then than I do at 40. Women today are different than back in the 70's when they were raising us. They didn't really look after themselves as todays modern woman does. Your point was interesting. Happy Holidays

well it depends on so many things. i am also catholic and our backround sounds similar except i am not italian. in the neighborhood i grew up it was mostly italian..many catholics. one of my good childhood friends were jewish. the parents were wonderful parents. the mom stayed home just like my mom did.
it might have something with them being jewish but i think more that they are weathly and our generation seem to be a bit too self induligent.

Just sounds like you are in a neighborhood where that is the norm for them?
I'm not sure about the jewish culture, I dated a boy in high school that was jewish and his family was very nice, well to do, treated me like a super guest whenever I was there, maybe they do cater to friends more than family.. it will be interesting to see the responses. I'm not catholic but was also raised knowing that the wife does the cooking, cleaning, and caring of the children, so that is all normal for me. Having to work an outside job and still do it is the hard part these days. Most dads now step up to the plate and share the responsibility but it's definitely something you do a lot of talking about before marrying them. From the posts I read on here there are way to many women married to men that don't want to help out... just makes me think they didnt DISCUSS the tough issues before having kids.
Wow, I sure went off topic.. sorry, lol :)
Congrats on doing what you are doing, it's the healthy thing for your family.

I normally dont answer these posts but I needed to with yours...you say that this is not a religion thing or a sahm v. working mom thing..but I dont agree. If it wasn't a relious thing, then why mention your religion and your neighbors religion to begin with.

One thing you seem to forget is that what works best for someone else may not work best for you and vice versa. So why ask how people were raised and what the "majority" is unless you feel you are doing something wrong.

If you and your family are happy and healthy, then what you are doing is right!

This isn't a religious matter, it's just the difference in priorities and also, finances. I grew up somewhat the same, with a Mom who stayed home and tended to the kids and house, while Dad worked. Then I moved to the east coast where many people have nannies and housekeepers that take care of those things. I don't waste much time pondering it all, but I have to admit that I often find it strange when I see women with full-time nannies who don't work. Why have kids? I suppose in many cases, the children are better off with the nanny, because I've spoken to these Mom's and they truly have no interest in spending their days with the children, which is why they have the nanny in the first place.

I guess a happy Mom= Happy Family. If nannies and housekeepers make you happy, then so be it. Truthfully if my husband would let me, I'd hire a housekeeper! But he doesn't like strangers in the house going through our things.

I am a SAHM and while there are many days I am clawing at the walls while the kids drive me nuts, there is really no place else I'd rather be, than with them.

Lynsey

there is no right or wrong way. having a nanny for someone whoo does not work means she is able to have some time to herself, taking care of household chores, not being stressed all the time which means pleasant towards kids and others 24/7.
having no nanny means all that plus exhaustion to the fullest.
i could have gotten a nanny years ago. i didn't want to. not because i can do it all but because i don't like strangers in my house. i am not comfortable with people i don't know, messing with my routine. but that is it. otherwise, a cook, a cleaner wow heck year. i think the reason your post was not liked is because you specifically brought up a group of people. that is prevalent everywhere, upper class catholic, jewish etc. in fact it has nothing to do with religion.
the way you were raises is great. but it is not the only way. kids get raised in many ways and 9 out of 10 do great. i was raised by working parents. great childhood. i have not missed out on anything, including home cooked food. there was always dinner prepared from scratch. i am an educated stay at home mom. but this is my way. the other was my mom's way. we both have done well so far.

Wow -they all sound like the suburban housewives in North Atlanta! They're primarily Protestant, but some are Jewish and Catholic. I think your issue is more of a class one. There is a certain group of people all over the place who seem to have children more as accessories than family members. They provide very well for them, but they don't like to spend much time with them; they are quite comfortable financially and it doesn't seem to have a thing to do with religion. Of course if you're living in a primarily Jewish (or other group) area of people from this larger group -it may look more like a "Jewish" thing to you. I know many, many Jewish women who have no nannies, use 1/2 day preschools a few days per week, stay at home or only work part time and live nothing like the way you described above. They are quite family-oriented and spend a great deal of time with their kids and other family members.

As far as choosing friends over family -many people do that. I love my SILs, but they're on the other side of the country. If we all lived in the same city, we would get together frequently, but we all have our own friends, our own lives and our own interests. I love my MIL who is nearby, but I would invite my friends over first any day! When we have parties, we rarely invite family members unless it's on a holiday.

The way I grew up -Protestant in a primarily Protestant area -we visited and had family over a good bit, but my parents and I always had our own friends. In fact it drove my mom nuts that in our small town, many people were so up their family's a**es they acted like they couldn't dare break away and form their own relationships. I mean, family is great, and I've had wonderful times and memories with mine, but I think people need their own friends and I don't think family needs to be included on everything.

My mother was a SAHM who only worked our family seasonal pecan business in the fall and early winter. I was raised to get a good education and do whatever I wanted, whether that meant staying at home or having a career; having children or not having children; getting married or not getting married. My mother liked the idea of me staying at home once I had kids, but she also realized that sometimes it's not always in the cards or the perfect situation for everybody. She always kept a nice house and was a phenomenal cook who took great pride and care in her nightly meals and baking. She often had help come in to clean or watch after me while she got some things done, and she advised me to try to have some situation when I was grown that allowed for a housekeeping service, because there are so many more worthwhile things to be doing than cleaning house!

I think that EVERY culture and/or religion is going to have very different views/beliefs from one another to some extent. It may be very "normal" for the way they were brought up and raised and seems to be so in their social circle. I recently read a book where the plot occurred in the early 1920's and the main character was a Greek woman who had immigrated to the US from Turkey. In one paragraph she mentioned she could tell the ethnicity of the people near her on the boat by the smell. Greeks smelling like feta and yogurt etc... I think it's all relative. Just keep an open mind when passing judgment and try to view things from their shoes. However you may disagree but can still be polite omitting certain opinions from your conversations.

I was raised just like you. The only difference is that my parents didn't go back to church until my neice got baptised. Before that, we only went to church when we visited Grammy. (My parents were mad at the Catholic church, because one of my sisters couldn't pass the entrance test for Catholic school, so that ment that no one could go.) Even so; our family values, culture, and history is deeply rooted in German tradition. (Blood really is thicker than water.) Family and pets come first no matter what. This means you will listen to and trust a family member before you listen to a friend or stranger.

My dad was full blown Catholic...Went to a German Catholic school...Had 9 siblings...and was poor.

My mom went through everything. She was half Jew, half Methodist. Her parents had money, but they weren't rich. She had a smaller family with 2 siblings and 2 step-siblings. Her parents divorced, so she went from family member to family memeber until marrying dad. This ment that she when through all kinds of traditional religions, so she was everything before converting to Catholism.

Me...I went to a methodist church for a little while when I was a teenager. They are even more family origented than the Catholics. It's all about the kids there. They had so many get togethers that you'd think they were all family. I guess they can do that when the church is small. My hubby is an ...I don't know. He claims to be budhist, but doesn't practice it. He believes in God when things go right. He is Chinese. Guess what? What you have discribed as Jewish, is what MIL is like. She never believes family and friends come first...not family. So I'm having trouble with this concept too.