Can Someone Explain This to Me Because I Just Don't Get It

You have to give it time. I've always found it takes a minimum of 6 months to start fitting into a new group, and a year to really become part of the group.

Patience.

As far as the school/PTA, in my experience it's the 5% of moms who have their fingers in EVERYTHING that are the worst! The other 95% are OK....you just have to find them. Because the 5% have shut them out by sighing and moaning now about having to do EVERYTHING and can't understand why no O. else gets involved! These are the helicopter moms who cannot BEAR to break away from their kids and let the kids supply them with the information they need. They demand it by "doing bulletin boards for the teachers (kid's class OR not), Xeroxing 'important papers in the office, etc, etc., etc ad nauseum.
Find the "normal"! They DO exist!

That is very sad. I hate to say it but things will get better with time. I am sorry you are going through this rough patch. I am too far away to help you out. I live in Ludlow MA which is near Springfield. I hope some of the other mom's have some good advice for you. Good luck

I don't think you should use the term "shun" because I believe that really is not what's happening. People are territorial and cautious by nature. When someone new moves in next door you hope for the best and silently fear the worst as you watch this new person/family for awhile before approaching. We see so much drama on the news, seemingly nice people that are killers, thieves, drug dealers, molestors, and the list goes on. Sooooo, people are just not easy to warm up these days until they find out you are OKAY. It takes awhile to prove to people that you arent a nutball I suppose. A few short convo's by the mailbox, a "hiya" at the market, and complimenting other's children when you meet up in the schoolyard. Moms thrive on being told good things about their kids, if you start there you will usually be able to get a conversation going and eventually a friendship if it's meant to be.
You say you are very friendly, maybe you need to be a little more reserved at first and then be friendly later when you actually make friends with people. Being too friendly or too animated as a first impression may be throwing people for a loop. Rather than putting yourself "out there", let them become a little more curious about you, let them approach you instead. Smile, but don't approach and start asking questions of people that dont know you. I know that would bother me. I dont like aggressive, in your face types right off the bat.... they kind of have to grow me on me first ---and that just takes a little time.
You sound homesick to me and until you get over that and embrace your surroundings you probably wont be getting along with anyone, you gotta get over that first. People in your home town cant be that different from where you are now. We are all really the same no matter where in the world we live, seriously.

I've lived all over the country (and several places in the world), and I have to say that (restricting it to the US):

1) TOTALLY regional. In some areas it's like a "race" to be the first person to get a new person "in". In other's it's the "WE'VE all been together since the womb." and in others there is no energy in EITHER direction; inclusive or exclusive. (Seattle is one of those places, btw, it's known as the "seattle chill").

2) Women in general are MUCH more exclusive/competition based (as in you have to look right/ act right/ talk right... with "right" being the way THEY do it) than men. Men are far more inclusive across the board than women are, and in general if they have a problem with you they will
a- TELL you
b- if you "fix" the problem not ONLY is everything just peachy afterward but it doesn't count as a "win" to them (as it does to most women). They had a problem, problem fixed, end of story... not "status" gained by "making" someone else change / it's not a "game"

NOT restricting it to the US:

1 - It's totally regional. Both by country AND by regions within that country, but it's harder to see the fine lines because they're eaten up in the massive culture changes just by being in a different country.

2 - Sex roles change. In some countries women will speak their minds and NOT hold your "acquiescence" as a "victory" in a "power/ status" battle, but men do.

FOR MYSELF (and I'm guessing for most people) there are regions I just GEL with. Places that the customs of those places make me feel happy / relaxed, and places that set my teeth on edge. Places that I'm naturally happy/comfortable with I *always* have *more* friends (not necessarilly better friends). Both because I slide really easily into "acceptable" forms of behavior so more people like me because I "fit in" AND because I'm not sending out ticked off/ uncomfortable vibes so I'm more approachable.

Yes, it sucks. No one knows why people are they way they are.

Just be proactive, throw a themed party and invite some families on your street. Have a Mothers Night Out at a cool resturant and invite the ladies on your street or in your child's class. Start a group like a Book Club or a Craft Group, or some group you enjoy and would like to share with others. Have yoru child's friends over regularly, and ask to meet their parents. Have a mini party for your kids, like a WInter Bordom Buster Party, and make your own invites! Anything, just to get people talking to you or about you (in a good way!) Volunteer! at the school or at the food bank or at a church etc.

Basically just keep smiling and being friendly, eventually people will notice, and their hard hearts will melt. Don't hate people, otherwise, you will be just what you dislike!

I have to say that when I was a newbie, I put myself into volunteer work at the school. It made a HUGE difference in my social life. I am not out going or loud, I am pretty shy at 1st, but this really opened doors for me. People admire you if you are willing to help them or others out. PLUS its a nice thing to do! Also, I had a huge Halloween party at the begging of teh school year, and only 3 weeks after we moved into our home. I invited the entire class of my Kindergarden Step-son. No one knew me cause I was JUST the Step-mom, lol, but after that party, no one forgot me either! :)

"To make a friend, you have to BE a friend." I don't remember who said it, but I think it's true. For you, stop judging what others are doing, because you can't change it. They are reacting to the vibe you put out, the negativity exuding from you. Sure, it would be nice if people always reached out to the newcomer, but the truth is, if you saw 2 new women at a function--- one was smiling, bubbly, introducing herself around, offering to help on commitees, etc., and the other was looking around with a scowl in her eyes, and you just knew she was saying to herself, "It's no wonder I hate people most of the time." Which one would you want to get to know better?

May i make a suggestion? The elementary school our daughter attended had this reputation. I did find a few moms that were cliquish, but the rest, 98% were very friendly.. Many moms were shy or extremely busy (church, children, relatives and charity work.. not to mention their homes and businesses)and involved in lots of things..

We had one mom that was alway grousing about how the moms were not nice and inviting. I was by this time the PTA President and asked her "how SHE could change this, because in my experience, I could only think of about 4 women who I considered, B's.".

She came back with a plan to start a "Newcommers group" for new parents and families at school.

She found other parents to join and help with this welcoming group. It started as a group for parents considering bringing their kids to the elementary school instead of private school. She had information coffees on campus as well as the local neighborhood bakery at least once a month. In the summer she had these gatherings at the school playground.

She matched up the parents with current parents as a touchstone.. they shared phone numbers and emails, so the new families could call and ask about what to expect.

This mom also came up with a "New Family information guide".. it included everything about the school and was handed out each time a parent enrolled their children, even if it was the middle of the school year.. It included this moms name so she could answer their questions..

This expanded to older children's families.. so if you had a 4th grader, those parents were assigned a 4th grade existing parent to guide them on our campus..

I can imagine it is difficult to move. It is difficult to know who to talk with, but, you will have to take the initiative and put yourself out there. Join the PTA and immediately join a committee. Ask your childrens teachers what activities they will need help with in the classroom. Go to the library and ask the librarian, how you can help. Speak with the office staff and see what days or parts of the school year you can assist them..

If you are a member of a church get involved there and volunteer with other groups that also include parents from your child's school. Go to the local library and volunteer there.. you will meet neighbors..

Then have a smile have an attitude that you are approachable. Once your children begin making friends, meet their parents and see if they would like to meet so you can invite their kids over to play.. We cannot depend on others for our happiness, it is up to ourselves to be happy..

I feel for you, and I agree. Not sure why some people are so "clique-ish". I joined a SAHM group when I was one for a very short time (WOHM now) and the women completely snubbed me. They made no attempt to include me in any of their conversations. I found one other new member to talk to. She and her husband came to our house once, it went great, and then I never heard from them again. People are just strange and somewhat rude nowadays. I don't get it either.

I'm sorry you are feeling this way, and I do know how you feel. I'm new to the school system and found it hard to get other mothers to even acknowledge I was standing next to them. I ended being a bit rude and jumping into conversations in order to be heard (in more ways than one) and pushing to make play dates for me kids (and myself). It worked with some people but not a lot. It's hard to be without family. I don't know where you are from, but many say East Coasters aren't friendly. I disagree, but there are pockets of people that just don't know how to be nice. Can you find a book group through your library, or people in a class at the gym, or from your church? good luck to you.

I guess I've been bless then, I've moved to Texas and let me tell you, I've met some of the friendliest people ever. I lived in San Antonio for over 10 years and I met a lot of very friendly people. Not all of them were native to San Antonio either. Even driving they are nice, let you, don't cut you off, well, most of them don't. I moved then to Dallas area, they are friendly, sorry to say, but not as friendly as my San Antonio people. I grew up in Illinois and did move when I was in the 4th grade and had lots of friends after I moved, I was a shy type so I didn't like a lot of attention. Actually now that I think about it, the snottiest people I've ever met are rich people, don't get me wrong, I've met humble rich people too. Every poor person I met would give you the shirt off their back, make sure you had enough food to eat.
Keep your head up and teaching your children right from wrong. Don't let mean people steal your joy. I've never been to Vermont, but I'm sure there are some friendly people their, it's probably just too cold for them to come outside right now...

I'm sorry, I guess I am one of those people. It is not that I mean to be, I am a loner and have a difficult time with approaching people. At church, though I don't seem to have as much of a problem as in other places. Church is where people hug others for no apparent reason at all other than friendliness. I find that I can find someone who looks lonely and just give them a hug every chance I get and don't necessarily have to say anything. I eventually get brave enough to talk to them over a period of several weeks. Some of those people have been people who have just moved to our area and chose our church. Many have come to me years later and told me that if it had not been for my hugs every service they would have packed up and moved back to where they came from because they had been so lonely. They looked forward to my wordless hugs every church service.

I'm afraid there are many people out there who just do not know how to approach someone and start a conversation. It is not that they intend to be rude, some actually stand back and watch you wishing with all their might that they can find the courage to say something to you. You see these people and probably think they are just starring at you. Don't take offense at these people. Instead, if you are looking for friends and you see one of these it might help if you approach them instead of them them approaching you. It could be the start of great friendship.

Sounds like a bit of culture shock going on here. Let me explain.

I've lived in a lot of different places throughout my life--primarily the Midwest, as well as the Northwest, South, and Northeast...9 states in all over my 50 years of life. I've always thought of myself as a friendly person and good at meeting people. My husband grew up in New England and as an adult has lived MANY different places in the country, plus overseas in Jordan and Somalia for a year each, doing geological survey work. I enjoyed doing full-time volunteer work in various parts of the country, soaking up a wide range of experiences that enriched my life.

When we married and I moved back to New England (I was born out here), I found myself to be a fish out of water. Most of the other places I had lived, I had found people to be outwardly friendly. But I couldn't seem to crack the social bubble where we lived in Massachusetts. The fact that I had lived so many places seemed out of place there. It's almost as if people were afraid of me...who was this person who has descended upon us, who wants to get to know us, this person who will probably swoop away as quickly as she has swooped in?

It didn't click until we had moved away from that town to our home of 15 years in NH. Where we live now, there are a lot of people from other places. They have had to learn to feel at home in new places. They have had the experience of being the newcomer. It's not an oddity to be from somewhere else. In fact, it is a place of commonality to be from somewhere else.

In retrospect, there were several things going on for me when we lived in MA. It was a small stable town with not a lot of newcomers. People had been there for generations. They had their friends and family. It's not that they were rude or mean. It's just that they didn't feel the need to get to know me. Their lives were full enough. It was like it threatened their sense of stability for a new person to put a ripple in their water.

For a person who was used to being friendly and easy to get to know, it was a very isolating experience for me. I felt that people were suspicious of someone who had lived in so many places. Perhaps some of them were, but most likely, I suspect it was a matter of them not knowing what to say.

I frequently witness this in my husband's relatives at weddings. They stick to their own. They are more comfortable with the familiar. It's like pulling teeth to go beyond their comfort zone. Shyness can be perceived as snobbiness sometimes. So can reserve. Either way, it can make you feel like an outsider.

My husband says it best when he says, "People all over the world are the same, except in New England." He feels people elsewhere are much more outwardly friendly than those who are native to New England. Throughout his life, he has found that people outside of New England are more outgoing. Having grown up here, he never noticed it. But having lived all over the place as an adult and then returning here again in his late 30s, it was striking to him.

When I first moved here, it was devastating. In retrospect, I realize I had become depressed with so many changes happening at once. For me it was getting married, moving to a new place with no job, no church, no friends beyond my husband, my immediate family hundreds and thousands of miles away. I was in culture shock, big time. This was the first time I had felt so out of place with a move. Prior to that, moves had always been exciting and invigorating for me.

We only stayed there three years. We always knew it would not be a permanent place for us. Truth be told, I probably put up my own walls of protection, knowing we would not be there long-term.

As soon as we moved to Peterborough, NH, we felt at home. We moved here for my job and the setting felt right for raising a family. We've been here ever since and enjoy our lives here.

Living in a small town like ours (~7000 residents) can be wonderful, but it can be very isolating if you don't fit in. I have found that volunteering my time helped me develop friends with similar interests. Being a part of a church has also helped. And, dare I say, counseling did wonders. I now realize I was in severe culture shock and clinically depressed. Counseling became my lifeline back to a healthier existence I was more familiar with.

I continue to meet new people, even in this tiny town. Having lived in larger metropolitan areas many times in my life, I have become aware that in smaller towns, you probably have the same proportion of nice vs not-so-nice people nearby. It's just that each group is smaller by virtue of simple numbers. The trick is to find the group you click with (not clique with). There may be fewer to choose from, but I bet they're there.

When I experience the types of people you mention, I choose not to spend much time with them. I'm friendly but I don't seek them out as my soul mates. I've never been good at the popularity game and don't pretend to be.

I don't have the patience to devote my time with people who take offense easily, who seem quick to judge, who gossip too much, or who are not willing to welcome the person who seems new or alone. I don't shun those who do, but I have better things to do with my time.

OMG! That sounds so New England of me! Or is it? We all have to make choices. And choosing who you surround yourself with is an important part of life. While I find it harder to cut through the surface to get to know people here, it is still worth it. But 9 times out of 10, the people I connect with the best are those who are not native to New England.

Truth be told, I like myself enough to choose to be alone or with my family if it comes down to a choice between cliques and nastiness or being comfortable with myself. So be it. Life is not a popularity contest.

I still think it is a regional thing. Meanwhile, look inside yourself to determine if you are in culture shock or depressed. Attending to those feelings, if there, may go a long way to better handling the New England persona. I've never lived in VT, but I suspect the persona translates well to your New England state as well.

Best of luck. Loneliness is never fun!

I was in the exact same situation. I finally forced myself to trust a few moms a little bit at a time. I had so many blow me off. I have three mom friends at school who I can count on to be a friend. It took at least a year in one case and longer before I felt we were truly friends.

They accept me and even though they all work, they have time to come over for lunch sometimes. They never make me feel like a freak or outcast. If I needed help, they would help me and I would help them.

They are not the moms I picked to try to get to know at first. I started with moms who live in my neighborhood, attend the same church, stay at home, and have girls my daugther's age. On paper, we seemed a perfect match, but for whatever reasons, they didn't want to get to know me.

I took a break from the PTA and focused on helping in the classroom. I also began getting out of my car and talking to other moms at parent pick up.
This broke the ice. I then asked them if they would like to go to the park after school. I resisted the urge to talk about the problems. I forced myself to act positive though inside I was nervous about more possible rejection.

What helped is knowing I was not the only one. These meanies play games with many people. Also, there are moms just like you trying to find you. Hang in there.

I know exactly what you mean.

Can you sign up to volunteer for something at school? Could be a small project where you get to know one or two people well, or could be something larger where you are part of a bigger group, wherever you feel most comfortable and if you are working on something you care about. Most people are uncomfortable in social situations and they do stuff that's rude unintentionally. Others use the school events as a "girls' night out" and cling to their friends.

Take the high road, be positive, and show your kids how to march into a tough situation and turn it around. Also see if there is a Newcomers Club in your town - everyone's in the same boat. Even if some people have been there for a few years, they are usually in it to make others feel welcome. Our Newcomers Club never kicked people out (some do after 5 years if the group becomes too big to administer) but everyone there was very welcoming, they set up play groups so moms could get to know each other, and so on).

Your frustration is understandable but at this point it may be coming off as standoffishness, and people who might be receptive are possibly misreading your mood.

If you are at all religious, you could join a church or synagogue - there are study groups and committees and community outreach groups. Maybe the library has story hours (if you have young kids) or other programs. The Rec Department may have inexpensive sports programs that the parents watch - just ask the parents behind you or in front of you in the stands, "Which one is your child? I'm new and I'm trying to get to know the kids on the team." It will start the conversation going.

Keep plugging! It will turn around!

J., you are upset but I find your frustration funny and I think you have a right to be. Calm down and take a deep breath. Don't hate people, ok!...I think it might be where you moved to. Just consider it their loss. It takes time to get to know someone and the new kid on the block is just that - "not like us"...continue doing what you are doing and don't force it. I am sure in time, in the whole area where you live you will click with someone. One person will be brave enough to step out on a limb and get to know you. It' unfortunate, but people usually fear what they don't know. I wish you the best and I hope in time you don't become one of their "cliques" too.

I understand J. its really hard to go it alone and have no one around. I would suggest trying different activities to get your self out and about. Take an aerobics class, take karate, take a course at your locale college. This way you will meet a more diverse group of people. Dont expect anything right away. If you take a college course when everyone takes a break as to sit with them or try to jjoin in a converstation. Yeah some will be jerks and shun you but others will not. If you need to bring your kids with you try taking some courses at the ymca that way your kids can take a class as well.

i dont know, its just how women are... we arent easy! ive always been better friends with men, they are so much easier. but when you and everyone else is married, it doesnt go over so well when you chat with other womens men even if you both have the most innocent of intentions. ill tell you though, i think i am generally a nice person, but i am not extroverted at all. i dont know if im shy, i dont shy away from people who talk to me, and im fine if i have something to say, but i do stink at small talk. im just one of those people who are just as happy to observe from the sidelines and dont like to really be in the center of things unless i have a reason to be. i can stand next to someone in comfortable silence. it takes me time to make friends, and thats fine. and i have had good friends of mine on more than one occasion laugh and tell me that they thought i was snotty when they first met me because i didnt talk much. so im just saying you might be thinking that some people are nasty when they are really just quiet. give it time. you dont need a million friends, just a few good ones. be yourself, get involved with things that interest you, and then when you do make friends, they will be real friends.

I'm going to have to assume that your abrasive tone is borne out of frustration and is not indicative of how you normally approach the world, because if what you wrote is true to character, then I wouldn't befriend you either. "It's not wonder I hate people most of the time" says quite a bit - I don't think I've thought that way even at my loneliest and most isolated.

So assuming that's frustration talking, just give it time. Contrary to what others have written, New Englanders are not inherently cold or rude, nor are women in general catty, exclusive b*tches. I hate when women talk that way about other women - it's such a betrayal of our gender and not true at all.

There have been a lot of responses with good suggestions about how to meet other people and increase your chances of connecting with other adults in your community - I think that volunteering at school and seeking out a newcomers group, if there is one, is the way to go. As to why people are like this, I would really just chalk it up to being busy. I moved to my town 7 years ago and it took 3-4 years to establish real friendships. My oldest kids are in 7th grade and I am very settled into a couple of small circles of good friends and some larger circles of acquaintances from church, garden club, kids' sports, day care, etc. With work, family, kids, volunteer stuff and all of the things we moms do day in and day out I don't have enough time to spend with my good friends so I'm not going to go out of my way to cultivate new friendships. My younger kids are in first grade and pre-K and there are some moms that I have met through my younger kids who are newer in town who are looking for friendship and while I like them and am friendly and will chit-chat if we run into each other, I'm not likely to call one up and see if we can get together for a glass of wine. So maybe what you're running up against is groups of busy moms who are settled into their own comfort zones and don't have time to be the welcome wagon for someone new.

Bottom line is that friendships take time to develop - be friendly, seek out other women who are newer in town, volunteer, and don't assume that when you do run across a group of "Queen Bees" who actually are mean and exclusive that they represent everyone. Just like in high school, the mean girls are the ones who tend to be very visible but they are a small group and everyone else is just normal.

Jennifier I see you live in VT...I myself as a single mom with 8 & 12 year old children...moved to NH from NJ 13 years ago...no friends, no family etc...I do know exactly what you are talking about..l dont know if its the Jersey in me but I never let it bother me...I wouldnt let your children know your feelings of how you feel shunned persay, for they may look for the worst in people, rather than just being themselves...Im not saying to not discuss things with your children...its always good to know how & whats goin on in their lives...It was my childrens being involved in activities, ie, baseball, that I met my first friend, another mother, who by the way ridiculed me, in jest, the way I talk, being from Jersey. Im am very thin skinned but I knew deep down she was a nice person, we became friends & she introduced me to others etc... I am fortunate to say I have many very good friends in New England...I also made friends at work...Im gathering you may be from the West Coast? I love my friends up here, but have to say my first impression & yes still feell that way ALOT of the time...is NewEnglanders, kind of like the climate, are cold people...especially women! but I really feel its their insecurites & has nothing to do with you...alot of them also have never been out of New England & dont know a thing about the rest of the countries/states people & their cultures....I being from Jersey am sterio-typed all the time! the way I talk, act, etc....but like I said, I dont let it bother me from making friends and try not to judge people (tho sometimes it is hard)....maybe you can find some humor in it, for example when people say oh, your from Jersey (with that condescending attitude) & I reply, dont worry, we hate you too! usually that kinda brakes the ice a bit....I have to tell you I went to a Christmas party, mostly all couples, within the 1st 2 months of living up here, as I was invited by a co-worker who I was friends with...you would of thought I was a leper by the way the woman treated me...now I have to tell you I am not flamboyant or a flashy dresser by any means so it wasnt my looks, but I am very outgoing & realized afterwards, it was mostly all the men who were speaking to me & all the women avoiding me....hence...my assumption....very insecure & lead very sheltered lives...even my friend who brought me noticed & agreed...good luck to you....I didnt ask you how long youve been here but give it some time, just enjoy the VT life with your family & In the process I know you & your children will meet some really nice people & think you will warm up....LOL...to the NewEnglanders :)

I guess, as a mother, I have not really experienced this...... I've met some new moms at preschool and other "events" and have not felt shunned by them......

Have you tried joining a church??? I have been joining to my church since I was about 8 years old. But there are a LOT of new people! So I joined the woman's bible study for a year and met a lot of nice ladies! It's great to be able to go up and talk to these women now, where as, before I would not have.

To be honest......There must be SOMETHING that is turning them away. I was always the "odd man out" in high school but have not felt like that in a long time....... I'm not saying that I don't meet (and know) some nasty women/moms but they are the minority.

Usually I am not one to start a conversation. BUT if someone starts one with me I LOVE to make new friends. I'm just shy until I get to know people.

Join your local mom's club (www.momsclubinternational.org). That will help you make friends. Best of luck!

women just like to be nasty, I dont know why. Its always the same, and its because of insecurities they have. Ask or offer some help, advice, (asking is generally better than offering, and keep it light, where do they shop for groceries or a recipe) something that starts a conversation they will respond to... Ive been lucky enough to make a few fairly close friends, usually through work.

Amen to that! I know what you are feeling. I've felt it for years as well. We are friendly and so our my boys but we feel shunned most of the time. I've tried to make friends with my new neighbors but nothing. Every body is so clicky it's gross! I've got a small circle of very old friends but we don't get together much anymore and we've recently moved into a new area. It seems impossible to make new friends anymore.
I mean most are friendly to my face and send a wave if I wave first but nothing more than that. I invited play days but no bodies getting back to me.
Of course after speaking to some of these new neighbors at the fence line I realized some are interested in gossip so maybe it's for the best. (?)
Sending a hug your way and it's easy to become hard towards humanity.
I really had a hard time during the Holidays. Hoping you will have some kindness from someone soon to give you some hope.
C.

I know exactly what you mean. But you will find a special friend, you really will, it just takes time and in the meantime is there a church anywhere near you? Sometimes they are wonderful places to meet very special people and show an example of what fine human beings are out there. The people who are cold and shun you (and me at times) are just that, cold and not really thinking about anyone but themselves. I know, I know, ignoring them won't make it feel better, but you keep teaching your children the way you are-it really does pay off.

I have to agree with all who have said it's a New England thing. I have moved, on average, every two years my entire life. I consider myself, and have been described by others, as very friendly and outgoing. The statement "you've never met a stranger" has been said to me more times than I can count. I have never, ever had issues making friends with any of my many moves. Until now. We moved to Massachusetts three years ago. I still don't have a single friend here. I wouldn't say people have been rude to me. They are courteous, just not friendly. I have met people and overtly hinted at being invited to their book club, etc. But no invitations have been forthcoming. We have invited several people, from my husband's work, over for dinner and for parties. Some don't accept at all others accept, but never even hint at reciprocating or even getting together (say, at a restaurant) at a later time. I am comfortable with myself and enjoy my own company, but I do miss having a social life. I would love to have a friend to go to lunch with or shopping. Would love to be in a book club, bunko group, or anything where women gather socially. But I have resigned myself to the fact that that's not going to happen. Ironically, we will probably not be moving any time soon and I will have spent the most time here than anywhere else I've lived.

Having said all that... I have to agree with Denise P. I never really found friends in the PTA or organizations like it. I find them filled with people who have incredibly dominant personalities and are, generally, intolerant of anyone with a differing opinion.

My best wishes to you... I hope you have better luck than I have had in making friends. But if not, try to find fulfillment in other ways and be happy in spite of it.

You're not the only one, trust me. I consider myself a friendly outgoing person. The closest friends I have live state's away from me and I also have been "shunned" because of the cliques in my local area. I take my children to school every day and the same women look at me like I'm a weirdo. I hate it but that's them and not me. I don't go out of my way to befriend them. I am polite, say hello when spoken to but I don't need to act snubby like them to be friends with their circle. So that makes me a loner, perhaps, but I am not a snob and I don't wish to be associated with the other snobby women. Yes, women are the worst for doing this. I can show up any day of the week and one of the dad's will talk to me but not the women. My mother always used to say that other women will always be jealous of other women. I think there is some truth to this. Don't take it personally as I have learned to deal/live with it myself.

Very interesting post and lots of responses. I'll add my 2 cents. I grew up in upstate NY and moved to MA for grad school when I was 25 - been here ever since (over 15 years) as I met and married my husband who is from south of boston. All that to say that I never had any experiences with such terrible women, but my little one is only on pre-school so I haven't hit the school years yet. And I am not actively trying to make friends so I might not have noticed. But as a mother who works full time and has a little one, its difficult to make time for anyone outside of my family, so it maybe that the people you are meeting are just super busy? Do you have a dog? I found that when I got my black lab nearly 7 yeas ago, my first baby, I suddenly fell into a whole previously unknown culture of dog owners, who meet at the park for playdates and walks in the woods. SO if you have a dog take him/her on outings to meet people. I guess it depends on what you like to do and what you are looking for, but my point is there are ways to meet people more like yourself - you need to meet them doing things YOU like (which may not be the PTA).

I do have to sy that I've traveled a bit and I agree that people in other places are more outwardly "friendly" but I don't believe that people here are not nice, they just have a different style. I like it.

Staying positive is always helpful - people sense negativity. I personally would not try to establish friendship with someone who appears to be negative and I suspect others share this aversion.

But it sounds very painful, and I wish you the best as you settle in. Good luck, keep us posted!

Hey Jen, sounds like VT is a bit more intense but I felt it here in Calabasas, too. My neighbors were very nice and welcoming but the school moms were a bit tougher. I agree with the comments re the PTA women. They really do think it's a full time job in a corporation and not volunteering. I stay away and do my own thing by helping out in the classrooms of my kids. Don't lose faith you will meet someone that you can relate to and vice versa. I am very choosy with whom I spend time with and even though there are a lot of friendly women that I know I only do stuff with 2 or 3 ladies and I've been here almost 3 yrs.

ITA with previous poster..it is a New England thing. Though I grew up in CT, my parents are both from the midwest, and were naturally friendly to strangers, so I am that way, but people often look at you like you are a weirdo if you try to be friendly with them. Try to let the friend thing happen naturally and try not to take the meanness and rudeness personally

J.,
my dad has a bumper sticker that says " mean people suck" i think that about sums it up.
i dont know why some people choose to act like that. my sister in law says those type of people didnt have proper home training. so true.
its taken me awhile to make good some good true friends. i am the most at peace with myself i have ever been. we are constantly evolving. i have good answers for you..other than i have been in the same situation many times. so when i can i try to make people feel included. if you lived close i would befriend you. keep your head up. mediate i find this brings inner peace, know there are others that understand. also try to do volunteer at a assited living you would probably meet a wholesome group of people that works with the elderly. if you need to talk i am here for you. C.

I hear you, girlfriend!!! I haven't read through all the other responses, so sorry if this is redundant, but your post really hit a nerve.

We're in a similar situation. Moved to northern Vermont from urban Colorado, where I was used to easily making friends, hanging out with others, and generally being social -- whether the other people had kids or not. Not the same culture here at all!

The difference with my situation and yours, however, is that I don't think it has to do with cliques or people being rude or mean. I'm guessing many of the people you've met have no idea what it's like to pick up and move to a completely new area. They may not think about what you're going through. They don't make an effort because they have no idea how lonely you might be.

It will take extra effort on your part (and mine), but it's not because you're a leper. I don't have any advice -- I certainly haven't figured out what to do -- but I can tell you you aren't alone.

Hang in there!

PS. I don't make it down to Burlington very often, but if you're on this side of town, feel free to send me a message and come on over for coffee :-)

HI--
I'm so sad for you---that just sucks! I know exactly what you mean about women being catty and gossipy. I have found a group of girlfriends like yourself--who don't like this kind of thing and make a point of being nice to everyone. They are out there--I promise! Just keep being friendly and eventually it will work out. Or...you could move (like that's really an option, though, right!). When you feel like this just post again--all us Mama's out here will cheer you up!
Hang in there!
J.

My advice will be a little off the beaten path, but I hope you take it. :) Go to the library and take out this book: The Well-Adjusted Child: The Social Benefits of Homeschooling by Rachel Gathercole. It will give you all the answers to your concerns and then some. Even if you never homeschool, it is a great book to read if you have a school aged child! The best book I've read in years.

I'm sorry you are feeling so lonely. I am always uncomfortable being the "new girl" and avoid such situations as much as possible because I am shy.
It's possible the people you are encountering are not mean-spirited, but oblivious. I know when I'm out with a group of friends, even at a PTA meeting, I'm not paying attention to the others around me; I'm busy with my friends and am not really looking for a new one. Perhaps that perspective will help you feel a little less angry, although it won't change the fact that you'll have to put yourself out there.
My daughter started kindergarten this year and so we've started transitioning from playgroup friends from area towns to school friends...that means my friends are going to have to change a bit too. I've tried to notice people I see in multiple places (sporting events, school drop off, library, grocery store) and start by smiling and saying hello. If my daughter is making a friend at school, I make a point of chatting casually with that child's parent at drop off. I have also initiated a playdate at a community setting so the kids could play and I could get to know the mom a little. If we run out of things to say, we watch the kids. :-) Sometimes you'll "click" with someone; sometimes you won't.

Good luck,
J.

I used to love visiting VT when I was a kid. We had lots of family that lived there. My parents considerred buying a house when one of my cousins was moving out of VT to FL. They told my parents that since we were there regularly and the neighbors knew us and the fact that we had the same last name as them that we would be fine. They also noted that in their community if you were an outsider then most of the time you were not accepted. This was about 20 years ago so things hopefully have changed and you have just not come accross your in group yet but be prepared that it could take some time to be accepted by the community.

i'm right there with ya! i moved to GA from Tx 6 months ago. i have joined Weight Watchers, a book club, and a social group thru Meetup.com. do i have friends per se? no but i am honestly trying. for now that's the best thing i can do. i hope that in the future that i will gain a social life here, yet can't force the unfriendly people to suddenly change. you have my empathy!

Yuck. I'm so sorry that people are that way where you live. I have to say that it might be your location bc I am relatively new to where I live and almost everyone has been incredibly nice and friendly. There have been a few exceptions and I tell myself it is shyness in that person (although who knows). Not trying to make you feel bad but perhaps it is your area? Anyway, that must really suck. My only advice is keep making the effort with people and put yourself out there and just keep at it. Surely you will eventually find one or two people you click with and slowly friends will fall into place. Look for other new comers to the area like you! I wish you luck.

I have been here for nearly a year and thus far I have made one half way decent bond with someone from choir. My hunny's bestfriend's since diaperhood's wives/fiances and I do have not even bonded yet. I knew all of the guys before they did (we have been together 6yrs) but for most of those 6yrs we were in another state but they feel threatened b/c I know them all better at least that is what I was told as to why they have a difficult time hanging with me. Really I think it is bs and people are comfy with what they have and do not like to go outside thier box for the most part. Keep an open heart and another will come to you.

I hate being the "new person" because of this reason. Women are very clique-ish and highschool. It takes time and you have to watch your back in the process of belonging.

I had a best friend who had to move to another state due to her husbands job. She moved to a large area in Billings Montana and started going to church. At the ladies meetings she would see a group of ladies standing and talking about something and she would stand on the outskirts of the group and if she knew something about the topic she would eventually make a comment. They looked at her like she was a leper and then they would break up the group, wander off, and then in a few minutes they would be back together in another area of the Cultural Hall. It was so odd, she tested it several times. Finally she started finding out who all the inactive sisters were and come to find out they experienced the same phenomenon. It was so funny! Anyway, they got to talking and soon they all were going back to church and being friends there. She basically made her own group. They grew so much that the leaders divided the groups and they now have their own Ward. Her positive approach to fine her own group caused them to all benefit from it and they are all best friends now.

I think Suzanne D. sums it up...it's a Vermont thing. I hope you can move soon!

I live in VT too, and I have to say I think the people here are some of the friendliest I've ever met. I'm not sure where you came here from, but one thing that comes to mind is that if you came from a big city, like L.A., that could be a part of it. The entire state of VT has a very small-town attitude - it took them over 10 years to allow a Walmart in! A lot of people here are a little wary of outsiders from big cities. There is a famous bumper sticker here that says "Welcome to VT. Now go home". It isn't really meant to come off as a rude thing necessarily, but more as a way of saying "We like our towns small and don't want our cities to turn into big metropolises." They like tourists here, and depend greatly on the tourist industry, but are very resistant to growth. Vermonters are HUGE on local stuff - farmer's markets, locally owned restaurants, festivals/events unique to the area, etc. My advice is for you to immerse yourself in the local stuff. Go to a sugar house in Feb and a cider mill or apple festival in the fall. I've never been to a sugar house or cider mill that was owned by nasty people. This is what these people do for a living, it's a part of VT heritage and they're proud of what they do, so most of them are more than willing to explain or talk about their jobs to anyone who'll listen. Go to farmer's markets and meet the people selling their wares. They tend to be very humble, friendly people. VT is teeming with festivals and events. Hang out at the waterfront. Go for a ride in the more rural areas. Go antiquing. Do some sightseeing. Smile and say hi to people you meet. But most of all, don't TRY. Just relax and don't worry about finding your new best friend today. Just go out and enjoy yourself and I'm sure you'll form some friendships soon. I know you're frustrated about this and it comes out in your post, but I wonder if it comes out in your demeanor as well and makes you less approachable. The other posters had great advice about how to carry yourself, and about getting out there and volunteering or putting yourself in situations where you meet new people. Meeting your kids friends is a great way to meet their parents and form friendships. Most of the friends I've made are parents of my kids' friends. Pick up a copy of Kids VT paper/magazine. It has tons of activities that are going on and all sorts of other resources too. It's free, comes out monthly and can be picked up in the front of most stores (by the real estate books, etc.). It's also online.

Just relax and enjoy VT and your family. It really is an amazing and beautiful state and the people here are very proud of it!

it is actually much easier to be the new "kid" than the new "mom" we have moved several times in my boys lives they just pick up where they left off in school find some new friends that are almost exactly like the old friends and move on. Moms however do not I have four very close friends only two in the city Iive in. I have tried the same as you to be nice and start conversations around here I attribute a lot of it to the fact that I do not belong to the prominent religion and if they dont see you in church on sunday they dont see you at all. I am sorry it is rough it takes a while try meeting your kids mom's when they go to play walk to the door introduce yourself.

I think it matters where you are. Generally. When we lived in the south (KY, TN, GA) everyone was VERY friendly. People treat you like they have know you forever! Even at the grocery store or walmart they just strike up a conversation in line, etc. If you don't strike up a conversation, it's wierd. Now, here in IL, it's a little bit different. People keep to themselves for the most mart. I just met a woman who moved here from boston and she thinks everyone HERE is so much more friendly than there. So I really think its a culture thing (for the most part - there is always an exception to the rule) Just keep being friendly, keep teaching your kids to be friendly and it will pay off. :-)