At My Wits End - Richmond,VA

Temper tantrum? Walk away. Do not engage him.
Time Out? Are you doing it correctly.
You need to be consistent. No matter where you are if there is behavior you don't like, you need to put him in time out. It sounds like he's getting mixed messages. You have 3 children. Is he getting the time he needs with you by himself??
It sounds like he needs time... with you...
YMMV
LBC

I just wanted to say that you've gotten a lot of good advice on this Web site. Choose one suggestion and give it a good amount of time before thinking it hasn't worked. I've watched SuperNanny, too. And, there were quite a few families she's helped that said "We've tried x, y, and z." One of the things that the nanny said was that if you're trying a lot of different things, there can't have been any consistency, which children can see. If you're doing the 3-minute time out, you must be consistent for a longer period of time than, let's say, a week or two. And, yes, it might make you crazy, but stay calm and do not show that you are losing your patience. There could be a case of ODD, but most likely, our children will just push us farther than a caregiver. I like what one parent said about checking to see if this behavior is happening also in daycare and what the triggers are. Journaling does help track patterns. And, boys are always different from the girls. You might have to change your expectations. Also, use this as an opportunity to teach. When he trows the tantrum, as you correct the behavior remind him that he is a member of your family and you do not behave in this manner. Use your words. If he's less likely to cooperate when he's hungry or tired, check your schedule and make sure you're not overscheduling the family. On top of the financial stress, the new baby and the lack of sleep, too much activity is sure to cause a meltdown in everyone. If this continues by your son's next Dr. appt., I'd discuss with pediatrician and at least get it noted in his chart for additional tracking.

My son used to be this to a tee. He's now 8. My daughter 3 does this some times. What we found was that when he really lost it, it had been a while since he had eaten or drunk anything. What I would start doing is during a freak out. I would just walk into the kitchen and pour him a glass of juice or milk, and put a small, dry healthy snack in a plastic bowl (anticipate the tossing!). I would walk back into the room where he was still yelling. Set the snack on the table. I'd tell him loudly once to 'Stop!'. When he would look at me, I'd tell him to come eat the snack and then tell me what was wrong. It worked every time! Soon, I was able to see the starting signs and now I'm able to head them off, most of the time.

Some people have told me that they think I was rewarding his bad behavior. I disagree. I was correcting a problem. Low blood sugar. I was rewarding him with treats. I was giving my child food that his body needed.
Good luck.
M.

I definitely do not have your education and I am not in your situation. However, I do have a 15 month old and an opinion. When reading your question/situation I found myself asking a few things. First, you said that your child loses his temper in an hour long eruption of destruction. There is no way in the world that I would carry on with a three year old for an hour. Maybe you are sitting on the sidelines letting him go about his destruction, or maybe your are actively involved in his temper tantrum. Trying to get him to stop, attempting to intervene, discouraging the behavior, or whatever it is. The way I see it is, after just a few minutes with a toddler the discipline goes from rational to irrational, if you do not accomplish what you set out to with him in those first few minutes, it should end. At least for you. For him it may continue, he may throw things kick and scream, ect... But you should be done. Do not pay him any attention, do not talk to him, leave the room. If he wants to destroy the house he will do it without you. He must be getting what he wants from you or he would not continue. If he is seeking your attention and acceptance he isn't going to get it by doing X. If you "check out" maybe you will get his attention. You can say "If you are going to act like this I am going outside, come find me when you are ready/done." Don't engage him, Don't antagonize him, aggravate him further while these behaviors are occurring. There is no reason to go back and forth with a three year old. You cannot argue or reason with him during an outburst. And if he is going to act this way he is going to do it alone and you won't be privy to it. Tell him afterward that when he acts appropriately you will be there for him/with him. Secondly, you said that often a three minute "time out" can turn into an hour. That is no longer a time out, and arguing over whether or no they stay there for the three minutes is pointless when arguing with a three year old. He cant even remember what started it, what he did, why he is in time out. All is lost at that point. Are you using and doing time outs correctly??? Or at least the way Super Nanny teaches it.... that's the only way I have been taught and I must admit that at 15 months we have not done or have had to use the technique. So take this with a grain of salt. I have also read recently that touch can be very important when reassuring your child and for many other reasons. The author also talks about time outs and using "time in's." Some of the aspects of his idea of time outs I do not agree with but he says that when doing a time out do not remove the child from the area (like some have suggested) because you want him to see what he is missing out on, but pay attention to his explanation of "time in's." Beyond Discipline can explain further. Take what you can from the book, like most, and disregard the rest. Lastly, I would say to make sure he is getting plenty of praise and make him feel unique and special. I do think your time alone with him is important. And regardless of whether you think it is helping, IT IS. He may not be showing it, which may be his way of getting more. "If I keep acting like this I will get more one-on-one time." But it is helping and in the long run it is one of the best things you can do for him, for him it will sink in soon, that mommy and me have our time together.
Good Luck

It wasn't clear whether your son attends day care or nursery school and if he demonstrates the same behavior there. If not, then it is more than likely the issues at home contributing to this behavior. If he does behave similarly outside the home in a childcare or school setting, then it could be something biologically driven. Using your mental health resources, it would be best to talk with someone your comfortable with to figure out the source of his behavioral difficulties and come up with an appropriate plan that fits his needs while balancing that of your family's. Feel free to back channel for any additional suggestions.

You are describing my son EXACTLY. He is a great kid and good at daycare, but became a demon for me shortly after his baby sister was born. It got worse when she was around six months or so and was able to start playing with his toys. I also studied child psychology in college and had a lot of experience with behavioral techniques. I thought my own kids would be a cinch. But NOTHING WORKED. I tried everything and he would just get worse or laugh at me. I think it's easy for parents who have not had a kid like this to suggest all the usual stuff that normally works. But I think you just have to remember it's a phase and he (and you) will get through it. Try to have an abundance of patience, close your eyes, count to 10, give him a little more love and hugs whenever you can, without rewarding his negative behavior. Pick your battles. It will get better. My baby is 14 months now, my son turned 4, and his behavior has gotten a lot better. Hang in there!

does he get enough excersize. maybe he needs a walk or something outside. can he run around in the yard. remove everything from the house he can destroy and next time he acts crazy ignore him, he's only doing it for attention anyway. also i know you dont agree with spanking but some children only listen when they know thats what is coming. it doesnt have to be hard or often but on rare occasions its needed to get the point across. good luck.

I do believe in spanking as a last resort. And it sounds like you have tried everything else. Pain is an excellent teacher. "No pain, no gain". All people (adults and children) will modify their behavior to avoid pain. The Bible says spanking will remove foolishness from a child. Be firm yet kind. Never raise your voice or loose patience. I never spanked my children after the age of 8. By then you can reason with them. Your children must respect your authority and not be allowed to control the home or destroy the peace of others in the home. AF

E.,

I am a strong believer in Supernanny. My boys are now 7 and we've hit a really nice rhythm when it comes to everyday things and behavior but believe me, it was not always like that. Anyway, when we were in the midst of our behavior hurricane (very similar to what you are describing, but my guy was 5), I happened to be watching supernanny and she was dealing with a child who fit this description as well. Bottom line, when it came to time out, you pick a spot (the same each time), you tell the child if the behavior continues the he will go to time out, when the behavior continues, put the child in timeout while only saying "You are not allowed to do x, you are in time out". When the child gets up, immediately put the kid back in time out WITHOUT saying a word. Yes, this could take an hour, yes this could drive you insane. Yes, it will seem like it will never work but you need to continue to put him back on the time out spot and maintain your silence. She explains it and it is just sooooo true that when we talk, we engage the child and that often escallates because they treat it like everyother time, they whine, they yell, they get agrressive, etc. Just keep putting the child back.

One thing I've been told over and over since I had the boys, that anytime we try to change a behavior, it will get worse before it gets better. I swear that has been true and true enough to make me want to chuck the child out the window ;-)

Keep at it for the time out purposes, no matter how bad it seems, your consistency and lack of engagement will get thru to your son and it will work. While your trying this different approach to time out, think about this....is he bored, is he jealous of the new baby? Does he have structured play time, does he get one on one mommy time? These are all things to consider. In my house and what supernanny keeps preaching (I hate to keep using her as a source, but she's just so common sense and just so right), structure and organization helps young children. When my boys were just a couple years younger, it got crazy in the house if I said to "Go downstairs and play". You would think they'd be ok to play in a room full of toys, but of course, it never worked out so smoothly. But when I took them downstairsk, got each one playing with a toy of their own, I could slip out (upstairs) and finished getting dressed or whatever. You are frustrated, but now is the time when you need to stop and consider a few new things. As the professional you are in your field, I'm confident you know these things, but sometimes it does help to hear it again.

Good luck,

Julie

This seems like a response toward a new baby in the house. Maybe try to focus on letting him help more with the baby? For example, if the baby fusses, instead of going right over to the baby, ask your 3-year old to bring the baby a snack or toy, make faces, play peek-a-boo, etc. If he feels like the baby is more his, rather than yours, he might loosen up some of his anxieties about losing some of your attention. Have you had any luck opening conversations about his tantrums with him? Has he explained that he feels like he is not getting enough attention? Have you talked about "cold pricklies" and "warm fuzzies?" Maybe remind him that tantrums give both you and him "cold pricklies" whereas giving gifts or giving you a light rubbing on your back gives both you and him "warm fuzzies." I've found those catch words have been helping me explain about positive and negative attention lately. Maybe help him find a place to sit in the house when he needs attention -- tell him, "find a book, a bell, and come sit here when you need attention." Then tell him you'll be there as soon as you can, and really try to make good on your promise.

I would get rid of the timeouts and go back to the positive discipline stuff, especially if it worked for you before. I think timeouts sometimes reward negative behavior with attention, in some way, and it seems like that is working against you. I think this is about transitions, and he'll work through it. Good luck!

Dear E.,
I can relate somewhat. I have an 8 year old daughter and a five year old son. My daughter did not have the same temper that my son has had. At nearly six, he's still working on some things such as yelling (losing his temper) at slight things. OK so here is my suggestion. I have no idea whether it will make sense or apply for your situatrion, but it's what came to my mind when I read your description. Maybe your son would respond to you offering him your open arms, a lap to sit on, and a sympathetic expression. Try that, and say "come here sweetheart" or whatever you call him. He may come to you and calm down a smidge, giving you a chance to say, "tell me what's wrong, OK" and if you keep your voice calm and whispery, he may lower his voice gradually, and let go of some of his anger. He may be better able to verbalize what's eating him. Even if you know exactly what he's upset about, do this anyway, because it could give him an alternate way to express it. If he gets calm enough, you can slip in a comment, very gently, "see, isn't this better than yelling" coupled with lots of comforting physical contact. The n once the situation is calmed down you and your son can perhaps try to work the problem out - he may be more open to compromise. At least he'll know you love him no matter what. I know this sounds like the very definition of coddling, and maybe it won't work, but it has worked well for me in some situations. I wish you good luck.

sounds like the terrible 2s have hit in the 3s. The book 1-2-3-Magic may help. we use it with our kids. My daughter was a lot like your son with the tantrums. i found leaving her in her room alone until she calms down and ignoring helps (and could take 1-2 hours at that age). The happiest toddler on the block was also recommended to me. good luck.

Hi

Is it possible to do a time out somewhere where he cannot get up and walk away from? Like in a crib/pac n play or do you have a room where there is nothing of interest to him in there like toys that you could sit him in and shut the door so he cannot get out. A lot of it will be his age , I found 3 a horrible age for temper tantrums and playing up/outbursts etc , but also could be a little jealousy towards the baby , I found my middle child was a little jealous when number 3 arrived (she was 2 1/2 at the time) and then when baby was on the move and needed more attention we got the jealousy all over again!

All of what you are doing sounds good , you need to be firm and consistent with whatever punishment you choose , it is hard I know but it does get easier , my middle one is now almost 4 and she is a lot better than she was at the beginning of the year , I believe that a lot of it stems from being the middle child aswell , when you think about it the eldest is the only one that get's all the attention as they are the first to do everything , the baby get's a lot of attention as they always need feeding , or a diaper change so being a middle child in my opinion is quite hard and this is why they act up a lot.

I don't really have any solutions for you , this is quite normal and as frustrating as it is you just have to ride this phase out and be sure not to let any bad behaviours go without punishment.

Good luck

K.

Hi E., Just wanted to say I feel for you...dealing with this kind of behavior is so difficult when you have a baby and another child to deal with. And I'm in mental health, too and sometimes I'm surprised when I find myself so frustrated and don't really know what to. Anyway, I wanted to add after I read the last comment, I would keep the approach really positive if at all possible. Comment on every behavior you see that you like - make no good deed go unnoticed. Make sure time out is short and has a predictable pattern. You make a request, give a warning, if not followed, time out for 3 minutes. If he's quiet for most of the three minutes, time out is over. then say to him, do you know why you had a time out? Make him repeat it. I have them say sorry for whatever it was and say it won't happen again.
I'm also a fan of sticker charts. Not only because it helps them see when they're successful, just the fact that you took time to write down the most important goals...Keep hands to self all morning...or Did what mommy asked in the morning before school. Short, sweet, and positive, and then they get the sticker. After maybe 5 stickers I let them pick something from a grab bag of stuff from the dollar store.
Good luck, and it will get better!

E.,

Your educational background and mine sound very similar. Additionally, I too am the mother of three - 5, 22 months, and 4 weeks. I, also like you, do not believe in spanking, which has worked for me so far. However, the 22 month old is extremely strong-willed and has a temper. Time-outs are very time-consuming and require a lot of energy on our part. You probably know all of the techniques that I do given your education. Since he has the ability to behave in school, these are behaviors he can control.

I have 3 thoughts:

1. When did these behaviors begin? How has he adjusted to having a younger sibling? Do you think any of this is linked to a resentment towards you for having a baby and/or jealousy of the baby?

2. I don't know what your temperament is like but you probably know that you can have all of the techniques but if you don't have the attitude with them then they are no good. My sister's 3 year old son is a very demanding, difficult child. Much of what you describe sounds like him. He is great for me, however, and does well in preschool. He saves these behaviors only for his mother. I taught her several things to do with him, but nothing worked until I brought it to her attention that she is too passive. Her methods worked for her other two children but he was too strong-willed and smart. When she stopped showing and expressing that he was wearing her down and began interacting with him in a more assertive, confident manner, he did improve.

3. Have you ever tried the contract system? It worked really well for my 5 yr old when she was going through a difficult phase. I use it for my child clients and help the foster parents of my clients set one up at home. I have seen it work well for children who have many behavioral difficulties. In case you are not familiar:

Have a blank at the top of the page for the child to write his/her name (or you write it). Read to the child what you wrote/typed on the top of the page - something like: "I am a great child. I want to behave for my parents. I agree that I will do the things on this page if I do not behave." It should read how he will understand - just make it appropriate for his age and maturity.

I use excel to make a chart but you can write it however you want. The point is to identify specific behaviors that are problematic then have a consequential chore for each behavior. Given his age, I would do two or three at most. For example, if you are having a problem with him throwing things when he is angry. Talk to him and show him what he can do when he is angry to appropriately express himself (I know, you are probably laughing at the thought of him appropriately doing anything!) Write/type "Thowing things when I'm angry" under the title, "Behaviors to Improve". Next to it, under the titlem "Consequences", will be a chore that is age-appropriate. Try to pick something that he would not like doing. For example, my 5 yr old loves to muck our horse stalls so I can't use that as a consequence like I do for my clients. If you think about it, you can probably think of some type of work that he does not like doing.

The point of this system is that it is a contract that they sign and agree to. You are not the bad person if they must carry out their consequence. Yes, it takes some time, but it works and I have seen it work with 2 yr olds. It is great for teaching self-discipline, self-control, consequences for actions, responsibility, and confidence. Another example, we had a teenage relative of ours live with us for 3 months last year. He came from a home where there were no demands on him so he could do whatever he wanted, but at the same time, he was abused. He was very difficult when I told him to brush his teeth or bathe every night. In an effort to give him some kind of independence but enforce what was expected of him, I created his own contract that hung on the fridge. If he did not brush his teeth on his own, without me reminding him to do it, he had to scrub the tiolets upstairs. The first two days I asked him if he had brushed his teeth and reminded him of the chart before he cleaned the tiolets. AFter that, I never said a word. I would hear him curse under his breath when he realized he had not brushed them then I saw him clean the tiolets. This was him agreement - I never said or did anything at this point. This took one week then he never forgot to brush his teeth again.

IF the child refuses to abide by what has already been discussed and agreed upon, the child does nothing, loses all privaledges until he/she complies with the contract. It takes patience at first but it will work.

I hope this helps! Good luck. I hope you find an answer soon so you can be the mom you enjoy being.

Your mention of your son's allergies reminds me of testing sessions I endured for other sensitivities, mostly synthetic smells. In a room of 12 testees at a time, one or two were usually kids. A few drops of some chemical solution under the child's tongue could literally move a kid from calmly coloring on the floor to screaming, weeping, or bouncing off walls in a matter of minutes.

I have rather strong mood swings when exposed to all scented products, cleaners, fabric softeners, air "fresheners," etc. It's hard enough for an adult to handle these brain changes. A toddler would have no chance. It might be worth checking out, starting perhaps by eliminating all possible toxins from his environment.

First it sounds like he's tired. I would look at his sleeping and make sure he's going to bed early enough (around 7pm) and taking naps regularly)

Try these two books by Kevin Lehman, he writes from a biblical standpoint, but if you are not a believer, you still may get something from his books to help you.

Have a New Kid by Friday: How to Change Your Child's Attitude, Behavior & Character in 5 Days by Kevin Leman

2. Making Children Mind without Losing Yours by Kevin Leman

They are both on amazon.com