Appropriateness of Material Shown Without Parental Consent

The children are minors, and therefore, parents or legal guardians are the only ones who can give express, written consent if they want their children to view this material.

A public school allows this? That principal is just asking for trouble.

J. F.

I don't think that group is sending a positive message. Though, at 12 she likely already has an opinion.

Sit down with her and ask what she thinks, ask if she agrees or disagrees and if she was to attend the event or not. I am pro-choice and in a lot of cases I think abortion is the responsible choice to make, however I know my daughters must make their own choices.

What is this nonsense? I'd be angry too unless there was a similar group there to offer the opposing view on how it's none of our business to judge women who choose abortions for the myriad reasons they do. But to be honest, DURING SCHOOL I'd rather there was some sort of cultural art event instead. Or historical one. Or math one. Or science one. Or foreign language one. Or anything EDUCATIONAL in school besides Christian anti-abortion groups. Sigh.

If this is a public school, then this is already pretty much decided case law. I would contact your local chapter of the ACLU or the Anti Defamation League immediately. This is both inappropriate and COMPLETELY illegal. It is illegal for religious groups to meet in public schools during school hours.

http://archive.adl.org/religion_ps_2004/facilities.html#....

ILLEGAL no matter what the content being presented. It is completely wrong for children to have to feel singled out for not participating/going outside during THEIR school day because some religious people are intruding into their public school.

ETA: For all the posters who would not be upset - how would you feel if the organization were promoting a religious opinion different than your own? What if it were an Islamic group promoting wearing of the burka as a way to avoid sexual violence? A Jewish group promoting following of the rules against sex during one's period or on various holidays. A group that believes that late term abortion should be performed whenever there is potential for a birth defect that would impact the fetus's quality of life it were carried to term?

This handbook has some good info:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=...

It's the FCA handbook. If there is an activity period during the school day, then as a student-run organization, FCA is allowed to meet during that "non-instructional" time, the same as any other student organization.

One of the key points though is that the organization has to be *student run* and parents/outside adults cannot participate and teachers or other school staff can only participate to monitor the students.

So...who arranged for the film? Who obtained it and presented it? If it was just students, then there is really nothing you can do other than encourage your daughter not to attend because the school doesn't have any say in the content of the meetings and prohibiting content could be seen as an infringement of free speech. However, if there was an adult involved in selecting and showing the film, providing content for discussion, then either a) a teacher is being inappropriately involved or b) another non-school adult is being inappropriately involved, in which case the club is no longer a student-run organization and CANNOT meet during the school day.

The purpose of FCA is to give a positive rah! rah! "Thank you Lord" let's all say a prayer before the football game outlet to student/athletes who want to express their Christian beliefs with like-minded peers. It sounds like whoever is running this group is going WAY outside of the boundaries of the group's mission and that perhaps there is inappropriate adult involvement.

If I were you, I would find out who the adults involved are and then see what action is appropriate...if it's a teacher or coach who selected this as a topic for discussion then you have to let the school know that they are "promoting" religion in school and if it's someone else, you have to let it be known that they are acting as a community group instead of a student-run group and either need to meet outside of school or change to student-run and scale back the group's mission to what it should be, which is not a pro-life propaganda group.

i'd be furious.
my son went on a field trip in elementary school. i read the consent form, for him to go to an 'outdoor activity camp' for a day of fun. at the last minute i got the day off and went along. and discovered that the 'activity camp' was a raving conservative christian organization that wound the day up with a skit of 'sinners' being whipped out of town while the bar was pulled down and a church erected, and strong implications of hell for 'sinners' like homosexuals and women who had abortions. i was LIVID and went to the principal, who seemed genuinely puzzled that i had a problem with it. i wrote the BOE and got a tepid excuse for an apology, and a sniffle that from now on the kids would have no fun ever again, thanks to me.
if this sort of thing is going to take place at a public school, parents MUST MUST MUST be fully informed. don't let this go.
khairete
S.

I think you have to separate what the beliefs are of the overseeing Christian denomination, and what's appropriate to show to kids of a certain age. I read the comment below that said it's well known that Christians oppose abortion - that's simply not true. It depends on the denomination. (Same goes for same sex marriage, for example - Christians are not monolithic in their beliefs. Neither are Jews or Muslims.)

You need to find out what the message/mission is of the group. Then you need to find out what "Life Line" is - is that a separate group? Within the school or outside? Does it have a pro-life mission and they are trying to get kids involved?

Are you kidding me that they are discussing late term abortion and showing films about it, and parents aren't aware? What is the kids' understanding of sex, pregnancy, biology, etc.? Who authorized this film and discussion?

Since this is a public school, I'd start with an immediate and serious conversation with the school principal or vice principal as well as the advisor of the group. Exactly WHO showed this film and approved it?
I'd also forbid my child from attending until I found out more about what the group does outside of school. Are they recruiting kids, for example, to participate in demonstrations outside of women's health clinics that may or may not perform abortions? If this group is representative of your religious beliefs, that's up to you. But if they are recruiting kids who want to be accepted - which is a big priority for 12 and 13 year olds - I'd be having a very serious talk with my child about interest groups, activities, and what you consider to be a "positive message".

In my view - as well as the view of the Constitution - religion does not belong in public schools.

I would be pissed.

I get that this is an optional thing that they can choose to attend or not... But it shouldn't be up to the KID whether they attend or not... It should be up to the PARENT whether their kid attends. They could easily handle it by sending home a flier outlining what the group will be doing, and require a parent's signature before allowing the child to participate.

I have absolutely no problem with them teaching my child facts... But when they try to teach THEIR PERSONAL moral views as "right"or "wrong" then my momma bear comes out.

If they had simply given risks of abortions, abortion rates, etc. I would be a bit irked at the subject matter (and I am very pro-sex education in the classroom... This just goes over the line a bit.) but I would likely not make any waves... The pushing of personal agendas here I what gets to me and I WOULD be in the principal's office the next morning. Depending on how they handle it (like notifying parents about what the heck is going on in their classrooms...) I would either let it go, or talk to a lawyer about the ramifications of them ignoring laws that have previously been put into place regarding this type of situation.

Please clarify: Is this a private, religiously affiliated school? A Catholic school or conservative Protestant school? I ask because I can't see a public school allowing this group to meet there as a school-sponsored activity during the school day. I feel sure the group must be the Fellowship of Christian Athletes -- does that sound right?

If this is a public school, well, they are out of line, and this would require some investigation to see why this happened in the school day. This group does meet outside school hours in some schools, I think, but during the school day seems strange. I would question whether the school (again, if it's public school) knows the content that's being presented and whether it's age-appropriate. If the school says "We're within the law to allow this group during school hours," and you have an issue with it, tell your child not to attend again.

If this is private religious school, parents know that whatever the school's basic beliefs are will end up being presented to the kids in many forms. Enrolling your child there means you give implicit consent to their religious and social teachings being presented to your child.

If this is private religiously based school, I'm not as sure what the problem is unless you feel your child was too young to hear about abortion yet, or the presentation used graphic images or language, or -- this would be the big sticking point -- you object to the idea that abortion is never an option. If you object to that, and the school teaches something you don't believe, reconsider whether your child should be schooled elsewhere. Even if your child is exempted from these specific Fellowship of Christian Athletes meetings, she will encounter this again repeatedly over the years there. That's fine if you have her in this school to get this specific faith's perspectives and you share them.

You could attend the next one of these meetings yourself. You could also talk to whoever is the faculty adviser for the group and ask to be informed about what was covered. Is the issue, for you, that the topic came up at all for kids her age, or that it was presented in some graphic way? Not clear from the post.

I don't know what the Life Line is but it sounds as if it might be a protest, or an activity handing out information, or possibly a presence outside an abortion clinic--? It seems to be related to interacting with women who are considering abortions. Find out the specifics from the school or the organization, rather than your child, because if you child wants to go, you really need to decide if you are OK with it or not. I would at this point be more concerned with the fact "they invited everyone to participate in the Life Line they were doing in a couple of days." If you, and she, are behind it, then let her do whatever it is, and even go with her. But you do need to know what it is, and ensure that there was not pressure put on kids to attend or do something that may be a problem for you, or too much too soon for her.

I would want to know more about the material presented to my child, and how graphic it was. At our schools, we get notified that sex ed is coming up, what will be discussed, and there is a parent meeting to go over the material prior to the kids seeing it and giving us time to ask questions and/or opt out. I would prefer more information upfront for these topics. I would talk to the leader to see what else they had in mind for in-school presentations.

I would talk to my child not only about the topic at hand but if the overall group's beliefs meshed with my own and what my child thought about the whole thing. I once attended a VBS that had a night that they showed a movie (not really intended for younger kids, but I sat through it anyway) about The Rapture and in this presentation, there were beheadings. Really bothered me for years even though my mom and I talked about it.

Something you should talk to her about is that she's entitled to her own beliefs, even if the group is doing x and y. She should line up, for example, if SHE believes strongly in that message vs just what everyone else is doing. Kids often see black and white in issues that are shades of gray (around 16 this is exceptionally true). Sometimes they need to be reminded that there are many POVs and she should thoughtfully consider what she experiences and hears in her life.

If the group's additional materials or political agenda do not fit with your preferences for your child, you can talk to her about no longer attending and why.

Seriously?
Do what you want bit there's no way my kid would be going to a bogus "Christian" group meeting like that.

Updated

Seriously?
Do what you want bit there's no way my kid would be going to a bogus "Christian" group meeting like that.

Wow. Yea, I would be really upset about it. While it is a Christian organization and with that, I would expect them to promote Christian values. However, I don't think that material was appropriate without parental consent.

Given that it was done at a public school, I would be having discussions with the principal about the content, given that it is during school hours on school property. I have to wonder if the school was even aware it was going to occur.

I would also ask where it, and every other like group, is documented what the organization is about and what the kids will be doing as part of the group(s). If it isn't thoroughly documented, it needs to be, so that no other parent, or child, finds themselves in this situation again.

As it seems others have said, because it is said and done, the best you can do is se it to kick off some discussion with DD.

Good luck and let us know what happens!

so if it is an opt in or out and you don't like it then have her opt out. I would not have a problem with this as we start talking about sex, pregnancy, contraception etc early with our kids. as we don't want them learning things on the playground. we would prefer that they get actual information. what is it that you have a hard time with in the group. that they are advocating no abortion? or no sex or that they are talking about christian things on public school grounds? or that they didn't get your permission? as kids get older the things that need to have your permission will get to be less and less. its hard fact but its true.

Wouldn't bother me in the least. Opens up a dialog with your kids, don't you think?

There are a lot of things taught in public schools that I don't like but my kids know my feelings on the subject and the discussion allows my kids to form their own opinions.

So this is a free period with more than one choice in groups. So the children choose. I have to wonder about some of the answers. Are people so unsure of their teaching their kids that they actually think some group can change their whole moral view? Apposing information either shows you you were wrong or helps you appreciate your view. Is there really such harm in that? By middle school your kids should have a pretty good idea who they are.

It wouldn't bother me. My youngest is 11 and we have already discussed abortion as well as many other controversial topics many times. I would definitely not let her protest for or against abortion however.

I would be pretty pissed off. With all the other positive messages and things they could discuss and do, this would not be something I would be ok with. It's just too controversial and should be a topic discussed at home with parents first.

I would be concerned that this is going on within school hours, but if it's a group of choice, not incorporated into the regular curriculum, that's probably how it's allowed.

I would suggest that you discuss what your daughter learned there in terms of what some believe and what you personally believe. Then, have her find a new group to join, since it sounds like this one is much more conservative in its beliefs and teachings than your family is comfortable with.

I know those teachings wouldn't gel with our family's beliefs, but I'd use it as an opportunity for discussion at home.

It's a Christian organization. If you send your daughter there then they will probably talk about these kinds of things. You didn't say how old your daughter was. If she is a teenager then I wouldn't have a problem with it because I have already talked about this kind of thing with my daughter. It is well known that Christians are against abortion. And there are a lot more people in this world that have survived botched abortions than many of us know about, because its not talked about much. It will be a learning experience for her. If your beliefs are different than what she was exposed to at the group, then you don't have to send her back.

A few years ago my kids had the chance to go to go to Camp Allegheny, it's run by the Salvation Army. We're Unitarian Universalists, each of my kids has found their own spiritual path, and their beliefs are still forming and even differ from each others'. One of my kids was yelled at for misbehaving and was told he would be going to hell for <insert naughty behavior here>. It was shocking, but hardly traumatizing (since he doesn't believe in hell) *sigh* Although I'm sure he complied with whatever was being asked of him, it wasn't the fear of going to hell, being yelled at was enough.

The thing is, I don't have a problem with my kids being exposed to beliefs that are different from mine, I want them to USE their brains and decide for themselves. I am staunchly pro-choice, my kids know this. We have talked with the older three about abortion. They would not be shocked by the material presented to your DD, but they would feel totally duped, having attended thinking it was a fun social group with a positive message. Instead it's a discussion/lecture showing one side to a very controversial topic that may or may not be age appropriate for a 12 year old.

Yes, I would have wanted to be notified, but that is kind of a moot point now. If I were you, I would use this as an opportunity to let your DD decide if she wants to continue going to the meetings. This is a time in a young girl's life when her morals about sex and reproduction are cementing. Puberty and menstruation are in the front of their minds, this is a very important time to focus on those conversations with her.

Sounds like CCD classes when I was a teen, we were Catholic. TThese are religious classes held for middle school/high school students on Wednesday nights.

They would talk about Abortions, Premarital sex. Gave out a lot of misinformation. I was not pleased when I read "Our Bodies Ourselves" and realized, maybe a lot of what they had told us, also was totally not true. Ask the school about what other subjects will be covered so you can speak with your child about your feelings and beliefs with these subjects.

It was presented very matter of fact, so we did not question what we were seeing or hearing. I do not recall my mom freaking out, instead we spoke about what was said and what my thoughts where and her thoughts were.

But we also had a very open relationship. She did not shy away from any subject.

Wow, I'd be upset. The kids DO need this sort of education because kids this age ARE GETTING PREGNANT and being faced with the ability to go to a clinic and get an abortion without the parents ever knowing.

So I'd find out how they were able to show this without parent consent. The school may not realize the organization didn't have your permission.

I'd also let the program adviser know this wasn't something you wanted your child exposed to and to get your permission next time. This might be the stuff they do in this program, if you haven't read up on it or if you signed a permission slip for her to attend it might be in their paperwork that they do this.

CFA is a fairly conservative group. If your kid is involved in a conservative Christian group, certain subjects are going to come up.
Considering that kids that age can and do get pregnant, I think they have a right to express an opinion on the subject.
I also think that they have no business trying to make that decision for anyone else, or influence anyone else's decision.

Maybe they are renting the space from the school. Several churches rent school space on weekends.

Why not just stop your daughter from attending rather than try to stop the whole show?