Angry 10 Year-old Son

That sounds really hard for everyone! Just happened to come across this article today that might give you a different way to see things: http://www.empoweringparents.com/Calm-Parenting-Anger-Man...

First, please don't tell him CPS could take him away if he ________ - anything. I'm a former CPS worker and I hate the mentality from kids who are scared of CPS - because they really shouldn't be.

Second, my advice is to see a therapist for him. A therapist is different from a psychiatrist. A psychiatrist, by occupation and education diagnoses and prescribes medications for mental health issues. It's not their job to talk or do behavior modification. A therapist, on the other hand, is trained and employed to do talk or play therapy with kids about what they are thinking and eventually, changing thought patterns and behaviors. A child therapist should involve you and the father in some sessions and always keep you entirely updated on whats going on (and vice versa.) They can advise you, based on their work with your son, appropriate ways to respond to his anger so that you are not doing more damage. I should add that if your area has a child therapy kind of center - many also have psychiatrists on staff as well - that way both can be in touch with one another and working on conjunction with each other. This is what you should consider for your child. Good luck to you!

This sounds a lot like my youngest. Hot to cold in milliseconds flat. But my youngest is only 7. He will shout at the top of his lungs and scream and holler whenever things don't go his way. He is mean to his brothers and is the total opposite at school.

We try to get him to get as much rest as possible- he is much worse when he is tired. Other than that, we watch his diet very closely. I refuse to put my kids on meds, so we are on an all natural diet- no artificial anything. It does seem to help control the spikes in his personality, but not completely.

We do talk to him about appropriate behavior, being respectful. We have taken away all privileges, etc and that helps for a little while- him throwing fits about not being able to do what he wants not withstanding.

I really have no answers for you, just know that you are not alone. Your other boys will get older and defend themselves. I know, not a real answer. My oldest sometimes thinks he is a parent to his younger brothers and tries to correct them, tell them what to do etc, and DH and I have to call him down. All the time. I think it is an older sibling thing.

I would work hard to try and find a reliable therapist- maybe a psychologist instead of a psychiatrist. They cannot write prescriptions, so that will not be their first line of defense.

Good Luck

How long did you keep him on his medicine?? My sister is bi-polar, ODD, among other things. It takes a good while for her medication to start working. It does knock her out sleepiness wise, at first. It's really misinformation, if you've been given the impression medications work right away, and you see a huge difference right off the bat.

B., you need to take your son to a psychiatrist. You can't afford to not. If your son harms one of your children, you could lose all of them. CPS does not look fondly on parents who put their children in harms way...even in your situation...where it's another child, and not at all the parent. I saw it with my own sister. My parents got into big trouble when I was little, because my sister hurt me. YOU are liable for your son's behavior, and he's a ticking bomb. CPS was not happy with my parents only trying one child counselor. They said they were not taking "all precautions" to keep us safe. My sister was awesome in public, and when she got home...it was awful. As she got older, it was terrifying. I'm speaking from the view of your other children. They will live in fear, I can guarantee you that. They could likely begin to resent you, for not protecting them. It WILL get worse as gets older. Especially, the closer he creeps toward puberty.

Not all psychiatrists are created equal, and it might take a while to find the right one. You must keep looking. This is a dangerous situation, that very likely will not end well. I will tell you, that my parents had to take my sister to a live-in therapy center for a few months, for intensive therapy, and to find the right solutions or meds. It was the most peaceful months of my childhood, and I began to wish she could live there. I'm not saying that will be your solution, but drastic measures do need to be taken, at times. Please keep hunting for a psychiatrist that can help you. Don't stop until you find one. Your family is on very shaky ground. I've been there.

In the end, it was a combination of medications that have helped here. I do not know the exact cocktail, but one was a mood stabilizer. They would try one medication at a time, and it just wouldn't hold up. She will be medicated, for probably the rest of her life. BUT, she can also function and live a good life. Without the meds, she turned to drugs and many other terrible things. I am so thankful, someone finally found the combination she needed. It took many different psychiatrists, before she finally found the one that helped her correctly.

P.S.
In he in fact does have ODD spanking (or beating his a**, as someone so wonderfully suggested) will backfire big time. Violence begets violence. Especially, with children that have ODD.

I have dealt with oppositional defiant disorder. I suggest that in addition to medication that it would help for him to see a counselor so that he can learn ways to handle himself without all the anger. The counselor can also help you learn new skills to deal with your son.

Because the medication makes him sleepy I suggest that the dose is either too high or this is not the right medication for him. It has been suggested that my grandson has ODD and he's taken risperidone. It did not make him sleepy after the initial week or two. It did help him to be more mellow.

There are other health professionals who are able to prescribe medication. I see a nurse practitioner for depression and anxiety medication. A friend sees a PhD. for her medication. I'd look to find someone that you can relate with and who can see both of you often, perhaps once a week until he gets regulated.

My grandson is 8. His ODD came out more at school than at home tho he was angry at home too. He's in a special school because he also has developmental, sensory, and speech and language issues. The school uses behavior modification techniques that have helped him learn how to better manage his feelings. With some training you can also use behavior modification skills at home.

We've found that coming down hard on my grandson only makes him more oppositional. What was recommended and works is that there is only one consequence for misbehavior. That is to go to his room until he can behave and also say he's sorry. We say, "you're angry. We don't want to be around you when you act this way. Go to your room until you can calm down. Come back out when you can say you're sorry."

This is done with a calm, firm voice but little emotion. We do it without expressing anger or frustration. It's just matter of fact, you're not good company now so go to your room.

At first he refused but with "the stare" he learned to comply. After a couple of weeks he was going straight to his room. He puts himself in his room at times now. He can play in his room. This gives him time to separate from what was causing his anger and allows him to cool down. His room becomes a sanctuary instead of a punishment. It teaches him how to control himself.

This will only work, if you can do it unemotionally. Once you're frustrated or angry, he will focus on your anger and build up his own anger in response. This takes practice and self-control.

Try thinking of your son as needing your support and help instead of as a trouble maker. He's not acting this way on purpose. He has needs that aren't being met. It's our role as parents to find out what our children need and provide that.

All children need firm control and consistency. This technique provides that. It works with his older sister who doesn't have ODD.

I had difficulty with this at first because I expected immediate improvement. I also gave too many warnings. I wanted the child to comply without having to go thru the process of sending them to their room. I had trouble patiently waiting. With self-talk and time I learned how to do this.

After SWH: It's fair for you to say to the physician's assistant that you'd like to talk with him without the computer in between. Let him know what you want. All too often professionals don't realize how they come across and need to be reminded that we are a person with our own needs. Tell him you're going to stay until you get your questions answered. You can do this in a respectful way.

Wow, I feel your pain. I've dealt with a hate/hate relationship between my sons and I can bet you are practically dreading each day.

The _only_ discipline that has worked for my family is to pour out the love, kindness and gratitude; all that you can muster. But give him some space. Can he have a bedroom to himself? If there is an exercise room in the house where he can feel alone? I actually wouldn't let him be alone but monitor him from a distance.

Explain to the younger ones that their brother needs his "space" and there are to be no intrusions from them. Now, I don't want to tell you to ignore your oldest. You need to find something, anything, to compliment him about. Maybe it is the first minute or two when he arrives home from school that you can tell him that you really appreciate this quietness. He needs to know that, no matter what, you love him.

Still, this house belongs to you and your husband. If he regularly uses a computer in the house, remind him that it is yours (even though, for convenience, it is referred to as his -- because he is the one using it most often). You may require that he behave in order that the computer can be on and used. And "behave" may, at first, just mean being "not mean or hurtful".

According to a very good book called "1-2-3 Magic", keep your emotional reactions down. It was hard for me to do, but seeing that I wouldn't budge and that I was reacting with a practical and resigned attitude, my son backed down quite a bit (surprising me very nicely).

Definitely, get some help from therapy with a child psychologist. There have been some medications my son has been on which seemed to work for a while then we had to switch to an alternative.

If I were in that doctor's office, I wouldn't leave until all my questions were answered. I wouldn't talk until he was looking at me. Darn, I just wouldn't give the doctor or PA any slack.

You should contact his teachers to see if he is having any outbursts at school. Has his normal behavior at school changed in any way.

I will be thinking of you and your sons. Good luck. -D.

Find a Therapist for him.
Before it gets worse.
You need to know why, and he does too... WHY he is like this.
And only regarding his siblings and himself, at home.

A layperson, cannot 'cure' him.
It is time... for PROFESSIONAL help.

Just because the meds didn't work the first time doesn't close that door. Keep working the psych angle until you find meds that DO work. Find a psychiatrist that will help your son.

B.,

I am so sorry you are going through this. It's a very difficult situation for your entire family.

I do not have any answers other than your son needs help. Seriously. Find a new psychiatrist. Try a few. Do whatever it takes.

I had an older brother who was much like your son. I grew up in fear of him. To the point where I would tremble and shake in fear when he was in the same room. It was horrible and it took a lot for me to get over it. I had trust issues with guys for many years, lost faith in my mother and resented her for not protecting me and my list could go on.

Seek help for your entire family.

I wish you the best.

Does he show this kind of anger towards anything else? Like animals or friends? Seems he has compassion since he is such a well behaved child every where else. From my knowledge, if it's a true mental disorder it will not just be directed at his siblings. If it's strictly his siblings, it sounds like his issues are only at them. May be jealous for some reason. You never know what could be triggering his rage at them. Five years is enough of an age gap that he knows life without them and may be hurting from having to share attention/effection (I am the oldest of three w/five years between so know this from personal experience). If you're not already, I would let him have a Mommy/Daddy day with just him and the things he likes to do. I do this for all my kids, along with family days also. He may not be mature enough to express why he feels like he does, but keep talking and communicating to show your compassion for him. He cannot be allowed to hurt his siblings though so when these episodes occur, he must have consequences and they should always be consistent. Whatever you do, showing love is of upmost importance, even if it's tough love.

"We have taken him to a psychiatrist, but have found little in the way of understanding him and getting any results. It seems that they just offer up a presciption, which generally make him sleepy, and that's it. No discussions or talks about how to modify the behavior."

What was the medication for? They do not Willy Nilly just give a prescription.. they tell you , this person is depressed, Bi Polar, whatever....
That is what you work with.. There will be therapies for your son included.

If you did not like the meds, ask for something different. Just let them know what the results were with the original meds..

Find another Doctor and have your son evaluated.

Maybe your son is exhausted emotionally and physically after trying to hold it together all day at school.

He realizes he cannot behave that way in school.

He realizes this is not the way anyone else acts at school.

He is frightened to show his true self in public..

Your son needs help, he is worth figuring this out for his sake.

I would change clinics altogether. Different docs, nurses etc. The place you go to sounds horrid. You live in a large metro area there has to be other medical groups. He should have an evaluation with a Psychiatrist and then a counselor/therapist he meets with weekly. The Psy should only do med checks.

If you are going through your Children's Hospital, their waiting lists are a nightmare. We skipped dealing with them and went straight to a different Behavioral health center. At this point go with who can get you in, not who "neighbor suzy" said was the best place.

How do his brothers treat him? Do they annoy him, get into his things, are they loud etc. and get him into trouble? I'm not saying that he's justified in how he behaves but maybe he's fed up with how his brothers act/treat him and he doesn't know how to communicate his feelings about it. I know that sometimes siblings can be pesky and when the older ones are trying to "deal" with it, they're the ones who get into trouble. I'm always having to look at the whole situation and although the older ones will get in trouble for being mean or whatever, the younger ones will also get in trouble for their part in the dispute. That helps a lot in our house. I'm not sure if it helps but it's a thought. Good luck!!

Please do not start spanking or using a belt on your son to address this situation. First off, studies show that spanking, despite how satisfying and seemingly immediate it can be for the parent, has ABSOLUTELY NO POSITIVE EFFECT on the child. None. Study after study shows this. For the record, some studies show no negative effect, either, within certain parameters. But still, No Positive Effect, and the possibility of long-term negative effects. So why bother? Can we just get that off the table?

I do agree with some posters that it's likely that you're going to get much better help from a psychologist or therapist than from a psychiatrist. Usually, a psychiatrist will work with a therapist, handling the medication side of the equation only, and the talking part of the therapy is handled by the therapist. Psychiatrists are not usually trained in talk therapy, they are trained in diagnosis and medication. They are doctors, after all. So, find a good therapist who works with a psychiatrist, and that way the therapist can talk to your son (and you), and can coordinate any meds that may be needed directly with the doctor. There's little, if any, need for you to have much contact with the doc.

That said, IMHO, your oldest son is hurting. He is troubled. And not in a dramatic, "Troubled Kid," made-for-TV-movie kinda way. I just mean, something is troubling him. And he needs his parents to ground him (not like he can't leave the house, but in the sense that you are the earth in which he feels rooted, grounded), stabilize him, give him love and support and unconditional connection. Ten is a tough age, there is so much going on for him physically, socially, academically and physiologically. And you and his dad have your hands full with two littluns at home, so I imagine he's been getting the you're-the-big-kid treatment at home. Maybe he needs to be seen through a different lens: he's not that big yet. He's still a little kid. He still needs his Mommy and Daddy. Even if he denies it vehemently.

The harder you come down on him, the more disconnected he feels from you, and the more angry he gets at himself. It is ~that~ mis-directed anger, the confusion and self-loathing that come from questioning his parents' love and loyalty, that are causing him to lash out at the thing he thinks has displaced him: his brothers. If he didn't question his place in the family, he wouldn't need to challenge it so much.

So. I suggest therapy, yes. But there are also some good books that might give you some ideas about new ways to approach and parent your son:

http://www.amazon.com/Hold-Your-Kids-Parents-Matter/dp/03...
This is a great one to give you a new view of what your kid's life is like, and how you might be more of an influence, and a better influence, in the future. It's a map for how to build a real family unit together.

http://www.amazon.com/Playful-Parenting-Lawrence-J-Cohen/...
This is one of the foremost books regarding a style of parenting and an approach that re-visits the idea that we "control" our children. Many concrete tips for how to build your relationship on love and respect and FUN, which it sounds like your family has lost (and Fun is Vital to Life... I really believe that...)

http://www.amazon.com/Honey-Wrecked-Kids-Screaming-Privil...
I love this woman's voice (she's got a great sense of humor and a great deal of empathy for our struggles as parents), and her theory is well-grounded and well-researched; she is building on 30+ years of work of another therapist.

Good luck to you. Your family has a tough journey ahead of it, and I hope you can find the loving path. It's not too late.

Best,
K.

I have almost an identical situation to yours with the 3 boys and almost the same ages. I could use any advice you get from others too.

Try a psychologist or councilor instead of a psychiatrist. Plus yours does not sounds like a model MD so I hope at least you are on the list for another one. Your son may or may not need meds but he should be closely monitored and also receiving counseling in conjunction with any meds. Risperdal is a strong psych med and should be monitored for progress. I hope you are able to find someone soon because if anyone needs help soon it is your family. I don't know what would happen but maybe you could contact CPS and ask if they can refer you to a place.