Am I Overreacting?!? or Is This Parental Alienation?

Updated on April 09, 2012
G.G. asks from Erie, PA
13 answers

I have been separated from my ex for almost 8 years now, our divorce was finalized in October. We also had a custody mediation in October, he failed to keep up with his end of the agreement and then failed to attend the second mediation, and I was given full custody of the children. He lives in another state and rarely comes to town, but he is in town for the week, so I allowed the kids to see him. They were there for a few hours and the first thing my 9 year old told me when I picked them up was, "Dad's girlfriend signed me up for an email address and a Facebook account!" I was livid, this had been something I had been talking to my fiance about and I had decided that when they turned 13 (which is how old you are supposed to be to have a Facebook account) we would make this big deal about it and sign them up and friend the whole family, now this has been taken away from me by my ex's girlfriend. :( It was not a super huge deal, I talked to my ex and explained that maybe he should have at least let me in on that decision, and he said he was sorry and that he did not think it was a big deal.
Then my daughter and my son both proceed to tell me how their father told them how I have denied his requests for them to come see him for the summers, and that I have kept them from him, because of girl scouts and beach parties. That if I would just let them come there he would pay for everything and I would not have to pay for anything. His girlfriend also told them that I said they were afraid to go there. Now, yes, I kept them from going there last summer, but we had no custody agreement in place and he had not even seen them at all in 5 years, and had barely talked to them (maybe 10 times in those 5 years), the year before that he had wanted to give up his rights and the year before that he said he could not afford it. I do not think it is right to be putting the kids in the middle of this at all, and I see it as parental alienation, and I have no idea what to do. He wants them to come over to his mom's again tomorrow (He is staying there while he is in town) but I do not know if I should if he is going to be filling their heads with all of this information that they should not be worried about. In our custody order there is a point in there saying that neither parent should talk negatively about the other. My question is what should I do? I want to be level headed about it, I do not want to just flip out and be all angry, I am trying really hard to be nice and civil with him, but I do not want him taking advantage. I need advice. Thanks!

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So What Happened?

Thanks for the advice! I did call him at his mom's and I told him what the kids told me and his response was "Ok, what part of that is a lie?" I told him that it didn't matter if it was true or not, the fact is the kids don't need to be put in the middle of this and that in our custody order it says we are not to talk bad about each other. He told me he thought they deserved to know why they could not go to his house over the summer and that he did not see it as talking bad about me. Then he hung up on me and refused to talk to me when I tried to call back.
As of right now, I have full legal and physical custody, he only has visits on a mutually agreed upon basis. The mediator told me that I had no obligation to allow him access to them, but I would like them to have a relationship with them, I just want the relationship to be strengthened before he takes them 3 states away.

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T.S.

answers from Washington DC on

Well, it's not parental alienation (by any stretch of the imagination) but it is pretty jerky and immature.

Try to take a breath. This man is NOT hugely influential in your children's lives. Whatever he tells them this weekend they have a lifetime with you to counteract.

Remember that you want what's best for your children which has nothing to do with what is good or bad for their father. If they want to see him this weekend (which is sounds like they do), it's best to let them go. There really is no advantage he can take other than in his own ego.

My advice is that the next time they come home telling you what stressful thing their dad piled on, just say something like "Oh sweety, I don't want you to worry about that at all. You know that Mommy is taking care of it. The grown ups will make sure that all of that gets handled, children do not need to be in the middle of it."

As for the Facebook page, you have legal custody. You and you alone decide what and when they can sign up for stuff. Delete the account and tell your kids that Facebook is not for 9 year olds. Period. Who cares if you're the mean one. You're the one in charge.

HTH

7 moms found this helpful

G.T.

answers from Redding on

The kids are probably asking him what happened so they can hear his side of the story. He's probably being a little too honest but maybe not intentionally. His girlfriend is probably just trying to make sure they like her.
I understand you feel threatened, afterall you've been the only caregiver of them for years.
Might be good for you to maturely talk to your kids as well while pandora's box is open..... you can't shut it now.
Think of the best way to go forward without upsetting them emotionally.
This really means you are probably going to have to get used to communicating with your ex on a more regular basis so he is up to speed on your parenting style and you both need to figure out how to agree on the same boundaries while dealing with the kids.

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R.M.

answers from Cumberland on

You know-"if you give somone enough rope, they will hang themselves". Call his bluff-tell him he can have the children for the whole summer -send them with minimal clothing and old shoes-tell him they have to join a pool and take golf and tennis lessons and are required to read 8 books over the summer and turn in a paper on at least one, written in the MLA format, the first day of school. They should also attend a summer workshop for writing and perhaps, a drama camp that culminates in a production of some sort. Is he near a lake-I think water skiing lessons and sailing lessons are indicated. See where I'm going with this? Hand him a list of places in his area where all this can be accomplished and watch him squirm. Lay it on him-he'll run!

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D..

answers from Charlotte on

ETA - After seeing your SWH, I think you had better sit down with your girls and make some things clear. Explain to them "reality", and that means that girl scouts and beach parties don't have anything to do with it.

I would NOT allow him to have the kids 3 states away with him hanging up on you on the phone. If he wants to see the girls, it should be on his vacation at his mother's house. I am sorry, but I think you dropped the ball with your answer to him when you said it didn't matter if it was true or not. You need to differentiate between fact and fiction.

If you let those children go 3 states away, you will regret it. He is showing you just how he will "stick it to you", using these kids.

Original:
I would like to see what moms who have been in your shoes say, to be honest. I have no experience with this at all. However, I guess what I would want to do is go over there with the kids and confront him about his words. Ask him how he would like it if YOU told the kids that he didn't want them all those years. Did he pay any support all that time? If he didn't, how would he like it if you told the kids he was too cheap to give any money toward food or clothes.

I wouldn't say this in front of your children. But I'd make sure he understood that behavior like this was going to blow up in his face, because you CAN only give him access as far as the custody agreement decrees with NO extras. OR he can act like a decent human being and stop it with the lies. I would also tell the girlfriend that she is not helping the situation.

I don't know what kind of relationship you have with your ex-MIL, but I would tell her what her son did. Sometimes it is good for people to understand that you won't take being crapped on without raising a stink about it. And your girls will see that what he says doesn't add up. Make SURE you tell them that their dad has no right to tell them to keep secrets - that's the first thing he might do - tell them not to tell you things he says.

Of course, if you bad-mouth him in front of them (which you shouldn't), they'll just tell him what YOU say. And you shouldn't do that.

Good luck.

2 moms found this helpful

⊱.E.

answers from Dallas on

Personally, I would not let the kids see him again until you have talked to him one-on-one and make it clear to him that you will not let the kids go until you have talked to him about the issue. You would not let the kids go to a babysitter or family member if they bad mouthed you, so it shouldn't be different because it is their father. Obviously, the courts and the mediator feel the same way, since his visitations are based solely on you.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but I have had a lot of experience with this. More than I would like, really. My parents divorced when I was young, and my father had no qualms bashing my mother, even making up lies that were obvious lies. It had the opposite effect than he wanted, though. I ended up disrespecting him, not my mother. The experience taught me a lot, however, when I had my own kids. I have been very lucky that their dad and I can communicate, respect each other, and deal with the kids together instead of separately. It was not automatic--we BOTH had to work on working together. It sounds to me that you are the only one working on it. He needs to put out the effort, too, especially since his visitation is limited to your discretion. You have full custody for a reason.

Sorry, I am going on and on. Really, I would try to talk to him again and make it clear to him what your expectations are. If he is receptive, then let him see the kids. If not, then I would explain to him (and the kids--they have a right to know) why you do not feel comfortable allowing the kids to go see him. The one concern I have, though, is that you are thinking of letting them go three states away for visitation. He needs to earn that privilege, not only by not bad-mouthing you, but also by consistent visitations. He needs to prove that he is an adequate parent (especially since he has been absent for so many years).

I wish you luck. You sound like a great mom who wants the best for her kids. I am sure that whatever you do will be the best decision for your kids.

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S.S.

answers from Denver on

J.B.'s answer is perfect.

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C.T.

answers from Santa Fe on

My parents divorced when I was 4 and I had to spend my entire childhood listening to both of them bash the other one and put my brother and I in the middle of things. Now that I'm an adult I have so little respect for them that they were not mature enough or adult enough and they did this to us. It really messed my brother and I both up and gave us both big self esteem issues. Actually, they both act like this to this day and I am 40 years old. I don't know what to advise you bc it is not you but your husband doing this...but you should do anything you can to make it stop. Also, if you just always take the high road and never say anything negative about him, your kids will really respect you for this later. Sorry you and your kids are going through this. :(

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C.C.

answers from Houston on

Let 'em go...forget the problems the two of you have ....let the kids be with their Dad!

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P.G.

answers from Dallas on

I don't think you can stop them from seeing him if it's part of the custody order. Don't have experience with this, but talk to your attorney - you might get info on the right thing to say to the ex so that he keeps the adult conversations out of the kid visits. Good luck!

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M.P.

answers from Portland on

So much anger in the answers. I've been there and anger will not solve this problem. This is his first visit after the visitation agreement. It takes time to work out a co-operative way of sending the kids back and forth.

In reality you kept him from seeing them last summer. You had some very good reasons. Talk with the kids about why you made that decision. He was trying to explain to the kids that he wanted to see them. It's fair for him to tell them that. Now you just need to bring them up to speed with what really happened. This is not bad mouthing you. It's telling them what happened from his viewpoint. He has the right to do that.

I would tell him, when the kids aren't around, perhaps by phone, your feelings on what the kids need to know or not know. Allow him to tell the kids he wanted to see them but express your feelings, using I statements, about the way in which he did it.

I would send the kids over. Keeping them from him will not help them or you. You'll be proving what he told them that you keep them away from him.

Re: Facebook. You've already told him how you feel about it. Give him a chance to show that he can be co-operative over such things. And deactivate the account. He's too young. You made a good decision there.

This is all new and all of you have adjustments to make. I don't know the age of your other children but if they are old enough to understand I'd briefly tell them about the visitation order and how both you and their
Dad are working out a way to make it work.

This is not parental alienation. And from the tone of your question, I suggest that you are not over reacting. It just takes time to get to learn how to function with the new relationships new arrangements.

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R.K.

answers from Appleton on

You did not mention a time line for his requests for visits or any arrangements for them to actually get to see him. Did he call the week before and say 'hey how about I pick up the kids next weekend and take them home for a week' or did he give plenty of notice to come and get the kids. You need to sit down with the kids and explain what happened. If you already had plans and the kids were planning to go to camp and it's all paid for he should understand.
You need to sit down with him and a court meditator and hammer out a concrete schedule for his visitation. Something like he gets the kids the second week of June and pays for them to travel. He has to make all travel arrangements and pay for them.
You also need to explain to them that the plans are made around any schedules such as Little League, Scouts, vacations with you ect and they will go to visit dad from date - date. If he doesn't hold up his side of the bargain the kids need to understand that he was responsible to provide transportation ect.
I think this may border on parental alienation. He is using you as the excuse for not seeing his kids. At this point he is responsible to make arrangements to see his kids.
As far as the email account and the facebook account delete them and password protect your account on your home computer. Talk to the teachers at school and ask them to monitor their computer time while at school. But also remember they can go to the library and use a computer and set up accounts on their own.
As far as a court order for no negative talk about each other you have little to no control over what he, his family members or friends are going to say to the kids when they are with them. All you can do it be the best parent you can be. Keep your word, teach them to be responsible, take care of their needs ect. I know it's difficult but years from now they will get it. They will remember that Mom was there for them and dad was an occasional visitor. Just hang in there.

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M.L.

answers from Houston on

That is not parental alienation.... but I would keep track of what he says just in case. If your kids ask about how true they are, just tell them that there is some truth to it (you did withhold them from visiting one summer and I don't think he was wrong in the slightest for telling them that), but some of the other things he said is slightly skewed.

But I would cancel the facebook accounts.

J.S.

answers from Hartford on

His version of "the truth" doesn't mean he gets to behave like a little brat and speak about you that way to the kids. He's being really immature all around. Yes, I think it's parental alienation and should be reported to the mediator and recorded in your documentation.

Since he's decided to try to poison the children, I would probably sit down with them and simply reassure them that what he told them about you keeping them from him isn't true. Just short and sweet and gentle. Give them the chance to ask you questions, and answer them truthfully but neutrally.

His sudden interest probably has a lot to do with his new girlfriend and 1.) proving how horrible you are 2.) what a great father he is 3.) showing what a great all around guy he is.

I personally wouldn't allow the kids to get the FB pages citing FB's 13 + rule. You're the custodial parent and he doesn't really get a say in a FB profile. E-mails are fine, but I would sure to have the kids' passwords and don't let their father have the passwords.

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