7Th Circle of Hell

If you do move back to your Mom's, I wouldn't leave the 10 year- old behind if I were you (some others have suggested this). You already mentioned that in the past your husband wasn't taking good care of him, and it sounds like your MIL has her own problems! I would, however, begin to formulate a plan for yourself and your children. You sound like a very intelligent woman, with a marketable set of job skills. If your parents are amenable, I would suggest moving back with them, getting proper child care in place and eventually finding a job. Your husband, unfortunately, has made it pretty clear that he is not interested in trying to make this work by his overall immaturity and lack of motivation regarding counseling. Now you have to take the steps necessary to protect your children and your sanity. It sounds like your parents would provide you the support you need as you navigate what's to come. And although another move would indeed be rough for your oldest child, I think ultimately the stability of a happy home would outweigh the negatives of having to change schools again. Good luck.

Crimany!
I think I'd go back to my moms for awhile to regroup.
If you find yourself able to live without him, it might be the way to go.
You cannot work on your marriage in THAT environment.
And, yes, men can and will sometimes turn back into children when under mommies roof. Daughters can do that sometimes too. Everyone likes to be taken care of a little bit, but we also have to grow up and realize that taking care of yourself is the best thing.
Just reading your post made me want to bite my nails, pull out my hair, and take a prozac.
Two women under one roof hardly ever works even in best case scenarios.
You husband is not being very responsible at all.
You are learning about his character right now. Take what you are learning to heart and do the best thing for you and your kids. You should know what that is soon.

One thing that stands out - how does he know millions of women raise their three children W/O THE HELP OF OTHERS? Plus, why are you expected to cater to the entire household when you have a newborn - his mom should know better. AND, if she was able to cater to his every need plus your son's while you weren't there - why can't she take care of all of you now?

I really don't know how to advise you but I do hope things get better for you when you finally move out. The dynamics of living with parents as an adult is complicated on so many levels. Why men are such momma's boys as adults and why momma's undermine DIL's - I have no idea, I'm baffled at it all. I have two sons and will encourage the union of their marriages and remind them that their family comes first - I'm sorry you don't have that support from your MIL.

I agree with Sara B. If you could find a small place closer to his work place - that would be better. Although, it sounds like convincing your husband of that may be a feat of grand magnitude.

Can you take your two yr. old and newborn and go back to your mom's until the money is saved to move out? Your MIL did a fine job of taking care of them while you were gone, let her keep doing it. Not saying that it would be easy to leave your son though but he would be able to stay in his school. You deserve to be treated better than this from your husband and MIL.

On another note, is there something going on with your husband that needs to be addressed? Has he always been like this before moving in with his mom (you just didn't see it as strongly)? Could this just be temporary? There is always another side, can you talk to him about what is going with him and how he feels about this time in your married life? Maybe there is something going on you aren't aware of b/c the focus has been on the baby and your health for the past several months. I'm not disregarding how he has treated you at all, it is just a thought.

I really do wish you strength, joy and happiness. Congratulations on your newborn! Good luck!

UPDATE:
After your update post - take all of your kids and go back to your mother's! I have known two women in your position regarding the husband's idea of gender roles in the household - both marriages failed. I think you know the answer, you are just scared to make that step. Be aware, that your son is learning this behavior of how to treat women from your husband - it may end up hurting his relationship with women as he gets older. I am normally not a fan of advising separation or divorce but if your husband doesn't want to work on your marriage and you are not comfortable with role he expects (which I wouldn't be) - maybe leaving will give him a new perspective. If it doesn't, it may best in the end, that you are apart. I am so, so sorry you are dealing with this...

It sounds like it is time to move, with or with out hubby. Take the kids back to your moms if you need to, or see if you can find a job and move out on your own. It will be hard, and scary, but seeing you do it may force your husband to realize that he needs to shape up, and if not if may be time to move on. Right now it sounds like you have 4 children to care for, your husband needs to man up. I am a stay at home mom, and my husband is folding the cloths even as I type this because he knows how hard it is to raise children full time.

this qualifies under something most women tend to do but it seems your hubby did quite well too "Hide The Crazy!" I think that you need to get out of his mother's home and possibly back into your mother's if possible. If he wants to have mommy take care of him then he should have stayed with mommy. But that is just my point of view.

I imagine this is also not how MIL expected to spend her golden years, with a house full of unhappy people and little kids that require work. I expect your husband is perhaps slightly depressed about the job and house situation and acting irritable since he sees no options. I would approach this as positively as possible. Make a list of pros and cons for various options: your own apartment, going back to IL to your mom, staying where you are in MIL's house, maybe a totally different situation like putting kids in day care and you going to work again (might be more fun and would make you some money - perhaps work at a daycare?). Then give your husband the list with a note explaining why you cannot continue this way, and ask him for a good time to discuss within the next week since these things need to be thought through. In the mean time, get away from that house as often as possible. Treat it like a dormatory. Go to the public library with the youngest 2, or the mall, or go visit friends, go to play dates, go to a local free museum, etc. Get out of the house more. I could not have survived without play dates (for me to talk to the moms, not just for the kids) and my husband is a great helper and kind to me. Your local library should have info on kids activities (many are free), and the town hall might have info on "new parents" or just "newcomers" groups (my mom used to do "Welcome Wagon" where new residents would get a basket of food and someone to talk to about local things they might need). Where you gave birth might have info on "new mom's groups" that I found a life saver since I was so lonely at home with my first. When you are this deep into the 7th Circle of Hell you are probably tired, worn out, depressed, and annoyed. Not the best frame of mind to make life altering decisions, so get out of the house during the week and do a few fun things with the kids on weekends. Finally, hormones may still be wreaking havoc with your emotions, so give yourself a break like the other posting suggests. Focus on the few good things and explain to the kids this situation will get better with time and that everyone needs to pitch in and be as happy as they can be. If you lived in a shelter or on the street this situation would seem much more positive. Wishing you all the best.

You are SO stressed! If you take care of you better, the other things won't seem so mindboggling. Concentrate on your new baby, and getting enough sleep. If your toddler breaks something of Grandma's, not your problem. If your husband wants a meal, not your problem. If the laundry piles up, not your problem. Grandma doesn't feel she can help with the baby, and that's OK, so let her do everything else. If she caters to hubby, good for you. Tell him to enjoy it while he can. If he wants something done, tell him to ask his mom. That's why you're living there---so she can help. Let her do it, and worry about unspoiling the kids when you get your own place.
Whoaa!! just saw your addition to your post. Waaaaaay more problems with the hubby, huh. When you get your own place again, you need a pen and paper! Your budget, your expenses, your family chores. A marriage is a partnership, and you're living in a dictatorship! Stand up for yourself and be an equal. All money earned is family money, and chores are split up by time it takes to get them done, not by who's "job" it is. Nobody rests til they're all done. If he can't see things that way, you have to decide if you want to live like that, or find a better deal. It doesn't sound like you're getting any respect, but if you act like a doormat, that's how he'll treat you, so stand up for yourself. You have nothing to lose.

Geez! That's a tough one. To play devil's advocate here, there are lots of women who not too long ago - and probably even now - managed their families without much help from fathers They had to hold it down and do the best they could and society did not support asking the husbands to do a load of laundry. (Not to mention all the single parents who are struggling every day to make it work.) I know you're all cringing but that's the awful truth. So, maybe MIL is thinking about her own days when she did the same, and wondering why you can't get it together. Your hubby too probably saw all his dear mom went through when he was young and now expects the same of you.

Moving out sounds like it's not possible right now, and running away to Mom's will not fix the problem, especially if you do value the marriage and want it to work. So, how do you get them both to realize and accept the fact that the old model is outdated and not the most conducive to having a healthy and strong family, and that by working together, everyone can benefit and the household can be more relaxed and enjoyable? If your hubby refuses to go to counseling maybe you should bring it to him. But first, I think you should sit down and think about what you can do to get your sanity back, to organize yourself and your family, to schedule a little down time for yourself on a regular basis and maybe even a date night here or there for you both as it sounds like you might both need to reconnect as a couple.

One of the posts suggested making a list and asking for some time to talk things over. I'd suggest that your MIL be included in that discussion. When you do have the discussion, ask specific questions about their experiences - ask MIL if she did all this by herself, if she ever had help, ask what could have made her life easier, what role she sees herself playing in your family now? How she thinks she can contribute to the household? If hubby used to help and no longer does so, ask him what changed and why? Try to listen to them both and respond when necessary without accusations, but with facts, or simply how you feel. Tell them what your expectations are, and lay out a plan of how things could flow if each person did their part and took a chore. Ask if they're willing to help so that the family can be more fully functional. That will also include your 10 and 2 yr olds if they don't already have chores. Nothing major for the 2 yr old obviously, putting his toys away, that sort of thing.

Finally, it also sounds like both you and hubby need to get a tighter reign on the 2 yr old. He's not just being spirited, he's testing the boundaries of your discipline, and it sounds like you're too tired and distracted to put your foot down. But if he continues to go undisciplined for his misbehavior you'll soon have bigger problems as he gets into bigger issues as he matures, and as the 10 yr old notices that bad behavior goes unpunished, or as he starts to crave your attention, and also starts to act out.

If your hubby is absolutely unwilling to help in any way aside from bringing home the bacon, then maybe you need to look at the worst case scenario. Just remember, that whether you're employed or unemployed, whether you live with mom or on your own, you're going to come back to some of the same issues because single parenting is twice as hard as what you're experiencing now.

It's tough but you can make it work with a little patience.

A., I'm so sorry about your situation. I know, It's very complicated. And I know, you can't bear to "break" the promise you made to your son. But, you and your children need to get out of there, & stay with your Mom. You will need to apologize to your Son, & explain that the current situation is too hard on everyone. Your Son will likely be upset, but once you settle in to a calmer, more relaxed, supportive environment @ your Mom's, your son can truly start to feel more stability than what he has been experiencing. Just as important, so will YOU! I'm a big believer in turning over every stone before opting out of a marriage. Your leaving may open up your Husband's eyes. But, I suspect that you are truly seeing the "real" man (man?) he is. Too many men fitting your husband's description temporarily become more supportive when they realize that you really are leaving. The wife gives him another chance, & he soon reverts to his old ways. If you do decide to go to your Mom's, ask her to come to help you leave, & perhaps have another supportive person (Your FATHER/ friend of your Mom's?) present so your husband/ MIL don't "gang up on you" or try to influence your older son's opinion. That's why I would not give your husband or MIL advance notice that you are (at the least) taking a break so you can get much needed support/ rest. You and your kids DO NOT deserve to be treated this way. Recoup @ your Mom's. If you decide to dump the Mr., I know it means your having to return to work @ some point. But, as the very lucky wife of a wonderful Husband/ Father, I can tell you, there ARE good men out there. I'm sorry, but your husband is not one of them. (Also, you don't want your kids emulating Dad's behavior as THEY get older...) Your view will be clearer once you get out of the toxic woods/ hell that you are now living in. Wishing you and your children ALL the best!!! P.s- Have you sent a copy of your Mamapedia post to your parents? They need to know exactly what is happening. I bet they will welcome/ encourage you back with open arms!!

I'm with Gramma T (the whole post, wholeheartedly)... head back to your mothers!!!

Go to your Mom's.
Have a good talk with your 10 year old, one-on-one.. I am sure... he knows, what is going on. No need to pretend.
Kids are smart... they know... what is going on.
And yes, take him with you.
TELL your Mom/best friends what is going on....

Your Husband... is useless... and not going to change. He has a good thing now... being treated like a King... and treating you worse than a pet dog.
He says to 'suck it up' so he can buy a house and that you need to 'chill out' and be on medication.
He will NOT change his tune!
You already tried....
This can go on for YEARS...... and it still does not mean, he will change or that your family/kids will be better.
I don't see this changing.... for better. Only worse.

Leave.
You seem to the the ONLY rational person, in the family.

all the best,
Susan

There seem to be a lot of levels of stress and irritation going on here and *some* involve the in-laws....but I think the main thing is that your hubby needs to man up and get you all a place to live that is NOT his parents house. Even if you need to rent an apartment while you save for a house--that would be best. And yes--I do think in the right circumstances you are able & willing to care properly and completely for your hubby & 3 kids. Many women do it.
THEN decide if it's worth paying daycare for you to return to work.
Get on board with Dave Ramsay's financial advice so YOU can decide what to do in your lives--stop letting the (lack of) money decide. Good luck!

.

you need to find a way to get out. Can you possibly afford an apartment, maybe closer to your husband's work so he doesnt have such a huge commute every day? Anything has got to be better than this! Even if it's a 2 bedroom and the kids have to share a room, at least you can have your own space again.

Did your husband help much before or were you expected to do everything then, too? If it's just that he's been spoiled by his mom, hopefully he'll get over it quickly once she's not there to cater to him. If not, it sounds like some marriage counseling is in order.

Is it possible to go to family counseling to sort through all of these issues? There are lots of moving parts here and you guys may need a neutral party to help.

Don't wait to blow up and do permanent damage (not that you would, but I wouldn't let it even get close to that point). JMO.

Good luck to you and your family.

Yes, most of what you say is to be expected. The whole bit! Chaos in the home because of too many people, MIL problems because you disagree on how you/she does things, regression because Mum is there to do it, etc etc.

You are living with someone else, assuming you don't have as many bills, so get a job and place the kids in child care. Stay there for a while and get the finances together. Buy a crock pot if there isn't one already and get through the winter with stews and such that you can start early and have it ready by the end of the evening. Stick a piece of meat in the pot and when MIL says what is for dinner, say I'm not sure what we could do with that meat, what are you thinking. Share the duties, but I can see where both of you feel it is not your responsibilities to care for everyone in the home.

If you get a job, you won't be home all day to get stressed about it. We all have stress, but it is weighted differently or distributed some place else.

If you can't afford daycare, find a sitter who works out of their home. This can be done, you just have come up for air and make a plan.

BTW, I lived with my mother who baby sat my sisters kids. My sis didn't bring food for them and I basically spent my money DAILY on food because the kids came home from school hungry. The price you pay for living with someone else and saving in one area.

Work on getting out of the 7th realm.

wow.... I don't have any advice other then take a girl night for yourself. You need a deep breath and a big hug! and then you will be able to think about what your options are and what you are willing to do.
God Bless!
~C.

I haven't read any of the other answers yet.
Will say just a few things off the top of my head.

First . . . it sounds like MIL/grandma WAS in fact,
taking good care of your 10-year-old for a while.
Given your promise not to make him switch schools again,
I wonder if he could stay w/grandma . . . if only until the winter break,
separate from what the rest of you do, perhaps even through until
next summer. ???

Consider having a conversation w/your 10-year-old
about the overall situation. See what he thinks.
Tell him that you/Mom will make the ultimate decision
but that you want his opinion/needs included
in your decision-making process.
That you expecially don't want to short-change him
because of all the crazyness going on in the family.

Next . . . . it sounds like YOUR mom was a good resource
when the new baby was brand new.

Can you and the baby and the 2-year-old go back to YOUR mom's home,
at least for a few months, to help you get back on your feet.
I'm guessing that maternal grandma would probably be better
at childproofing as well as supporting you in baby care.

You've already found that counseling with DH didn't work well,
if at all. It's good that you continued counseling yourself.
Probably gave you some helpful tools and techniques
to keep yourself functioning through the last few months.

So . . . . given your own sanity and wellbeing as #1 priority,
and then best situation for the children as #2 priority,
if it were me in this situation, I think I'd go to my mom's home,
at least for a while, taking the two younger children with you.

Set a time deadline for yourself to reconsider your options,
after you've had at least a few weeks of (relative) calm, w/Mom.

Thank you for sharing your family saga with us.
In addition to your ability to describe the situation clearly,
I think you have given many of us some perspective
and an opportunity to appreciate our own circumstances,
which are likely far less complicated than your own.

Wishing you well, and the strength
to take care of yourself and your children.
====================================
I don't know whether this is an option in your location.
However . . . . there are match-making organizations/cooperatives
where moms with kids connect with other moms with kids
and combine households. Their attitudes about child-rearing
and other needs have to be in sync with one another.
I would hate to see you have to go back to work
while your youngest is still a baby.
And, in fact, while your middle child isn't yet in school.
Part of your husband's difficulty may in fact
relate to his hour-long commute every day.
I am not excusing his behavior.
He just may be in over his head
regarding his own competence and motivation.
I just flashed on a fantasy scenario.
A mediation, facilitated by a competent professional,
in which the parties included your parents,
your DH's mom, you and DH, and your 10-year-old.
No yelling allowed.

I agree with the poster who said take the two youngest and move in with your mom. Is this possible? Call it a "vacation" and have your ten year old visit you on every break from school You and your hubby moving into a place of your own will not solve the problem. Unless he makes BIG changes -which takes years!- He will feel you should do all the housework childcare, laundry etc even if you work 40 hours a week. He has to be willing to change to make the marriage work and he needs to know you're serious about needing a break from him. Yes many women do take care of three children BUT it is dammed hard and one child could be neglected or asked to help too much! and he's asking you to take care of four not three. He's asking for you to work 24/7 and be grateful he kicks in a paycheck. Everyone deserves time to rest-get your rest, take a break and see what happens with the marriage, maybe he will miss you and come to his senses.

I have a few different thoughts on the issue...

1) Perhaps it would not be such a bad thing for your sanity to go ahead and find a job, even if it means that after daycare expenses you are only coming out ahead a few hundred bucks a month. I do not typically advocate for both parents to be working, unless there is financial necessity or for the benefit of the parents' mental health (which in turn equates to the children's well-being.)

**Oops, baby is waking from his nap...will continue later...**