6 Year Old Discipline

Have you read, BOUNDARIES WITH KIDS, by Drs Townsend & Cloud? It addresses this and other things you are or will be expereincing! I read it and it has changed the way I deal with many things... L.

I think it's interesting that you said, more or less, punishment isn't working, it back-fires leading to more punishment and it's a downward spiral. And it breaks my heart to hear so many people responding punish more, punish harder, make his dad beat him with a belt, soap in the mouth, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you want to try something completely different, you just don't know where to look or where to start.

So I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that you respond with patience, understanding, empathy, love, and nurturing kindness instead of punishment and pain. (Y'all please don't flame me now. I promise my children are not self-centered, spoiled brats.) Many times a child acts this way because he is hurting inside or feeling insecure. It's easy to be loveing and nurturing to a child that is crying; it is much harder to do so when they are lashing out in anger. But the pain inside may be the same - they are just expressing it differently. My son went through a very "angry" phase when he was 3-4, and whenever we responded harshly, it got worse - the "downward spiral" - exactly what you described. It only got better when we learned when to give him space, to allow him to express anger (without hurting anyone), and when we talked things over calmly. First off, you have to wait for the anger to subside before you can reason with him. While he's in a rage, you can give him some space, or you can try to hold him, but allowing yourself to get angry will usually escalate it. I don't like how the "123 Magic" program discourages any useful conversation about emotions. Everyone gets angry - being angry does not make a child bad, and teaching a child to repress anger isn't healthy. It's important that they learn how to express themselves, even when they are angry, in a way that is respectful. Respect isn't just something children need to show adults - it's a two-way street. Adults also need to respect the emotional needs of children and treat them like people worthy of respect.

(1)"Positive Discipline" is based on the premise that children behave better when they feel good about themselves, rather than when they are shamed, humiliated, and punished. My son's school, High Meadows, uses this as the basis for the school's discipline policy and they encourage all new parents to check out the book.

Harsh discipline can be emotionally devastating for boys.
(See (2) "Raising Cain: Protecting the emotional Lives of Boys") You already see that it isn't working for your son and that you need to try something completely different.

There are alternatives to punishment. In addition to "Positive Discipline," consider checking some of these out:
(3)"How to Behave so you children will too" by Sal Severe
(4)"Sibling Rivalry" and (5)"How to talk so your kids will listen and listen so your kids will talk", both by by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish.
(6)"Unconditional Parenting: Moving Beyond Rewards and Punishment to Love and Reason" by Alfie Kohn.

Ultimately I believe it is better to nurture a sense of compassion and empathy in a child so that he will know how to act on his own and he want to act in a way that shows genuine kindness and respect. I value "The Golden Rule" higher than I do having my child being mindlessly obediant and compliant to my every wish. It's not as simple as "123 Magic", which teaches a child to shut up and do what you tell him before you get to 3 OR ELSE... But I think it's worth it.

Let me know if any of those books help.

My daughter was 2 when I realized she had an anger problem, but no one would believe me. I was consistently told by "professionals" that it was just her age and she would grow out of it. It has taken a lot of tears, research, and a trip to the child psychologist to come up with a few things that help. I'll share a few of the things I've learned, but I agree with Debbie P that you should mention this to his ped especially if you don't see improvement within a couple of months.

The biggest thing, of course, is consistency. You and your hubby have to be on the same page about how you are going to handle his outbursts. Your son is old enough now that you can sit and talk to him about his anger and explain the conseguences that you and his father have decided are appropriate. Just remember to do this at a time when he is calm and happy, not during or after a tantrum.

Watch for patterns. Eating habits. Sleeping habits. Is he more prone to anger when he's tired or hungry? If he is in school, is there something going on in his classroom that could be agitating him? Does he have outbursts over anything other than punishments? Does it only happen at home or does he also have problems with other authority figures? The more you know about the circumstances leading up to that anger spiral the better equipped you will be to help him learn to control it. And teaching him to control his anger is the goal. Punishment and reward may works wonders. If not, you should try role playing. Whether it's with action figures or stuffed animals, show him how to better handle situations that cause him to get angry.

The hardest thing is to not take his anger personally. It took me a while to realize that my daughter's anger is not my fault. You are doing everything you know to do to be the best parent you can be. Always make sure that you don't let his anger become your anger. That will only feed his need to be angry and make things worse. (Learned that one the hard way.) Try to keep calm no matter what and you will save yourself a lot of headache and heartache.

I know it's hard. I'm still walking this road and I don't know how much longer it will be. But we are seeing improvement. The outbursts are not as severe and the recovery time is getting shorter. Our family time is better beacuse we are often able to head off the anger spiral before it starts. Just know that you're not alone and your family will get passed this.

I hope I was able to help a little. Good Luck!
T. D

The increased rage at being in trouble is either behavioral or a bigger problem.

First behavioral: At a not-in-trouble time, explain what in-trouble time will be like. That it means going in the corner/chair/step for the appointed amount of time and not having a fit. A fit results in further punishment. (You may need to check out some books from the library on discipline.) It may be that he gets something out of showing off for his younger brother, too. Take that out of the equation if you can by removing the two-year-old?

The bigger problem: If some of the positive reinforcement/ better ways to handle discipline advice you get here doesn't help and what you are seeing is your son's inability to handle his anger, may be something you can't do on your own. Mention the behavior to pediatrician. Could be Oppositional Defiance or some other such disorder just appearing. None of that can be determined, though, without medical expertise.

Does he have any other problems? Our son is special needs and punishment caused him to react the same way as your son. He has a lot of autism, and asperger and that is why for our son. But if your son is normal in every other way, I would tend to say that he is just rebelling against your authority.

Thank you so much for this post. It was almost like i wrote it! Only difference is that my youngest is 19 months. Did any of these answers work for you?

I know it sounds strange, but I would not escalate. This means that simply his consequence does not start until he is quiet... so if he is pitching a fit I wouldn't necessarily add more "punishment" I just would stay firm with the one he's received. By increasing his consequence you run the risk that he ties his "punishment" with you (he gets angry with you) rather than internalizing the lesson (when I do X I don't like how it makes me feel, so I won't do it next time). I would try being more matter-of-fact about it. I am a huge fan of Parenting with Love & Logic (search online and you can find it easily). It sounds like it would be a fantastic tool for you! Good luck!

I went to a 1 2 3 Magic class over the summer while my daughter was away with her bio father. I really didn't think I'd learn anything worth my time but I knew that my daughter was going to be a handful ( like she is every time she comes home from her dad's) with her bad attitude and smart mouthing that I wanted something to help back me up with what I already do as a parent. I've also got a 2yr old and sure as heck don't want him thinking it is ok to act like that either!! Any ways, the Magic program already uses the couting methond to 3 (which I already used just not as effectivly) and gave me more to go with it on. I did as the book said, to sit my children down (I didn't with my son, he was too little to understand) and I explained to her how I was going to count her from now on, why she would get counted and what would happen if she reached 3 (8 mins in her room for time out). I was going to start it the next day but I couldn't take her mouth anymore and started later that afternoon. Let me tell you that was the fastest turn around on her bad behaviour that I've ever seen from her summer visits!!! I also use it with my 2yr old and it doesn't work as well since he is trying to perfect his whinnying skills but he knows where time out is and goes there!! Now my hubby on the other hand went with me but didn't read the book afterwards and he isn't as good with the progam as I am. He trys to lecutre and reason with them, doesn't count, etc and he gets frustrated that I get results and he doesn't!!

So I highly recommend the 1 2 3 Magic book even if you can't get to a class for it!!! Even if you don't follow everything in it, you can customize it to fit your families needs.

Good luck!!
S.

You may need to take him to the doctor and ask about ADD or ADHD. My son had the same problem when he was little and we were finally told he had ADHD. They put him on meds. He was only on the meds for 3 years. In those 3 years we talked to him about controling his anger and what to do when he gets angry. I know alot of people don't like to give meds but I think that is selfish. If it helps the child and helps others around the child, it is a wonderful thing. Just because he gets put on meds doesn't mean they will be on them the rest of their life. But if he is it is ok. Letting your child continue in this path could hurt his ability to learn in school and it will also hurt other children in school and the teacher. Please consider this. Meds aren't a bad thing. If your child is put on meds and is acting like a zombie then either that med is not right for him or the dose it to high. It can be adjusted to fit the needs of your child.

I've read a great book called "The Brat Stops Here". I know the title is kind of harsh, but the book gives a great plan for discipline and a more effective way to do time outs. It has helped me in disciplining my four children.

I would say that your discipline must be swift and painful--not physically--but there must be immediate response to his adverse behavior and he must be able to predict that it is going to happen. ei, "When I talk back to my mother...X happens, and I do not like X."

He is going to test it for a while...maybe a LONG while. You can never waiver. You do not want to have an issue over everything, but when you do you cannot be seen in his eyes to have lost. You are the parent. The Boss. Dad has to back you up as well. This is TOTALLY a parenting issue. Remember that our job as parents is to populate the world with responsible citizens. That is our JOB.

Make sure that you and Dad do not argue, call names or disrespect each other in front of him (or at all!) Set up his time-out so that there is NO playing going on during it. A chair in the middle of the room is good, but do not send him to his room if everything that he likes is in there. You might have to take all of the fun stuff away. Be prepared to totally change how you react to his behavior. It is hard at first, but I am telling you as a mother of four--three of whom are past 6--this works! Be just as quick to reward good behavior. Give him toys and television back as his behavior changes for the better.

Consequences to bad and good behavior decisions that he can control are the key. Do some research. Try "Love and Logic Parenting" it works like a charm! It is hard on us, because generally speaking it is not how we were raised--but I love the results! Foster Cline and Jim Fay devised this system and wrote the books. It is based on one of them learning to raise foster kids to adulthood with good results. These books are the key to sane parenting!

good luck,
C. D

Things to THINK about .... please do this with each one.

1. What's happening at school? Problems there?

2. Is the two year old getting way too much attention and your son always getting scolded for minor things?

3. Are you taking time to HEAR your son? Ask him what he is feeling when he is angry. ( Do it when he is not angry and LISTEN!!!)You may need to change YOUR behavior.

4. WHY and WHEN did his behavior change from what he used to be like?

5. Are you both being FAIR with your discipline?

6. Are you telling and showing him how much you LOVE him?

7. Are you taking TIME for just him? He needs to feel special too even though he is not two.

8. Are you TOO TIRED to be patient. Patience will bring great rewards.

9. Realize he is just a little kid and would like to be happy. Something or someone is hindering that progress. What can you do?

10. It is your responsibility to help him develop into a socialized, balanced and happy adult. Everything you do now has a part in whether you are successful or not.

11. Whenever a mother HAS to work out of the home, she is leaving the rearing of her children to someone else and what you get may not be what you planned for. That's not the child's fault.

12. Being a parent HAS GOT TO GO BACK to being the wonderful calling it was always meant to be. A very sacred one..

13. REMEMBER..."The GREATEST WORK you will ever do, will be within the walls of your own home".

I just want to tell you that I am having the same problem with my daughter who is almost 5. For me the hardest part is that nearly EVERYONE thinks this is a parenting problem. I'm not saying I do things perfectly. But I do know what I'm doing. I studied early childhood development in college, I have a 6 year old who had no issues and a 2 year old that doesn't really unless she's trying to copy her older sister. But her "episodes" don't really last since she isn't truely meaning them. I know what you're talking about, and we are at our wits ends here. We have tried many different approaches to see if something would work better for her, and so far nothing has. We will think we've made progress, and then we take a huge leap backwards. The hardest part is, she tries. We really feel that when the emotional reaction starts, she honestly can't control herselves. It's really taking a toll on the family and we are actually in the process of going to see a psychologist. At this point we are ready to try just about anything! We did talk to the pediatrician and this is where she referred us for the next step. The Psych can help tell us if this is parenting, ADHD, Depression... anything that these reactions could be an indicator of. We are hopeing so badly that this will help us out. Even if she doesn't "have" anything... if they can help us learn to help her that's all we're asking for.

I guess I didn't have advise, but I was feeling bad because if you are in the same space I am, this isn't a parenting problem and I didn't want you to think you were alone out there! Good luck, and if you need to vent/complain/cry/anything else, I'm here!

Hi C.,

Lots of kids react in negative ways when they have to endure consequences for misbehavior. It can be hard to do, but his behavior will improve if you ignore his reaction to the consequence and not give it any emotional energy. As a parent coach, I specialize in helping moms respond effectively to misbehavior. Time outs and taking away privileges are great for the short term, but usually do not teach your child what you want him to do. If you feel that these are effective tools with him and you want to stick with them, then I would suggest that you follow-through with it and ignore his reaction to the consequence. So, for example, if you have taken away a privilege and he retaliates by screaming or name calling. Completely ignore the "after affects." Just let him know the consequence for his initial misbehavior and leave it at that. Do not let him let the situation spiral out of control by becoming distracted by his reaction, no matter how heinous it is. I would also sit him down at a time when you are all calm for a family meeting and set up some clear boundaries: We are respectful to others. The rules are that we do not name call or scream at each other. The consequence will be a time-out if you are not respectful. I will put you back in the time out chair until you have completed your 6 minutes without getting up. When your 6 minutes are over, I will let you know again why you had a time-out, ask for your apology, and give you a hug. If he screams and spits while he's in time-out, completely ignore him.

Check out my website for more help with discipline and think about the possibility of switching from punishment to teaching. This doesn't mean you let your kids get away with stuff, it just means that you teach them how to behave better through skill building and tell-me and show me discipline.

Raelee
www.noblemother.com

Go right now and buy the book 123 Magic...read and apply it and it WORKS. We adopted identical twins when they were 5 and had been in foster care for 2.5 years...we had to start from please and thank you and don't throw your trash on the floor and they were terribly competitive for many reasons I prefer not to go into. I am not a big "book" fan but their therapist recommended this and it works...we adapted it a little to fit our style better but even my father...a tried and true disciplinarian recognized how the girls responded!!! another hint for twins...we have our girls one goes first on odd days and one goes first on even days...this is used to settle any dispute...who ever's day it is wins and the other one knows their day is tomorrow...it has settled so many arguments and we don't have to keep up with who did what or had what first.

Hi C.,

Instead of using punishment, try using positive reinforcement. I know this is difficult and may seem counter-productive, but I have seen it work in the past. Give him a chart on a poster board or dry erase board, and let him earn stars with good behavior and small chores etc. Give him an extra each time he does something nice for his brother and when he uses good manners etc. He will earn a lot of stars in the beginning and then later as it loses it's appeal, he will start to misbehave. That is when you start taking the stars away. If the behavior escalates, you will just walk over to the chart and pull a star off. It gives him a concrete way to measure good versus bad behaviors. It also gives you the ability to control the situation. Try not to lose your temper. Sometimes kids like to "get a rise" out of us. Try to be level headed and just quietly say -- "wow, you are losing a lot of stars today, You are not going to get your prize like this."

The key is your discipline at keeping up with the chart. I only had one child when my son was that age, so didn't have this problem as much, but I have a friend who had two little girls and she reported much of the same behaviors you are speaking of. She uses the star chart with great success.

By the way, you should have a key on the chart that shows what each star or a number of stars equals. Use a currency he understands. Say, if he loves Hotwheels, then 10 stars can equal one Hotwheel car. You need to make sure you follow through either way. If he earns the stars, the next time you go to the store you should get the prize. I would also stick to rewards you would buy either way. Kids don't need to know we would buy the toy without the stars, but that way you are not breaking the budget, he is just learning to earn his rewards.

I look at things this way, if I go to work and do a good job every day, I get paid. If I mess up in society I pay a fine. It is a very simple logic.

Good Luck!

Hi C.,
I also have a six year old son and the thing that is important in our situation is is that my son tries to make us proud of him. I guess it all began with learning to walk and potty training. He always wanted to do good. That didn't mean he doesn't act out! He does and when he does, he got a pop on the bottom. I know there are many that are against putting their hands on their children but you know, it seems to cure what some people automatically call ADHD sometimes. I know that ADHD is real and I'm not knocking it but sometimes the child is just looking for some one on one time and knows that they can get your attention by acting out. I hate to compare them to animals but a dog will pee and poop anywhere to get your attention. It may be negative but they are getting your attention. After popping on the butt or putting him into time out, I always sit with him and let him tell me why he was placed there or punished and why he did the action that got him in trouble. Then I explain to him why it is not correct and what he should have done instead or should do the next time. I also ask him what I've just said to make sure he was listening. I always make sure that I let him know that I still and will always love him. At other times of the day, I make sure I let him know that I'm proud of some little thing he did to help out and I make a big deal when he does well in school. I also have a three year old and she gets time outs and sometimes, if severe enough, she'll get a pop on the bottom too. Like when she decides to bite her brother. When I talk to my dad about raising us and asking him what worked with us because I remember my brother and I being very well behaved he told me that it was because he used the belt on us and we knew better to act out if we didn't want it. Allot of adults will say that they didn't get into trouble because they feared their parents... now days, the parents fear the child and that's why so many of them are in trouble. Have you ever tried sitting with your son alone and ask him why he is acting the way he is? Is there something at school that he doesn't understand or if he's angry about the way something is going at home? Just stay calm no matter what the answer and give plenty of hugs and reassurance that you'll be there for him. I know it can be hard... I've been doing it alone for the past two years because my husband is overseas. I hope things work out better for you and if the simple things don't work for you, seek your pediatricians advice.