4 Year Old Who Lies Lies and Lies Some More :(

Humor it and go along with it, with a wink, so he knows you know he is "pretending." At 4, it's pretending, not lying.

How would I go about it? I would be a lot more playful about it, and not make a big deal about it.

With a 4-year old sometimes they don't understand the difference between the way they WANT things and the way they are.

A good solution is to help him change the language he uses to express himself. You didn't give any examples, but if he's like typical 4-year olds he will often come up with "tall tales," or say he didn't do something when he obviously did etc.

Next time he tells you something that isn't true, ask him if he's telling you something that really happened, or a Tall Tale. Explain that a Tall Tale is something that you wish would happen, or that you are pretending happened. Let him know it's okay to wish for things or pretend things happened that didn't really happen, but if he tells someone he needs to tell them first it's a Tall Tale. If he doesn't tell someone first that it's a Tall Tale, then he's lying and he could be punished.

If he's lying about something that he did or didn't do let him know that you KNOW the truth and there's no sense in lying about it. Then give him a chance to "rewind" and try telling you the truth.

Also, recognize that sometimes, from THEIR perspective, it's not a lie.

My daughter is 10 and now her Tall Tales have been turned into short stories. We also still use the "rewind." She will start to lie, then look at our faces (and see that we're not buying it) and then she will say "okay, rewind. I didn't clean my room, I'll go do it now."

Good luck!

Is it possible he lies to avoid the consequences of telling the truth? He says he cleaned up his room because he knows he'll be in trouble if he didn't.

At 4, most of what they say is related to what they wish it was instead of what is. They live a wonderful fantasy life.

I handled lying at this age with my grandchildren by responding with "that's the way you wish it were." Mostly they'd nod and say yes.

My daughter took the attitude that lying, no matter the circumstances, was wrong and her daughter still lies. I suggest that if one can be more accepting while teaching telling the truth one will have a better chance of teaching their children not to lie.

Recognize the lie for what it is. Fantasy. Then talk about the truth if it's important to tell the truth at that moment. I remember one time that my granddaughter told me that her aunt lived across from the school. I said, wouldn't that be great but you know she doesn't. She insisted that was true. I changed the subject. Makes no sense to cause the child to dig in their heels, so to speak.

He doesn't understand, at 4, because that part of his brain isn't developed yet. Just keep accepting the lies as fantasy while reminding him of the truth.

I also suggest that it's appropriate to ignore some lies. An emphasis on the lies just causes the child to lie more, in my experience. Emphasize the truth when truth is important. Identify the lie as fantasy the rest of the time.

Later: Your son is normal. Your son is not developmentally able to understand about lies. Visiting the police station will not be helpful as far as stopping the lying. They have no magic way to increase your child's mind development. Yes, they can tell him about being a good citizen and telling the truth but it will not change your son's ability to know the difference between a lie and fantasy.

Later: We get what we focus on. Focus on him telling lies and he will continue to lie. Focus on telling the truth and he'll more quickly learn about telling the truth.

For me, it's hard to answer your question because you don't specify what he's "lying" about.
If he takes a cookie when he was told not to and is standing there with crumbs and mushy cookie dribbling down his chin, that's obviously being dishonest.

If he tells you he has a magic dragon who takes him flying around, that's fantasy and make believe, imaginative and perfectly normal. It's not the same as "lying" and being deliberately deceptive.

It takes time to teach a child the difference between pretending and lying and there IS a difference.

Here are my own rules for how I handle an untruth:

1. Suss out whether it is a fantasy, a story to impress others, or an avoidance of a suspected consequence.

2. If it is a story/fantasy, acknowledge it as such. (Much what Marda described.) If it is a story meant to impress, explain that friends will be confused or upset-- usually this is done as a question ("How do you think Tommy will feel if he comes over and doesn't see a horse/guitar/etc.?" )
If it is avoidance of a consequence, I'm pretty firm that he must always tell me the truth, because I need to know.

3. I NEVER ask about something I already know the answer to. That is an invitation to lie. However, if a lie is offered beforehand (as in Amy J's situation) then we talk about the fact that what he said was not true.

4. The consequence itself is, whenever possible, relates to the broken rule. Ate a cookie and then tried to deny it? I will often send him to his room with an invitation to "come back when you are ready to tell me what *really happened*." (For my kid, this is a punishment, because he hates being sent away from the action.) When he's ready to tell us the truth, the consequence is that we have no treats for the rest of that day and the next day as well. (this takes care of sneaking food.) If something had been broken of someone else's, after he's told the truth, we must fix it or he pays for it from his piggy bank. (Which at this age doesn't amount to much, but we empty it all the same.) If it's his own toy, we just do not replace it.

5. I try to stress the importance of telling the truth at neutral times, when we are not upset with each other. This happens through conversations and stories.

My son is four and a half now. My biggest focus when it comes to lies is that when parents ask a question, we need to tell what's true/what really happened in Real Life so that parents can make good choices for the child.
And if one of those "Daddy said I could" lies comes up, no matter what it is he wants to do, we tell him he can't. Not because we didn't want him to do that fun thing, but because he wasn't telling me what was true. I always double-check the 'Daddy said' ones to make sure there's no miscommunication.

I've found that 'truth' and "lies" are harder abstract concepts for younger kids to sometimes understand, but that 'real' and 'pretend' or "make believe" work more efficiently.

And here's some food for thought: Po Bronson's article on how children learn to lie~

http://nymag.com/news/features/43893/

It is very normal and even healthy for children between the ages of four and six to lie. I am a licensed clinical social worker and I have worked with families and have taught parenting skills for approx 10 years.
Children under than 6 (and most 7 year olds) do not have the cognitive ability to distinguish between reality and fiction. That is why it is so easy for them to believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy, etc. Even if you do not promote those beliefs in your home or your child is intellectually gifted she/he still has limited insight and judgement because she/he has the life experiences of a four year old. He also has the limited brain development of a four year old. The fact that he lies and then denies it means he is right where he needs to be developmentally. Instead of convincing him he should tell the truth, cut to the chase and say something like, "I know you are lying, lying is against the rules in this house and your punishment(or "consequence"/put your own word in) is such and such." (whatever you use as a consequence). Do not get caught up in arguing about whether or not he did or did not lie. In his mind he did not, but he also knows he is not telling things the way they really are. He has yet to understand how "not telling things the way they really are" equals lying.
Just because it is appropriate for him to lie does not mean he should be allowed to do so. He needs to hear from you (his "moral authorities") that it is wrong to lie. Eventually, when he is able to discern between reality and fiction he will have the correct moral compass and be motivated to tell the truth. In the mean time, help him to identify each lie that he makes by marking it with a consquence and wait this period out. If you are wondering about consequenting him even though it appears he "cannot help it" think of it this way... Young children do not share well either but we encourage or make them anyway. Young children frequently make loud and inaproppriate remarks about strangers in public, and we tell them "sshh!" even though they have no idea why. Young children don't understand bedtimes, why they have to eat yucky food like vegetables and wear coats in the winter but we enforce these rules anyway. With a "no lying" rule, you are just enforcing another rule along with all of the rest of them that they do not understand. Eventually he will catch on. Try to enjoy the explanations he creates, he will be a little genious (not a sociopath) during this time period and his inplausable excuses will suddenly become funny once you understand the reasons behind them. Just try not to let him see you laugh.
PS. I have twin 8 year old boys and went through the same thing you are going through. It will pass and at this age it is not a sign of bad parenting or something being wrong with the child. Hang in there and let other people who may be a caregiver for him know he is in this phase and to "not believe everything they hear" from him.

Get him out of this habit by trying to Never put him in a situation where he may lie to stay out of trouble. I think it is human nature to want to stay out of trouble, to avoid spankings, time outs and scoldings. If he has cookie crumbs, and two witnesses, don't ask him if he took a cookie. Dont ask did you clean your room, say I'll be checking in your room in 15 minutes, I better like what I see! continue explaining but try to avoid these situations for a while.

Also Veggie Tales has a movie called Larry Boy and the Fib from Outer Space. It's a great story about not telling lies. My kids love it.

My three year old (almost four) is learning the gravity of lying. I agree with you, it's very important to nip it early. That means coming down hard on little lies-I mean, what lie is a child going to tell that's serious? Of course the lies will be silly, but it's serious to lie, period.

I find that around 2 1/2 kids start to understand lying when you explain it. Definitely by three. THEN we started with giving praise for telling the truth and NO CONSEQUENCE for the action, no matter what it was, as long as they told the truth. This way, they got used to the pay off for telling the truth, and had time to learn what lying was. HOWEVER, it is totally NATURAL for the lies to continue a bit and you have to get firmer as the child gets older and you know they totally understand what they are doing.

By lies, I mean point blank, saying they did not climb up on the counter and eat a cookie when they did. Yes, it's cute, but it's lying to avoid trouble, which is the root of all lies and it's easier to illustrate the gravity now than to let it continue. Also, we've never disciplined a tall tale or creative story ever. Just point blank lies.

Now my son is almost 4. He is EXTREMELY good. He hardly ever gets disciplined. He is sweet and conscientious and very well behaved. We have always given firm discipline for very serious things like aggression, overt defiance or tantrums, etc, so he does not do those things. However, he is still experimenting with a bit of lying, and it's one of the very few "serious things" given maximum penalty right now, because I do NOT want him to think lying is no big deal. I was raised the same way, and have always been very honest. I would not DARE lie to a parent (until I was a teenager that is now and then by omission..and felt terrible...my conscience is always in overdrive honestly...)

Anyway. The other day, horror of horrors, he point blank told me he did not eat a cookie from the high cabinet when he did. Both sisters witnessed it, and the stool was still in place and the crumbs were on his mouth. Was I mad that he ate a cookie? No, I thought it was adorable and hilarious, but we do not back down on lies. I firmly told him I was not mad that he ate the cookie but he knows it is not OK to lie. He was profusely apologizing and fully understood what he did, but this has happened several times, so he got a pretty firm spanking. After which he kept saying he was sorry, and I hugged him and explained that I love him and I know he's a good and honest person and it's my job to make sure he knows he shouldn't lie.

He'll get it soon. Honestly, he's only done it a few times and he catches on to all these things very quickly. If he was a little older, I would remove something very valuable etc, but he's still too young to have the attention span for delayed consequences and a spanking is the worst calamity in his little world and very rare, so it is the most effective for him. He has no favorite toys he would care about losing. He was still saying sorry later that day, and I reassured him it was fine and kept briefing him on honesty. He also gets big hugs and appreciation for the truth.

This works for us. my oldest, 5, only lied once or twice, and even my two year old says her own name if you ask her who spilled something. She watches very closely when her sibs get disciplined, and avoids a lot herself because of it.

***Edit: Sandy. I didn't ask him. He came up and declared he did not eat a cookie. Regardless, there is no harm in teaching lessons rather than avoiding lessons. I'd rather have kids who tell the truth than ones I have to ask things a "certain way" so they don't lie.

When a child is 2 or 3 we play peek-a-boo. At that age it is common for a child to actually believe that if their eyes are covered and they cannot see us, then we cannot see them. By age 4, that understanding has usually matured. But, in the same way, the 4 year old seems compelled to believe that, if they can convince themselves of some fantasy, then it will become true for others.

You are right to not just wink and look the other way. Each lie provides a teachable moment. The important thing to consider is to teach in a way that strengthens virtue rather than diminishing a child's enthusiasm for learning and experimenting.

Most 4 year olds do not have the guile to plot their lies. It is usually just an impulse to say things the way they want them to be rather than how they are, as if saying it that way might actually make it 'become' true. It is simply experiments that help the child discover how much they are able to influence their environment.

I do feel it is important to teach children to value trust and being trustworthy. I have found that it works best to teach them that we have to 'learn' to stop and think about if we are saying the truth or saying what we wish was the truth. I try to help them understand that, just like we learn to dress ourselves and brush our own teeth, we also learn to keep our trustworthiness strong by saying things that others can trust to be true. The more we keep our trustworthiness strong, the more others can trust us. Then I read them the story of the boy who cried wolf so they can contemplate the result of not keeping trustworthiness strong.

The thing that has been proven to be harmful is to focus on shaming the child, calling them a lier, or even using the word 'lie'. The reason is that the young child is normally not plotting to deceive. So, I would never discuss the 'badness' of lying at that age. Rather, I treat it as a learning process.

When I become aware of a 4 year old telling a lie, I ask them, "What were you trying to make happen by saying it that way?" I might learn that they were trying to actually accomplish something good and were using the lie in an effort to remove an obstacle that seemed to be in their way. I might learn that they were being playful and thought it would be fun to trick someone. But, once I learn what they were attempting to accomplish, then we can talk about how to choose goals and accomplish them in a way that protects our trustworthiness. I might also add a bit about how hard it is to maintain a lie and how embarrassing it is to be untruthful.

But, what I do feel is most important is to pay attention to all the times that the child is telling the truth. I try to 'catch' them telling the truth and point out that truthfulness helps make them more trustworthy. Then I thank them for learning to become someone I can trust. I might occasionally tell them stories about how trustworthy people have the opportunity to do great things in the world and how much our families and communities rely on truthfulness.

But, excessive lying can also be the result of the child feeling that people expect more than he is capable of. When a child is older and has a learning difficulty, they often cannot process information well or quickly enough to please others and they grow to hate the constant disappointment they are met with. They often develop the habit of saying anything that might get a happier response out of their desire to feel more acceptable or to please others. This is not an excuse to accept the habit of lying. But, I do feel that if we are going to find the best way to help the child, we need to understand their motives.

In all my years of working with children, even some deeply troubled ones, I maintain the belief that we are all essentially noble and all in need of education. No matter how confused a child may be, there is a noble spirit within that wants to do well. When I speak to a child, I do not speak to a lier, or a thief. I speak to their noble spirit. I have found that when I do that, the noble spirit responds and thrives best when recognized.

One more note. The ability to feel shame is a benefit to us. But, it is important to help a child develop their own sense of embarrassment about their own poor choices and then help them understand how to regain their dignity as quickly as possible. It generally does not prove beneficial to 'shame' a child by humiliating them or making them feel you are ashamed of them. If they are only frightened of your shame, they may not ever develop their own sense of healthy shame within. I rarely use the word punishment. I prefer to use the word empowerment. I try to help the child see that a poor choice sells out our dignity and our power. We then need to do something to regain our powers (virtues). We often need a 'time out' to figure out how to do something differently or how to apologize or how to make restoration. I never treat a 'time out' as an act of ostracizing or rejecting the child.

What kind of lying? Tall tales and exaggeration or bold faced lying to avoid getting into trouble or to do something sneaky?

If he's doing what I consider normal "fibs" gently tell him that people can see through the tall tales and will stop taking him seriously in time. And that will hurt him in the long run, even if people seem to enjoy his tales or are impressed by his exaggerated adventures. Tell him it's just a bad habit to get into because people respect honesty and will laugh at those that make things up.

As for covering up dishonest and bad behavior with lies, this deserves swift and serious punishment. Remove privileges, time out in his room, or a favorite toy goes away for a couple of days, and if necessary and apology or remedy to what ever he covered up.

You don't want him to get away with this as it will quickly snowball into more serious lying and deception as he gets older. He needs to know now, while he's young and manageable that lying isn't tolerated at home.

Is he really lying or is he exercising a vivid imagination. Does he even comprehend what you are asking and is your interpretation of the question the same as his? You have to be able to tell the difference. At that age, I doubt he intentionally lies to get under your skin. I doubt he even knows that he is doing it.

Next time he "lies", ask him what makes him say what he said to get the real thought process behind it. For example you told him to clean his room and he picks up ONE toy, you go to the room and see the whole room still a mess. You ask him if he cleaned it up, he says "yes'..which in HIS mind he did..but you as the parent don't think picking up ONE toy is cleaning the room. So is he really lying in this case.

You should be clear to him what your definition of things are and let him repeat it back to you and then you can go from there to determine if he understands and is truly lying.

Long story short, when my daughter was about 5 or 6, we had a big problem with lying. I called the police non emergency number and asked if an officer would speak to her about it. I brought her down to the station and an officer had a discussion with her about being a good citizen (something she was already learning about in school)... it was not a scare tactic, more like a reminder that lying's not okay, and the officer was really kind about it. He even told me that parents bring their kids in for pep talks like that more than you'd think. Worked for my daughter, we never had a problem with it since then, and that was years ago!