Your Thoughts on Speaking About Skin Color

I guess I don't see the big deal. It seems painfully obvious that if you're pointing out a person standing in a group, and he's the only black guy, you're gonna say, "It's that black guy over there." And if it's a white person standing in a group of black people, you'll say, "It's that white guy over there." I haven't addressed this with my kids because the scenario holds no negative connotations about any particular race. I think its a mountain from a molehill, really.

I think it's just a description, like "Look over there at that blonde, or tall" man. I do say black or white, and I do not say African American very often. It's strange for me because I grew up in a country (Wales) where if you are black/ African American, you would be in an immense minority. To clarify, there was one black kid in my school of 500 children. He was never teased because of his color though.

I don't really understand why skin color is any different than hair color. It's being use as a description not in a derogatory way. It would be the same thing if my 4 year old was talking about "the boy in the blue shirt with the yellow hair"

color is just that - color - NOTHING ELSE. It is a description. I am black. I am white. I am purple. it is a descriptor.

I don't care what color someone is. It's HOW they TREAT others that matters to me.

Are you suggesting we shouldn't notice skin color? It's the MOST obvious, easily noticeable trait, when describing someone you know nothing about. We ARE all different. We DO have different skin colors. We DO notice it. That's a GOOD thing. That we can notice a person's skin color and identify them that way, and have it mean nothing but a description. (Not too long ago, saying "the black man" had terrible connotations behind it. It was meant and an offense, more then a description.) It doesn't mean it has to be a bad thing!! I can call a man black, because he is black. Just like I call a man tall, because he is tall. There is nothing offensive about identifying a person by the color of their skin, unless offense is intended.

Would I think anything of someone identifying me by the color of my skin, in front of my child or anyone else? Nope. That's the color of my skin.

Why NOT use skin color to describe a person? I think that AVOIDING mention of skin color creates and/or adds to issues with race rather than diminishing them. There is a great article (research based but written for the general public) called something like "How to Raise a Racist" which basically talks about how making children UNCOMFORTABLE with race by leads to bigotry.

There is also a hysterical Fresh Prince episode where the family of a white girl Will is dating try NOT to describe him as "black" and keep calling him "the TALL one" or "the guy with the pants" etc. It's ridiculous.

No one gets uncomfortable saying "oh the little blond one?" or "the one with the braids?" so why would mentioning skin color be any different if you don't have a PROBLEM with a race of people?

Kids absolutely NOTICE skin color (unless they have a vision problem). It's not a PROBLEM for them unless we make it one.

HTH
T.

For the record I am a biracial (black and white), African-American woman.

ADDED: It's only appropriate to use the term "African American" if the person actually IS a descendant of African slaves in America (or identifies as such). It's a cultural designation not a racial one (and not one you can make by LOOKING). "Black" describes a race of people and includes people all over the world (Caribbean, Africa, South America, Europe etc.). Describing someone as African American because they are black isn't more PC than saying "black" (especially if you are wrong).

I think it dies more damage to pretend t that there is no difference, skin color is just a good a description as hair style, accent,shirt color etc,,,.

Kids are fresh and there is no stigma attached to race for them. Describing a person including their skin color in the adjectives just seems natural to me ( pregnant white blonde wearing a brown shirt from Texas)

:0)

In my house it doesn't matter if the use of skin color is relevant. To me it matters if the use of skin color is used to insult or put down the person.

Perhaps it is just me but I want kids that don't put emphasis on color. Telling them they can't use color unless it is relevant puts emphasis on color.

Look at it this way. Did you see that car? What car? The blue car? Do you really think that person thinks the color of the car makes a difference to the value of the car? We just naturally describe by color first. It is just easier. Just in that case if there was more than one blue car you would say I think it is this make or more likely it had four doors. So now you have the black kid with braids or the blue car with four doors.

None of that is racist it is just the natural way our lazy minds work.

The thing with them being the only one in the blue shirt, who plays where's Waldo on a regular basis. It is unnatural to look at a person and try to pinpoint what makes them different and only them. You try to list enough things that someone can tell who you are talking about, skin color does that, it doesn't mean anything unless *you* want to make it mean something.

We will occasionally use color, because it's just one more characteristic. My son has braces on his teeth, and I have glasses, and neither of us would feel offended in any way if someone mentioned those things in describing us. If we refuse to acknowledge skin color - or hair color, height, or anything else - I think that sends a message that the color itself is shameful, or that noticing differences is bad. As long as it's a description, and not a judgement of value, I don't think there's anything wrong with including it.

As an aside, white friends of ours with a son our son's age adopted two children, one black and one Tongan. When my son and his friend were 11, the friend said something about being excited to meet his birth mother, and my son was puzzled. I started to explain the concept of "birth mother," and my son interrupted with, "I know that, Mom. I just didn't know that B had one."

"B and (his little brother) are both adopted. You didn't know that?" I asked.

"No!" said my son.

"You never noticed that they looked absolutely nothing like their parents?"

"No!"

"You never noticed that B is black and his parents are very white?"

"Well, I guess," he said, "but I never really thought about it." To him, it was just one more characteristic, like noticing that someone is blonde, or wearing boots, or playing football. It didn't occur to him that it meant anything in particular. I think that's a good thing.

it seems your overly sensitive. Believe me if its a group of African Americans dont you think they do the same? When talking person specific? That white girl in the pink skirt... that describes the ONE they are talking about with out having to go into detail to pin point the 20 other white girls in other clothes. I am white. I have white parents. My father is 1/2 Native American, he looks it. We dont. When at a family reunion on his side, we dont say... that indian over there. THOUGH we do say... man your darker than me how did that happen???
My sister has a mixed race African American son. He is dark skinned. Black to most. We say black, we kid about it. He doesnt get peeved. HE DOES get peeved if they say it in a derogatory manner.
My kids are India- Indian mixed. They are all over the board on color. Most of the kids say my daughter M. is the brown one. Lots of them refer to her as brown. It doesnt bother me unless they act like they are trying NOT to bother me. I once was at a Indian party and was referred to as the whitest Indian in the room. Kinda ticked me off but then its cause I was the minority. I think its just a way to describe, not to offend. I think if it was used with other derogatory actions, and words then it would be more offensive. Now a days, this country is so racial mixed there is no "good" way to describe anyone. To be overly sensitive about it, will just set you up to expect it out of everyone you see, and then you will start being labeled the "Angry Black Lady" Thats far worse

Who cares how you describe a person as long as the point is madeand it isn't offensive? I am white...it doesn't bother me if someone says white or black...that is the fact of the matter. Too many take it as a racial thing....it is just an adjective. Simmer.

Do you find yourself bothered only when/usually when the person is not of your same race? Is it a problem only when/usually when they are speaking about someone your own race? I mean would it bother you if an AA person or white person said, "The white girl in the gray shirt"? I'm not accusing, just asking, because I see things get interpreted based on the race of the involved. :) I do understand what you are are saying. I just think it sticks out to you more than it would if they weren't talking about your own race or if they happened to be AA. Have you been subjected to racism or racial ignorance? I'm asking that because such experiences can leave people on high alert.
As long as my children don't view people as inferior/superior and aren't pointing out race in a negative way then I'm okay with them using race as a point of reference. Best wishes.

I have some of the same feelings as you, regarding asking my kids not to describe people solely by their skin color ( I am white, but grew up in a multi-racial family). The only reason I may think that is sort of silly though, is that pretending like kids don't notice skin color is not very helpful either. I am a teacher and remember in the 80's we were "supposed" to teach kids to ignore color. Well, that just doesn't work in my opinion - especially if you live somewhere there is a racial minority of any kind. Kids are always going to notice differences in people - especially if it is different than themselves. I now jsut make sure to talk openly about the differences and notice that the more I expose my kids to many different cultures, the less they describe people by skin color. If they aren't used to seeing many people of a specific color, I think it is sort of silly to expect them not to say anything - remember tehy are hopefully still fairly innocent and noting skin color to them may seem jsut the same as noting shirt color - good luck!

I think what you were experiencing, standing there at the meet, was someone reaching out and talking to you about kids and people who were there, physically pointing out someone in a crowd, and telling you something about them. They described the person the best they could. The swimmers are all in their bathing suits, and unless they were all black, you wouldn't know which one that really good swimmer was. Now, it he were white, or Asian, or Indian, in a group of all one color, your friend would have pointed out that white, Asian, or Indian kid.

They feel comfortable enough with you as a person, whether you are friends or not, to think that mentioning the color of one's skin is not going to offend you. Evidently it does, or you are trying to figure out if it should offend you, or you wouldn't be discussing it here.

I hope you will give these folks the benefit of the doubt that they were not dissing your color or anyone else's. I hear stuff like this all the time. It's really very normal. And unless they are throwing around rude remarks and sterotyping behaviors that have nothing to do with the person standing there, mentioning color is simply a descriptive term.

Dawn

When my daughter was young, say 4 and 5 years old, she would say, "The brown girl ovet there is my friend." For instance, if we were at McDonald's play place. I think it's normal when they are young because it is the most obvious distinction. I've never understood the whole, "I don't see color" thing because of course we do. It's a color. We see it. When they are young it is the most obvious distinction. It just isn't the most important one, so it isn't one I want my kids to use to identify someone. I just gently redirected and guided her. "What is her name? What color is her shirt? Then let's use that, instead."

We are a family made up of many, many cultures. It's like a patchwork quilt. So, they are used to people looking not like themselves and it's no big deal. It's just a matter of manners, I think, like most other things.

I don't think it's a "bad" thing in the way you've described it. Kind of like saying "the blond lady in the blue shirt", right? I mean, I'm blonde, and it wouldn't offend me to hear someone point out "the blonde lady" in a crowd.....

When my son was starting to notice skin colors, I made very much a non issue by having him compare his forearm to mine, showing him that even though we are both Caucasian, our skin colors are different from O. another's. From there, when he would notice a difference, we would kind of come back to that slight difference between us, and note that this particular difference was more pronounced.

Funny--skin color isn't a big deal to my son, at all. I was surprised a few years back to meet O. of his best classroom buddies at a class party and he was VERY dark brown. My son never mentioned it--that his bud had radically darker skin. He just referred to him by his name. So....we will refer to players, classmates, etc. by "darker skin?" "Lighter skin?" "Skin like Steve's" etc. It's a matter of fact to us--just like any other identifying trait. Used as an identifying "qualifier" I guess (LOL) when other attempts have failed.....

I don't' see it as a big deal. It's the most efficient way to describe someone. I mean really, someone saying " the black guy with the blue shirt on. " lets you know you aren't looking for a white guy or an Indian guy, etc. Your skin color is the most obvious thing about you, it does cover your whole body. That is unless you were wearing a huge hat with a bunch of flowers on it. Then something like " look at that lady in the HUGE hat with all the flowers" Cause a huge hat with flowers is pretty dang obvious. See what I mean? I don't really see the problem in using the best description tools available when describing a person.

Anyway my kids know that skin color is just skin color, like that red crayon is red it's just a description. It has nothing to do with the person.

First of all, I do know for a fact that even the smallest of kids are very aware of their color and looks and the other people's skin color and looks. When my older son was little we lived in a country where most people were Caucasians with light hair and eyes. My son saw a dark man when he was about 1.5 y/o he was very intently staring and when we passed by, he made a sad face, I asked why, and he rubbed his tummy and said; "He is sick". I said to him that the man was not sick, it was normal for him to be that way, he just has that look naturally. My boy was very surprised at that. It was a great news for him.
Another incident, just to give you an example, my little guy, at about the age of 3 was arguing with me when I insisted he comes to the bathroom with me at the Disney World in Hong Kong. My last argument was: "I cannot just leave you outside, someone may just grab you and take you away." His response was: "It is not possible, they look different from me, they cannot take me, everyone can see, I do not belong with them, Mommy."
I, personally, would not get offended if a kid said: "That tall white lady with a pixy cut over there", for example. They do not know me, they just trying to point me out. I frequently ask my son about his school mates when he is talking about them: "Which one is that? " and he would say something like: "You know, him, the skinny Korean kid with short hair".
Another thing is, people tend to use race to describe someone when this person is a minority of the certain group, it makes it easier to pinpoint the right person right away. It is just a way to zero in on the most descriptive thing about the person. It is like if you were looking at the group of women in pants and one in a skirt, all of the same race, height and built. You would say :"Hey, it is that one in a skirt."
The descriptions that I would not consider appropriate would be saying that someone is fat or ugly, or other things that speak badly about a person. But the race, is a normal thing about a person and not offensive and it is who they are and what makes them special.

I wonder if it's because where you live there are not many black people, so it's just a matter of convenience and ease to refer to the "black" one?
It seems to be that way around here. My community is mostly white and Asian, with a healthy mix of Indian and middle eastern and just a handful of black families.
I have noticed in conversations some people will say "oh you are talking about so-and-so, he's the African American one, right?"
Oh my we are so PC in Northern California!
And the black kids here are very popular (they deserve to be, they are great kids, like I said there are only a few and they are very well liked.) But I can see where this would rub you the wrong way.
I'm white as can be, married to a Filipino and my kids are dark and beautiful. I have sometimes found myself referring to "that white guy at Nation's" (because most of the staff is Mexican) or "that white woman who runs the Shell station" (because again, all of her employees are dark.) Maybe it's subconscious, I don't know, but you're right skin color shouldn't matter any more than hair color does.
Can you imagine someone saying, oh yeah, that's the guy with the shoulder length sandy blonde highlights? NOT!!!
ETA: I went to a mostly Mexican high school, and I was often referred to as "that white girl from drama" (I was a theater geek)

My daughter is 5 and tries her best to describe people. When she started school she would tell me about the girl with long yellow hair or the dark skinned boy. I think skin color is a part of who we are (no matter what the shade is) so that would become part of describing someone.

Now if I was trying to point someone out that was a male and there were 3 men standing in the same area I would try to use clothing colors or hair style first, but I have described someone as the dark skinned person or the one with blonde hair. It is never meant to offend anyone. I think we all have other features that could be pointed out but they could also be inappropriate, like the one with the big nose, skinny legs, big bum etc.

I also teach my daughter that the world is much better with colors, that's what God intended. If we all looked the same it would be so boring.

ok maybe it's cuz i'm white ;) just kidding!

but i don't really get it. i mean, that person WAS black. it wasn't said offensively.

my son has one little black friend in his class and before i had even thought about the 'issue' (because i don't think it is one) he was talking about "savannah, you know mom, the brown girl." he was 4. she IS brown. it's a physical fact.

i did eventually correct him and told him, "baby we call people with dark skin like that black. i know, she is brown, not black. but that's what people call it." in fact we were laughing about it because i have a little brother who is 15 years younger than me - when he was about 3-4 he was OBSESSED with football (Go CHIEFS!). at 2 he was rattling off the names of the starting lineup. anyway, he did the exact same thing. he didn't know they were called "black". he described them because, just like my son, they looked "BROWN" to him. my mom had to tell him just like i had to tell my son, "they're called black." it's perfectly natural for kids to describe what they see like that.

i never said anything else to him about it. but six or eight months later, the other day he casually mentioned to me, something about "black man" (i think he was talking about an athlete on tv.) i kind of smiled to myself and thought, "wow he really does listen to me sometimes!" :)

i mean...as a black woman, do you think it's because you are sensitive about it? it does kind of sound that way to me...but as a white woman who has never really had to worry about race issues (not because i'm white but because the black people in my life were never really catagorized as "BLACK", they're just people.) i just don't consider it an issue.

it's not offensive to me when someone says, "oh she has blue eyes." i wouldn't be offended if someone said, "it's that girl with brown hair." ya know?

the only time i might be offended by someone categorizing me by a physical feature would be if someone said, "it's that fat girl over there." but that would hurt my feelings only because i'm sensitive about my weight. but that's because deep down i'm ashamed that i let myself get this way...i'm not ashamed that god gave me blue eyes and brown hair.

make sense? no big thing. just a thing. i feel i am raising my son right.

(kinda silly off-the-subject story: i'm left handed. people seem to tiptoe all around the race issue, but they sure have no problem going "OMG you're left handed! that's so wierd! look how you're writing!!" or my favorite, "wow you write really neatly for a leftie." now if i wanted to i could really take that offensively...lol. people are so dumb sometimes.)

Well, if I were one of VERY few white people in an auditorium, I would think it completely understandable that someone might distinguish me as the white lady in the pink shirt.

It's just the easiest and most obvious distinction.

But, sure, you raise a valid point, we SHOULD make more of an effort to be PC.

:)

I'm multi-racial myself, and I do use skin color as an identifier. In school, they actually teach that skin color is one way to describe a person. I don't think it should be the only way to describe a person, but I don't see a reason to actively avoid it. Like others have pointed out, nobody thinks it's weird to descriibe someone by the color of their hair or eyes. I think avoiding skin color actually can draw more attention to it (like when you're referring to the only person of a different skin color in a group), and make it seem like a taboo topic. Kids might wonder if there's something wrong with being a different skin color since it's not ok to talk about. As long as skin color is just being used as a descriptor and not in a derogatory way, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I'm trying to teach my kids not to use physical descriptions of people (color, fat, whatever) but it's so confusing, because my daughter told my son not to say someone was "tall". Ugh.

I usually hear white people pointing out black people where we live, because there are far less black people, so if you're pointing out a white person, it could be anyone, so you need to default to shirt color....and it's habit. I'm not offended when I hear black people say, "white lady" or "white guy" etc, but I agree, we shouldn't use those terms. But I ALSO wish that all us moms could have a secret pact to give each other a pass on it when kids are tiny because they have no FILTER!

I was in Target with my kids and a (sorry) black family was there too, and my four year old son said, "Mom, guess what I saw?" when they were right there beside us trying on shoes. My heart sunk so scared of what he might say. He said, "I saw a child with doll hair". ??!! OK, the child had African American hair, nice and puffy, and somehow my son thought it was doll hair. He didn't mean it in a bad way, and he knows not to call people "black" so he was doing his best to not say anything "wrong" but UGH! Luckily the mom smiled at me like it was fine. Times like this I really HATE that our area is so white, because we rarely see black people. If we were in a more mixed area, I feel like it wouldn't be an issue, and my five-year-old does know better than to specify race or other physical things.

And no, my husband and I don't specify people by race in front of the kids, just like we don't swear. At least, we really try not to. And if we ever did, it would never be in a negative way.

We were just discussing this topic....because...

We live in Canada now. My kids school is 50% Chinese. My kids are 1/2 Caucasian/German (I'm from SoCalif, blonde, blue-eyed) and dad is Korean, kids are beautiful. I asked them do you consider yourself white or Asian while at school, they replied mixed.

Then our church is about 25 % African American....and then I thought...I don't know? Do Canadians say African America or Canadian African when speaking about black people who have never been to Africa? And the couples I have met at church actually are African. Mainly from Nigeria.

I still don't know the correct term for persons of African descent here in Canada. But I do know that if I say black in front of my husband he corrects me, and says that's politically incorrect. I heard much worse derogatory terms while I was an officer stationed in Louisiana.

I personally believe it's human nature to mention skin tone while trying to describe a person off in the distance, especially if readily obvious. There is nothing derogatory about including the color of one's skin in that context. It's just a fact.

I think it does seem to be the normal progression. however, that which is different with kids (unless they have learned otherwise) are connotations behind their words. For example, my 10 year old son often refers to his classmates either by their name or by ethnicity. Now, in our household, that isn't something I tend to do. When my son refers to a classmate as for example Filipino. I have said, doesn't he have a name? his comment back to me, what's the big deal. so and so always refers to himself as being Filipino .. It's not a bad thing , Mamma... It made me think.. umm , am the one who is the one with the hangup.. My son said he just says describes things and people as he sees them. He got me to thinking.. ok, that isn't a bad thing. Again, it's what is behind the words. It's kinda a double edged sword in today's society. on the one hand, we want kids to be proud of who they are and in doing as such, it also means owning their heritage. My son is Italian, Swedish, French, English, German and Polish. However, he identifies most with being Italian.. With that, I do get your point about stereotypes (such as the braids comment) on this end, we always hear "mafia jokes" or people assume due to our last name, we ARE associated with a well-known crime family..... However.. there is pointing someone's skin color out and or ethnicity (which often kids do out of innocence) and then their is just plain old stupidity and racism.. I tend to consider the person and who's making the comment.

I am white and grew up in Wisconsin in a predominantly white area to the point that people would ACTUALLY stop their cars in the middle of traffic if they saw a black college student walking down the street. We were totally white bread when I was growing up here.

I lived in So California for 10 years so I got used to and loved living in a racially and culturally mixed area.
So that's the background.

I guess I don't understand why the issue of skin color is any more important than hair color or eye color when discribing a person. Maybe I'm missing something but what is the difference if you say the 'black man in the blue shirt' or the dark curly haired man in the blue shirt' --- or 'the blond in the green dress' --or 'the white girl in the green dress' ?

Skin color is a part of a person defination or discription as is eye color, hair color, height, or weight. I think so many people are so concerned about being politically correct they are afraid to say black -white- Arab (Musilm) - Jewish, ect. Yet there is nothing wrong with the words it is how you use them.

Now I hate terms like spik--n word-chink- ect because those words are meant to hurt and spread hate.

I think it depends on what they mean by it. My SD used to describe her friends as, "Well, she has brown eyes and curly hair and she's brown and my other friend has curly hair, too, but it's red and she has freckles...." It was just a point of fact. It's just something about them. Like DD saying her friend doesn't celebrate Christmas. Well, that's right. She's Jewish. Kids will also (at embarrassing moments, usually) point out who is fat or balding or walks with a limp...it's normal for kids to group and compare/contrast. It's our job to teach them how to do so appropriately.

It may be that your own upbringing made you sensitive to this way of describing people in ways that it otherwise might not. You have a different POV. I'm not saying it's bad. But maybe you key in on things where no offense was intended. I was often in a school program where *I* was the minority (even being half Hispanic) and people would say, "the white girl with brown hair" (vs the white girl with the blonde hair which was my friend and only other really light skinned girl in the program). As long as they didn't call me something derogatory, I was okay with that. My own daughter will say she's NOT white. She's "peach." Paper is white.

So if it doesn't bother you but just makes you go "hmmm...." I'd let it ride. If someone was being nasty about it, then get mad. I also think we can be "too PC" and sometimes one person's preferred term is not another's and we just get twisted up and trip over ourselves vs really accepting someone as who they are.

I think it's kinda normal - I have a 5 year old who attends a very diverse daycare. Every once in a while he'll state "Miss Beverly is brown", which she is :) He'll also announce out of the blue "I'm beige", to which I say, yes, you are. I just tell him different people look different. He accepts it and doesn't bring it up very often. If they don't seem prejudiced, I think people just do the lazy description - extra adjectives? I'd say blue shirt unless it was a blue that could be confused with another color.

Edit: It also occurred to me that faces are what we look at first when we're looking for someone, so that's what gets described first?

I think that it's one of the very first things that we notice about people when we look at them and to try to ignore that fact makes it an issue. I get annoyed when people try to describe others to me and tell me everything but the skin color/race. That bit of information helps me to narrow my search considerably.

Here in Hawaii, it is VERY very culturally and ethinically diverse.

Kids grow up, amongst many cultures and colors of people.

I teach my kids about culture and ethnicity in relation to a person's culture.
Not in appearance.
ie: dark colored people are not ONLY African American... but also of Polynesian or Asian ancestry as well. So, color is not finite or decisive.
When my kids describe a person... I always teach them that they are of a different culture. And heritage. Not "race." So when my kids see others, they wonder about what culture that person may be from.
And because we teach them about the world, they know not to just go according to color.

My kids are mixed culturally and ethnically.
Which is very common in Hawaii. And because of that, people here do not go by only the color of a person's skin. Or by "race." But by, cultural heritage.

BUT, skin color is a description. Just like hair color.
If someone is describing someone, it is a description.
Not a "race" description. Unless their description was disparaging and pointedly related to only the color of their skin.

I am white and my husband is black, with our 3 kids obviously being mixed. I don't take kindly to anyone giving anyone a hard time about color. However, I feel that skin color is a way to identify a person, just as the blue shirt that the man was wearing. It's not being racist, and it sounds like you are a little over-sensitive to it. We are conditioned to think it's bad, but being black, white, purple, whatever is not bad. It's amazing to be who you are. Embrace it!

My youngest son told my husband the other day that my hubby was brown and he was white. We explained to him that he is mixed. My kids are very light toned - my 6 year old is hard to tell he is mixed if you didn't know better. But they call themselves mocha for color. They do use the peach color to color pictures of themselves and me, and the brown one for daddy. It's only bad if we make it bad. After all, it is only skin color and nothing else.

I think sometimes its just easier to describe someone that way. Doesn't make it right, just easier depending who is surrounding them.

Im just as guilty doing it... no matter what color of skin. If there is an equal mix then I say the skin color and some other focus point about them. If there isn't an equal mix then I just state the color.

We get it alot also with my son. He has a very pretty red/ copperish color hair and alot of people refer to him as the boy with the red hair. Well its pretty easy to tell who they are talking about since he is usually the only one. I dont' let it bother me, they are just stating a fact.

Its tough. I have had a hard time saying black and white in terms of skin color - its funny because I'm Indian (not native american) but I have no problem referring to my skin color as brown - LOL. Its only white and black that I find myself thinking about. And I really believe it is the politically correct aspect of it -. I am not at all racial and teach my kids that on a constant basis - that everyone is the same irrespective of their skin color - I really drum that into them because I do not like discrimination based on color! I wish I could just say black and white because I don't mean any offense - its just a color and I don't mean to be insulting. But someone else might be insulted hearing me. So when my kids say black or white in terms of skin color, I dont make a big deal of it - I just say dark skin, light skin and brown like ours :) . I don't want them to start catching themselves with the black and white in terms of skin color because then they start thinking about differences and that is when biases start. I so hope that does not happen!

Good luck. Nice post!

I usually use clothing and hair to describe people. If it's not enough (usually is) I use their complexion. Terms like brown skin, light skin. I do it this way because of perceived feelings that others are sensitive to using skin color. Plus, it's just not nessessary unless everyone is brown haired, blue eyed wearing a yellow shirt :).

If my kids say something about someone being black (DS called it green skin when he was little?? LOL) I try and direct them to using other markers because "you don't want to hurt anyones feelings" I don't think that African Americans have pure black skin so it's weird to say they do, just like Caucasian people don't have pure white skin.

I am caucasian if that makes any difference :)

Hi D.-

Interesting question!

Young kiddos are inevitably going to notice the color of skin...I mean it is 'there'...ALL over!

When My kiddos were very young...(2 to three the oldest) I was helping a friend with her toddler when she had to work some weekends and such. Her daughter was a dark complected toddler...they remarked that _____ had dark brown skin. I said she sure does!! And YOU have 'off white' skin...and YOU have tan skin...etc etc.

It kinda is/was what it was!

A few years later...when my daughter with congenital heart issues was born...some of the then younger kids commented on her 'blue' skin...(and it was...and still is sometimes...lol)

IDK...

In my house...to this day...skin is not so important really. Cultures are. Health issues are...PEOPLE are...

But for 'little ones'...skin IS a biggie!

I may have to observe more at their respective descriptions now...

But the fact I am having to 're listen' is a good thing...yes??

best luck!
michele/cat

My kids are too young to know the racial distinctions, although my 5 yr old has long referred to EVERY African-American man he has seen as "looking like President Obama," but he could never put an actual color to it. I don't use phrases like that with my kids--I say, "The gentleman in line," "the lady at the park with the sweet kids..." One day when they are older and know the names of different races, I am sure we will run into the issues, but for now I am just trying to model for them that they can say, "That gentleman with the globe on his shirt," or whatever other valid descriptor I can use without pointing at physical characteristics.

But, on the other hand, maybe you could look at it as being no different fron saying, "The lady with the brown, curly hair," or "the man with the goatee."

I can see both sides of this issue. I can see saying that 'black' person over there or 'white' person over there. I can't see saying it if it's done without prejudice and maybe just saying it is prejudice but I don't think it always is. Especially with children. It also depends on what the majority of the people are. One of our son in laws is black and when we went to visit his family and were the only white people there I realized how it feels to be the only one and to be called 'those white people' would not be making you feel very individual as a person or very respected really. On the other hand they were very nice and included us but we were able to experience being the only ones or the minority.
When our first kids were young, very young, they were a year apart white blonde and bright red headed boys. When we would go shop at the mall they saw other skin colors they had not seen much. My blonde son would NOT leave the little children alone and followed them every time I let go of his hand trying to feel their black hair. Was he prejudiced? NO, he saw a difference. He liked the difference. Kids accept it even though they notice it very much. An adopted child that my niece has is brown and he says all the time he wants to be white like his family. It's such a shame we are labeled so much by skin color. I'm just glad I'm not hearing 'she's that pale freckled lady over there' :-) I'd prefer they describe me in a much different way and so would most of us.
Does this make sense? I may have rambled a bit.

I've not read your other responses, but I'll give you my take on it. I'm white. My husband is black. Our kids are obviously mixed. My husband pretty much never refers to a person's skin color to describe them, even if it's clearly the quickest way to differentiate. I only do rarely, & same goes for our kids. I think because of my personal situation I'm more sensitive than the average Mama Bear to any sort of racism, but in the particular cases you've mentioned, those wouldn't even bother me. People will point out whatever is the most obvious differences in people if they're trying to point someone out. I don't think that makes them racists, but that's definitely based on the language & tone they're using as well.

drives me nuts! I grew up in the big city, we now live in a small town.

one of my cousins is the result of her mom being raped by a man. My cousin is bi-racial, & has never known her biological father. She was the only child of this color in our very tightly-knitted German-Irish-Italian neighborhood. She was harassed regularly by stupid kids repeating what their parents were saying at home. So sad.

As a child, I learned not to "name" by color. It was so hurtful to my cousin....that it became 2nd nature for me to be sensitive to this.

Living in a small town, it is very rare to see racial differences. Occasionally, it happens...but not often. My older son graduated with a young man. His family has lived here for about 10 years. His mother likes to dress in native costume. She wore full costume at the graduation. Our neighbors assumed the son was an exchange student & was amazed that the mom flew here from Africa.

OMG, I was horrified! I immediately stepped in & said, "excuse me? Are you talking about that beautiful mom in the orange print headdress?" Their response was, "yes, that black woman over there". Just shoot me now! This is a pastor of his own church....saying junk like this! A leader of our community....& totally getting the entire story wrong.

My mouth did not stay closed. My demeanor was sensitive, kind, but firm. I clearly stated, "Oh, no! They've lived here for years now. Their older son graduated 2 years ago! You've never met the _____? A very nice family. Our son always enjoys the time he spends with their sons".

Stopped them in their tracks. Mouths hanging open. I'm sorry, but I cannot imagine living in sooooo small a world.

When my sons describe people, I always stop them....& say, "okay, now repeat that to me, without any racial/disability/etc references". :)

I don't think you're being over-sensitive. I don't think you're asking too much. Kudos to you.

This is a tough one. I think many people, as Amy pointed out, gravitate toward choosing the descriptor that is most different from themselves, or perhaps, the area where they live.

That being said, I have always made a conscious decision, when describing a person to my daughter, to pick some other identifying characteristic first, and then skin color second, third, or not at all. We live in what used to be a predominately "white" area, and I grew up here, so I know what you're talking about.

We were once in a taxi in Miami, and our cab driver was Haitian...he was an extremely handsome guy, and very dark (like Nigerian) skin--darker than my three year old daughter had ever seen. She was openly questioning me about his skin, and our (extremely white) skin...I asked him if he minded me answering her questions, because this is how kids learn, and actually why I travel in the first place. I made sure that we also talked about HIS country and his own kids.

Sorry for the long answer. I guess I can say it is an ongoing discussion, which becomes needed less and less as she is almost a teenager.

My kids handled it for me. They would come home from daycare and talk about their friends. I would ask them to describe them and they would tell me "she's tall, with blonde hair" or "he's small, with black hair and brown skin". To them anyone who wasn't pale white was brown. Until they were 5 or 6 my kids thought my husband, who is caucasian but who spends a lot of time outdoors and tans easily, was African American. They knew the term from school, and they knew it referred primarily to people with brown skin, so they assumed since daddy was brown he was African American.
They use it as a descriptor, like hair color, or clothing color, and it has no further meaning to them. If there is one black kid standing with 4 white kids they will say "the brown one" - because that is what the main differentiator is in that situation. If there is one girl with 4 boys they will describe her as the girl, not the one in the red shirt because the differenct that jumps out at you first is gender.

Adults have a lifetime of positive and negative experience associated with skin color so when we hear someone use it as a descriptor we cringe and wonder if it's being used to segregate as opposed to differentiate. Kids don't have the experience filter. You see a white guy and a brown guy together and they comment on one of them, if you ask who they will respond "the white one" or "the brown one"; it's simply the most obvious visual difference hence the easiest way to tell us which one they are talking about. Oh, and my kids (8 & 9) still argue with me if I call someone white, "she's not white mom, she's pink like us!"

Well it is a big deal to me! To look at the outer shell I am a caucasian woman. This is just the outer shell I reside in. But,I am Italian, Irish, Cuban-Canadian-French. I tell my children that those colors are crayons made from Gods rainbow. I guess that ignorance is truly bliss!! I was raised in L.A Calif. with an aray of people I love all kinds of people and try to give the same love to and apprecation to my children. This will help with the end to racism.!!

Hi D.,

The topic rarely comes up in my home because there hasn't been much need for it. We live in a diverse area and my kids got used to seeing all different races and skin colors from an early age.

The first time I actually heard my daughter use the word black to describe someone was a couple of weeks ago when she was learning about civil rights at school. And she seemed uncomfortable even saying the word black. I was glad to see that. I used it as a chance to remind her that people should not be judged by the color of their skin.

When my son was about four, we were at Target and he saw an African American man coming in as we were leaving. He said to me "Mom, that man has brown skin". I was surprised he said that because, like I said, we live in a diverse area, so I just said "So what? People come in all different shapes, sizes and colors". He agreed and has never said anything like that again.

"Red and yellow, black and white, we are precious in HIS sight..."

It is just something that is obvious. I don't think it's insulting. Yes I am white, my daughter is Hispanic, her best friend is what she calls "brown" (African American). This is a term she came up with on her own because the girl may wear different things on different days, but she is always brown. Maybe because I am white I don't really get all worried about the descriptors. As long as the person isn't being negative, I wouldn't see it as wrong.

My daughter doesn't know race, weight, handicapped, pretty or ugly... We don't teach that in our home. She is taught everyone is different and everyone is loved for those differences. I am very proud of that!

How to answer this question. I hope you do not take offense. Growing up it would have been common for me to hear that black guy or that white guy. No racism was intended. That description was used by blacks and whites. When I moved to Florida I moved to a very multi cultural community I found you really needed to look a little closer. Because you would not say that black guy you'd probably say that Hatian guy or that Guyan(sp?) guy or that Argentinian guy or that Russian guy or that German guy or that Italian guy. So I look closer and learn. What I'm saying I guess is you need to educate in a nice way. Remember they are probably not meaning to be disrespectful. I'd like to say the same with my daughter with blonde hair. She is sweet and kind and some will look at her and cannot see past that blonde hair. Go figure.

we don't use color to describe people. we hm, well none of us recognized color. it's usually something 'yeah that loud oman over there' or that 'crying kid' hahaha you get what i mean.
i am sure my kids hear about color in school but that hasn't been brought up with us. plus it helps that my kids travel a lot and they have seen all kinds of nationalities, dress wear from folk to national to downright hippie, so for them the world is very vast and beautiful and colorful and fun.

I'm mixed with black/white, my daugher is 3 quarters black. She is 8 and still describes people as brown and blonde skinned although she understands that she is white/black. In addition, the black people in my family prefer to be referenced as "black" vs. "African American" (there's facts in history that explain why we feel this way). And we use skin color as needed to describe someone as long as it's not in a demeaning way. Unless your children are doing so or others you hear are doing so, I don't believe there is anything to be concerned about.

I'm white and spent part of my growing up years in a "black" neighborhood. My great-grandfather referred to African-Americans as "darkies." My parents used the "n" word. I would much rather they had said "black!"
My boys never paid any attention to skin color until we had an armed-robbery/home invasion. So we had to have some talks after that. What those two men did had nothing to do with their skin color, but their evilness and stupidity.
I personally don't use skin color to describe someone. My youngest son's first girlfriend was black and neither my son, myself or my husband ever used that word to describe her to anyone else (until now.)

Not a big deal to me. If I am standing across the room from someone and they say look at that white girl over there, it is just describing who I am. I am a girl and I'm white. What is wrong with that?

I don't make a big deal about it at all, just wanted to say that my kids describe one's exact color: brown, peach, tan, dark brown, light brown, light peach, etc... They have never said "black" or "white" (although there is the rare occasion that one could actually see a white person or a black person- all beautiful to me). They have friends of all colors and I am mixed myself. They like skin colors, and are fascinated by their own skin turning darker in the summertime. They are very observant and take an artistic viewpoint on looks. We all have talked about how pretty different colors of skin, hair and eyes are, nothing forced, just casual conversation. I think when it IS forced, kids wonder "WHY would my parents be so concerned about what I think of that person who has a different skin color?" I have NEVER noticed that they view people that look unlike them as...."different" than they. Just the way it should be. I have four girls.

My daughter understands no concept of skin color. She's corrected me when I called one of her African American friends black. It was not at all meant negatively or anything and in the era I grew up in using the term black towards African Americans was not an issue. I've tried to change the way I speak and reference.

My daughter is also literal so if I say someone is African American she wants to know where in Africa did they come from? She's 8, so it's not a huge issue for her at all. She doesn't see race or skin color. My children are mixed, white & Mexican so she is still trying to grasp what makes her nationality up let alone the various nationalities or races of others. People are people according to my daughter who just have different color hair or eyes and no one is black, just really dark brown.

I'm not sure if I should be concerned that she doesn't realize there are people of different races or if I should be proud?<insert confused look>

Its probably not the first adjective I would use to describe someone, but I don't think its offensive at all. I would take absolutely no offense if someone described me as white or caucasian- its what I am- its the same as saying I'm tall or I have brown eyes! Was the guy in the blue shirt also the only black man within the general vacinity? I do have to admit, that I would probably be able to spot the only black man in a group of white men than I would be able to a spot the guy in the blue shirt- your friend was probably trying to make it as easy as possible for you to spot the man she was talking about.

I try not to use skin color to describe people - I totally agree with you on that. It is unnecessary! I teach my kids that skin comes in all different shades when they ask. My son asked when he was 3/4 yrs old and I just told him that just like eyes and hair comes in different colors, so does skin. He has never asked again. We have family members who are African American and my son and his two cousins adore each other. They never talk about it or even seem to notice they have different colored skin and I am so glad about that. It's just skin. The kind of person we are is what we are like inside.

I live in a predominantly "white" area and I am Caucasian as well. I was raised by a very open-minded mother so when my kids talk about the "black kid" in dance or soccer or whatever, I ask them why they need to point out their skin color as a descriptor. They have told me because it's easier than telling me what color their shirt is because I can immediately tell who it is by their description of skin color. I try to correct them and let them know that they wouldn't say that to one of their white friends and they definitely had to think about it! You can't change everyone and how they raise their kids, but as long as your kids know how to treat people kindly, then I think you just do the best you can :-)

I completely agree with you. I am caucasion and my best friend is African American...we've been friends since we were in K (we'll be 40 this year).

If you are pointing to the only person wearing a blue shirt you can just say "the guy wearing blue"...skin color is irrelevant. Drives me crazy. Some people do it and don't mean anything by it (may not even realize it) but others do it because they do take issue w/ someone of another race.
The other thing that gets me is when you have to use a descriptive (where skin color may be important to what you are saying), I never know what I should say because what is offensive to one person is not to another (black vs African American).

In the case of the kid refering to the opposing teammember, it could be that they have one "black" kid that is good or one "black" kid that has braids and maybe another that is not black so in that case it may have made the difference...depending on his context.

I do talk about skin color with my kids. We are white, we go to a moderately diverse school, so my son has kids of numerous shades in his classroom.

This is what I think... kids label each other. They are sorters by nature. It seems logical to describe people by how they look sometimes. What isn't logical is to use race to discriminate.

My son talks about a child in his class and I don't know which one he is referring to, he might say "you know Mom, he's the one with dark brown skin and curly hair" Or he might say "he's the one with pink skin and has a twin brother" or he might say "she's the one with black eyes and long black hair and has pretty tan skin". I think it can be healthier to describe the people and I always love it when my son points out peoples "pretty skin".

J.

Well, it's just a description of the person, it is not who they are - it's not like they are saying "That man over there must be in a gang because he is Mexican" they are saying the first few things one notices about a person and yes, skin tone/nationality is a big thing on describing someone. I have been to a sporting event where I am pretty much the only white woman there and others have said things like, "the white woman over there," or "whats up whitey" or any other reference to my white - Day glo with hints of peach/red randomly honestly - skin, it is what it is. So long as you teach your children that "black" is a descrition word - not a definition of who they are it's all good to me, and to my other friends of many races. My friend had a sitter who was black white mix and she called herself "toast" or "brown" when refering to her skin tone and when my son went to play at her house and her nephews were there he yelled "brown babies" because she called him her white baby and her nephews her brown babies - would that be offensive to you coming from a 2yr old?

I do try to refrain from using skin color to describe someone, but will resort to that before saying "the hugely fat guy" - which I think is ruder. But truly, unless it is important to the description, I generally leave it out. However, my husband (we are white) works with a mexican gal, who constantly refers to people by their races. "This black driver" - " the white girl at the mcdonalds" - "the mexican guy at the bank". Seriously when it doesn't matter. She called a tow truck the other day and told them "my black driver broke down and needs a tow". My hubby is sitting there open mouthed listening to her. But because we are white, he can't say a THING or he is being racist in her world. If he were EVER to say any of the things she says, he would be reported to HR in a heart beat. She's done it before.

I know what you mean. It sure seems like that is a big issue nowadays, isn't it? I always try not to label a person by their ethnicity with anyone meaning my kids or any other person. I have noticed this though--it seems that since the internet became such a phenomenon with the blogging in the past several years, the comments are always about ethnicity. It seems like this is becoming more and more common. It seems like 20 years ago, race/skin was something that was overlooked/accepted or not pointed out (which was cool), now however, it's been brought to light.

Some parents won’t talk about race because they ascribe to the color-blind myth that silence about race equals acceptance of all races. Studies have shown that doesn't work, because children internalize a preference for white skin from a very young age, unless they are explicitly told that everyone is just as good regardless of color

From an article on Mamapedia that made a big impression on me:
"But the thing that struck me . . . proven over and over in many of the studies discussed, is how important it is to speak to kids EXPLICITLY about race and racism. Nothing short of that makes an impression. Neither a multicultural curriculum, nor “background” diversity, nor aphorisms of color-blindness, nor silence about race, will lead a child to positive attitudes about race. Only explicit discussion of race and racism will do it."
from:
http://www.mamapedia.com/voices/speaking-with-your-kids-a...

I think by telling our children not to describe people as black (latino, etc) we are telling them there's something wrong with being black. If there's nothing wrong with it, why can't we just say it? Why make it a stigma?

Parents of multiethnic kids: PLEASE talk to your kids about their ethnic background. I grew up confused because my parents wouldn't talk about it. I used to ask what box to check, and my mom would say "whichever one you want." So there was about three different boxes I would check, including "Pacific Islander" because my mom was from Australia, which I knew was an island in the Pacific! Father is East Indian, but I look Latina & have a Spanish last name, so sometimes I would check "Hispanic." I agree kids have to develop their own ethnic identity, esp multiethnic kids, but more of a discussion about it would have been helpful.

When my brother and I experienced prejudice in high school, my mom was in denial about it, didn't want to believe that prejudice still existed, and as a white woman it was easy for her to believe that. PLEASE validate your kids' experiences, even if they're different from your own.

It's something that I consciously try to NOT do and model for my kids (and husband). My husband has a habit of constantly noting someone's skin color or ethnicity if they are not white and I think it's ignorant and call him on it. I try to not get sanctimonious about it, but after he tells a story, I'll say "and what does being Black (or Hispanic or whatever) have to do with that?" and he then usually realizes...it doesn't. I do notice that my kids, for the most part, don't do this. They have many friends who aren't "white" but don't feel the need to point that out, so whenever a new friend comes over to the house for the first time, I know that to expect any and everything in terms of how he or she may look.

It think for many people, it's just a bad, unconscious habit that needs to be broken.