Would Love Advice on This Right now..worried...

OMG she is 2!!!!! Get a new doctor. 2 is such a tough age. They want to be independent but do t quite get it. They do not have the language yet. She should have more than 20 words at this point. Could be frustration. Then again some kids just talk later. I would get a speech evaluation. I get the feeling that's part of the problem. Autistic? Does not sound like it to me.

Is there anything that the doctor said that you feel may be true? I do not see why a doctor would say a child is fat if that is not true.

M., there are a lot of people out there who don't really know our kids and who will say whatever comes to mind. I've experienced this myself, and had to bite my tongue because this person really *didn't* know my child and wasn't qualified to make any sort of diagnosis; yet they threw out a suggestion based on their own experience.

I would encourage you to put this in that category. There are a lot of behaviors/tics etc that kids can have in common. It may be that you have what we might call a 'sensory' kid, who really doesn't like having their hair combed or brushed. I have a sensory kid; can I reassure you that he is not autistic? That, at four years old, we took him to get shots and he screamed, cried and hid under the bench at the doctor's office in a space so narrow that the MA's were calling each other to watch and we were all sort of laughing because it was such a huge and unusual freak out? (I'm laughing at this now, although that day I went home and made myself a very stiff drink.)

Autism spectrum diagnoses require meeting criteria in 10 different realms. My guess is that you have a doctor that just doesn't think before she speaks. I once had a nurse practitioner tell me that my 6 month old exclusively-breastfed baby was 'overweight'. I kid you not. People (esp those without kids) can jump to some weird conclusions and say some stupid things. I'd try to let this one go and please, do NOT use YouTube as a comparison for anything, okay? See a specialist if you are concerned. And yes, for heaven's sake, tantrums ARE normal. Kids do feel out of control sometimes. Some would condone trying to discipline them out of it, but my longtime experiences as a mom, nanny and preschool teacher is that even very typical kids have them. Your doctor was an idiot, IMO.

M., here's my advice. There are 3 things that I would do in your shoes. First, get the doctor to refer you to an occupational therapist who has expertise with sensory integration disorder. Take her to the OT. The OT will have a lot of "fun stuff" for her to "play" with. Balls, swings, mats, etc. The hair and the teeth brushing sounds sensory based. The next thing is to have an evaluation with a speech pathologist. In addition to the sensory issue, she could have oral defensiveness that the speech therapist could work with her on. You want a "fun" therapist (tell the doctor this) who makes working with oral defensiveness FUN. Speech and OT is a lot of work for a child, and the therapists need to have experience "cajoling" two year olds.

My son at two had less than 60 words. His articulation was terrible. Because he was over 24 months old, they wanted him to start with speech therapy immediately because he should have had 200 words. At 20 words, your daughter is way behind, M.. She needs speech therapy. And yes, tantrums can be caused by the frustration a child has from not being able to communicate.

The third thing I'd do is ask the doctor for a referral to a play therapist. Play therapists have a lot of experience figuring out kids' issues.

Early intervention is SO important for children with problems, M.. You need to get started on this so that EITHER, these problems get better, OR you end up with an autism diagnosis so that you can get her help quickly. Whether it's sensory integration disorder, speech/language problems, or autism, getting help now will mitigate all three problems.

Good lord! There is nothing abnormal here. I would so totally fire that doctor.

Here's the thing. Chances are, your child is totally fine and there's nothing wrong whatsoever. Chances are, you're right, the shots thing was traumatic enough to freak out your daughter for a long time. Chances are the tantrums are perfectly age appropriate and she'll grow out of them. Sure, you could fire your pediatrician and chalk it up to terrible bedside manner and totally unprofessional attitude.

BUT. If there's even a sliver of a chance your child is on the spectrum, the earlier you start dealing with it, the better. I know you want us to tell you there's nothing wrong and you don't need to worry at all. Truth is, we don't know you or your daughter, so we simply can't tell you what to do. How would you feel if you ignored your doc now and in several years it turns out there IS an issue and you'd missed out on the early intervention years?

Opposite happened with us. When my son was 2, 3 then 4, I had weird feelings that something wasn't right. Finally at his 4th year check up, I asked our pediatrician for their professional opinion and was told "Your child is a perfectly normal, active little guy. You have absolutely nothing to worry about." Turns out my son has ADHD, Autism, Tourettes, and sensory issues, Math Dyscalculia and other neurodevelopment math problems. I'm really glad I pushed for further evaluations. He's 17 now and doing great, but he sure wasn't a "perfectly normal, active little guy." And, yeah, there was A LOT we needed to worry about.

I'm always a big fan of ruling out possibilities instead of ignoring potential problems. Better safe than sorry, right?

ETA: In response to "classic autism signs" mentioned, my son spoke clearly, answered perfectly, would look you in the eye, had a large vocab, spoke in full sentences by 2 and in most ways "seemed" perfectly normal, advanced even. So, yeah, there are things to look out for, but just because your child makes eye contact and responds doesn't necessarily mean they're not on the spectrum. It's a spectrum, some are super high functioning (like my son) and some are lower functioning. To say something like "My child answers to her name so she doesn't have autism" is simply ignorant. Your child is most likely just fine. But it doesn't hurt to find out for sure.

ADD: My kid is mellow, so the bite/kick/throw for not getting her way would be over the top. If she's tantruming because she can't communicate, look into baby sign language - not being able to communicate is a major contributor to frustration. And if she's tantruming, she needs consequences - time out, whatever, because her reaction is not ok.

Re. "classic symptoms", not every autistic child has the "typical" symptoms; my son doesn't seem autistic in many situations, so he wasn't assessed till he was 4. He's social, didn't line things up, didn't spin/rock, had good eye contact at home, huge vocabulary. The clue was that he was noticably "quirky" compared to his same age peers in a way that was noticible to daycare personnel - just at an "I wonder if..." level. They were right. See if your school district has Early Intervention assessments - they're free, and can help a lot.

ORIGINAL: rushing hair and teeth are no fun for a kid - MAYBE it's a sensory thing, but unless the doctor could give you actual reasons other than tantrums to indicate autism, I don't understand why the doc went there. And I have a kid on the spectrum - every kid is different.

An autism meltdown and a "typical" tantrum are totally different. They seem similar on the outside, but a meltdown is a result (often) of overstimulation and sensory overload. They are NOT for attention or for the kid to get their way - it's basically a system breakdown/overload.

But based on what you're talking about, she sounds like she has a fear of the doctor. And if it's just this particular doctor, find another one - she's picking up on something, whether it's personality, or a fragrance or whatever, this doctor is NOT the right fit for your child. Follow your daughter's lead.

If you can find a doctor that is truely good with toddlers, that can somehow help her re. shots without holding her down. Perhaps try to see the doctor a few times WITHOUT shots, and with positive reinforcers - maybe try to schedule a couple of visits.

I have a website - autistikids.com - that is a great resource if you need it. It's blogs written by autistic adults and other parents about their experiences.

New doctor. Find one who doesn't give the shots himself or herself, but delegates that to a nurse. You always want the doctor to be the one the kids see as warm and supportive and giving of stickers.

I'm really tired of people thrown gout the "autism" label any time a child has a tantrum. Most people say it can't be easily diagnosed especially in young children. But you can't look at vocabulary or intellect and say that's proof one way or the other. Kids learn at different rates - the "low vocabulary" kids are advanced in other areas, the "can't count" kids are often exceptional in fine and gross motor skills, etc.

I think you, like all parents, will want to work on tantrums for not getting their way - that's usually dealt with by taking them home and not giving in to their kicking and screaming. Just right into the car seat or, at home into the room or the crib, until they calm down.

So I'd say to get off the internet, and find another doctor - new office, new surroundings, new individual. Before you visit, call or send a note saying your daughter had a tough time at the last 2 appointments and you need a new strategy. Most doctors will do a "get acquainted" interview ahead of time if you ask before you choose the practice.

Then focus on the tantrums and pick 3 main triggers, and work out a strategy. Kids need to have their feelings validated and there are plenty of techniques like getting down to their level and helping them voice their feelings when they don't yet have the vocabulary. Structure is important for any kid, autistic or not. But there are so many configurations of autism, you can't panic about it now. Just implement structures that will help you no matter what.

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New doctor. Find one who doesn't give the shots himself or herself, but delegates that to a nurse. You always want the doctor to be the one the kids see as warm and supportive and giving of stickers.

I'm really tired of people thrown gout the "autism" label any time a child has a tantrum. Most people say it can't be easily diagnosed especially in young children. But you can't look at vocabulary or intellect and say that's proof one way or the other. Kids learn at different rates - the "low vocabulary" kids are advanced in other areas, the "can't count" kids are often exceptional in fine and gross motor skills, etc.

I think you, like all parents, will want to work on tantrums for not getting their way - that's usually dealt with by taking them home and not giving in to their kicking and scramming. Just right into the car seat or, at home into the room or the crib, until they calm down.

So I'd say to get off the internet, and find another doctor - new office, new surroundings, new individual. Before you visit, call or send a note saying your daughter had a tough time at the last 2 appointments and you need a new strategy. Most doctors will do a "get acquainted" interview ahead of time if you ask before you choose the practice.

Then focus on the tantrums and pick 3 main triggers, and work out a strategy. Kids need to have their feelings validated and there are plenty of techniques like getting down to their level and helping them voice their feelings when they don't yet have to vocabulary. Structure is important for any kid, autistic or not. But there are so many configurations of autism, you can't panic about it now. Just implement structures that will help you no matter what.

I agree that it sounds more like a speech issue and the frustration that accompanies speech issues. My younger son was a late talker, was terrified of the doctor and prone to tantrums. After getting tubes in his ears and a year of speech therapy you would never know he had any issues at all.

ETA: Your child is close to the lower end of normal range. By the second birthday a child should have minimum 25 words, but most have closer to 100. Language develops very quickly now, but at different rates for different kids, so 20 words could be normal, but could be a sign of a language delay. My older son was speaking in sentences by his second birthday, so when my younger son couldn't put more than two words together I felt it was evident there was a delay. It turned out he had fluid built up behind his eardrum and wasn't hearing properly.

I would never go back to that doctor. It sounds so irresponsible to me to throw out a posssible autism diagnosis as well as asking if she has been abused simply because your daughter has tantrums at the doctor's office. Most kids don't like shots. Sounds like your daughter is pretty bright and remembers what could end up happening next...more shots.

If you can afford it or if your insurance covers it, I would go ahead and have the evaluation. I doubt she has autism, and having her evaluated won't make it so if it isn't. I figure the doctor is covering all her bases.
They might also be able to give you coping mechanisms and/or ways to handle the tantrums.

I've seen toddlers blow up just seeing anyone in scrubs or doctors coat.
They remember getting shots for quite awhile.
You have not described anything abnormal.
2 and 3 yr olds have tantrums - it's a fact and it's a growth stage.
I've never ever heard of ANYONE making it to 4 who NEVER had a tantrum.
Take a break from the internet and get a new pediatrician.
In fact, get her a toy doctor kit for Christmas (we got one for our son) and he had a great time doctoring me and Daddy.

http://www.amazon.com/Fisher-Price-BMH12-Medical-Kit/dp/B...

It sounds like you need a new doctor. I'd find a male pediatrician, since she's afraid of the female doctor. Someone with excellent rapport with kids.

Needing to be held for shots isn't uncommon. Nor is fear of doctors. Nor are 2 year old tantrums. If she's social and speaking and learning, that doesn't sound like autism to me. I was very afraid of getting shots when I was little, and this phobia followed me into adulthood for years. I definitely recommend finding another doctor so that you can work on helping her over that phobia. As many childhood vaccines can be painful, it's not surprising to see that she'd get upset.

Your toddler sounds normal. My 2 middle kids are total opposites at the Docs office. One has always been 100% agreeable. The younger, 100% disaster. That's just their personalities . Our doc has never suggested , that the younger kid has any problem related to his fear.

I'm confused because you said she tantrums for just three things (brushing her teeth, her hair or going to the doctor) and then you said in SWH "if she bites, kicks and throws things when she cant have a cookie or something..totally normal right?"

I would say no, if she is biting, kicking and throwing things often (presuming you say "no" to your toddler as often as I have to say "no" to mine) then it is not "normal".

I have no idea what behavior the doctor witnessed that M. have made recommend an evaluation, but there is no harm in having your daughter evaluated, if only for your peace of mind.

New doctor. My son was afraid of getting his ears checked until a nurse suggested getting a toy doctor kit and pretend playing at home. Lollipops were very helpful in getting over the fear of shots. Good luck!

I think an evaluation would ease your mind. If a developmental pediatrician who is experienced in this area does a full evaluation and has concerns, then you can opt for interventions now that can really help affect the quality of a child's life for the better. There is no benefit to delaying an evaluation. If the DP has no concerns, then you can relax.

It could be that this doctor is being very conservative and wants to raise a red flag on the off chance that there is more to the behavior that she or he is seeing, or it could be that there really is something there.

Without seeing your child, it's impossible for any of us to weigh in here. Very often and ASD diagnosis is a matter of the degree of behavior. Most 2 year olds throw tantrums, but it's the quality of the tantrum that a professional can understand points to an ASD diagnosis. Most kids go through a picky eating phase, but an ASD child's food aversions will be more pronounced, etc.

I can tell you that with two of my cousins, it was apparent to everyone but their mothers that something was a bit "off" about them as toddlers. One was dx'd with Aspergers at age 20 after years of treatment for ADHD, mood disorders and learning disabilities. He graduated college (took a but longer than most but he did it) and has a job so things are fine, but he would probably have benefitted from earlier intervention than was available when he was little. The other was diagnosed at age 3 after starting pre-school. My aunt was very, very defensive and quick to assume/defend his behavior as normal, but there was a quality to it that indicated that something else was going on. It took her a long time to agree to an evaluation and he has received wonderful treatments ever since. He's in 7th grade and doing great, he's just a little quirky at this point.

Anyway...it could be nothing, or it could be something. If I were you - and I do live with mood disorders, ADHD and learning disabilities in my spouse and kids so I can empathize with how frightening it is to hear that something might be "wrong" with a kid - I'd ask for a referral to a developmental pediatrician to just know one way or the other.

I think your doc was irresponsible throwing that out there. It is easy to understand why your daughter was freaking out - her last experience there was people holding her down and the doctor hurting her. I recall having a total meltdown a the doctors office once when I was around 4 years old. It was that traumatic for me that I recall it 50 years later!!!!

If your daughter responds when you call her name and if she is making good eye contact, then I would not worry about autism. Those are two classic signs - no eye contact and no response when she hears her name. (And when I say no response, I mean absolutely nothing - just like you said "toilet" or any other word you would not expect her to respond to.)

Never hurts to get it checked....drs see a lot if kids they would know better than you what is typical and what warrants a check

I had several friends who thought their kids had Autism because their kids had severe temper tantrums. As an aside, none of them ever disciplined temper tantrums. All of the temper tantrums escalated to crazy levels. The kids threw stuff, they banged their heads, they vomited, they went on for hours in their rooms and collapsed from exhaustion. The standard Supernanny behavior for spirited kids with parents who "ignore" temper tantrums and let them get out of control. Each of them eventually got a bona fide "Autism" diagnosis from real professionals.

Sometime around age 5, 6 or 7....each child mysteriously "overcame their Autism".

They never had Autism. Just severe, normal, undisciplined temper tantrums.

Autism is real. But it is massively overdiagnosed in the age of allowing temper tantrums.

Don't be alarmed until you have used firm discipline consistently over time and your daughter is still unable to control herself. Then she may (or may not) have Autism. Temper tantrums do not mean Autism.

My kids also freaked out in doctors offices regarding shots. They don't have Autism.

"Back to Basics Discipline" by Janet Campbell Matson has a solid method.

I can't understand WHY they have to have 2-3 nurses come in and hold a child down to give them shots...THAT IS SCARY!! They did that to my son when he was 2 or 3 and it was really scary for him, I was surprised myself that THAT was the method they used. I'm sure it's because they are so busy and they just need to get you in and out. My son was afraid to go to the doctor's for at least 2 years after that, and I can't blame him...I ended up switching doctors and it was much better. I know for a fact that the pediatrician's office I went to growing up did not handle the kids that way. When I told my husband he was pissed and said I should have said something. I think you know your child best- I would be annoyed at a doctor who threw out the word autism for a 2 year old's behavior- who has every right to be terrified after being held down by a bunch of strangers and given shots. Just my 2 cents.

I would get a new doc. My friends son required a person for each limb to hold him down when it came to shots. He cried when they pulled up to the docs office before going in. She had to pretty much drag him in. After each appointment my friend had to take advil and a nap when she got home from that ordeal. This was at 2 as well. He is now a college grad who went to college on a scholarship. This doc just doesn't know how to handle a child that is frightened of the doc. See a new doc. Also see if her father will take her. Some kids are different for Dad. Good luck!!

She sounds like the size of a 5 year old. Her size could be throwing people off. Many see a child that big and expect them to act like a 5 year old instead of a 2 year old.