Why Can't I Get My 5YO Son to Understand SCHEDULES?

My daughter is like this and she is ADD so you may ask them to test him and if it comes back that it looks like there may be an issue then you will need to have it medically diagnosed by his doctor. Good luck.

K. -

I don't know what the cut off date for kindergarten is up in NJ - here you have to be 5 by Sept. 1 but if he qualifies for kindergarten in public school by his birthdate then they can't reject him. They could hold him back from first grade but they can't reject him outright. If he is in kindergarten in private school - that's another matter.

C.

You have a serious lack of Montessori schools in your area. If you actually live in a different location, I would look them up. My son is in a public school that is Montessori. This is what I ended up putting him in because he is extremely intelligent, but does better if he can go at his own pace. In regular school he would have been held back because he isn't "emotionally" ready for his grade even though academically he is at the top of his class.

Good Luck!

Do they have a para-teacher who might be able to shadow him for a few weeks? Schools often do this with kids who are transitioning from special ed to a mainstream classroom, but it's not out of the question that they'd do the same for a gifted child. And that's what your son sounds like, an intellectually gifted little boy whose social and emotional development haven't caught up to his cognitive development. This is so common, you might try posting your question to a forum of parents with gifted children -- I suspect you'll get a lot of "we've been there too." I also recommend meeting with the school and requesting some kind of IEP (individualized educational plan). You might have to jump through some hoops to get it, but a decent school should at least be responsive and guide you through the process.

Good luck!

Mira

It could be a sign of ADD, which is different than ADHD. Only a professional evaluation will help you be sure if this is it.

first of all I dont want to sound offensive but your kid is not the problem- you are the parent you have allowed this behavior " this is typical for the kiddo" He does everything on his own schedule. This is almost impossible for a teacher to handle and YOU have created it. Now is the time and it may be too late to correct the problem sit down with him talk to him about what he needs to do let him know before hand lay his schedule every day- your going to school- sitting in your seat and listening to the teacher- head up mouth closed butt on chair- I will pick you up after class- repeat daily.

He sounds pretty normal to me. Most of the boys on my son's preschool had to repeatedly be asked to join the group. It could be adhd, it could be he just isn't ready and is still learning. He will get there, he is only 5. My son did the same thing in preschool and he is totally fine now in kindergarten.

All of the early events you mentioned is not lack of a schedule, those are developmental milestones and things he can't help, his teeth coming in early for example, his due date... The food and sleep are just part of things he needs to learn over time. Does he get snacks between meals, how about a healthy snack like a banana prior to bedtime? Perhaps he is actually hungry?

One thing Dr. Sears (a child expert) suggests for instances like this is to get ready ahead of time. If you know a birthday party is in 2 hours. Start talking to him about when you will be leaving, and getting him ready 2 hours early, so you aren't rushing him when it's time to get ready to leave. Then you don't have to worry about keep missing events. It is odd that you let him control the roost and have missed so many events and things. This is a lack of oversight on your part, not his. A 5 year old shouldn't have the chance to procrastinate when you are getting ready to leave. I think your expectations of him are a little off and it is hurting him socially. For the orneriness, if my kids throw a tantrum, we get in the car anyways and they are usually fine by the time we get there.

When you are leaving an event, let him know, we are going in 10 minutes. Then, give him a 5 minute warning to begin to say goodbye to friends and clean up, then a 1 minute warning to get his bag/shoes...whatever. Kids don't understand the timeframe of a minute or an hour, but with frequent time stops, they can begin to understand them. Also, kids his age still have a hard time grasping weeks/days/calenders , how long an hour is... so continue working with him on that. But in the meantime, kids learn by routine, and you haven't been enforcing one.

Keep him on a schedule. He can't do chores on your schedule on his own. So stand there and make sure he does them. You have to give him a deadline, that is how schedules work. Set a timer, tell him, "When this timer goes off in 5 minutes, you will go into timeout if your cars are not put away". Our timer has a one minute warning beep, when that warning beep goes off, the kids know it means business and they better hurry.

Some expert advice here:
http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior

Sounds like he is still too immature for kinder and the structure that is needed for a classroom. You need to do what is best for your son. Be honest about your situation, but realize they did you a favor letting him in early, it may not be the best for him in the long run.

At our elementary school, there tends to be one teacher in the kinder group who specializes in these younger immature children.. She knows exactly how to work with them.. most years every one of her students is up to level by the Christmas holidays.

Do ask that he be evaluated.. could be all sorts of things. Sight, hearing, or something else, could just be total immaturity.. Better to seek the answers.

He also sounds like my husband who has ADHD. He is 50 years old and still cannot remember that trash day is on Friday. It has always been on Friday even when he was a young boy living with his parents.

I can have my keys ready to go somewhere that we need to be, and he is dressed and ready. But walking from the bedroom to the living room, he will notice that he just found a screw on the floor.. Stops and looks around trying to figure out where it came from. Then notice the dresser drawer is not closed all the way, try to close it and realize it is stuck.. works on the drawer. then still has the screw and gets down on the floor to see if there are any more. notices there are some things that have been kicked under the bed.. looks for something to help him reach under there. It goes on and on like this until I throw a fit and walk into the bedroom and escort him out of the house.

This is the way his brain is wired.

So you will need to help him find some coping skills. He must learn ways of getting from one spot to another without distractions. He really should be able to do this without your help if he is in kinder. The rest of the class can probably do this.

One thing, can you give your son 3 or more directions at a time and have them remember and to complete them all without having to be reminded?

Example. " . John, we are going to the grocery store. Please help me. Please go to my desk and get the piece of yellow paper, that is on top of the desk, that is my list. Then go to the kitchen and pick a snack to take to the store.. remember we do not buy snacks at the store. then please see if you can find my grocery bags that I take to the store. Meet me at the front door when you have all of those things. Thanks. Always tel him
"I like how you are such a good helper." or " I like how you remembered everything."

He should be able to do all of this. If not start working on it. with 2 instructions until he can do it every time.. then do 3, then 4.. Then have him help you make a list. He can draw picture.

Our daughter used to help me "write" the grocery list.. Eggs, she knew that was an "e" and a "g". Meat.. might be a burger she drew.. this way she knew what we would be searching for at the store and she could then direct me. It helped her stay focused.

Then you can make a poster chart of how to get ready in the mornings. With your sons pictures and writing, he will be in charge of following his own directions. You have to work with him all of the time. Everything is a teaching moment, when you break it down and verbalize it to him.

We also used to do races.. This taught our daughter how to "get a move on". In the bath one night I would bathe her as fast as possible. The rule was no cheating.. a full bath, but super fast. The next night my husband would then try to beat my time. She loved it. Or I would dress her one day and the next day she would dress herself.. who was fastest?

You can do the same thing with shoe tying, getting dressed.. etc.. Not eating meals and not brushing teeth.. Those need to be done as long as necessary.

You can do this.

I suggest you visit a montessori school near you. They allow kids to learn at their own pace (as opposed to within a group). This was a big help for our older child! Good luck!

I would have him evaluated if you think there is an underlying issue. School will take care of that if they concur there is a problem.

What is his learning style? Does he need to:

*hear it
*read it
*see it
*do it

I would suggest that you start by creating a schedule that doesn't change and work with that. For instance: His bedtime routine: 1. Go to the bathroom. 2. Wash your hands. 3. Wash your face, arms, feet 4. Brush your teeth. 5. Dress for bed. (Whatever your routine is and in the correct order you want it).

Make a chart that has each of these steps on it WITH A PICTURE NEXT TO IT! Yes, he can read. But, if he is a visual learner he needs to see the pictures more than read the words. He will also (probably) enjoy making the chart with you and having you take pictures.

Make a chart for getting ready in the morning. Make a chart for his daily schedule at school and put it on his desk. This is done for a lot of kids who struggle with this.

Make his teacher's life easier by creating solutions to the problems they have at school and be consistent with enforcing the routine.

Hope this helps.

Since they can't work one-on-one with each child there has to be certain things each child can and will do in kindergarten. So while his not doing what the other kids are doing may be nothing new for him, it won't work in kindergarten. With one of my grandsons they determined he was "too immature" for kindergarten when he did all the same things your son is doing, politely released him and said he could go back the following year. I realize it isn't an option for you but mom and I homeschooled him, and by the following year he was ready for first grade with no problems, he really did need that extra year of maturing and learning to do as directed.

It wasn't an option for my grandson (or no one realized it was at the time, we were all too shocked) but I would look into having your son evaluated NOW, before they make any decisions, and go from there. You can't insist they keep him in kindergarten, but hopefully will find some answers and possibly a program or plan to help him get on course.

He doesn't understand schedules because he's 5. Schedules have to be enforced by the adults in his life. Sounds like you've allowed him to do whatever when he wants. You do say he has a schedule at home but the first part of your post sounds like you weren't able to enforce it. Have you tried planning and enforcing a daily schedule at home? Do you provide discipline when he doesn't follow the rules. If so what is it? Does it work at home? If not, I suggest that you get some parenting skills help.

You say that he has consistency at home but yet his behavior at school indicates that he hasn't learned how to follow directions. You mention that he has lived with relatives and that might be the problem. IF he's not had a consistent and stable home life, that is definitely part of the problem.

I do urge you to ask for an evaluation for learning disabilities. The school district can provide this and treatment if needed free of charge.

I doubt that you can successfully keep him in Kindergarten if the school decides school is not appropriate for him. If this is "just" a behavior problem the school will expect you to manage him at home.

I urge you to talk with a parenting coach/counselor to learn different skills. Children are very individual. Apparently what you're doing now isn't working. He may have a developmental issue such as an autism spectrum disorder. This does require professional help. The school district's evaluation can help to determine if that's the case. He would then get an IEP, Individual Education Plan.

After your What Happened. I see a couple of areas that changes might help in. 9pm is too late for a nearly 5 year old's bedtime unless he sleeps until 8 or 9. And sending him to bed hungry is not going to help him have less meltdowns. Being hungry is probably the reason for the meltdown. And....he's going to not sleep well. Have you ever gone to bed hungry and been fine?

About catching the bus. It isn't up to him. You are the one who takes him to catch the bus. You are the one who sees that he gets enough to eat and enough sleep. He has to have enough to eat and sleep so that he can function well.

It sounds to me that you need to take more control and actively manage what your son does or doesn't do. You set the schedule and you manage him on that schedule.

And most definitely do not send him to bed hungry. What other consequences does he have that when you think about it might not be so reasonable? One book that you didn't mention is Love and Logic by Foster Cline. A child will learn more effectively if the consequence fits the misbehavior.

For example: a meltdown at mealtime could indicate that he needed to eat sooner or it could mean he needs quiet time away from the table until he's ready to eat. Think about why he's had the meltdown and deal with the cause. But never send him to bed hungry. Hunger causes the misbehavior to escalate.

I have a few suggestions:

1. Use a timer when he is given a task- This lets him know he has a certain amount of time to complete them.

2.Use a reward system for when he completes a task - this motivates the behavior you are seeking by encouraging positive behavior = rewards.

3. Have him evaluated, but "normally" an accurate diagnosis cannot be made until the age of 6. (i.e. Aspergers/ ADD)

4. Check into behavioral health agencies to see if you can get a TSS for him in school and/or at home to help him stay on track if all the others fail.

Your son is very smart and he could be bored with the level of material he is being instructed to do.

Good luck

If you can afford it, it probably would be a good idea to take him to a psychologist to find out what makes kiddo tick. If your school has a school psychologist, then have him evaluated there. (I'm a little confused when you interchange kindergarten and preschool.) You did say he is reading, so right there's a big answer to your question...Kiddo's gifted. Gifted kids do not follow the norm. It's not that we don't want to or just don't feel like it, it's just that the norm doesn't make sense to us and seems rather pointless. To make matters worse, each gited child is different and has their own set of quirks. There's a little Golden Book called "How to Tell Time" that actually deals with punctuality. It's a story about a boy called Tommy O'Tootle, but everyone called him "Tommy too late." I think your son will enjoy that book. I have found that one of the "golden rules" of dealing with a gifted child is that you never just say, "No" or "do this." They always need to know "why." You will always need to explain. Try to keep the explaination brief too, because they get bored just sitting there listening. Gifted children tend to get bored easily unless they have something to channel their energy into like drawing, math, reading, making stuff, etc. Once you get the boredom out, they are more willing to listen. As for missing parties and playdates, maybe he's not interested because he can't identify with the other kids. You might have to make some play dates with older kids for him.

Get the routine clock from timelymatters.com. That'll get him into routines. Check it out. Our morning, after school, and bed time routines work flawlessly. No more nagging on my part.

My daughter is like this and she does NOT have ADHD. Or ADD. She is not defiant, she just does her own thing. She's been getting in trouble for this since she was in preschool. For example, if everyone was doing circle time, she wouldn't refuse to do it, she'd just wander away and play by herself. And if she was asked to join, she'd either ignore the request or shake her head. No yelling or outright defiance, but she wouldn't want to stop what she wanted to do.

Now at age 5 he won't have any sense of responsibility for time. My daughter is 10 now and here are some things that work for us:

1. I skip the calendar and we do a dry erase board. I write what's going on for the next day. We go over it right before bed and the first thing in the morning. The calendar is just too long-range for her.

2. I use a timer for all tasks. She has until the timer goes off to complete her taks or comply with the rules. If the timer goes off and she's not done or she hasn't complied then she gets a consequence. I let her know the consequence ahead of time. I had to dig to find her "achilles heel" or the thing that would motivate her. If she is being timed to do a task, I will check on her often and make sure she's on target. If she's being timed in order to comply with something she doesn't want to then I leave her alone until the timer goes off. Then I go back and see if she's decided to comply. I started this when she was 7 and I don't have to time her to comply anymore, just for tasks. And now only for tasks she tends to dawdle on.

3. When she was younger we used the House Fairy to help motivate her to keep her room clean. Saying the House Fairy is watching often helped. The House Fairy comes unexpectedly and leaves a surpries if the room is clean and fairy dust if its dirty. Look it up on the internet :)

As for eating--I used to think that being hungry was a good "reminder" but in all the years it has never worked. I will say "eat now or you'll be hungry" and later on she's hungry and she doesn't make the connection. Having trouble sleeping and eating on schedule could be a sugar issue. I've found that not making a big deal about eating, not offering snacks just because she refused dinner and ignoring the night hungries have done the trick. I feed her food and snacks regularly and she seems to be on schedule.

Good luck!

K.,
Go to Scott Noelle's site.
Don't discipline/punish him. It isn't achieving what you want. Likely it won't ever, and if it does you will have succeeded in cowing him. Not a health thing.
He won't get it until he's about 7.
He like all children, is himself. You would do best by him to find an avenue that works with him - instead of trying to subject and subvert his native intelligence to the status quo.
good luck and blessings on your boy,
M.

Hi K.,
Well, he could have some form of ADHD, but also - before schedules comes steps. I dont know enough about how these scenarios are playing out. Are you saying "We have to leave in 15 minutes, eat your breakfast, brush your teeth, get your shoes on, get your jacket?" If so, too many directions at once. Go step by step with a timer leaving you with plenty of extra time. You may need to be on top of every step. If he isn't ready in time, don't let him go late to the party or library or whatever. If this is public school, there aren't different types of classrooms other than self contained special ed for classified students with severe learning disabilities. Break things down for him, have a consequence for dawdling, set up a dime jar starting with a few and put in/take out based on whether he is following directions or not. Let him keep what's in there at the end of the week. Good luck