Vacation with His Ex-wife?

Sounds like he wants a break from you, and going out of town with his wife (yes, still wife) is just the ticket.
Hell, his family probably thinks he's still living with his wife.
If you're willing to "bow out gracefully" then just do it. Why waste time on a grown man who just wants to be a boyfriend, and travel with another woman? You'd have to be pretty hard up to put up with that.

From what you've written, it sounds like the plans are for a good time for him... and not for you... and he doesn't care much about that.

He has a wife with whom he doesn't live but with whom he wants to vacation. He has a girlfriend with whom he lives but whom he doesn't seem interested in marrying and taking to meet the family. He has no real, genuine - shall we even say legal? - commitment to either of you, and he's as happy as a clam.

Who's getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop (to borrow a line from the classic film SOME LIKE IT HOT)? You are. I'm sorry.

So, a man's going on vacation with his estranged wife? Yep, there's something for you to be concerned about. But, then again, you should have already been concerned since they're still legally married. A divorce doesn't take 7 years to get, even with lots of emotions.

Must be nice for them both to have their cake & eat it too. I'd back away from this mess.

You've been the other woman for 4 years. He is married. The kids have been adults since they were 18. You need to read the writing on the wall. This is not a healthy relationship. Take this as a sign, and move out while he's gone, or move him out if it's your home. You're wasting your life with this man who is enjoying the benefits of marriage and having a piece on the side.

For goodness sake, my parents divorced when I was 10.

I wonder how comfortable she would be horning in if she was an EX wife and you were his WIFE?
Kinda unblurrs the lines, huh?
I'd encourage them to go together--but I'd sure be gone when he came back.
Bottom line? You don't trust him.
This man can't finish what he starts. Don't be an unfinished project.
Good luck.

Perhaps while he and his wife are on vacation, you and her boyfriend should get together.

My guess is his family in Europe does not know he is living with you. They think his marriage is fine and if he is coming to visit he would naturally bring his wife.

I think you need to take a hard look at situation... He is traveling with his wife, NOT his ex-wife, you are the other woman! Send him and his belongings on a permanent vacation, figure out why you ever settled for this, then when you're ready, find a man that can give you his whole self.

E.,

What was your hope when you got involved with this man? To move in or to marry him?

I can tell you this-- I think that the man you are with is not going to ever marry you. He might love having you around, this might be a fun and very easy relationship for him because hey, you don't have the baggage of kids, but no, I don't think that he's committed to a long term relationship with you.

When my husband and I first met (platonic, I should add) we were both going through the ends of our marriages with our respectful spouses. Ten months later, we started dating. While we both were already separated from our exes, I had already filed for divorce from my ex and he quick-time got his divorce taken care of. I wasn't going to stick around if they were going to stay terminally 'in limbo'--separated but not divorced-- and he knew that.

HAD I stuck around while he dragged his feet, well, that would have shown him that I was willing to wait around indefinitely, that I didn't have needs or desires of my own to be in a long-term, fully committed relationship. We didn't marry for a long time-- we'd been together for 8 years and had our son almost 2 years prior-- but I knew he was was FULLY committed. There was absolutely no ambiguity and you know, my husband wouldn't have wanted there to be any, for both our sakes.

I tell you all this because I don't think it's necessarily about anyone putting a ring on anyone else, but all about this sort of ambiguity.

If my girlfriend were in the situation you describe, I'd tell her that she had some options:

You could ask him to go to couples counseling with you, because you wanted to better understand what was happening and want him to understand why this is so concerning for you.

You could tell him "no way, buster, am I content to be your faceless girlfriend who doesn't know your family." While families are weird and a beau may be a bit hesitant to introduce a new love to family, usually someone who has intentions of a long-term relationship with someone is proud to be with them and WANTS to introduce these important people to each other. (Unless there is an estrangement issue which previously exists, which is understandable, but that's not the case with you.)

Personally, I think the writing is on the wall. He doesn't want to make an effort to even *translate* for you. Sweetie, that right there says it all. He likes you if he doesn't really have to make an effort. Chances are, if he goes off and tells you the truth, you might dump him and if it doesn't work out between he and the ex, he's back to square one, alone. In this way that he is proposing now, reassuring you that while something looks odd, everything is fine--- he pushes all of the risk in the relationship onto you. If they do reconnect, you are the one who gets blindsided. And if they don't, you might end up wondering if he's still really wanting to be with you out of sincere love or just convenience.

I hope you listen hard to your heart. I think you know the answer already.

The major problem here isn't the Europe trip, it's the fact that he hasn't divorced her yet. Find a SINGLE boyfriend, that will take you wherever you want to go.

Um, no. If they are amicable enough to go to Europe "as friends," they are certainly able to finalize their divorce. I would run, not walk, away from this guy. He's stringing you along.

Full disclosure: when my husband and I met, he had been separated from his ex-wife for 4 years. They had very little contact during that time, however he acknowledged that she had always wanted to get back together with him, and she would invent reasons to call him. Anyway, when I realized that he was still technically married, I let him know that I was not willing to be a married man's girlfriend (even though he was separated), and that I was going to bow out until he was divorced. That lit a fire under him, and he filed for divorce right away, and got everything finalized promptly. I did NOT issue an ultimatum, I just informed him of my intentions and reasoning, and let the chips fall where they may. Bottom line, if I had never stuck up for myself, he would probably still be separated and not divorced. (We have been married for 12 years now. ;)

They are separated, not divorced.
And they do not proceed to get, divorced.
They are still together but "separate" living their own lives. They are having their cake and eating it too.
You are a 3rd wheel.
And, no matter who he is involved with and no matter who she is involved with, they are still not divorced, and they are both having their cake and eating it too.
And he is not including you. At all. With his family and his trip. You have never met his family. And you have been together for 4 years???????
And still, you are not included.

He and his Wife, are still doing what they want yet they both do not get divorced.
They are just, separated.
They do not complete, their "separation" by getting divorced. Even if their kids are adults already.

You are not significant enough, in his life.
He does not include you in his life nor with being a part of his family.
After 4 years of this.

And he and his Wife, are not total ex's.
They are STILL, married.
Although legally separated, their marriage is STILL legally intact. They are still, married.

i think friendly relations with exes are awesome.
i think this is just plain weird.
red flags right left and center.
khairete
S.

I am sorry to say that "he is just not that into you." Their kids are fully grown, and they should NOT be taking any trip together, especially so far away! Bow out gracefully NOW! This is unacceptable! Best wishes.

On so many levels this can't possibly be true. If it is, it is too much a mess for any of us to advise.

People do not separate but not divorce for the kids! That would be flipping pointless! Oh lets go through all the motions of a divorce, have affairs we call boy/girl friends, but not actually divorce because that would be better for the kids....whatever.

She's not his ex-wife. She is his wife. Period.

A separation without divorce serves no purpose. Only to prolong what is already over. Or to prevent both parties from actually moving on. Perhaps he has not divorced her because he is holding on to the idea that they will work it out.

It is very possible that his family does not know about the separation. They probably don't even know about you either.

What you do with this information is ultimately up to you.

E., I want you to take a good look at yourself and ask yourself, why am I with a person that does not love me enough? Why have I allowed this to go on for so long?

His children were able to handle this, the day he moved out and ESPECIALLY the day you 2 began living together.

This statement, says it all. "I have always wanted to meet his family, but he's said he just wants to spend time with family and not be a "tour guide". I get that, as I speak no Dutch, and their English is limited."

People that love each other? He would want you to meet his family, you to meet his. Even if communication is poor, he would say, "I know you are going to feel a bit left out, but I really want my family to see you, and meet you. Just be prepared for some conversations that you will not understand. I can explain them to you at another time."

The wife situation is totally ridiculous and really says so much about them..

Please go to a therapist to work through all of this. I am not sure what your own history or family life is like or if you have children, but this is not a good relationship for you. You deserve to be respected. loved adored and be his first priority..

I find it sad -- and a bit weird -- that he doesn't want to take you to meet his family there. I don't get the language barrier/tourist thing. If I were you, I'd tell him you are going to go. Now is as good a time as any. If he doesn't agree to that, then I think I'd be looking for someone else who would put me first .... or at least before the ex.

This is wrong and you very well know it if you are asking this question. His children are grown...he really should not have anything to do with his ex wife unless it has something to do with their child's wedding or something similar. He wants to have you when it is easy. No way is this acceptable and I would take it as a sign as to where you stand in his life. Move on...

Yep, Rev. Ruby's smart: She says his family in Europe probably doesn't know about you and thinks he's still married.

Think about it: Has he, to your absolute knowledge, ever told his family about you? Has he talked to them on the phone with you there, put you on the phone with them (language issues or not, you can both say hello)? Has he assured you that they know about you? Sent them photos with both you and him in them?

If the answer to these things is no, then ask him point blank: "I've never been in contact with any of your family. Do they know you are living with me and that it is a serious relationship and not a 'roommate' thing?" See if he hems and haws and hesitates. If he does, follow up with "Do they still think you are with your wife?"

I think it's a red flag that he has LIVED with you for four years but still is not divorced. It's another red flag that he's so casual about going abroad with (or at the same time as, to the same places as) his wife. She IS his wife, because they are still legally married, yet he is too lazy and takes you too much for granted to just sign a few papers and divorce her.

This smells to high heaven. He is still legally married to her and is traveling with her and I would wager he has never told his relatives you exist. Another possibility is that he sees this trip as a test drive for him and her to get together. And just because a guy says he couldn't live with her again -- that is not the same as telling you that you come first with him. She will be there, so familiar and so convenient....

Have you sat down with him and in a calm way said just what you say here? Directly and without accusation but so it is crystal clear that this is A Huge Deal to you and a possible dealbreaker on your relationship? Have you asked him if this is an attempt to rekindle things, and if he says no, will you then have the strength to ask him to take you and treat you as what you are --in effect his "wife'?

And whatever happens with the trip, time to stop tolerating letting him live with you while he's only separated. If he's saying "it's just a piece of paper," well, it's a piece of paper that he needs to finalize so you know your priority in his life and he is legally free of her. He has zero claim that it's "for the kids" that he isn't finalizing the divorce. I'm not saying you and he have to marry if that's not your thing but I think he and she have to divorce or you are clearly not his priority.

I guess I just don't get why she can't go any other time to see her family. Why would his family care about seeing her? The kids aren't going.

It's very strange. I don't get it.

Does he say he understands why she wants to go with him? What does he say about that?

You can't do anything about it, but it doesn't mean you have to like it.

Good first question! Welcome to Mamapedia! Of course "something will come of it". Time for a new boyfriend. Good luck.

I agree with "Hell on Heels". If they're friendly enough for a European vacation, they should be able to divorce. My sis & her hubby are dragging their divorce out forever, but they are struggling to come to terms with custody/child support. What are your BF and his wife fighting about???? I think it's time to take a step back from this relationship!

It is soooo rare when we all agree on a situation. I like all the responses but especially the one from One Perfect One. Be gone when he returns! You will have all that time to move, yard sale, get your mail forwarded, etc.

Yes, long flights are hard, but not hard enough to put a current relationship in jeopardy.

Bottom line, he is her husband. I think they are both playing happy home to extended family.
Good luck.

Sounds to me like there's no reason other than her own motives to travel together. He has you. If he wouldn't take you (nevermind the excuses), then he should not take her. She's a grown woman who can do it on her own. That is what it means to not be together anymore. I would be offended, frankly, if my SO of FOUR years didn't want me to join him on a trip to see his family. He doesn't want to be a tour guide? Or he doesn't want to spend that time with you? His reply really rubbed me wrong. People can vacation separately, sure. I want to take trips with just my sister. But I wouldn't tell DH "stay home so I don't have to be bothered with showing you around." Maybe it's time you learned Dutch. Even if he travels alone and you enjoy your down time.

Well, if they are both from a foreign country and he's going for a visit and she;s just realized she is missing her family too. I think traveling alone is boring. I'd rather travel with someone else too. He won't have to play tour guide with her either.

It's your choice. He's legally married to this woman. He is married to this woman but living with you. It sounds like he picked you.

I'd want to work through this with him, talking to him, letting him know how it hurts your feelings that he's going with her but won't take you.

I would suggest that the adage of protecting ones self from temptation applies here. They may intend to travel as friends but they have a history with the intimacy of love. The emotional as well as physical. They will be traveling which for me feels romantic. They are away from the everday life that helps us maintain boundaries and can easily be away from family there.

I'm not saying that they will be intimate but the situation is such that I suggest it can easily happen even tho they don't intend for it to happen.

I've been single most of my life. I've traveled alone and had romantic flings even when in a semi-committed relationship. We always had the agreement that I could do as I chose. It worked for us. However, we did not live together and did not count on a future together. It was OK for bi th of us to end our relationship if we found ourselves uncomfortable with our separate affairs. I suggest that unless you can accept the possibility that they may be intimate, emotionally and/or physically you ask him to not share the trip with her.

I would be very hurt that he doesn't want you to meet his family. I would also wonder what he's hiding. Sure, they know you exist but they, too, could wonder how serious his committment to you is, especially when he brings his wife.

Ronda: We don't all agree on this one. Not to be corny but: "If You Love Someone, Set Them Free. If They Come Back They’re Yours, etc."

I'm kind of unusual in this, but it wouldn't bother me. If you don't have trust with him, you have nothing. Her extended family is there, so in a way it makes sense for them to go "together." It sounds like they will be mostly with their respective families while they are over there. I think you should believe him that he wants time with his family and to reconnect with friends.

Let him go with your good wishes, go on with your life, and when he gets back it will be obvious whether he wants to be with you or with her.

You might as well trust him; it won't make you a sucker, it will just make you a rare prize of a woman that he would be a fool to let go. And if he's a fool -- that's his loss.