Truth Be Told...... - Ecorse,MI

Hmm, seems like I'm the minority here in regards to blanket punishment. I have always hated blanket punishment (punishing all for the wrongdoing of one) It teaches the ones that didn't do anything wrong that it doesn't matter, you will still be punished for the wrongdoings of those around you. Just not right. Yes, it's a difficult situation. I always tell my kids I will have more respect for them and be less angry if they are straightforward with me. Caught in a lie is way worse than coming clean. Honesty is the best policy, blah blah blah, you get it. Why would you punish the one that suffered the destruction of property again along with the one that committed the destruction? Just never made any sense to me.

When none of them will admit to it then yes they all get an effective punishment... like they have to clean the house every room until someone comes forward. When they do come clean with the truth if they made the other clean while being innocent then they have to do all the chores for x amount of time on top of being grounded.. It only took two times of doing this and now when I tell them what is going to happen they quickly come forward or the innocent will look at the guilty party and tell them you know you did it, you better tell the truth... the guilty one usually looks down or their body language gives them away.

This happened to a family I know who used this method. The innocent girl stepped up b/c she felt sorry for her sister. The guilty sister didn't care and watched the innocent child get punished. The truth finally came out and the parents felt awful.

I don't know what I would do. I would probably speak to the girls privately and separately. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. If you punish them all, then the innocent sister may pressure the guilty sister to step up next time. I hope you get some good advice!

lying does not work in our home..period.

so I would do like you said EVERYONE will be punished if the truth does not come out...someone needs to fess up and it had better be the truth...joke that got out of hand, accident, etc. but ALL will be punished for the crime if the "criminal" does not stand up.

If she doesn't admit to it - then she will still be punished and that will be that...

We tell our kids - we can handle the truth - we MAY NOT LIKE THE TRUTH - but we can handle the truth...if it was wrong - YES, you MAY be punished but not as badly as if you were to lie to me - then you will get in trouble for the deed AND for lying - so it's easier just to tell the truth!!

GOOD LUCK!!

Depends on the age. This technique backfired for us, but one of my kids is manipulative and the other one is passive. If the two suspects are not imbalanced where one will bully or manipulate the other into a confession or sharing the blame, then it may work.

I don't remember the details of our situation but it involved $10 (either missing or that was the value of something that had been lost or broken, I don't recall) and two 13-year-olds. We were 99% certain of who it was but had no evidence so we told both kids before school that if we didn't have a confession by 2:30 that afternoon, they would both lose their phones (or some other privilege). So they came home and offered a compromise where neither one admitted wrong doing but each would contribute $5 towards restitution. We didn't take the deal and took both of their phones and the prime suspect cracked because a) he's not terribly bright and b) gets easily upset. He did get punished further. The co-conspirator also lost her phone for a day or two for being stupid enough to try to cover for him.

Anyway, that's what happened here - I'm interested to see what experiences other people have had. I think this was a Brady Bunch episode, wasn't it? Hmmm...what would Mike and Carol do?

I've always felt it was ridiculous to punish the whole because one did something wrong.

Also, my youngest will always step up and take the blame no matter whether she did it or not, because she doesn't want to get stronger consequences. And my oldest is the most stubborn kid in the world who will sometimes deny doing it no matter what the punishment, just to let his sister get punished with him.

If I were in your place, I would take each of the younger two aside and speak to each of them privately about respecting other's belongings. I would say something like this...... (yeah, I know, it's pretty heavy on the guilt trip, but it usually works).......

"You know, Sister C. I don't know who wrote on Sister A's ___. I don't know if it were you or Sister B. -- No, you may not say anything right now. This is my turn to talk, and your turn to listen only. -- I thought I had been raising you girls to respect other's belongings. Apparently I'm not doing a very good job as your mom. Because one of you wrote on your Sister's ___ and has made her very upset. I know you wouldn't like it if someone did that to your ____. I'm so disappointed that either of you would treat your sister like that.

And, even worse, one of you is lying to me. And I am so hurt, and so sad, that either of you would lie to me. The worst part of lying is that now I will have trouble believing you when you tell me something. I won't be able to trust either of you for a long time. Trust is something that has to be earned back. And because I don't know which of you is lying to me, I won't be able to trust either of you. That makes me so sad, that you would not respect me enough to be straight with me. And it makes me sad that I cannot trust my own daughters. Trust is so very, very important. When you have someone's trust, you earn their respect and admiration. It's so important in life to deserve others' trust. When you lose someone's trust.....(and here I would shake my head slowly and sadly)......sometimes you never get it back. You've lost it forever.

Remember what I've always told you.......if you do something wrong, it is far better to own up to it, and take the punishment. Because if you don't take the responsibility for your actions, and I find out later that you were the guilty party, your punishment will be far, far worse. Now, that's all I'm going to say about this incident. I hope that you will think about what I have said, and know that you can still do the right thing, if you know what happened to Sister A's ____.

And now, I'm going to go out and buy Sister A a whole brand new _____ to replace the one that was ruined."

Hopefully one of them will say something that will lead to the truth.

Good luck.

I know when I realize I made a mistake, I'd rather unmake it than talk about my guilty feelings. If the damaged object can be replaced, repaired or cleaned, then you might consider telling your kids that the object must be replaced, repaired or cleaned by this weekend (or a plan established to make that possible). You don't care who did it so much as you care about making it right again. When my daughter reached the stage where she would try to get out of admitting guilt by lying, that strategy worked very well. If there's a way to atone or correct a mistake, that's actually a pretty good 'out' for the perpetrator. And the whole issue becomes an exercise in positive outcomes.

If the object was irreplaceable, then you're still stuck in the original problem. But bear in mind that the situation is probably far more complicated than damaging a precious item. The damage was possibly done in retaliation for something the 'victim' did to the perp. This could have been an actual event, or a general attitude (like superiority), or something simply perceived by the perp (like jealousy). In any event, chances are pretty good that the perpetrator is not solely guilty.

I know this from growing up with three younger sisters and seeing from the inside all the shenanigans they pulled against each other and me – I was always blameless, of course ;-). But I did try to be the peacekeeper between one sister who was easily offended and held ferocious grudges, and one who was desperate for attention and unable to resist an opportunity to jab the rest of us where it hurt. We had plenty of drama in our family, but it seemed my mom knew no other approach than to blame and punish, hard and often. Because the punishments often landed on the wrong sisters (especially the 'group' punishments), that would only exacerbate all the feelings of resentment will that circulated in our household. It did nothing to help us get along better.

My point is, I would be more interested in why this happened than who did it. The sister who did the damage probably did not just wake up one day and say, "Hey, I think I'll go disrespect my sister's _____!" And sometimes, those conflicts need to be heard and addressed in a way that can start to shift the core dynamics, or the behaviors will keep recurring (perhaps in new and creative ways, but still distressing).

I hope you'll read the book Siblings Without Rivalry by Faber and Mazlish. While I haven't read that particular title, I have heard it's every bit as brilliant and effective as another wonderful book by the same authors, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk. I think you'll end up with some really positive approaches to use with common family issues.

My mother at one point made me and my sister a promise.

"If you will always tell me the truth, I will not get mad. I may be disappointed or my feelings may be hurt, but I will not be mad at you.."

She stuck with this.. She was also good about guilt, so If I had done something like this to my sisters toy, I would have admitted it and had to explain why and then probably have to either replace it or figure out a way to make it up to my sister , with my mother and sisters approval.

In this situation she would probably say, "L., I am surprised and disappointed you would do this to your sisters toy." I understand you were mad at her for being in your room, but you are the daughter that has always been so mature." "I guess maybe I have missed something."

I would be in a puddle telling her and my sister I was sorry, but she had frustrated, me, but would replace the item or just talk with her next time..

And then she would pull my sister aside and remind her that she had been bothering me and how would she feel if I had been bothering her..

Anyway you get the idea..

The good thing is my mother really did follow through on this. We felt secure in knowing we could just be honest in the first place.

I only have one kid, so no sibs to blame stuff on, but I do have a brother, and I can tell you that we had a code. Still do. We never, and I mean NEVER ratted each other out. Yes we often said "I'm telling" but we never did. But we would get each other back in some awful way or another. OMG the things we use do that our mother still doesn't know about and we are both 40+. Now I know that probably doesn't help you with your particular situation, but my point is that kids have a dynamic with each other, and eventually the "offender" will get re-payed in kind by one or the other of her sisters. And if it helps, when our mom knew something was up, we'd both get punished unless she had absolute proof one way or the other.

I use my Mother's intuition on these things and very rarely has it let me down. Chances are you know who the culprit is. I usually say I already know the truth, but I would much rather hear it from the person who did it. I like to use examples such as..... Say someone spilled sugar all over the floor. Would I be more proud of the person who came forward and explained that they spilled the sugar or if they left it for me to discover. I am going to know that the sugar is spilled either way. No one can clean it up well enough for me to not find out. I am disappointed that the sugar was spilled but I end up hurt if I realize one of my children lies about it. I have raised my children to tell the truth and that means that somehow I have failed to express how important it is. Guilt is my biggest weapon. I explain that lying is a sign of immaturity but telling the truth in a difficult situation show courage. I would hope my children would be courageous. If they show immaturity in the little thing then it worries me, even scares me, that they will make poor choices when it comes to the big things. I then go on to explain I already know who did it and I will have to punish that person even more for the lye if it continues because I love them so much that I would really want the to remember in the future that they must be honest. Someone who loves them would give them the punishment they have earned.

Good luck!

I might add that when I am wrong, then when I find out the truth the child that lied gets in even greater trouble because they threw their sibling under the bus. They have to make it right with the sibling for allowing them to take a punishment they didn't deserve. I then apologize to the innocent for what I have done.

But what if neither knows the truth? You are being kind cryptic with your wording so I haven't a clue really but I am guessing one child is accusing the other or taking or hiding an item.

If that is the case here is the problem. What if the child who's item is missing actually misplaced the item? She is not lying, she doesn't know where it is but she is wrong as to what happened. The child being accused is still telling the truth because she wouldn't know where the first child put it.

So by punishing them both you could be wrongly punishing both of them. That would be best case. Worst case is one of them lies and makes up a story as to what happened to it to get out the punishment and you have actually taught them to lie to get out of trouble.

I guess I am saying you better be pretty darn sure the child being accused really did do whatever.

My kids love to get each other in trouble, so that tactic is doomed to fail with them.

Have you ever heard of the "mommy dot?" I told my kids they have a mommy dot on thier forehead that only I can see. It shows up when they are lying. It's funny, when they are lying, they try to cover thier forehead so I can't see it! I know yours are older, but it still works because they end up looking up or putting thier bangs over thier forehead or some kind of way they tip you off.

In your case, I would also get a handwriting sample from each. Go all CSI on em!

Is there any chance that a friend of one of the girls could have done it?

I do two punishments, one for the lie and one for the deed done. I want them to associate telling the truth with less punishment, but it isn't magical. We all are willing to risk that mom and dad will not think we did it, rather then fess up.

If you feel two girls are keeping the truth from you then they should both be punished for lying.

Best wishes!

Well, you don't have to punish the sister that had her item damaged.
That leaves two.
The only problem with punishing the other two until someone confesses is that the guilty party may not care if her sister gets punished as well.
My little sister was a naughty child.
She knew she'd get in trouble one way or the other so it didn't bother her at all for me to go down with her. Me saying I didn't do something wasn't good enough. Heck, I'd get in trouble if my mom knew my little sister DID do something naughty because I guess I was supposed to stop her.

The punishing as a group works well if you have an actual group and they aren't siblings. There's less likelihood everyone will be willing to take punishment for one kid. When there are just two, sometimes the innocent party will confess just to lessen the punishment.
That said, sometimes you have to get crafty and outsmart your kids.
My kids couldn't lie to me if they tried. Both very bad at it. (Thank goodness). I always told them the punishment for doing something wrong would be far less than the punishment for lying. And I stuck with that.

Body language can be a huge giveaway.
Watch for the signs.....

Best wishes.

I'd hafta agree with punishing them all till one confesses.