Taking Their Toys Away?

It sounds like you have already gotten some good advice. I agree with the need for professional help (regardless of the cost, find a way). I have learned with my own kids that it does work to take things away, with the chance to earn them back, however the child has to CARE about the loss. If the child doesn't care about what you are taking away, then it probably won't work. Also, what will spend their time doing? Is it possible for you to spend time with them in organized activities (crafts, games, etc.) Do they play outside? They will only continue to cause trouble if they have nothing to do! Good Luck :-) S.

I say go for it and the next time the 8 yr old runs off knowing mom cant run after him have the cops bring him home. the cops will back the parents and scare the pants off of him. make them write sentences start with 50 and if they arent done the next day double them and keep doubling them till they are done. writers cramps are a good teacher. no toys at all. no tv no stereo no video games a bed a wall a pillow and paper and pencil if they write on the wall they clean it and scrub all walls from top to bottom until the whole room is done.

give them game time only after chores are done. the more chores they get done the more they earn back but get rid of broken stuff while cleaning it out. this will teach them to clean and get respect. it worked with all of my kids and I went through 4 teens. good luck and I think your on the right track but I agree with husband everything goes out.

I think you are on the right track if you are unable to afford help right now. It is possible that the therapist would tell you to do exactly what you are doing so go ahead and do it.

The only thing I would modify would be to pick up the toys that are left on the floor as they are left on the floor. Start there.

Start by telling the girls what you are going to do. Tell them any toys, clothes, bedding left on the floor you are going to pick up and take away to storage. Any thing broken will be thrown away. Don't make a big deal about it. No anger, no emotion. If they grab it, let them have it. No power struggles here.

As they leave more toys on the floor pick up those toys, until there are no more toys left on the floor. (natural consequences---if you don't pick up your toys they are going to disappear) Hopefully they will get the message before all their toys disappear.

Do the same with their bedding and their clothing. Their bedrooms should also be up to your standards. If they end up with only one blanket and a sheet to sleep with they will get the idea about making their beds neat. (natural consequences)

And don't replace the curtains until you get better behavior.... Shame on her. If she doesn't like sharing her sister's bed, she can sleep on the floor. (natural consequences)

When they ask what they can do to get their things back that is when you can have them do chores or say no fighting or ask for better behavior, etc...

For this to succeed you have to do this without emotion. To do otherwise will get you into a power struggle with your girls. And that is not what you want to do. Try to pick things up when they are asleep or out of the room to avoid them running to grab things. The non emotional thing will be the hardest part.

Good luck. You are doing the right thing.

You really need to get to the source of why your children dont mind. 4 yr olds are not too young to put away their toys.... and should do it when told to. What has been their current consequence when you ask them to do something and they dont? Do you follow through with the consequence?
The only toys I took away were the ones mine would fight over... so they both got punished by its removal. When they both appologised and agreed to play nicely together with it, they got it back. If I had to pick up their mess, they would have to stay in their room for awhile and know Mom was disturbed with them. Teaching them to say they're sorry after defiance is a good communication and learning tool. You cant start that too young. Kids dont like to disappoint their parents but they do need to know the difference. Do they know when they've make you happy? If there are no clear boundaries set they will be confused and manic because they just dont know what they should be doing. Teaching your children wrong from right is an ongoing process that starts the minute the become mobile. The sooner they learn the word NO means no, the easier they are to raise.

A.,
Wow, you are going through a lot. Hugs to you. Your plan is a good one. Your children may be upset with you for a bit but you are helping them in the long run. They will thank you later for helping them learn to control their actions. I would definitely look into some assistance from the school psychologist. I had a thought- the college I go to has a student assistance program that the student and the student's immediate family can receive counseling through a counseling program in the community at no cost to the student. Have you or your husband looked into that possibility? Our area also has a foundation that offers family/ child counseling on a sliding scale and they accept several insurances and the medical card. Is there anything like that in your area? If you haven't you can call your township offices. They will have resources.
Good luck to you. I hope your family is able to find peace and things begin to look up. Hang in there.

While taking away their toys might help "show them who's boss," I don't think it will be very effective long term. Sounds like your kids are young (8 and under?), so now is the time to really build those relationships. While you don't want to be their friend (you are their mother), you do want to work to have a very loving and trusting relationship. By doing this, you will be able to talk to them about their behavior, what's appropriate, what you expect, etc. Teaching proper discipline is really about teaching people how to live a well-disciplined life. You want to help them to have good self control and know how to behave in the future. My point is, you don't want to focus too much on consequences for bad behavior, rather encouraging good future behavior.

The Sears doctors could say this so much better than me. They have a great website, http://askdrsears.com/, and yes, one of them is on "The Doctors." They are great at giving very concrete ideas for providing positive, nurturing environments that produce healthy, happy families.

Good luck to you!

Oh, I can so relate to this. I should read some of your other posts to get more history, but check out the book called The Explosive Child by Ross W. Greene. I just read the whole thing (after another mom recommended it on here, thank you!) and it taught me so much about my Strong-willed girl. We are drastically changing our approach to dealing with her because of it. Before you take all the toys away, I would try to read it. It describes how children like this are delayed in the area of coping with frustrations and they blow up at the littlest things. Instead of thinking of them as trying to manipulate or defy us, they really need to be taught how to deal with things in a calm manner. They "want" to be good kids, they just need help getting themselves under control.

The other thing I would try is flylady.com. It's a website with wonderful, inspirational ideas on how to keep your house nice and decluttered. I bet you can find some routines to help you and the kids keep up with the toys. You might want to work with the kids to get rid of some things they don't want, but then have a schedule for 3 times a day when they pick up their things with you "helping". I have found that if I'm in the room with my 7 and 5 year old and picking up with them, they don't mind doing it. Also, make it fun. Tell them you will set the timer for 15 min and you will all work together to put stuff away and after 15 min. you can all have a popsicle or watch a show or whatever. Then stop the clean-up and work on it the next day. If you just do a little at a time, they won't think of it as work.

I also have a reward chart where we track points for doing things when asked, picking up without complaining, and staying calm. It's great. Oh, and I ask the kids to pick up their rooms each night and we read our stories in the cleanest room. So, it's a little competition for them to work quickly to get it done. If both rooms are clean we alternate between rooms each night.

I would try some positive approaches before going with the drastic toy removal. We've taken all of our daughters toys from her room before and it did nothing...except we had boxed up toys in each room for a month that we had to walk around. :(

Good luck!

A., none of us are there to see your children's behavior or the way you and their dad interact with them, so it's really not possible to give a "blessing" to taking away all their toys.

But it sounds like an act of desperation to make a move that extreme, and while it may (or may not) shock them into better behavior for awhile, it may end up backfiring and creating a new wall of resentment and hurt that will not serve your future parenting issues.

What I have found to be universally true is that moderation almost always works better than extreme decisions. How about removing all but one or two favorite and often-enjoyed toys. That will address the scattered toy problem, help your daughters focus on caring appropriately for fewer items and appreciating them more, give them the opportunity to play, which is healthy, and open up new space and energy in your family for game times, which will probably be beneficial in deepening your emotional connections with your daughters.

You could have children who are sometimes called "spirited," and if so, you might do well to add to your parenting library the highly-regarded book, Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, and Energetic by Mary Kurcinka.

And I think I recommended this book to you before: How to Talk So Kids Will Listen, and Listen So Kids Will Talk, by Faber and Mazlish. From my own experience, this is the best, most effective parenting book I've ever used. It's about making real, respectful connections with your kids, standing in their shoes, encouraging their own capacities for problem-solving, and in general, making life more peaceful, happy, and satisfying for parents and children.

Whatever is going on in your familly, it's gotten that way over time and probably as the result of many little influences and events. Taking all toys away and assigning more chores will possibly get your girls' attention, but it's not going to fix those ongoing problems. You need actual positive strategies, and not just punishments.

I honestly don't think removing toys works. Mind you, I have much younger children, but I have learned with my 3 year old that threats and things like that just do not work.

What works is listening to her and trying to find a compromise that works for both of us. Yes,I do compromises with a 3 year old. It works. She picks up her belongings, and I have the comfort of a tidy house.

I think removing their toys will just make their behavior worse. What will they do with themselves if all their play things are gone? I'm sure it will involve playing with your things, if they have nothing of their own.

Forgive me, but this seems like the act of desperate parents.
Are you paying for a storage unit? If so, you can pay for your kids to get some counseling, if needed. If you're thinking they *might* need counseling...they most likely do.
If you are re-reading your parenting books, surely you see that consistency is they key.
House rules (posted and reviewed daily) need to be enforced and consequences given.
Now, I am a believer in that kids play with about 10% of their *stuff* 90% of the time, so I'm sure there's a lot of things that can be boxed up and put away without causing angst. Too many toys just makes for a chaotic environment and kids that are overwhelmed and STILL don't know what to do with themselves.
So I guess I agree with eliminating excess crapola from the house, but I don't think that making your kids *earn* back their stuff is going to be the magic bullet here.....
There are LOTS of resources for getting help for kids...if you have any kind of insurance, it will be covered.
Have these girls evaluated. If they (or O.) have ODD, ADHD, ADD, etc, then you're banging your head against the wall to no avail.
Good luck!

I haven't read your other posts so I don't know your whole story. However, I have 4 children and we used to live in a small house. There wasn't room for all of their toys and books. So we put them all in large storage bins and rotated them. A couple of bins were available at one time, the rest were stored. This made the mess and clean up more manageable. My kids appreciated the toys they had, were not overwhelmed with too many choices. And each time we rotated to the next set of bins, it was like Christmas with all new toys.

Yes! I would go through with this plan if I were you. It will remove some of the battles you are dealing with and allow you more control over the situation in your home.

Hi A.,
I have taken toys/privileges away from my son as a way to get him to improve his behavior. For us, it worked. At one point when he was a toddler I stripped his room down to the bed, dresser and books - he then had to earn his toys back - much the way you are thinking of doing this.

At 14, I now take the PS3 controllers and block his access to the computer - same theory - just "bigger" toys. It still works. He knows the rules and when he decides to break them he knows what the consequences will be.

It is about taking back control of your home. Right now you children have all the power. So, try it - explain the rules to them, write them out and post them on the fridge. Explain what they need to do and what toys/privileges they will earn upon meeting those behavior milestones. Be very clear that any regression of behavior will result in the privileges being immediately taken away again.

As for counseling - look into your local free health clinics and mental health association. There are many programs that offer counseling on a sliding fee scale basis. Also, if you husband is a student check out counseling services at his school - many colleges have services available to students and their families. I know I received all of my health care for free at university when I attended of sooo many years ago.

But to me it sounds more like your kids have just taken over - little Lord of the Flies thing going on. If there have not been any clear consequences to their behavior it just escalates until you are where you are now with them.

Don't make any more excuses for their behavior. Begin today to take back control and help your children learn how to be responsible, participatory members of your household.

Good Luck and God Bless.

Wow-you really have a lot on your hands and my heart goes out to you. Your children may need more than just taking away their toys. I would encourage you to speak to the school district in your area about available counselling resources in your area. There are a lot of low cost/no cost options available. You may even speak to their DR. If money wasn't an issue, what would you do? Then go after that option. There are a lot of resources dedicated to children that many people don't know about.

I can't understand what you are going thru because I haven't had a similiar problem, but I would say reach out to the resources you have (school and DR) and then go from there.

I suggest taking the toys and tv's and any other thing they can be distracted with and purchase board games and books. Try spending time with your kids. Play the board games WITH them. Read with them. Use your imagination with them.

I think sometimes parents rely too much on toys to kepp their children entertained. Sometimes we need reminders that we need to parent them and be there for them.

Not sure if there is alot of yelling in the house - but if there is that might be whu the kids are yelling back at you. Try using nice words and ask them nicely to do things. Maybe take a baby step and ask nicely for them to help you do 1 of their chores and work with them and then slowly fade out and allow the chore to soley be theirs. It sounds like you guys need to start all over and start at the beginning and retrain all of you how to treat eachother.

Good Luck.

Chores not done, they don't eat. Simple.

Hello A.;

First I want to commend you for reaching out for help and ask you to take a deep breath. It does sound like one daughter has more anger/defiance issues than the other and maybe the one is learning from the other as to what works. I would hold on and really address your concerns with the councelor at school. I wonder if the school has stated that there are any of these issues at school? If there is truly something wrong it would more than likely show at school also. If not, it is more than likely family dynamic and then it is about finding the thing that works. I have a VERY strong willed child and have found that positive reinforcement works the best along with the program 1-2-3 Magic by Dr. Thomas Phelan. It has saved my daughter and my relationtionship. If you stick with it, it will work and bring your sanity back. As for the room, I also have a child that is very messy and doesnt much keep her things nice. I have had to learn to shut the door and let her have her CRUD. I only ask her to clean twice a month. The only line I draw is with things that cause me to do extra, like throwing clean clothes in the dirty hamper due to laziness. She now has to help do laundry, fold and put away, which cuts down on the first habit. Direct consequences always work best.
As for holding all of their toys until they earn them back over long periods of time, it is difficult for young children to keep things as clean and tidy as we would like and holding too many long term goals can be too danting for a child. They need more direct rewards and consequences. Have you tried an allowance system??

I wish you the best in your venture and please keep breathing.

D..

You're worried taking all toys away will be too much.
Destroying furniture, ripping curtains, dumping cloths/everything - peeing in inappropriate places? (That is all over the top behavior. Get them both evaluated asap.)
I'm thinking taking just toys away won't be enough.
You might have to take everything out of the room except for mattresses.

Part of the problem is, and I'm sorry for this, but you don't seem to realize that this behavior isn't normal. You want to explain it away, hope they'll grow out of it, hope it's easily fixable. If the problem isn't normal, then normal solutions are not going to help.
I could be wrong (I hope I'm wrong - I'm certainly no professional child psychologist), but you need to make a point of seeking out some professional help for them for all your sakes.

Your whole family needs therapy. Get on a list through a religious organization and stay on it. That is what we did when I was a student and raising children. The therapist they gave me was a wonderful woman who was a parent of three grown children. Do not see a therapist who has no children. They just don't know what it is all about.
You need help having consistancy. Your husband needs help to be a hands on father not so preoccupied with his education. Your children need TIME with their parents doing things. You can begin to have family clean up nights and family game nights. Play cards together if you have no other games. Play games that are friendly. Get a Monopoly set and play that together or scrabble game.
Repair the bunkbed and say not much. Kids do things by accident often.
Good that you get the Hothead evaluated. Her behavior is in need of real boundaries. Is she the 8 year old?
Sounds like tough behavior but 8 year olds can feel completely neglected and act up like this. The tearing up is a fear response acted out as anger.
The children are acting up as a unit. Even if it is a hard year you and your husband have not laid a good foundation for them since they were little.
You definitely must get help and tough love is not the answer.