Should I Just Seclude Them?

Well, first off-I also would have given the child a napkin to put the beans on also. Sorry but I think that you were being very punitive there with your son. He WAS going to eat it but just wanted to take the beans out. Think of what you hate to eat most in the world and consider if it were mixed in with something that somebody was FORCING you to eat...wouldn't YOU want to at least get the hated food away. I know I would. I really don't think that we as parents give our children enough respect when it comes to eating. Because each of us has foods that are repulsive to us and would literally gag to be force fed that food.

And you are doing your children much more harm by isolating them from the world than you think. You need to give them the tools to deal with the influences of other children. There will come a day when they will need to leave you and you will want them to be prepared for that. Also-it is unfair to force them spend their childhoods in a world of your creation without friends or any other outside influence. You are already sequestering them enough by homeschooling them-at least let them enjoy the company of the neighborhood kids. A huge part of childhood is friendships-the good the bad and the ugly of them.

One of the most important, and sometimes hardest, parts of parenting is backing off and letting your children be individuals. We need to set expectations and boundaries, and then let them explore and deal with the world - including other people.

Your son is 7? He will not always act the same, in every situation, with every person, on any day. Do you? He will have "respectful and obedient" moments, and other moments of expressing himself in many ways - including whining.

We will wear ourselves out as parents if we take on every behavior and action of our children as our own. This causes so much tension, between you, your child, and the others in the room. When you are tense, your children pick up on it and respond to that. Practice taking a deep breath and letting...it...go... Please think about what is most important and what is the "small stuff", or parenting will only get harder as your children get older and their need to be individuals grows with them.

I want to address the issue with grandma. My daughter and I were at odds for several years with her saying I undermined her authority. We tried to discuss the issue and my insight was that I intervened when I thought she was being unreasonable. I could see happening with us what happened with you and the food issue. I would feel that my authority was undermined.

One view from my side is that what is happening in my home is my responsibility. I want peace and when my daughter is creating a negative atmosphere I'll intervene to try and get everyone back on a pleasant track. Of course that didn't work because she saw my efforts as undermining her. I finally realized I have to not say anything and I'd leave the room when things got tense even tho I thought if she'd trust me I could get things back on track.

In the case with the beans, I'd probably have offered the napkin too. Seems senseless to continue with that fight. I can see that you thought you were disciplining him for whining in the first place. I see it you punishing him for whining and not taking into account that he and you had succeeded in reaching a compromise which, in my view, means that there is no need to punish. Not letting him have a plate is not discipline because it doesn't teach anything. I see it as punishment which is counter productive. He came around to do what you wanted. That needs to be praised.

Your son is still only 7. He's still learning how to behave. You could teach him by suggesting that it would be better next time to not start out by whining and to ask for what he wants in a calm way. Then continue with your positive exchange. As it was you turned a positive move back into a negative situation. You created the negative energy.

You described your mother as whining right back to your son and then eventually giving in. When we whine we usually feel that we have no control. If I were you I would find a quiet time to calmly discuss how she is feeling. Based only on this post, I suspect that she's very aware of your feelings and is feeling insecure. What you do with your children at her house causes her to be on edge at the same time she knows that you won't back her.

I suggest that if the two of you could come up with rules that both of you can get behind that she'll back you and you'll back her. It's not you against her. You can partner.

Both of you, perhaps would benefit from the idea that when someone whines you can't hear them. Do not respond. Act as if they're not talking. Ignore them until they ask for what they want in a calm way. Of course, you have to teach them that you're going to do this. The first few times you'll have to say, "i can't hear you when you whine. Ask for what you want in a big boy voice?" (Do not do this with your mother when she whines. But do talk with her out of the children's hearing about how her tone of voice upsets you. I also suggest that you whine at times too. We all do.)

Both you and your mother have the same goal; to teach your children how to behave. Your mother does have a role in that. My daughter and I eventually worked our relationship out. It did take time and some difficult weeks//months before we were able to really listen to each other.

One thing that helped me was she stopped saying, "I"m their mother. You aren't!" as if I had no authority. And this came about in part because she accepted that I do have authority in my house. I did and do back her up even in my house as long as my rules are considered. An important rule is no fighting and what I saw happening is my daughter fighting with her children over unimportant things such as refusing to give him a plate.

Things my daughter would do is say in anger that they couldn't visit me again because they didn't pick up their toys by themselves. She objected to my getting on the floor and helping them. In their house she didn't help but in my house I do. I didn't see that as criticism of the way she did it but she felt that I was being critical and termed it undermining her authority when I continued to help pick up toys.

Another example perhaps related to food. At your house the kids have to clean their plates. At grandma's house they don't have to. It's a matter of different rules at different houses. If cleaning their plate is important to you then you need to discuss this with grandma and the two of you reach an agreement before the kids eat at grandma's house. Keep in mind that relationships involve give and take on both sides. Getting along with grandma means picking your battles and respecting her space and her belief's. Treat her as an adult and she'll whine less. Share the power with her. You don't always have to be in charge. And your children will be fine. In fact they'll be better off when the two of you can agree. They will see you working out your relationship and your differences in a calm co-operative manner. This is a good example for them.

My daughter and I do a better job of discussing our expectations ahead of time and out of the children's hearing. We have learned to trust each other. We've also learned to reinforce each other's rules by saying something like, "I know you can't do that at home but your Mom said it was OK to do that here." This sort of statement supports the other person.

I've heard over the years that the rules have to be the same in both houses. That just isn't true. Yes there have to be basic rules that are the same and it helps if discipline is similar but what really needs to happen is that the adults in both houses need to communicate with each other about what is important to them and work out agreements and compromises.

One very important reason that their can be different activities in the different homes is the very make up of the home. I can indulge my grandchildren because I am grandma and not mama. I'm retired. I'm not responsible for the day to day living. I have more time and more resources. My house is larger. I have a yard. I'm more relaxed. Does it make sense that I do everything the same. I don't think so. In fact, I tried doing that and could not. I am me and my daughter is she. We do things differently but as long as we respect each other and have the same goal of helping her children, my grandchildren, grow to be responsible and caring adults we can treat the children differently. We have similar values and expectations for our children. I'm not the mom but I am the grandma. Each of us has a role.

Do not seclude!! My kids are super well disciplined, know right and wrong, hardly ever misbehave etc. But when they started hanging around friend's kids and kids at the park and daycare, and now kindergarten for 1, they tried some wrong things they learned. Which was an excellent opportunity to teach them further in what they are allowed to do, and that not everyone is the same and they only have to worry about their own behavior.

To this day, no other kids have "sullied" mine and I would never isolate them. Sure, I avoid the SUPER bratty kids as far as hanging around a lot, but a bit of exposure to nonsense is unavoidable and valuable practice in dealing with lifelong bad influences. My kids are disciplined for sassy talking back or profanity (and no longer try either) no matter what they hear other kids say.

My kids act out sometimes when my MIL is here undermining me. So I discipline them. And reprimand her. And they stop. Can't blame them for trying.

Prep them to behave and eat properly etc or X will happen. Enforce if they decide to act out anyway.

Any kids can be good with nothing but goodness and perfect people around them and your total focus. You want kids who know right and wrong and can stand up for themselves no matter what other people are doing. Hang in there!

It is developmentally appropriate for both of your children to try on attitudes or expressions with their speech. You need to see this as a stage children go through. If you are consistent with what you believe than your children will learn what you want them to know.

We do not allow our children to watch violent or inappropriate shows on tv and they are not allowed to play with any type of gun (water, bb, etc.....)

My oldest is now ten. Recently my father was in the hospital and I needed to visit. My uncle lives nearby and offered to take care of the boys. He is a movie fanatic and probably has over five thousand titles. He asked if there was anything the boys could not watch. I told him that my oldest knew what was acceptable. Sure enough, when I arrived to pick them up, my uncle told me that my son 'policed' himself to the point that he could have probably watched some of the movies he said no too.

You must not be afraid to expose them to other children and family members. They need to see that there are other view points and that you are choosing your beliefs because they keep them safe.

I went to religious private elementary school and then to a private all girls' high school. I then attended a public university that had just 'earned' the title of best party school during that time. It was a lot to take in at 18, the first time away from my parents. I did 'police' myself but I wished that I had not been so naive. It would have helped me not to make the few mistakes I did.

It sounds as if you have lovely children. Give them some space to make small mistakes so they don't feel compelled to make big ones.

Good luck!

I don't mean this to be harsh, but what kind of kids do you want to have? Mindless bots? Seriously, you cannot shelter them forever. That's part of growing up. It's how you deal with THEM cursing, etc that matters. They cannot (and should not) live in a bubble forever.

I don't force my kid to be a member of the clean plate club. I will NOT force him to eat anything he doesn't want/like/feel like eating...and guess what? He eats EVERYTHING!

Perhaps Grandma feels you are being unreasonable? After all thelling him if he had "asked for that (plate) first without fussing he could have, but because he fussed he needs to just pick around them" is bit ridiculous and complicated for a 6 yo, don't you think?

I too have worried about bad behavior rubbing off, which some of it has on my 7 year old. Her clique-ish behavior and liking boys, totally learned in school. Its just a part of growing up that they will learn things you didnt teach them, its up to you to tell them these things are mean or ignorant and to try to instill empathy, but other than that we have to allow them to make bad decisions, its a part of life.

I agree with another poster that said its wrong to force your kids to eat something they dont like. If someone force fed me meat, or pimento cheese.. id hate them. I Think children need more rights when it comes to eating and going to the bathroom(for some reason kids are made to wait on a regular basis). I find what my kids like in the way of fruits and veggies, like one daughter will eat any fruit, but only salad veggies, and the other will eat any kind of pea or bean. Sometimes i feel like a short order cook but its important that they enjoy their eating experience, otherwise they will develop issues with food. I speak from experience.

oh geez, this post sends chills up my spine. not because you are horribly unreasonable, but any post about secluding homeschooling kids sets off a spate of anti-homeschooling sentiment.
be kind to your fellow homeschoolers. never suggest this.
homeschooling, including unschooling, can be done with firmness and boundaries. my homeschooled kids were around some who had mouths like sailors and no manners whatsoever and it bugged me. because our homeschool community is so varied, we encompass all sorts of parenting styles including some that are very hands-off. i had to learn to accommodate this, just as i did the public school friends whose favorite phrases were 'faggot' and 'you're so gay' (which i'm happy to say offended my boys as much as they did me.)
it's really not hard to put your foot down about this. tell your kids that you are aware that other kids say or do these things, but your family does not, and their doing so will result in disciplinary action. explain why. then do it.
as for the food thing, i have no patience for that. not as far as your child is concerned, but regarding your food police attitude. if you insist on a 'clean your plate' policy you are inviting battles. don't blame grandma. why on earth can't the child have a plate to put the beans on?
khairete
S.

My kids go to public school and have never repeated other kids bad behaviors at home because they have been brought up not to. They know what behavior is acceptable in our home and what is not. You mention that the little girl you babysit for is very sassy well if you let her do it of course your 3 yr old will think she can. When I babysit or my oldest has friends over the same rules that apply to my kids applies to those kids.
As far as grandma's house and the chili I would have given him a napkin and told him he could pick them out or not eat the chili now given the options if the fit continued I would probably pack the kids up and go home. I won't force them to eat especially if its something they don't like but I won't deal with whining about it. If there is one thing that gets on my nerves its whining! I think you need to set the rules before you get to grandma's house and stick to them and if he argues about leaving the next time you plan a visit over grandma's house either you or hubby stays home with your son and the other one takes your daughter over. He'll learn that your rules at home also applies to rules outside of your home.

They will not survive the realities of life if you seclude them. Discipline is about education. You want to teach them how to be good people, regardless of the situation. How can they learn to withstand the pressures if life and decide to be who they are if they don't have a way to deal with outside input?

Yes, they will pick up stuff, but if you don't tolerate it at home and help them understand why (over and over and over LOL) it isn't proper behaviour, they will learn. And for the kids you babysit, your house, your rules - that girl needs to respect you in your home, and her parents need to understand that you will expect her to behave. That said, they're KIDS - they're learning how to live in the world and it's not easy. They'll have lapses, etc. just like we all do.

I haven't had to deal with grandparent spoiling yet, as we live in different states, but from what I've read - they ALL see their job to spoil the grandkids a bit (some are just a lot worse than others). I wonder if you can pick your battles - what are the most important things they need the most consistency with? Maybe "ask" for their help in the areas they seem to be undermining you in - I don't know if it's intentional or them just wanting to make things "better", but you may have to be creative and "trick" them into supporting you/"helping" you.

Good luck!

Sounds like normal kid stuff. Just let your kids know that they are not allow to act like that. You can not shelter your kids forever. They need to learn that just because they see someone else doing it, that does not mean they are allowed to do it.

Regarding the bad language from the neighbor kids:
Tell your kids you will not allow that kind of language in your home.
That you can't make the other kids speak correctly
but your children are required to speak correctly.
Set up some kind of compliance/noncompliance chart/reward system.
Perhaps start them out with some quantity of stars or whatever,
so that you can take a star away if they mess up.
Please make some distinction between stuff they already know is wrong
and stuff they may do unknowingly.
Perhaps you could have a regular discussion with the kids
in which they check with you about new expressions
so that they'll KNOW what's OK and what isn't OK.

About the grandparents . . . this is much trickier.
Depending on your son's attitude and habits,
you might want to (attempt to) prepare him
before going to visit grandparents' home.
Give him a rundown of what is OK and what isn't OK.
Since you can't change your mom (or MIL),
you need to let your son know that you will not allow him
to fuss over food or other stuff at GPs.
About leaving . . .
instead of "get your stuff, we're leaving"
maybe try something like "we're leaving in 10 minutes.
Please start gathering your stuff to get ready for leaving."

Good luck and Happy Holidays.

Obviously secluding them is not a solution - sooner or later, they need to learn how to interact with other people and deal with the world, they just need to know where Mom and Dad stand. You need to establish some boundaries with the grandparents and other family members and let them know that you and you alone will handle discipline issues and they don't need to interfere (and it is possible that your son found the green beans less objectionable than the beans in the chili). It is normal for kids to test their limits and see what you will allow and what you will not.

As far as their behaviors they are picking up from other kids, you need to remind them that those behaviors are not acceptable and they will not be tolerated in your home. Rules are rules, and if they continue to behave this way because of the other kids they are playing with, they will not be allowed to play with them. There are plenty of nice kids out there that they can meet and become friends with. As for the girl you baby-sit, any chance you can talk with her parents and come up with a solution?

Don't forget to praise them for when they do behave well, and let them know how proud you are of them. Anything that they get positive reinforcement for is likely to be repeated.

I understand your pain. My parents spoil my children beyond belief and I too wish there was some type of bubble I could put them in. My oldest is twelve and it took me a long time to realize that secluding them can only hurt them. The outside world is not just the immediate neighborhood, there are different types of people and opinions out there and children need to be exposed in order for them to learn to distinguish on their own what's right and what's wrong and how to form their own opinions. Rewarding good behavior and acknowledging the bad things they've picked up along the way helps control those outside influences, but I wouldn't shelter them so much, it can only hurt them when they have to get out in the world. As far as grandparents go, I spoke to my parents on the side about the spoiling thing and what I learned was this, I can't control other people. My parents feel it's what grandparents do, spoil the kids and send them back home to me. So, I let grandma and grandpa do their thing and when they get home I make sure the kids know that that was a treat and then get them back into the real world asap. I know it's hard, but please don't hold your children too tight, they need room to grow and find out who they are, not just who you want them to be. Have a system of reward and punishment to create boundaries and everything should be okay.

My daughter plays great w/ everyone including her older cousin but once she has played with her, she will act very bratting. We have threatened her many times that if she can't behave after she plays w/ Briana, she can't play with her anymore. We know full well that we wouldn't be able to keep them completely apart but we can limit it. She also acts up after my aunt and cousin babysit so we have limited that as well.

Please don't seclude your kids. This is especially important since you do homeschool so they need the social interaction they get from these kids even if you don't like some of the influence. All you can do is put your foot down and remind them that although the other kids may say or do certain things it is not acceptable for them to say or do them too.

As for grandparents, you need to have a talk with them. Explain that although you know they will do things differently than you, especially when you aren't there you expect them NOT to undermind you. Elaborate to explain that when you are there, they are going by your rules they should support that. When you aren't there, certain things are ok to slide on but others are not. Tell them those things can are absolutes and tell them you really need there help and support on this so you can raise your kids the way you are trying to.

I'm nervous about answering because my answers are usually very different from what other people think. While we don't "seclude" our children, we do selectively allow who they can play with. We think it is very important that we shelter our children from what we do not want them to emulate. We see them as tiny seedlings that must be sheltered from the strong winds that can uproot them if exposed too early. We keep them in a greenhouse of sorts until their roots are strong enough to handle the storms. So, we only allow them to play with children from families that believe similarly to the way we do. Once they are older, they have a little more freedom in that area. But, we are definitely active in socializing with families we trust. We are blessed that we don't live in a neighborhood, although we have in the past. I wouldn't want that influence on our children. We are raising them with clear goals in mind, and most children would undermine what we are doing. You are right to be concerned. When they do end up playing with people who are not of like mind as you, I would keep them right there with me so that I can immediately correct what is going on if needed. And, children tend to watch their language around parents. Funny how that works. They know it is wrong. It takes more work, but it is so worth it. Once your children lose their innocence, you can never regain it. It's pretty important to protect it. About the little girl you babysit, if you have her a lot, it seems like you can instruct her in the manner you require for your home. Don't let her display an attitude that you don't want to see in your children. Four is young enough to be able to be taught properly. She is probably just displaying what she has learned from tv, siblings, etc. Gently correct her, and definitely correct your daughter when she mimics her.
About Grandma. Hard. But, just remind her that you need your son to obey you, and that she is making it harder. She may need to walk out of the room during these times of his defiance. You may need to remove your son and discipline him when he is disobeying your instructions. But, you do need to make it clear with your mother that you need her help. I don't think it has to be a hard or long talk with your mom, but it needs to be said. You are sitting right there when these things go on. Undo them. Take the napkin away, thank you mother, but remind her in front of your son that he needs to obey you. It will not get better unless you make these changes.
Sounds like you are on the right track. Hang in there!