Should I Get Getting My Son Help?

1. Have help you at the animal clinic.
2. Take him to classes at the zoo.
3. Have him talk to the animal police.

This behavior has to be stopped now.

Hi J.,

I am very sorry you and your family have had to go through something like this. I can understand your concern regarding your son's behavior and it sounds like you and your husband have taken the appropriate steps in providing consequences for his actions. Animal cruelty is a very serious behavior that can (in some cases) point towards long-term psychological issues and possible antisocial behavior later on. However, I would suggest that you take a step back and calmly consider what your son's behavior had been like until this incident. Was he hurtful to pets, peers, or even himself prior to this occurrence? How well do you know his friends...could they have initiated the "game" and encouraged his participation? Is your son often angry or dismissive of someone else's pain/feelings? Do you feel the behavior is completely uncharacteristic of him? Does your child watch a lot of television/play a lot of video games with overt and covert violence? If you find yourself saying that your son has evidenced high levels of inappropriate behavior/disregard for others in the past I would suggest getting him help, but if you feel he had no clear idea what he was doing and that it would hurt his pet, I would suggest separating him from these so called "friends" and taking active steps to help him better understand right and wrong. At four years of age children do not always understand the full consequences of their actions and may not comprehend that they have caused pain/suffering, he might simply think that he is re-enacting something he saw on TV. I hope this is helpful. I am sure many other people have already responded and given you good suggestions. Take care and hope things have improved already.

Hi J.. I am not going to give you any advice on what to do- I think you got plenty of it and I agree with most of it. All I wanted to say was that I have a good bit of respect for you and how you are handling this. It is not easy to find out your child did something you disapprove of, let alone are shocked about. You did though and you put this in your question,"I appreciate any feedback and won't be offended by harsh words." That's awesome- you are more concerned about your son than anything else. You are willing to hear things you don't want to hear and that probably will hurt your heart but you put it out there for everyone to help you even so. Yay for you! Sorry if this is dorky- I just don't think many parents put thier kids first- even if they think they do.

I would call around to some counselors and ask some questions on if you child should be seen. I would suggest yes, have your child seen, at least assessed. These aren't normal things that should be happening. The counselor may find that the child was only following the older children or something more. I think an assessment is a good idea so you'll know either way.

K. B
mom to 5 including triplets
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HarrisburgPAChat

I have to agree that your son should not be allowed to play with those kids again....ever. Especially if this is behavior he hasn't exhibited before. I think I would also talk to the other parents and see if this has every happened before with either child. Then you might want to take him to someone just to talk about what happened. Boys tend to be curious (like finding a dead mouse outside and poking it around with a stick) but I think this may have crossed that line. But I also think the younger two might not yet grasp the whole 'every action causes a reaction' and how serious this reaction may have been. I hope this all works out in the end. I will pray that you have guidance through this as it seems like a very stressful situation.

If it were my son in the situation I would have him talk with someone like a counseler or Pastor. Talking with another authority other than Mom and Dad could help him to realize that 1- It was wrong 2- Why it was wrong and 3- find out the motives of why this happened.It's one of those situations where you don't want to over react on one hand, but on the other hand, a living thing was hurt on purpose, and that is pretty serious. As a side note, not to be mean or anything, but where was his Father when this happened?

J.,
I can understand that you are upset and I would be too. I think it was a good suggestion to maybe get all of the three boys together with all of the parents there and have a frank, open discussion about what exactly happened (although from what you described there seems to be no doubt that none of this was good). I think it may have been a situation of O. kid's idea and the others silently going along with it. After you get all the facts you can (O. of them may confess) you can decide whether to pursue counseling. I don't think you really need to be reminded that people who grow up to be abusive often start by torturing/abusing animals. Try not to jump to conclusions though. This is the stuff they never tell you about having kids. So much is cope and learn as you go, huh? Tonight, O. of my son's "friends" kicked him in the forehead for no apparent reason. Sheesh. Anyway, good luck to you.

Dear J.,
Yes, you definitely need to take your son to a child psychologist and find out what's
going on. He also needs to realize a hamster is a living breathing thing. I would also be
concerned about his friends, especially the 7 year old. That child should not be any where
near your little boy ever again. 7 is old enough for sure to know that this behavior is very
wrong. Harming animals can be signs of much deeper problems inside an individual.
Good Luck and I hope everything goes well.
M.

I would try talking to your son by himself today after things have calmed down a bit. Try to get him to tell you the sequence of events - especially you want to figure out whose idea it was to do these things, but don't ask that directly at first or try to lead him to say that it was the other boys - see if he volunteers that on his own and you are more likely to get the truth. If it was their idea I'd personally say he shouldn't be playing with them ever again, not just for the weekend, but that's just my take. It might also depend on how the other mother is dealing with the incident. If it was his idea, I saw a few responses from other moms who said that he is young and may not have realized the conquences; I agree with that but only to a degree - just keep an eye on him especially in the yard with animals out there and with other pets he may encounter at others' homes. Wish I had more to offer... good luck!

Hi J.,
I have to say that what your son did was a bit harsh, however, like some other women have said, he may have been influenced by the other 2 boys and yes, I would speak w/their parents to see if they've had this type of behavior before and how about your son, has he showed this type of behavior before? If this is a first time occurrence, I certainly do not feel he needs to seek mental help, that's a little extreme, just have a talk w/him. Unfortunately, boys will be boys, especially at this age. I can remember when my brothers were young, they would go outside and look for bugs, worms, slugs, etc. just to put them into the microwave to see what would happen (gross-i know) but they turned out to be perfectly normal men, successful careers, loving family and children. Good luck with everything and I wish you, hubby and son the best!

after i just sent my original response, i read some more recent responses and i just want to say that i think some (not all) of the suggestions for psych treatment are a little extreme and the antisocial disorder thing, you're his mom, you and dad know him best and will know if there is something seriously wrong or not. again, good luck to you and your family!

I think you should try not to take this "personal" and step outside the situation.

Try to relax and calm yourself -- that's not to say that your son can skate in the meantime. For now, he stays in his room with limited privileges.

This gives you and your husband time to talk it over with each other and contact the other parents. What you all decide is between yourselves...

But, for your son, it never hurts to actually discuss the "isolated incident" with a counselor.

Not sure where you live, but utilizing the county's support services is a good avenue for this. There is an organization - Family Services - in Montgomery county. I have spoken to a counselor that works for this organization. Insurance can be used -- I know they take Independence Blue Cross, but not United Healthcare (United Behavioral Health) and they may take HealthNEt or Tricare. Anyways, my counselor said that if I was between insurance coverage or didn't have any the most she'd charge for a session was $60 outright. The county's services system goes by income. I'd recommend giving him a try at a session.

If you have already tried sitting down and talking to him about things like this and this happened I might want to consider some help at the very least, keep him away from his other two friends. There are plenty of children out there who play with their pets and do not harm them in any way. Being the fact the no one is telling you exactly what happened then I would get him to try and talk to someone. Whether it was his fault or just something that got out of control. Maybe he was too afraid to tell his other friends no or vice versa. Maybe he just needs someone more comfortable to talk with that won't judge him or ground him for telling the truth. Don't take that in a bad way but kids sometimes do not tell their parents things because they are afraid of what we are going to say but the truth is we love them anyway. That is what you need to maybe reassure him of too. Hope this helps and hope the hamster comes out of this.

Wow. How upsetting for you. I really commend you for reaching out.
I would do a preemptive strike and take your son to a psychologist to be evaluated. I can't make any recommendations because I haven't been able to talk to or observe your son's behavior and response to the incident. But I will tell you, and I'm so sorry if this is upsetting, but killing/torturing animals in childhood is symptomatic of Antisocial Personality Disorder. You can google that, or look in the Diagnostic ans Statistical Manual for Mental Disorders (DSM IV). Just to be sure, have him checked...and definitely do NOT let him near those boys EVER again...sounds like something DEFINITELY wrong there...they could be the budding sociopaths...again, I know this is shocking and harsh, but so was this behavior and it warrants professional attention.
Good luck.

Hey there,

I think it is great that you are taking this event so seriously. A lot of the recent nursing literature does suggest that violence toward animals can be an early indicator of later violence or anger control problems. The research also suggests that it is extremely important to deal with these issues before children are 7 years old; research shows that after 7 years of age it is much harder to address this behavior.

I'm certainly not suggesting that your son absolutely has anger or violence issues--it sounds like he's most likely a really kind child who got some bad ideas from friends--but I think if you can find a trained person you trust to talk to him, it would be a great preventative step. Do it now BEFORE there is a problem, because you won't have this same option later in his life.

I also think the most powerful thing you can do is what you are already doing--setting such a great example yourself with your work at the cat shelter. Could part of his punishment be to come with you one day to help out caring for the animals? Or make some posters to try to find a home for one of the cats? Seeing empathy modeled by you and the others who work there might be really good for him.

Good luck! I really feel for your son and for you (and for the little fur ball). I hope you all are feeling much much better soon.

I would get him help now. I don't mean this in a mean way but they say kids start out hurting animals before they start to hurt people or get into other forms of trouble. Good luck and I wish you the best.

Hi, I think your son was too young to realize what the consequences would be Three in a group often can start trouble and you will never get the exact truth out of it even if he blames the other kids. Moving forward you might want to take him to a pet store or animal shelter and let him handle other live animals that are larger than a hamster .you need to let him know they are all the same even though they are smaller.If you scare him so much he may become more of a problem.I think your punishment was perfect but you must someway put the trust factor back in to him so that he will grow up with the responsibility for animals.I have cats and from the time my son was a baby I watched and spoke about always being gentle.Sometimes we can forget to say that when a pet is in a cage.Remember boys are constantly getting into trouble.As long as there is love and attention in the family you need to give him another chance with pets when he is a little older .and you need to let him know that you will get a pet again when he is ready again.
If you think his friends are from a negligent families you might want to moniter there play more closely.I wouldnt take him for conseling unless you so strange behavior over the next couple of months.You should continue to have him around pets just make sure he gets positive reinforcement when he is gentle to them.Good luck and I hope the Hammy makes it.It brought a tear to my eye.
L.

As a case manager for kids with mental health diagnoses, I really don't feel that this isolated incident warrants taking him to a specialist and having him counseled, etc. I read some of the other posts that stated that animal cruelty is an idicator of anti-social personality disorder and sociopathic behaviors, yada yada yada. While this is true, this has to be coupled with fire setting, cruelty to little kids, peeing the bed, lack of empathy, and a loveless up bringing and multiple other signs (which is obviously not the case). What you are currently doing, punishment and explaining the consequences for harming another living being, etc. sounds appropriate. If he displays some of the other signs, then I would pursue help. Also, I somewhat support not letting him play with his friends, but would have it that he does not play with his friends unsupervised. That way you can observe the group and see if one of the other boys displays these traits. Most likely, it is just a case where three boys were left alone unsupervised for a bit too long. I have adult male friends that we try not to leave unsupervised for long periods of time (ha, ha). Work on teaching your son to listen to his inner voice that tells him behaviors are wrong and to not go with the 'mob mentality' which is what I suspect happened here.

Keep up the good work and your son will turn out super!

I would certainly mention this to his pediatrician and see she if he/she thinks this warrants further help. I have three boys of my own and expect a lot of shocking thngs to happen in our house! Maybe it was a sort of group mentality thing going on. I have noticed my almost six year old make horrible choices (especially when amongst his peers) just to se what would happen.
While I feel you should be very upset, I don't think beating yourself up will help. I sincerely hope you don't receive any harsh words. You certainy don't dererve them!I

It is definitely shocking that your son would participate in something so cruel to that hamster. I don't think you need to take him to see a therapist, but I do believe that you should continue to talk to him about his behavior with this animal. Maybe if you continually talk to him about this, he might eventually tell you why he did this. If you haven't done so already, I think you should talk to the parents of the other boys that were there. They need to know what happened as well. I think that you son needs to be away from those kids for more than just this weekend. Those boys are a bad influence on him and they need to stay away for a longer time.

I hope this helps you and good luck.

This is a first offense in a specific situation. You can't know the exact broad causes. You do know he is raised to love animals, and always has in the past. I'm sure he was influenced by the older boys.
No matter what the causes, try to remove the extreme emotionality and treat is as a clear situation. Make sure there is a very definite and strong "punishment" or consequence for this-something a little worse than not seeing the boys for the weekend. If you have strong consequences for other things he does, don't go light on this due to the sensitive nature, or he'll see it as a way to garner attention. If you feel it's too late to crack down harshly, definitely do what you said with him doing something with animals and clarifying how they need to be treated no matter what. Think of a major activity to do together with helping animals, and read some animal books and have talks at night for a while.
Definitely talk this through thoroughly with all the parents of the other two kids. If you sense anything amiss with their take on this-like they think it's no big deal etc, he should NEVER be allowed to play with those kids. Especially since the older child was probably the leader. If the parents are extremely sorry, have implemented discipline, and assured you that the kids understand this was wrong, maybe give them another chance down the road, after at least a week, but beware.
Definitely keep an eye on him going forward for remorse and understanding of animals, but on a first offense where he was influenced by older kids, I would wait on the outside help. Hauling him off to a doctor for sympathetic questioning and treating him as if something may be wrong with him may create more problems -again because of the attention. Wait until he shows a pattern, and is not comprehending strong guidelines you have set and multiple punishments and still is mean to animals (I'm sure this won;t happen) before you do that-he's very young. Unfortunately these things happen. He may suffer his remorse later when this has died down. Use your heart-great job being so concerned. Sorry this happened.

Hi J.. My first instinct is to tell you to NEVER let your son play with those two boys again. Someone instagated this "play" and you may never truly find out who. The child that did does need help ASAP. At the very least the three boys should never be allowed to play together without a parent IN THE ROOM that is WATCHING what they are doing. This could be a case of "stupid choices" or the beginings of something far more serious as you are obviously aware. Good luck with this....I wish I had more to offer. Best wishes.

I would definitely talk to someone that can help you all professionally. I think the important thing here is to find out reason it was done. My husband did alot of "stupid" things when he was a boy and he has told me that he never had a reason "why", it was just something he did, either experiemental, fun, etc. Alot of times, boys don't really think about what they are doing and the results that may come. If you do find out there was a reason to be hurting the animal, then you should get help for your son. That type of behavior would need to be stopped so something worse doesn't happen later on.

My first thought would be to call or visit the other children's parents and find out what they know about the incident. Obviously the boys will point fingers at one another but you may get some more valuable information.

My second thought was that I would be seriously concerned about your son playing with these boys in the future period....let alone this weekend.

Maybe tomorrow morning you and your husband can sit down and talk to your son about what happened again..and why he did it or supported his friends doing it. Depending on his answers, I would consider the counseling route.

I wish you much luck, I hope your weekend gets better.

Hi J.,

Did your son seem remorseful when you corrected him? I know he's young, but if he didn't seem to respond to correction and punishment then you may want to seek some guidance. I agree with some of the other women. I think your son was probably influenced by the other children. You have to remember that with adults, a 2-2 1/2 year difference obviously isn't that big of a deal, but with children, it's a huge difference. I think that a 4 year old "hanging out" with a 7 year old is a bit inappropriate. I work in a day care with different age groups and I have noticed how the behavior of some of the younger children is affected when the older kids are around (and the difference in age can be as little as less than 1 year). 1 - 16 are very impressionable years. Unless this 7 year old is a family member, I think that play time should be very limited and most definitely supervised.

I hope you have found comfort in the responses you have received. All you can do is learn from this experience to better help your child in the future.

God bless you & your family!
J.

Dear J..

Please get your son evaluated by a professional. It could have been a peer pressure thing or that he is too young to understand that his actions hurt another creature but if he does not get evaluated/helped it will get worse. My son has killed 3 animals and unfortunately it is a precursor for hurting people. I bet your son is fine...just a little evaluation might be in line. Just watch him with animals and don't have pets that are smaller than him until you think he is okay. Good luck to you and take care, A.

J., I have to ask this question... Has your son experienced death in his life before? The reason I ask is that until he really experiences losing someone or something precious to him, he really won't have an understanding of the concept even then it sometimes doesn't take hold. I think your son is young enough that he probably didn't realize he was causing permanent harm. Especially in a world where things like this happen in cartoons with no real hurt or damage to the characters (for example look at the violence that occurs on Spongebob Squarepants). I don't think you need to take your son to see someone at this point unless you are unable to really talk to him yourself because of your own emotions. I suggest instead you sit down and have a heart to heart with your son. Talk to him about the pain he caused his pet and the pain of losing someone or something. Another idea is to take him to the cat shelter where you volunteer and tell him some of the horrible things people have done to the cats there or cats that have been through there. Tell him about the laws against cruelty to animals and the consequences both to the animals and to the people involved. Guide him back to being your loving little boy with his pets by sharing with him the harsh reality of what his actions can and have done. If you find that isn't enough, he is totally unresponsive to you or you are unable to talk to him about it, then I would contact his pediatrician for guidance as to how to talk to him or if you should take him to someone else (and if so for a referral).

Good luck with your little guy. He is still that little boy you love, he just needs a reality check with a little guidance from you.

Jen, I am wondering if these children did not influence your son on this. Is your son remorseful? Boys are a little immature by nature and maybe he was following his friends. If he is showing remorse it would seem he knows how wrong he was, if he isn't maybe seeking help wouldn't be a bad idea. I hope the hamster is ok. And I hope the best for your child. Please let us know how the animal does.

If this really doesn't sound like your son, I would think that having the three boys together got the idea going. Even really good kids will be questionable things if a "buddy" suggest it and someone else seconds the idea. I would try to figure out whose idea it really was, and if that fails go more than one weekend without these particular friends.

when my daughter ws 5 her and her friends were giving the hampster a bath and killed it..i was so upset but i think they didnt understand the cons.of it all..i was more upset that they had enough time to do with out supervision at her friends house with no adults supervising or stepping.i am sure he will feel very bad about it and i feel after 1 time i would just keep an eye out.i was sick over it but nothing like that ever happened again..peer pressure even at that age is great!

First, I am so sorry that this happened. I would be sick over it too. We have two dogs and my son is also four and we are constantly talking about the treatment of animals, how to be safe around animals.

Did you talk to the other parents? It may be possible that one of these children planted the idea for your son, that this would be funny. Perhaps, the other kids don't have animals and don't know how to be gentle.

Also, does your child watch violent TV, violent cartoons or play video games that are violent? I think many of today's programs / games depict violence in a funny way.

Did you set up ground rules for the proper treatment of the hamster prior to buying it, and were those rules reviewed from time to time...as well as a punishment for violating those rules? I always believe that if a child knows what to expect and what the rules are up front, they are less likely to break them.

I would call his pediatrician and ask her advice, and if she believes psychological counseling is valid...it may sound extreme, but what if the older kids in this group continue to kid around about what they did to this poor hamster? The other parents have to be on board and really drive this home that this was not good.

Again, I hope my questions don't sound like I'm berating you...You are a great Mom for being so concerned...I'm just thinking what my internal questions would be.

I will pray for you and this situation...I hope everything works out okay.

I agree with the other moms that you should get the boys together for a talk. Maybe you can find out whose idea it was and if the others were just following along. This doesn't sound like an "oops I accidentally hurt/killed my hamster" kind of thing, it sounds as if those boys were torturing it. It might be a good idea to talk to a counselor or definitely keep an eye on this in the future...keeping in mind that the next incident may not happen until he's 10 or 12 yrs old.

I think you need to seriously consider not allowing your son to play with these boys anymore. Someone in that group came up with the idea and although the followers are just as guilty the child that came up with it is most likely the one that needs the counseling. They are acting out aggressively for some reason. Also, where was the adult in this situation? Was your husband watching the boys? It seems like they were left alone for an awful long time...I would consider having a talk with your husband or whoever was in charge about more supervision at that age.

Your son should not be allowed to have a pet for a very long time especially in his room. It might not hurt for you to talk with a counselor with him to learn how to deal with this, what to look for in the future, etc. It's probably an isolated incident, more than likely caused by peer pressure but you are right not to just sweep it under the rug and say "boys will be boys." I hope it all works out.

I can understand why you are so upset. First, I would speak to the other boys' parents and let them know what happened (if you haven't done that already.)
I would seek the advice of your pediatrician. He or she can direct you to a therapist or give you an appropriate form of discipline.
Best of luck to you,
L.

This must be so upsetting to you, esp. as that you volunteer with animals. I guess only you can know if this was a freak incident or if you see signs that he needs intervention. Obviously cruelty to animals is a major warning sign of several mental disorders, but (and I don't say this lightly) this may have been simply an (unacceptable) case of boys being boys. Certainly taking him to see a child psychologist may be the safest thing to do-- she/he can help you decide if this is a harbinger of greater problems.

It may also be that these two other boys are too old for your son to be playing with. Were these boys unsupervised? That is clearly a problem if they were.

I hope this all works out.

J., This must be very upsetting to you! From what I've read and learned, any kind of cruelty to animals is a red flag that should be investigated. It can't hurt to talk to a therapist with your son. It sounds like the 2 friends may be a bad influence. Your son isn't too young to be peer pressured and now would be a great time to deal with it. If you are in the Cherry Hill area, I have some therapist recommendations if you'd like to email me ____@____.com luck! xoxo, S.

Conversation with my son shows he agrees. Your son feels bad, it's too bad it went on like that, he should have another hamster immediately. You should buy him a new hamster. I think you'll be suprized at how much good it will do. Don't mention it again. You could really hurt him.

I'm an animal rights activist, vegetarian and a child advocate. I also know what happens to kids (the younger the worse) when something negative about themselves is drilled into them.

Wishing you peace and clarity,
S.

I would like to say that kids will be kids but I think you might want to have your son see someone. It's the better safe then sorry method. You know your son best but a mother instinct is almost always right. He might need to talk to someone or maybe a professional might see something you or he wouldn't. Best of luck to you and your son...and hamster.