So, another marriage is eating the dust. A good friend is interviewing attorneys after exhausting alll avenues of repairing her marriage of 15 years. Husband is cheating, has alienated the marriage. When she spoke with him about her intentions, the first thing he said was I don't think it's fair you are entitled to half my retirement plan.
Today, she met with another atty, an aggressive one who told her to think about the aftermath of trying to make ends meet, living expenses in the long run.
She told me her husband made her feel guilty and greedy and she is now thinking about just forgetting the retirement fund, and focus on alimony and equity in the home.
My personal feelings in the words of Suze Orman: Me first!
Should she feel guilty? What would you do?
Thanks for chiming in. UPDATE: They have been married 18 years,
She went to an attorney who broke it all down for her in terms of her financial future needs, not just living in the present and she was given alimony figures, options where their assets are concerned, and they have a child in college so child support will be an issue.
She works on and off, was home most years raising their child. She managed the house, etc, which is why she hasn't accumulated a nest egg in value of close to his because of keeping the home in tact. That "good wife" business, yeah, I tried it too.
She mentioned to him that she is going to move forward with the divorce and told him she hopes they are civil in the process
Her attorney told her legally on paper and the years married THE ONLY FIGHT THEY WILL HAVE IS THE ONE HE CREATES fighting against assets.
BLAMESHIFT much?
SHE paid into that plan for 15 years. 15 years worth of money that COULD have been used for other things went instead into THEIR retirement. Not 'his' retirement. Their retirement.
Half is only fair.
Hell no she shouldn't feel guilty! He cheated, right? Not her! His continued selfishness is astounding!
She should NOT feel guilty about his retirement fund!! She was his wife, helpmate and Mother of his children and keeper of the home for 15 years!!! She is not only entitled to it, but deserves it.
She was part of a partnership that when it is dissolved, splits into almost 2 equal halves. She should fight for her half and a fair alimony.
I think she should get whatever she is entitled to. Why should she feel guilty? She wasn't the O. stepping outside of the marriage vows. She needs to be SMART right now and do what's best for her future.
If my husband cheated on me and didnt have the Balls to tell me that he wasnt happy in our marriage I would suck him dry. I dont think there is ANY excuse to cheat on your spouse - enough said
He is the one who broke their maritial agreement. She shouldn't feel guilty about ANYTHING. Hit him where it hurts---in the wallet and make him pay up!
Oh she is soooo entitled to that!!! When you say "I do" that's what you get. He still needs to take care of her financially. He messed up, he cheated, he gets to pay for it. She would receive that money if they stayed together, so cheating on her wasn't punishment enough? Now she should lose an income too? She should feel guilty for nothing! I know it take two to tango and clearly her husband wasn't happy, but cheating was not the answer. He should have talked to her before he went outside of the marriage. He crossed lines and your friend doesn't deserve to be hurt and lose her income on top of the pain he has inflicted. She was with him for 15 years and is entitled to that money - with no guilt. Oh, and exactly how much equity will she have in the house? The economy is so bad. She should take every penny her attorney can get for her. Sounds like an aggressive attorney is exactly what she needs to stay strong. Good luck to your friend....
I'm pretty sure he should be the one feeling guilty. Correct me if I'm wrong here...
All I know is if my husband ever cheated on me I would try my hardest and do everything in my power to hang him out to dry (by his man parts.)
All those years they were married, that retirement was THEIRS. For THEM. For THEIR future. It's still THEIRS. So yes, she is entitled to half.
All his earnings the past years were shared by them, right? So what about the part of those earnings during the past years that went into the retirement fund? All those years there were other things they could have decided to do with that money other than put it into retirment. So ostensibly it was a joint decision for the good of the couple how much of his earnings to put into the retirement. It is part hers. No guilt.
Does any married person out there think that their retirement fund is going to solely be for their personal use one day? Um no. We are all saving up so we can use it for the good of our family. Apparently that all changes when you get divorced? Sad. Please talk some sense into her.
Her husband cheated and she feels guilty?
He doesn't think it's fair that she gets half of the marriage money? (i.e. his retirement fund) Poor baby. Maybe he should've thought of that before his let his Johnson roam free.
Sorry, the only one being selfish in this scenario is her husband. He did the dance. Now it's time to pay the piper.
As Dr. Phil likes to say, "You choose the behavior, you choose the consequences." Sucks to be him right now.
Best of luck to your friend.
No she shouldnt. Not one bit. Really, does HE feel guilty about cheating on her, and pretty much ruining their 15 year marriage? I bet not! So why should she?
She didnt do anything wrong, her wanting to make sure she is taken care of isnt wrong, it isnt greedy, it just is what it is. She is being smart, and needs to focus on herself and any children involved.
I guess I am more spiteful than she is, cause in the end I WOULD get half of everything, JUST because he told me I couldnt and doesnt think I deserve it, after all the pain and hurt that he has caused her, and for the fact that he still doesnt give a damn. What a creep.
Tell her to not give up, keep her head high, and do what she needs to.
I wouldnt feel guilty for one second.
If he didn't want her to have half his retirement plan then he should have kept it in his pants.
Hello, Of course the husband would make her feel guilty. He is a selfish person. He has proven this by cheating on her. She has worked on their marriage for 15 years, therefore, she is owed half of his retirement. I am sure that she cooked, cleaned and raised their children.
K. K.
Oh pish.
My ex husband tried to make me feel guilty over every little thing.
Let me tell you something, she needs to take the retirement and whatever else is tangible because there is absolutely no guarantee she will see alimony. My husband was to deduct half the house payment from my alimony and make the house payments. He didn't give me a penny of alimony, he didn't make the house payments and forced the house into foreclosure because he said there was no way I was going to live in that house without him.
I put $20,000 of my own money into improvements and he got us in such a hole that all I got out of the sale of our home was less than $10,000.
That didn't last long for a woman with two little kids who had to find another place to live, etc.
Your friend needs to be smart about this.
Everytime he tries to make her feel guilty, she needs to remember that he's the one who cheated. Let the guilt be where it belongs.
Just my opinion.
I think guilty is pretty much the "default setting" for women. Most of us feel guilty most of the time even when we shouldn't and she should NOT feel guilty. He might feel entitled to that money because it's in his name, but here in the real world where the rest of us live that money was part of THEIR retirement plan and should be spliut just like all the rest of the stuff that was THEIRs
guilt implies she did something wrong. What is she doing wrong? if by taking her legally entitled assests from him would put him at the poverty level then it may be wrong. But NOT taking the money and putting herself in financial hardship would be wrong as well. THAT she should feel guilty for. DO they have kids? if yes, she needs to think about them too. From what I can tell by the post. HE ruined the marriage and HE feels guilty so HE is trying to pass his GUILT onto HER so HE does not feel as BAD. THAT is WRONG.
Nope, no guilt.
In fact, I'd tell her to tartly tell him that the cost of his cheating is half his retirement...and then ask him if it was worth it! The only person who is being greedy and guilty is the cheating husband.
The attorney is right to have her think of the future.
Hugs to your friend.
NO! Dont feel guilty. It is HARD to be a single parent and the income (including pension and retirement) are earned during the marriage and due to the sacrafice of BOTH parties (if she stayed home, it allowed him to work etc.). She deserves her fair share. Fight on!
She needs to stop feeling guilty.
She didn't break the vows - he did.
HE doesn't think it's FAIR she entitled to half his retirement?
She earned it as much as he did, if not more.
She's ENTITLED to it for a reason.
She needs to get mad and take him for every cent she can get out of him.
He cheats and breaks his family apart and SHE'S the greedy one? Mularky. She is entitled to half in my opinion, including future revenue.
I am not a proponent of divorce.
If things are at the point where she feels she has no chance of reconciliation, and she does divorce him, then why would she NOT thing it's right to ask for half of the wealth they accumulated during the marriage? That is what it is..... unless he had a HUGE amount already there before they married... And why should she feel greedy or guilty when he has been CHEATING? She needs to check that guilt at the door and acquire half of the marital assets in the split... and that includes retirement. That retirement is accumulated DURING the course of the marriage... it doesn't suddenly appear when he retires. He's been paying into it all along, and/or some of his compensation for his work has been going into it directly from the company instead of into his salary. It's called a "benefit" and she is entitled to a portion as she would have been a beneficiary of it had the marriage remained intact.
He should have thought about the financial repercussions to his precious retirement fund when he was having fun playing around..., no?
She sounds depressed and beaten down emotionally. You are a GREAT friend because you are RIGHT..Me first!!! Maybe a few sessions with a great life coach or therapist to iron out some disappointment and guilt before making a life long decision that could financially "piss her off" later on...she deserves what is right and the law will give her what is fair so the easy road may look nice for now as she is just wanting to get this over with and not argue any further but when she is away from the marriage she will wish she had fought..or maybe not, but nonetheless, it's worth slowing down and making sure..
The best for your friends future,
:)
As a SAHM I would say that the retirement savings are half mine... even though I'm not contributing to them monetarily, I am expecting to get to share them when the time comes.
J.
No she shouldn't at all!! If she's concerned for him and his retirement, then she shouldn't divorce him. But in her situation, she should divorce him which means her concern for poor him with only half the retirement should go out the window. He obviously isn't worried about her well being nor did he do anything to try to take care of her while she was married to him. She needs to shove her feelings of concern for his retirement out the window and start thinking about her own needs.
She has earned the retirement fund as much as he has up to this point.
In my opinion she is entitled to half the money invested plus earnings or less losses during their marriage. The only part in question would be the balance he had at the marriage date. If they were married less than 10 years she may not have a right to half of that. Any money he earned while they were married she has an interest in. She's already getting shafted so she should go for the most she is entitled to because she will ultimately get less than she bargained for anyway. When she starts to feel guilty about seeking what is hers let her imagine the "other" woman living her life in comfort while she struggles to make it.
Definitely she is entitled to the retirement! Well...does she have her own retirement plan? Was she a SAHM? If she was working and making good money and had her own retirement, then I see that it wouldn't make sense for her to go after any of his. But if she has none, she really, really deserves to have part of it. She is not being greedy. What an awful situation.
OH HHHEEELLLLLLL NNNOOOOO!!! the first year after my divorce I felt sorry for the poor bastard and didnt make him pay ANYTHING. But then it dawned on me that why is he out having fun and Im struggling to take care of OUR kids???? So I took him to court and sued him for child support AND had to MAKE him take the kids every other weekend and holiday just so they could know him. So no, men LOVE to play the guilty card and we love to feel sorry for them. SHE WILL REGRET IT! Make sure she gets a bull dog attorney that goes after everything she needs. And make sure the parenting plan is VERY detailed with times for pick up, drop off and that "recieving parent" is to pick up child at other parents house, etc. It is VERY difficult if not impossible sometimes to change the court order once its in place. I have TONS of free advice I could give her. She needs to do it for her kids. Good luck!!!
She needs to get her due prorated amount from the retirement plan.
She shouldn't feel guilty! If my husband decided to do that to me (cheat and ultimately end marriage) then yes I'd be going for half his retirement, alimony/child support- etc, especially since he wanted me to stay home and he worked...so this time now staying home with our son I'm not paying into it..
she shouldn't let him change her mind-- she deserves half everything-- even the retirement!!
Have her keep focused that he is only thinking of himself and will. No matter how much or how little she "gets" he will think she is screwing him. No matter how nice she is, he will think he is wronged. It's hard for some to be perceived as mean, not necessarily really mean, but the perception of others. She needs to do what is right for her! I was divorced after only 4 years and didn't feel like his retirement was necessary. She has been married for 15 years! He was supposed to support her for the rest of her life. That's what marriage is. Even though it is over, he will need to continue to provide support. That's what he signed up for...forever. He will do everything in his power to manipulate her.
Another piece of advice I was given when I went through my divorce is to take the emotion out of it. It's business now, not feelings (as much as possible).
Good luck to you and your friend!
Nope. I wouldn't. I hope she gets all that she's entitled too and more :)
Pppfffttt !!!
No!
I personally don't agree with taking retirement, unless they decided together that she would not work (and there for have no chance to save one of her own). If she has stayed at home and cared for him, the house, and the children, and was thus given no chance to build her own retirement, she is certainly entitled to half of his, and should go for it. If she has her own retirement plan through her job, than she should leave him to his. JMO.
but she needs to banish this guilt feeling either way, he is the only guilty party here.
I am going on the assumption she has kids? I had no guilt taking half of everything including his 401k, after all I will make sure it is used to support my kids. My ex loves his money more than his kids so.....
In the end I got the house, he got most of his 401k so if she doesn't go for the retirement money she can kiss getting all the equity in the house goodbye.
should she feel guilty, NO WAY!!!! however, IMO, once you are divorced the husband should not have to continue to support his ex spouse. child support of course but not alimony or retirement etc. If they had joint banking accounts, investments etc then yes, if they are shared. I think it is ridiculous to expect an ex-spouse to pay money every month, it is greedy to me. regardless of the fact that her soon to be ex cheated. She should get the house but other than that and child support she should not expect anything else. maybe since he cheated he should have to pay her attorney fee's.
did he feel guilty cheating on her? after he screwed around did he come home & confess to her & beg her for forgiveness? Did he make an appointment for marriage counseling?
Did she take care of him for 15 years? Did she take care of their children? Did she take care of their home?
Obviously there is a lot of bigger questions, but she needs to think about the future. If she put 15 years in, so does he.
In order to make that determination we would need all the facts, does she work, does she have any type her own retirement, etc.
Overall I would say, no she shouldn't feel guilty. She should receive 50% of the marital assets. She needs to look at the entire picture, what's more important to her - sell the house and split the profits, or stay in the house and forget the retirement?
Before making any financial decisions in a divorce, please consider contacting a CFP (certified financial planner) to assist you in making a sound and fair settlement. A CFP will be able to tell you if the plans you are making are viable. The CFP should charge you a flat hourly fee for his input. If you need a list of some in your area, you can contact me privately and I can get you a list.
Uggggh! He cheated on her. How FAIR was that???? I say tell her to go after whatever she can get. No holds barred once a spouse does something that horrible to the other.
Of course she shouldn't feel guilty! I think that home equity and retirement savings are marital assets and fair game. I think that alimony should only be transitional though, until she gets a job or increases her earning to a point where she can support herself. There is no need for spouses to be support each other above and beyond child support after they split.
