Seeking Discipline Advice

You've probably noticed my similar request. Some days are soooo difficult, aren't they? The biggest thing that I've taken from the replies that I've received here is to have whatever system that you use reward positive behavior as opposed to focussing on negative behavior. ie: instead of taking something away for not doing as told, give something for doing as told. I plan on disciplining the bad behavior with timeouts and discussions and rewarding the behaviors that I want to see.

well, my kids are still little (2 and 7 wks) but my sister takes away the toys/priveledges that are important to them.. the other day when her 4 yr old did something dangerous, she took her dolls beds and clothes and put them in a bag to sit in her closet for 3 days.. that sort of thing. find her weakness, what she WANTS to play with, and put the toy in time out, as opposed to the child in time out.. who knows really tho? they're tough, arent they? good luck :/

Welcome to another of those 'delightful' stages kids go through. She is asserting her independence and learning the art of the debate. When she argues try to sit down with her and discuss it. If the argument is about something unimportant, let her convince you in a calm manner that her idea is ok. For instance wearing shorts when you think its too cold. Let her wear the shorts and she may or may not be cold, but if she's cold its her decision. This way she learns that her opinion counts, but she has to discuss, not argue.
When she becomes defiant, warn her immediately that whatever she wants she absolutely will not get with that tone of voice. Get rid of the strikes,(they arent working)and refuse to talk to her when she is defiant. If she refuses to do something that needs immediate attention, like getting in the car, pick her protesting self up and deposit her like a baby wherever you want her, without saying a word other than the initial warning.
The old adage "it takes 2 to argue" is very true.
Oh and good luck, this will pass, just as the terrible two's did, but be prepared for the next stage. LOL want a hint? At eight you suddenly know nothing, understand nothing and she will probably get all weepy, because you dont understand.

Try positive reinforcement practices instead of your present method. It seems to me that picking those cards may not be bringing about desired behaviors. I would try finding reinforcers that will motivate your child to repeat "good" behaviors. Keep in mind that satiation occurs quickly and they need to be changed often.

I found this information on the site below. It explains different types of behavior modification plans you may want to consider.

http://allpsych.com/psychology101/reinforcement.html

There are four types of reinforcement: positive, negative, punishment, and extinction. We’ll discuss each of these and give examples.

Positive Reinforcement. The examples above describe what is referred to as positive reinforcement. Think of it as adding something in order to increase a response. For example, adding a treat will increase the response of sitting; adding praise will increase the chances of your child cleaning his or her room. The most common types of positive reinforcement or praise and rewards, and most of us have experienced this as both the giver and receiver.

Negative Reinforcement. Think of negative reinforcement as taking something negative away in order to increase a response. Imagine a teenager who is nagged by his mother to take out the garbage week after week. After complaining to his friends about the nagging, he finally one day performs the task and to his amazement, the nagging stops. The elimination of this negative stimulus is reinforcing and will likely increase the chances that he will take out the garbage next week.

Punishment. Punishment refers to adding something aversive in order to decrease a behavior. The most common example of this is disciplining (e.g. spanking) a child for misbehaving. The reason we do this is because the child begins to associate being punished with the negative behavior. The punishment is not liked and therefore to avoid it, he or she will stop behaving in that manner.

Extinction. When you remove something in order to decrease a behavior, this is called extinction. You are taking something away so that a response is decreased.

Hi C.,

I have really been exploring the Positive Discipline concept, in caps because it is the name of a set of books.

http://www.positivediscipline.com/

The idea is to focus on solutions rather than to punish, and to engage the child in finding the solutions. I heard a saying somewhere, "The owner of the problem is the best person to solve the problem" (something like that). It is not meant to be about blame at all, but rather about giving a child problem solving skills in a loving respectful way that helps them build self confidence. It takes a bunch a reading and thinking and some practice to really understand and implement, but it's really about what you want to to give your child in the long run.

The hardest part, though is not loosing your temper! I'm not very religious, but I really just love your expression, "God's grace". It's hard to always walk away when a bit of yelling feels so good (for a moment, that is, followed by the very unpleasant feelings of guilt/shame etc). The quiet mind is so hard to achieve. I wish you patience!

C.

She takes things literally and doesn't understand and sometimes is defiant you say... Get her to calm down and have her sit next to you...and talk it over with her....ask her what's is wrong, why she's upset, what she doesn't understand, why she feels she needs to be defiant, what's going on, what's so important about her insistence. She's 7 years old and needs to express herself and needs to know that her feelings are important and that she's being heard...that she matters.
Communiating carmly this way with her will teach her many things about communicating...patience, compassion, trust, that it's ok to ask questions, how to listen, how to express herself carmly, developing her thinking process, how to work out problems, compromising, confidence, and she will also learn she can turn to you to share her feelings with. Really listen to what she is saying and try to work on the problems with her at hand from there with great respect to her feelings...

I'm not saying to give into her if something she's doing or wants is wrong or impossible...even if at the end of the talk you need to say no, and she has to walk away an unhappy camper, at least then she will have learned and gained so much from you in terms of the communication and her relationship with you.

Hi C.
I pray that God gives you that grace you need to know exactly what your daughter needs. Mostly she needs love, and prayer. Battles are not won on the battle field but in the prayer closet. Sounds to me as if she is learning to assert her independence. Why not just show her how to be the independent young lady you want her to be.
Perhaps you don't think she is old enough, but she is doing well elsewhere and with others that don't mother her, which shows her independence.
Perhaps she thinks she is and is rebelling. Why not talk about the things you are willing to let her be independent about. In the past when I said this to moms, they said they still help them dress, picking out their clothes and tying their shoes, etc. Or never let them choose when they could do their homework.
How does she handle the little things? Then give her the bigger things.
Oh, by the way, I am not a fan of the 3 strikes, because that gives them the opportunity to argue with you and get away with it. They learn arguing works and do it more. Not all kids but some. Looks to me like you might have one of those. Is that possible?
God bless you as you make some decisions
K. === SAHM married 38 years -- adult children 38,coach; 33, lawyer, married with 1 yo; and twins 19, in college after homeschooling; one, fine arts major, on campus, with 3.8 GPA, the other, journalism major, commuting, with a 3.7 GPA.

Hey C.,

One thing I have learned after raising a 24 and 20 year old is to pick your battles and when you do always make sure you win. First' would get rid of the three strikes it isn't working anymore. Really think about what you are arguing about and talk about your expectations when things are calm. Is it possible that what you are asking is to much? If she is anything like my son she has to learn the hard way and on her own. So I stopped arguing. Last year he and my husband were going to a Giants game and all he was wearing was a hooded sweatshirt over a thermal. I said aren't you going to be cold. He said "I'll be fine mom!!" Needless to say my husband said he froze his you know what off!!! But he just wasn't going to listen (he was 23 LOL!!) I think you really need to stick to what you and your hubby think are important and the other things just may not be worth it. When she starts to mouth off do not answer her just like a two year old having a temper tantrum IGNORE IT! Drives them crazy. If she is really disrespectful then you need to have one consequence that you know she will not want and stick to it. By talking when you are calm you may be able to get your point across and avoid future arguments. She is just testing the waters. Wait till the teenage years, that's a whole different breed. Good luck!!

I say the positive route...I use a chart with all my boys(it's on the inside of the pantry)I fill in what each one is responsible for...from making their bed/feeding dog/packing lunches/brushing teeth/cleaning room etc...then I assigned a point value to each one (like 5 pts for bed making and teeth, 10 for homework/chores)then it's up to them....I fill in a big zero when they don't do the item, but there is no drama...these kids are racing to get all the points possible...then at the end of the week they "cash them in" for us this means 1pt ='s 1 penny or 1 minute on the computer...they choose and they can split it, but there's a max of 15 minutes/day of computer time so if they earn all their points they're getting some $$$. This worked wonders with my 4 boys who are 9,8,7 and 5...I also once the chart was no longer needed(we used it for about 6 months)changed their allowance I give them each their set amount and 2 extra dollars...the 2 extra dollars is for them to buy lunch at school once a week(a treat in our house)but if they choose not to buy lunch they can keep the money...this works for 2 reasons...one gives them the power to control something and two it's helping them learn how to save their $$...sometimes they use it, some weeks they'll buy lunch 2 times, some times none...but the amount I give them doesn't change and they're learning how to manage their $$....I hope I was helpful...good luck!!!

How about altering the cards? If you stop using the cards altogether she might think she is getting over on you. If you take a "punishment fits the crime" approach then how about make another set of cards with 2 privileges per card or 1 privilege plus an extra chore. Once she realizes the punishment is getting tougher (and Mom is being tougher)when she starts to act up you can warn her that she is heading told the 1 privilege set of cards but if she continues her behavior you will use the second set of cards.

Also when you warn her, you might also encourage her that she can pick a spot to "cool down" and avoid the cards. Maybe a small table where she can sit and scribble or color for a few minutes.

I wouldn't let her choose her punishment, even if she doesn't know what she will be losing. You're still giving her control! If she is defiant or argues, I wouldn't give her the option, just walk away. Or you can try what my husband did when our daughter was about that age and tried something like that - it was about 2pm and he made her put on her pajamas, pull down the shades and go to bed for the rest of the day. That's a punishment that didn't need to be used twice.

C.,

Discipline is explaining and teaching. Punishment is removal of privileges and other punitive actions.

I am working on my son's attitude - and he's only 22.5 months! I am explaining that Mom & Dad don't need to be addressed in a tone of voice that I wouldn't accept from anyone else. Each and every time. Many times an hour sometimes. He gets it - he just gets reinforced in the other direction when DH just allows it. It sounds like you and your husband are on the same page, and that's AWESOME.

Talk to her. When she's not upset. When she's not angry. Start a game of something easy that she enjoys. Talk about the behaviors then. Use terms she will understand. 'Mom & Dad need you to understand what what we are talking about when we say _______.' Ask her to give information back to you. Ask her why she is doing x, y or z. Accept her information even if you don't accept her reasons. Help her straighten out her reasons.

It Won't happen over night. It likely won't happen over a month or more. But if you make it a policy, you'll have a much easier time than just punishing her when it happens. Anger breeds more anger, and that is not conducive to remembering anything that will change a habit - which it sounds like she has.

good luck,
M.

Hi C., You are not alone. Many 7 year olds go through something like the terrilble two's. She is exercising her independence. Your 3 card system sounds good. Keep it up. Although we want our children to grow up and be independant they still need to know who is the parent and who is the child. Also I think girls go through this with their moms... why? I do not know. Be happy she is good with others and in school. This stage will pass. Where ever you can let her get her way, do so. Otherwise stay strong. It will not get any better when she is a teenager. I will pray for Gods Grace for you. I raised 5 and the Lord was right beside me all the way. Grandma Mary

i also have a seven year old but she is the opposite of yours.i have the same problem with my soon to be five year old,my husband is gone a year at a time (military) so i'm the only parent at times, but you have backup use it i'm sure your husband has his own ideas dicuss it and trust that it works.