Seeking a Bar Mitzvah Mom for Advice...

By ALLmeans teach this family some manners but do so without makinking an ememy you will still be working with her at shull Good luck A.

Hello,

I am Jewish and have attended many Bar Mitzvah's. Point blank, this was very rude and inappropiate behavior (on the Mom's part). Place setting's at a children's table? A polite comment should do the trick and if she take's offense then you know where her child gets it from.

Wow, your son must have felt awful! That kid is a gross, ill mannered brat!

What's your goal in telling the mom? What do you think will come out of it? I'm sure that other mom knew what the seating arrangments were and was OK with it. You might chat with the Rabbi about it and see if he has any suggestions,but I would be less concerned about the other kid/family and use this as a teaching moment for your child. This is a GREAT way to discuss how it feels to exclude someone, you can extend it from there to excluding groups in society etc. A GREAT way to discuss social graces etc. I would make extra sure to validate youor son's feeling etc.

That boy/family is/are not friends, and I would make sure to impress that on your son. Good luck.

Hey M.,
I am not a Bar Mitzvah Mom, but I do have some thoughts if you don't mind. :) When a child becomes 13 he doesn't feel like a "kid" anymore, so he probably didn't think of his table as a "Kids" table. When you are 13, there is a big difference between 13 and 10 years of age. I have been a youth group leader and sunday school teacher for many years. While the other child's manners were horrible, your son may have para-phrased his response a little bit, sometimes this happens. I think I would ask the mom next time I saw her what the protocol for seating a younger child would be, and let her know respectfully that her son explained to your son that he hadn't wanted to invite your son, and that perhaps there would be fewer hurt feelings if everybody knew ahead of time what seating arrangements were. Kids get hurt unfortunately, and they are great opportunities for lessons. I always try to find gratitude also and would encourage your son to look for the gratitude to be found in this circumstance. As for the help that you and the other mom performed, I try to do everything as "unto the Lord", and for "fun and for free" God will reward you for what you did on that day. :) I'm so sorry you and your child were hurt, I'm sorry that it's not the last time either. Use it to glorify God and learn from!
God bless you,
V.

I would say something to the mother. This situation lacked class. You do not invite then exclude children. It's a touchy subject because kids can have their own ideas at that age but since the mother did not let them sit at the "friends" table, she was also involved. It was unfair to use you and your friend to set up and help and then to treat your children in a way that made them upset. I wouldn't make a huge deal of it, I would just tell her that she made a poor decision that resulted in your child being upset. That she could have planned the event better by creating two smaller children's tables. One could be what the boy considered his close friends and the next one his other friends. The classification need not be discussed to the children. I found this situations of your horribly upsetting. The mother is about as immature as the child. If I were you I'd feel used for my gift and help and would stay away from this woman.

Hi M.,

Ask her over for coffee and tell her in the most gentle way you can. Try to get her to put herself in your shoes. Bad behaviour is unacceptable.
Good luck.
V.

I feel so bad for the two that were excluded. It sounds like you are family friends and I think the mother would want to know. If the situation was reversed, wouldn't you want to know that happened to your child? I am a school teacher and unfortunately, kids can be very unkind to each other. It's the parents and teachers job to teach them appropriate ways to treat other people (even when they aren't "friends"). It's never justified to leave others out. Tell your friend. If she's offended, then I'd question the friendship. Good luck =)

The best way that this problem should have been handled would have been on the day of the Bar Mitzvah when you should have approached the mother stating there was no place card for your child.

Although this Bar Mitzvah child was incredibly rude, in his mind, the table was for his peers and a 10 year-old is not the peer to the teens sitting at the table. He should have been placed at your table. My kids' teen table included only their school friends and their Bnei Mitzvah class friends. All others sat with their parents.

If you decide to talk to the mother, tell the mother how lovely the event was, how well her son performed, etc. etc. Then tell her you had a little upset with your child and possibly she might want to talk to her son about being kinder with younger children. Of course, be prepared for defensiveness if you decide to do this. And what does it accomplish? The event is over. The hurt feelings are behind you. Your call, but why go there when the results cannot be changed.

M.,

I am an event designer and deal with Bar Mitzvah mom's on almost a daily basis. We usually have place cards made out for every child even if a child is sitting with their parent. Doing so makes no child left out. The Bar Mitzvah child always has his closest friends sitting at his table. Seeing that your child is younger and may not have been close to the Bar Mitzvah boy, he was not supposed to be seated at his table but yours.

Whatever the case may be, it is unacceptable for your child not to have had a place card. You should have approached the mother and simply asked her where your son should be seated. At that point, you would have been told whether your son was to be seated with you or at the kids table. It could have been her sloppy oversight or her son may have destroyed the place cards just so your son and his friend would not sit at the "older" kids table.

Depending on how long ago the incident has happened, I would confront the mom if it bothers you so much. If you feel comfortable enough, find an appropriate time to either call or approach her in peron when you will have a few minutes of private time. Thank her for inviting you and your son, find something about the party to compliment her on and then tell her "by the way...". Don't blame her son for being a brat and point out his mistakes. Explain to her how your son felt. She will most likely apologize for the oversight and her son's behavior. Remember, it's not your job to discipline her child, but it is your right to protect your son.

Good luck! And let us know what happens.

Hi M.,
I am a Catholic Mom, but had to respond....wow what a mean kid! What I would do is approach the Mom and let her know in an objective way what happened. you may also add something such as"Kids will be kids, but if this were my child i would want to know." I also think she owes you an explaination as to why your son wasent included at the kids table.You may ask her nicely why, and if there was a problem. We were recently at a baptism and my two kids (10 and 12) sat with children as young as 5.
Hope that helps, and good luck to you. Let us know what happens!
J.

As a Mom, I'ts hard to just stand by and do nothing when your child is hurt physically or emotionally by another child. So it's ok to talk to the Mom. Tell her that if her boy didn't want you son their you would have never subjected him to such humiliation. She needs to know so that she can correct the behavior.

You should tell the Mom.
Things like this should not go "ignored." I believe that in certain instances a Parent has to know what their child does behind their back. This was clearly wrong of the child to say, and at that age especially. And I would certainly hope the Mom does not "allow" this to happen again.

Also, you mentioned that you "cut the cake at this party....and the other Mom helped set-up, fix food, and clean-up..." Well then, the Mom of this rude boy is also very rude and probably totally AWARE of the situation. Perhaps, do you think you both were invited just to "help" at the party...but not really included in their "inner circle???" How were you and the other Mom treated at this party? And where were your own seating arrangements? Were they acceptable?

I think the Mom is also guilty here.... her attitude toward all of you seems pretty opportunistic and stuck-up & disrespectful. It's obvious she does not "feel" you are actual "friends" but rather.... convenient assistants.

This is clearly wrong. If you don't say anything, she will think that you are to meek to do so, and can be taken advantage of..... just say it in a "nice" way but conveying full awareness of the situation. Don't take anymore hogwash from this woman....

All the best,
~Susan

Let it go and distance yourself from the mom and kid. Kids can be shitty sometimes and so can thier parents. They are not worth the emotional trouble. As for your son's Bar Mitzvah, he probably will have little contact with this kid from now on so your off the hook to reciprocate an invitation.

Hi M.,

I would definately approach the mom of the Bar Mitzvah boy, and soon! I think that you need to show your son that he can not be pushed over by others. It sounds like the Bar Mitzvah boy is a prick and a brat, and I am sure that his mother knows her boy. I would simply tell her how hurt your son and his friend were by the comments and that you are certain that if she spoke with her son things would get resolved. I say all of this because my first born used to be a withdrawn and shy boy and all the kids would pick on him. I am happy to say that now he stands up to himself and has the great self esteem.

I hope I have helped and if you or anyone you know needs Bar or Bat Mitzvah invitations, please do not hesitate to contact me at ###-###-#### or visit our website at www.signatureimprints.cceasy.com

Definitely approach the Mom. 'Cause it's rude to exclude your kid and his friend when you were invited. If the Mom is your friend and the you kid doesn't know the Bar Mitsvah kid, then it would be depending on the invitation. But in this case, the boys are in the same class, most of his friends are invited and also you and the other mom are invited, it would be rude to not include your kid and his friend. To me, it feels like the Mom only wants you there to help her party out instead of inviting you and your son to the party. I would be really upset if I were you.

M.,
It sounds like a very unfortunate situation. Certainly the mother was involved in the seating chart choices, but it doesn't mean that she made those decisions knowing that her son would be malicious to yours. Maybe she is self-involved or just clueless. It is likely that the air will never be cleared between you until you discuss it. If you do address the situation with her, telling her what she should have done and what she did wrong is the perfect way to put put someone on the defensive. Instead, tell her how your son FELT, what his experience was at the event, how it effected you and how hurt you are over the whole thing. Confrontation works much better and is far smoother when there is no "you did this and that" and you make it about the impact that the offense had on YOU. Her response will tell you whether it is a friendship worth keeping.
Good Luck,
L. P

i say totally bring it up. her son was really rude and maybe she isn't aware of his behavior. you should let her know that it really hurt your boy. this is unacceptable, and totally un-christlike behavior. don't be afraid to confront her, but remember to approach it giving her the benefit of the doubt. speaking the truth, but always in love.

hope all goes well.

I would say something to the mom. This is unacceptable behavior from her child and he should know that it was not a nice thing to say. What does it matter anyway? It's not like the kids are friends or anything. I would want to know if my child was not being nice. He needs to be talk to, and hopefully the other mother will agree. Just go about it in a way where you tell her that you child was very hurt by the conversation, and you thought that she should know about her childs behavior. What she does with the info is her business, but I think you should talk to her.
Hopefully, your son doesn't hold onto it to long. He doesn't need a friend like that anyway.
Good luck!

I wouldn't approach the mom....you don't want to make this a fight between u and another adult. ...although I WOULD make it a teaching lesson to your son on how NOT to treat others... Look at this as a learning experience..unfortunately, kids can be harsh, and this is bound to happen again in his teen years as well :(

Hi M.,

Wow, that's a nasty one. I know you're already planning on approaching the mom, so I'd like to make a couple of suggestions (as a rebbitzin).

First, know that this will be a very touchy subject. After all, I doubt the boy made up the seating chart on his own or set the table. Obviously, the mom was in on this from the beginning and should have handled the situation far more gracefully. At my kid's b'nai mitzvah, we seated all of the children together at long tables. The closest friends sat closest to the honoree, but everyone was together and no one was singled out. I asked the parents of the really small kids (under 5) where they would prefer their child sit -- at the table with them or with the older kids. I made a point of mixing up all of the ages but keeping kids who I knew to be friends together and asked the older teens (15 - 17) to keep half an eye on the little ones if they weren't sitting with their parents. For the most part, they were happy to do this (girls more than boys, but some of the older boys were terrific!). I made sure that there were activities that could be enjoyed by all and age appropriate party favors.

That being said, one thing that many families lose site of is that becoming bar mitzvah means to take on the yoke of the commandments, of which there are, according to Maimonides, 613 (not just the 10 listed in the aseret hadivrot). As such, it is at this time that the young person becomes a full member of the community, with all the responsibilities of an adult Jew. This means that the community should be involved in the Bar Mitzvah celebration, not just invited guests. This is one of the reason why most rabbis in the Conservative movement frown on the family having a private party immediately after services if it is customary in the community to have a public kiddush. (Unfortunately, even though it's frowned on, they are often powerless to stop it.) Perhaps the rabbi of your congregation (which I gather is pretty small) could discuss this aspect with this particular boy and his family, and make it a point to address it with other b'nai mitvah families in the future. Just as the boy is welcomed into the community, as a man he has the responsibility of being welcoming, or at least cordial and compassionate, to the entire community.

The second thought I have would be to suggest that the mother discuss a couple of sayings of Rabbi Hillel with her son. The first is from Chapter 1:14 of Pirke Avot (Ethics of the Fathers):

Im ayn ani li, mi ani?
Ukh'sh'ani l'atzmi, ma ani?
V'im lo achshav, aymatai?

This translates to:
If I am not for myself, then who is?
And if I am only for myself, what am I?
And if not now, when?

My personal interpretation of this is: I must be responsible for myself, my words and my actions. But if I am only concerned about my own desires, then what am I worth as a human being? And if I need to improve myself and my behavior, I should start immediately.

Also, there is a famous story from Mishna (tractate Shabbat 31a) in which a proselyte approachs R. Hillel and asks him to teach him all of the Torah while standing on one foot. Hillel's comment is "That which is abhorent to you, do not do to anyone else. All the rest is commentary -- now go and study." We hear this more often today as "the golden rule" -- do unto others as you would have others do unto you. In other words, how would the bar mitzvah feel if he had been treated the way he treated your son?

Now here's the tricky part (this comes from my role as mom of teenagers) -- don't be surprised if the young man responds with bravado and says something like "I wouldn't care" or "It wouldn't bother him if he weren't such a baby." Teen's usually know when they're wrong -- but they never want to admit it! When I have to have to engage in this kind of "tochecha" (rebuke) with my kids, I always preface it with "you don't have to admit anything to me, but you need to face this issue in your heart and in your own conscience."

BTW, Yom Kippur is only a couple of months away. This is the perfect opportunity for the young man to learn the true meaning of the chag -- that vows to HaShem will be forgiven on the night of Kol Nidre, but what we must really work for is the forgiveness of those whom we've hurt or wronged during the year. This cannot be done by asking for expiation from HaShem -- it can only be accomplished through true repentence and apology to the person who has been hurt.

Kol tuv (all that is good to you),

R.

BTW, as a Cub Scout family, did you know that your son can earn religious awards? I assume from his age that he is a Webelos scout, and he can earn the Aleph Award. As a Boy Scout, he can earn the Etz Chayim award, which can qualify him for a special college scholarship if he also earns Eagle. The requirements of these awards can add an extra dimension to his religious education. Contact P.R.A.Y. www.praypub.org for more info.

Definatly bring it up. But wait until you are less emotional about it yourself. If it were your son, wouldn't you want to know about it?
Even though the mom of the 13 year old may have been aware that there was exclusion, she certainly wasn't aware of the rude remarks. Give her an opportunity to educate and make a descent gentleman out of her son. Approach it in that matter even though you are hurting for your son. Likely, you will know at the end of the conversation if the freindship is worth preserving. I hope you can iron it out.

M.,
Having been the kid that often got excluded from the friends table at various birthday parties of my mom's friends' kids, you should not talk to the mom. She will then try to correct the behavior in her child, and that child will make life even more miserable for your child the next time they meet. It's obvious that the boy is a brat and has not been taught proper manners, and your job is to validate your son after the party and explain how to react to someone like him. Tell him it's ok to be hurt, but that next time they meet, he needs to remember to keep himself at a distance so he doesn't get hurt again by that particular boy. You can also refuse to go to these parties to which you were invited, especially after such a bad experience.

Alsok you mention that you are close off and on. Maybe it's time to make it more off and find friends who raise more like you raise yours.

Good luck!

Hi M.,

I would let it go. I see there are a lot of mixed reviews about this, but in my opinion, the mother either knew about the place cards, or put them there herself. There is no way she didn't know what was going on. Had that been me, I would have recognized there would not be enough places for every child invited and it would not go well.

While it is his celebration, she should have overseen his actions and not allowed for his guests feelings to be hurt. Further, she should have known it would have hurt your feelings as a parent.

I recently had a friend hurt my feelings because she never makes time for me and everything is on her terms. Her recent invite to hurt my feelings again was overlooked and I will probably pass on a few more. I am questioning our true friendship and if it is contingent I do as she wants things than I'm not having any fun and I am out of there!

In my opinion, yes, you absolutely approach the parents.

You tell them what happened, and you ask them to have their son write a letter of apology to both your son and the friend.

It doesn't matter in the least whether the kid's parents are receptive or not.

What matters is that afterward, you tell your son AND his friend exactly what you said to the parents, and that the way they were treated was entirely unacceptable. You tell your son that if he and his friends DON'T receive that apology, those folks won't have the pleasure of your family's company again, and move on.

I'm so sorry for your son. How utterly awful to have that happen.

Clearly the Bar Mitzvah boy was absent on the day "loving kindness," not to mention common courtesy, was taught. Have you considered chatting with the Rabbi about this? If this happened at our synagogue the Rabbi would've been all over this in a heartbeat.

My son was Bar Mitzvah'd last spring and if he had done something like that, I'd want to know. But, more importantly, I'd want the hurt family to speak directly to my son. As you know, becoming Bar Mitzva means you take your place as an adult in the Jewish community. This boy should be treated as such.

Good luck!

I think I would just mention to her what her son said and that your son and the other boy felt left out. As parents our kids say and do a lot of things that we are unaware of. I know for myself if my son said anything that mean to another child, whether they liked them or not, I would want to know. Try not to say it from a place of anger, but more matter of fact.

Other than that, did your son have a nice time at the Bar Mitzvah?

If you feel awkward around the mother of the child with the bad behavior, it would be best to get it out in the open. That awkwardness might put a strain on your friendship, and she might eventually notice and want to know the reason.

She might feel absolutely mortified that you felt the way you did and want to talk calmly to her son about what he did.

If you approach her with the mindset that she fix her son, she will be defensive. If you approach her with your feelings that your friendship with her is now strange and tense, she will want to do something about it, especially if she is a good person too.

However, if she is the type of person who believes the sun rises and sets on her son, you would be better off not saying something and just avoiding situations with them in the future.

M.,
I always say honesty is the best policy. If it is bugging you then get it off your chest and let her know. I would if I were in your situation. I would get her by herself with just you and say something like "I have to talk to you about something that is bugging me. I am telling you this because we are friends and I think you should know. I'd tell her the story then say, I'm not looking for an apology or anything else I just wanted you to know because it hurt my son's feelings and thus mine as well." Hopefully she will respect your feelings and honesty. I think how she takes it will be how you approach it.

Good luck,
M. P