Question About "Putting Them down Awake"

The first time he wakes up, he may be hungry, so instead of just trying to calm him down, try feeding him that time. Then set him back down while still drowsy.

Also, give him 5 - 10 minutes of fussing/crying to see if he'll settle himself down before you go in there. Listen for the differences in the crying and fussing. Is it just a 'i am hot' cry, 'i am wet' cry or 'i can't find the paci' cry. I have spent many nights standing in the hall or laying awake in bed listening for them to settle back down.

I exclusively breast fed all 3 of my babies and co-slept with them until they didn't want to anymore...I didn't much care what my husband's opinion of it was. He was welcome to the couch or another bed.

Breastfed babies tend to wake in the night more often because they are hungry. So they need fed.

I breastfed, and I fed him! If my son woke in the middle of the night, I brought him into my bed and fed him lying down. I have often heard that 7 month olds (I looked at your profile) do not need to eat at night. Sorry, but if they are hungry, they are hungry ... feed him.

Whatever you do right now to help him sleep will probably not work in a month or two, anyway. Don't worry about setting a bad habit. If whatever you decide to do becomes something that you no longer want to do or is no longer working, you'll try something else. But for now, do what works.

For the record, we co-slept with each of our boys for about the first 14 to 16 months. Both of them now go to bed on their own and sleep in their own bed. Co-sleeping is not a bad habit. It is a great way to sleep (because you do need to sleep) during those early days.

ETA - I never put the boys down "drowsy but awake." In theory it sounds good, but I don't think it matters. Babies change every few weeks. I did what worked. If it was the swing, the carseat, co-sleeping, nursing, whatever. Whatever it took to get baby to sleep.

I don't quite know why you are bothering to put him to sleep "drowsy" if you aren't willing to let him learn how to put himself back to sleep when he wakes up in the middle of the night. All you are doing is teaching him that YOU will put him to sleep when you go into him over and over, nursing him AND putting him in the bed with you. He is NOT a newborn. He's 4 months old. He doesnt need to be nursed all night.

Either stop going into him and let him cry, or go in and sit in the floor beside his crib and touch him and let him cry, without picking him up AT ALL so that he eventually learns that you won't be putting him back to sleep, or just keep him in your bed from now until he's a lot older. This in-between thing you are doing is NOT going to work. You need to bite the bullet or throw in the towel, one or the other.

And no, a 4 month old doesn't need to nurse all night. He wants to, but he doesn't need it. You have the right to sleep. Being a good mother doesn't mean rolling over to every demand your child makes. A good mother learns to say no so that she can be healthy for herself, her husband AND her children. There's nothing healthy about staying up half the night getting him up, and putting him down, over and over again, just to keep him from crying.

I co-slept with my daughter most of the time, but either way she typically nursed at about 9, 1, and 5 o'clock. Until she was 12 months old.

I guess I don't understand why you couldn't sleep with a 4 month old in a twin bed?

And, your husband sounds like a winner, sorry, with his demands, dislikes, and refusal to help.

Why can't he eat when he's hungry? Baby's don't normally sleep all night. They have tummy's the size of their fist. They need to eat every couple of hours.

It won't be too long before he's able to go that many hours without food. When hubby gets home he needs to take the baby some during the night and you pump so you can sleep a few nights in a row.

Hi, sorry to hear you're going through this. I can relate, and I know how tiring it can be. I had three children I breastfed and was so tired at times, I was desperate. One of my babies slept through right away, one was average but one took forever.

I have a wonderful pediatrician very like Dr. Sears. Very no-nonsense, has a big brood himself, is very respected and down to earth. Here's the advice he gave me when I was desperate.

First, he told me that there are no hard and fast rules for when a baby should sleep through the night. He told me to forget about that :) That was kind of a relief, after having a first child who slept through super early, and I was following the same routine but it wasn't working.

He said the first step was to minimize the wakings, and that there were things I could do to prevent them in the first place.

He asked me if I was doing a really big feed before bed and during the night, or if the baby was falling asleep during feeds, or only feeding on one side. He referred those kinds of feeds as snacks, and said they will definitely wake sooner if they haven't had a full feed. So better to keep them slightly awake, and drain both breasts. Otherwise they will wake again in an hour or two.

He said let him cry just long enough to hear that "hunger" cry before feeding him. If we pop a soother in, then that might work for 1/2 hour, and you get back to sleep, only to be woken again.

He said often breastfeeding moms don't have quite enough milk at the end of a long day for the last feed or night feeds, so the babies will get hungry and wake more often. He said to up my water consumption especially towards the end of the day. He said some moms supplement with a bottle for the last feed, if they are really running low. Whatever works for the mom and baby.

Very important - he said keep the baby awake long enough to do a BIG burp. If you skimp on burps the last feed or during the night feeds, gas can become painful within an hour or so. He said better to wake them slightly to get it out, and have them sleep longer.

He said for some babies, being wet is enough to make them cry out so again, better to wake them slightly, and change them if this is the case.

For me, the best advice he gave was to buy a sleeper bag, especially if babies kick off covers. He said a lot of babies wake just from being cold.

He said do these preventative steps, and put him down when he's sleepy, and it should improve. It helped me, so I hope this was helpful :)

Sound like O. option would be send your husband to the single bed, then you & the baby will have more room.

In this case, it seems to be a bad habit. Babies don't know what time it is... they are creatures of habit though. If you give in and feed him every time he wakes and cries, he will continue to wake an cry. I nursed by 3 and all 3 slept 10 hours straight by 3 mos. In fact, the younger 2 were sleeping 4-6 hours straight by one 2-4 weeks, and 8-10 hours straight shortly after. So, it can happen even with breastfed babies. I know a lot of it was just the nature of my kids, but I also never went straight to feeding them when they woke in the night. I would wait a few minutes to see if they settled. Then I would go pat their backs or rock them a little etc. If they didn't settle I would feed them of course. When you say, do I have to put him down drowsy but not asleep, the bottom line, he is still waking and being fed (regardless of how he is put back down). If you are aiming for 3-4 hour stretches, then you have to only allow him out of his crib to breastfeed at those intervals. It is not unrealistic and he is not waking from hunger at this point if he is waking more than that. At this age, he is waking out of habit and should just be soothed back to sleep (not nursed) and not rocked all the way to sleep. It is ok to let a baby cry... that's what babies do and sometimes it helps them to get some energy out. As long as he is not hurting or sick he will be fine. Just be consistent and try not to give into the urge to nurse him back to sleep. The first few nights will be hard but it will get better. Good Luck!

if you feed at 2, then a feed habit will develop at 2. And breastfeed babies do not need to eat at night! I have a second baby that hasn't, and she started sleeping 11-12 hours at 10 weeks of age.

The key is consistency. if you are going to co-sleep, then co-sleep. if you want baby to self-sooth and not need you, then stop bringing baby to bed.

With subsequent wakings....with this last baby, I had hubby go in. He would sing a song or two, and that was that. But my baby didn't wake a lot, she would only wake once, sometimes, after only being down for an hour or two. Can your hubby do this? And my hubby travels too. But it's his kid too, so he helps out tons when he is around. It was either this or give baby a bottle. Your hubby really does need to help here.

You need to increase your nursing during the day. If you havne't done it, get the baby whisperer solves all your problems.great book!

Sounds to me like baby is overtired. You need to help baby get some sleep, and then baby will sleep better. Your are at the key place in terms of developing habits. So you really do need to go on as you'd like to continue. This is when baby is going to learn a system of falling asleep. In my house, it's simple: we change diaper, put on a sleep sack, read a short book, nurse and then into bed you go.

Does baby go down easily?

The popping awake really is a sign of baby being overtired, and now is when baby learns to self-sooth. So, you need to be consistent. This will quickly (within 3-5 days) teach baby what to expect, and then baby will sleep. In fact, around this age my current baby would do a small protest yell, but then just roll over and stick her thumb in her mouth. I was just so consistent, she quickly learned, it's bedtime,so sleep.

sorry for the rambling, I haven't had a cup of tea yet and I'm pressed for time.

Our ped had told us that babies no longer "need" to be fed during the night once they reach 12 lbs or 3 months, whichever comes first.

Our baby was colicky, he cried all the time. We used Ferber, we felt we had nothing to loose. It worked for us.

Good luck to you and yours,
F. B.

whatever method you choose, be prepared to go whole hog, for 7-10 days in order to see an affect, or to rule it out as not working. inconsistency is your worst enemy.

Since you are making yourself crazy with this.

Here's a link that might help some, she has a great book that I know a lot of people swear by.

http://www.pantley.com/elizabeth/advice/0071381392.php?ni...

I co-slept with all of mine, it was how I got more sleep, and I never expected an infant to not 'need' food in the middle of the night. If they were hungry, they were fed.

http://www.askdrsears.com/topics/feeding-infants-toddlers...

I also want to add that at 4 months your baby is probably going through a growth spurt and they do need the extra calories when that happens,.

Are you burping him after he wakes for that first feeding? It could be gas waking him up. Often when babies are nursed to sleep they don't get burped and they wake up because of the tummyache. When he is six months and ready to go without the night feedings I urge you to read the Ferber book. There is crying, but it isn't just leaving them to cry alone, and it usually only takes a couple of nights.

I always just nursed my daughter back to sleep. It doesn't last forever.

Both my breastfed babies were sleeping in their own cribs for 7-8 hr stretches at 3 months...every baby is different, but it IS possible. If co sleeping doesn't work for your husband, then don't do it. The point of putting the baby down awake is so he learns to put himself to sleep, which is what you want him to do in the middle of the night. A baby's sleep cycle is about 90 minutes. So, every 90 minutes he will come up to a light sleep or partial wakening. Maybe try some cluster feeding in the evenings and stretching the overnight time between feeds just a bit, 3 hrs or so. If he wakes before it's time to eat, either let him figure it out, or go in and pat his back for a few minutes. You can certainly feed him throughout the night, but it doesn't need to be every hour. If you intervene with every wakening, it will become something he expects and he won't learn to self soothe. You still swaddle? Have you tried swaddling but leaving one arm out? Maybe he's ready for just a little more freedom? Both my babies were rolling onto their bellies around 5 months and sleeping in any position they chose. You could try skipping the swaddling some day during nap time and see what happens.

The best advice I received on this subject was that sometimes at night when they seem to wake up and cry, they're actually just lightly sleeping and are a bit restless - and if you allow them to settle themselves back down, usually they'll go right back to sleep within 5 minutes. It seems like an eternity in the middle of the night, but next time your baby wakes, don't go to him right away. Look at the clock, and make the conscious effort to give him 5 minutes to settle back down on his own. Chances are pretty good that he will. Sometimes when you go into the room, you actually wake the baby up all the way, and at that point, he knows you're there and WILL help him settle down, so he's going to insist upon that. :)

The other thing I'd do is to really make sure he's getting a big, full meal before bedtime. Feed him until he literally can't take any more. In order to do that, he's got to be HUNGRY for that last nursing of the day, so I'd also try to make sure he's going 4 hours in between feedings during the daytime. The hungrier he is for each feeding, the more he will eat, the more you'll produce, and the happier everyone will be once bedtime rolls around.

My last bit of advice is to make sure you're putting him down for the night around 6. It may sound early, but my girls slept a LOT better if I put them down super early for the night (and they did not wake up any earlier in the morning, which was nice).

Good luck! I hope you find a solution that works for you.

I breastfed both my kids.
They had HUGE GINORMOUS appetites and I had oodles of milk.
I just woke when they woke and nursed them.
I knew their cues and noise, per hunger or if they are just rustling in their sleep.
I woke and nursed, woke and nursed, as needed on demand.
Sure with my 2nd child, I was so tired of the breastfeeding thing... but I plugged on. And it goes by so fast. And then before I knew it my son was weaning himself. At about 12 months.
I put down my kids for sleep, per whatever or however they were.
Both my kids were different.
One needed to be swaddled/held. The other did not so much.
Oh well.

When my kids were 4 months old, they woke at night. Still. And especially at growth spurts. If they were hungry, they were hungry. I nursed.
But if you don't want to nurse, then give baby a bottle.

sounds as if you've got two different things going on here. you put him down and let him find his own way to sleep which is good, but when he wakes in the night you feed on demand. which is also good, but not if you're trying to get him to self-soothe and sleep through.
i'm annoyed at your husband who is making this solely your problem. my first suggestion is that HE get the mattress on the floor.
so, you need to decide what you want to do. if you are okay with baby nursing to sleep, move the husband out, or put a bed for you in the baby's room. if you want to sleep-train the baby, you've got to resolve to tough it. i don't mean CIO, but back-rubs and sitting quietly near baby when he wakes. you can't expect him to learn 'no night feedings' if that's what always happens when he cries.
i wouldn't get too hung up the 'drowsy but awake' thing. it's not the DBA that's causing the night problems, it's that you don't want to nurse, but keep doing it. you just have to resign yourself to less sleep for a while in order to get the baby on board with the idea.
i guess i'm mean to hope that the fussing wrecks your husband's peaceful nights while you hash it out........
khairete
S.

First - he'll keep having a "midnight" snack until he's about 9-12 months old. So when he sleeps 3-4 hours, that's good. When it's only 1-2 hour breaks - then he needs to learn how to self-soothe.

Next time stare at a clock the moment he wakes up at night. Wait 5 minutes. No more, no less.

It is possible that he could be going through a growth spurt and is actually hungry. My third started teething around 3-4 months, getting her first tooth at 4 months even though her older brothers didn't get theirs until closer to 6 months. Whenever she was getting a new tooth she was up all night nursing, even with Tylenol, because it hurt. He could be on the verge of a new milestone so his mind is working over time.
When my kids woke up I got up and nursed them back to sleep. If they didn't want to nurse I would hold them and give them the reassurance they needed to go back to sleep.
I did not jump up at every whimper mind you. Sometime they would fuss a little in their sleep and go right back to sleep. I would give them a minute or 2 to see if it was just "shuffling whimpers" vs actually waking up.
Breast milk is digested faster than formula and a baby's stomach is only as big as it's fist. This means babies wake more often to eat. It is also a natural, biological thing for babies to wake often when they are little for their safety. A baby that is not artificially forced to sleep longer stretches are at less of a risk of SIDS than those babies that are artificially forced to sleep longer stretches before they are biologically supposed to. All those "rules" about babies X age don't need to eat at night are very inaccurate. It all depends on the baby and their needs in the moment.

You are getting advice and experiences all over the place. At this point you should probably conclude each baby and each family has a different answer. You should probably also realize there is no solution which works for every baby and every family. So what will be the answer for your baby and your family?

To answer your specific questions – I never understood the put them down drowsy thing. Yes, I understand what it is supposed to mean but it never worked in reality for us. With mine they were either awake or asleep. I didn’t see much in between so I could never do anything with that bit of advice. Instead my husband and I asked ourselves what we were willing or unwilling to live with. We were willing to attend our children at night because in our minds they needed something. They were not crying for practice or manipulation. They needed something and the trick was figuring out the something as fast as possible to get them back to sleep as quickly as possible. We had the mental checklist: hungry, cold, hot, dirty diaper, teething, gassy, fever…? We found it was easier to address the crying baby than it was to wish he wouldn’t cry and would sleep through the night. Basically we accepted there would be many sleepless nights but that this phase shall pass and stress never solved anything. What are your beliefs about sleep? Your experience with your first will bias your beliefs but I would like to point out that you might not have the same issues with your second. Just because your first didn’t sleep through until 20 months and needed nursing every ninety minutes doesn’t mean your second will be identical. Your babies could be fundamentally different and/or your approach could change and make a positive (or negative) impact on the situation. Do you think your children are very similar? Do you think your approach is the same with your second as it is with your first? Do you know of anything you did with your first which you absolutely refuse to do with your second? How do you think that will impact the sleep issue?

With my breastfed baby I put a pacifier in his mouth when he wakes at night. Typically he goes back to sleep easily with his pacifier. When he was small like yours is now, I would feed him when he woke at night. However, he wasn’t waking as often as yours so it wasn’t as demanding. I was lucky my second slept through the night from early on. My first did not sleep through until 14 or 15 months and we were feeding him at night up until 13 months. I know the conventional wisdom says babies of a certain age or weight will sleep through the night and that we as parents can create or cater to our baby’s bad habit. I politely disagree. My first was not a big eater and would not be stuffed right before bedtime. He was bottle fed so we tried the cereal thing in his bottle and stretching him between feedings. He was bad about falling asleep during bottles and not napping during the day. All of those things came together and created a baby who did not sleep through more than two to three hours at a stretch. We tried sleep training three separate times for three weeks each and he would not cooperate. Since he was not a goose, I could hardly force feed him. We felt we were stuck with the conventional wisdom. The only thing we refused to do was co-sleep. That left us with the decision to take turns dealing him at night and that made it possible to live with limited sleep and a fussy baby. A friend of mine had similar experiences but no help from her husband so she co-slept with her first and frequently slept in the nursery with her second. What do you think the relationship is between food and sleep? What do you think about creating or catering to bad habits in our babies? You mention co-sleeping is not an option with your husband but if he is not willing to help, how much of a vote does he get? You mention a mattress in the nursery but no safety rail. Can you put the mattress directly on the floor so it is safer? Can you sleep on the floor with only a comforter under you? No one wants to purchase extra furniture but if it would improve the sleep situation, how much is that worth to you?

I think if you are changing your approach mid way through the night, you are undermining what you are attempting to do. No half measures. You are either going to do one thing or the other. Do not blend the two. It won’t help you or the baby. If parts of the gentle sleep training are not working, then adapt them to something else but don’t change the approach entirely. I think you should think of alternatives during the day and not in the heat of the moment when you are jagged and tired and dealing with a fussy baby. If you have alternatives in mind, then at night you can more easily attempt something different but not change your approach entirely.

I think you should start by figuring out what you expect and need. Also I think you need to honestly think about what role your husband will play in this little drama. As much as you want and need his help and as much as other posters rail against him, if the reality is he won’t help, then that is what you have to work with. His lack of help may influence your decision so give this point some thought. Finally you have two children to care for so think about how your decision will impact your ability to care for them. Obviously you cannot attend to the needs of one to the exclusion of the other. Balancing their needs is tricky, especially at the baby stage and even with help. For instance if you decide to sleep train, you need to think through what it means if you are not sleeping for up to a week at a stretch. Is that a good idea for you? Your children? Your husband? For instance I know I can go two days tops without proper sleep. Even then at night I am a bear and probably make situations worse and the same happens during the day which is hardly fair to anyone around me. Is there someone other than your husband who could come help you during the day or at night if you need to sleep train? Could you pay to have a helper come in during the day so you could nap or overnight to help with the sleep training? My friend decamped to her mother in law’s a few times because she desperately needed help and her husband wouldn’t step up. Sometimes we have to get creative with our solutions to have effective outcomes.

If you want more sleep and expect your baby to sleep longer, then you should probably try some means of self-soothing/sleep training/CIO. If that is the route you go, then you are going to have to do that full bore. No getting up half way through the middle of the night and waffling and changing your approach. It will only create confusion and undermine your efforts. You will need to consistently try the sleep training for one week straight. For what it is worth I think it is a bit early for sleep training. The conventional wisdom I have heard is to start sleep training by 6 months. Four months is not a newborn but that is still a young baby in my opinion. I would be tempted to give your baby one more month of overnight feeding on demand and then reassess. Maybe your baby just needs a bit more time to mature and then sleep through a few more hours. What do you think about the various sleep training methods? Do you think babies need a certain degree of maturity or age to sleep through the night? Do you think children come programmed a certain way and that preprogramming impacts their ability to sleep?

There is no hard and fast rule on sleeping. I think you need to assess your family dynamics, identify what you are seeking to solve and what you can and cannot live with. Then you should take all of the advice you have received along with your own inherent beliefs and next create a plan which speaks to you and meets your criteria. Finally you need go completely committed into implementing it. Remember your plan of action may or may not work despite consistency and you may have to tweak or change things as you go along. What are you going to do if what you try does not work? However, with whatever approach you pick, be absolutely consist for several nights before changing anything unless some part of the approach clearly makes the situation worse. Again I would caution you about thinking your baby is going to be like your oldest. I think we have to be careful we don’t self prophesize. I feel like we focus on an outcome so hard we almost will it into being. Good luck. No sleep is such a drag but believe me when I say this too shall pass. The question is how long will it last?

This is 100% hunger related. You really can't sooth a hungry baby to sleep for longer or expect them to sleep when they are hungry. It is possible for babies as young as 3 months to sleep through the night, but they need to be full. This is fairly easy to do with formula and cereal, but virtually impossible for exclusively breast fed babies because breast milk is not filling. It's healthy, but not filling. If you are dedicated to nursing exclusively, then you will have to be patient for a few more months and keep nursing all night. He is hungry. As soon as you can thicken bottles and add enough feedings during the day to insure he's full at night, he will sleep longer.

My first had me nursing her all night until she was almost one. Once I learned that trick and fed her more, she slept all night. My younger two I just stuffed with as much formula, cereal and even solid food on top of nursing-and they slept like rocks after 3 months. But if they ever hit a growth spurt or I slacked on the feedings-boom-they started waking during the night again.

Nurse however you need to and realize it's temporary. If you are able to get up and down enough to keep putting him back in his bed, great. If you're too tired, just co-sleep until this phase passes. No new furniture necessary. Tell the hubs to zip it, the baby's hungry. Keep the baby on your side. I did it in a queen bed with enormous husband. But again, for second 2 kids I could't take the lack of sleep and just stuffed them.

He needs to eat more during the day so he's full at night.

I would nurse to sleep for now, he is not ready. Not clear why he isn't getting longer stretches...tummy pain? I would only feed 1-2 x night after which u nurse to sleep anyway.