Potty Training & Discipline Problems with My 4 Year Old

Do you think he might be using this as something he can control, rather than letting you "win" by using the potty like he's likely perfectly capable of doing? If there's a way to make him be in charge of the process, maybe it would go over better. Something like letting him decide what times of the day (using an easy to read clock) will be potty times, or letting him choose which bathroom, or even let him decorate the bathroom with a favorite poster or something.

One thing that worked for my sister was to give 5 minutes of tv time for every time her daughter used the potty. After about two weeks her daughter was used to going on the potty and they didn't need to time the tv any longer. Best of luck to you!

Hi T.,

My son was also a little resistant to potty training, even after we knew he understood the concept. I really think the best thing is the naked approach. We cranked up the heat and moved a bunch of toys/books/games and his potty chair to the kitchen (the rest of the house was carpeted). He still wore socks and shirts, but naked from the waist down. He was SUPER angry about the whole thing because he understood right away that he had no choice but to either go in the potty or soil himself. Luckily for us, he opted for the potty and pretty quickly got over whatever issue he was having (and after much celebrating every success).

After about a day and a half, he was officially 'potty trained' in terms of telling us when he had to go. After his naked kitchen time, he was in regular underwear exclusively - No more diapers or training pants or anything, not even at night. He actually never peed his bed and I don't know if that's just luck or if he was older and it all just 'clicked' all at once. There were still accidents (and you should expect them for awhile while they get the 'timing' down), but they were truly accidents and not just refusing.

I really think you just have to draw the line and say "today's the day my darling boy!" ... Good luck!

Go and purchase the book.... Toilet training in less than a day. It is by Nathan Azrin and Richard foxx..... You will not be sorry- I work in the early childhood field and have seen it work with kids that have special needs and children as young as 18 months old. I am planning to do it with my 20 month old after we get back from vacation in March...... P. in Alaska

While I appreciate that you are attempting to help out a mom with her issues, I think that telling her that - and I quote - "Ok, well I'm going to give you my 2 cents worth which may sound harsh. Unless your child is handicaped mentally or physically, there is absolutely no reason for him to not be potty trained by now. "

Does this sound remotely helpful? If this had been sent to me, I may not have read the rest, as you just told me that my child is mentally retarded & I am to blame.

Had you left that little portion out, the rest of the advise is good. If I were this child's mom however, I would be feeling pretty crappy right about now. Just a tip - if you have to apologize at the beginning of your advise, perhaps it is a little over the top.

We are all moms here, let's at least try to be civil.
Just my $0.02
~J.

Howdy...I have a grip of boys and have been thru this 5 times and have 1 more to go. Consistancy is the key, as long as they are ready and the fact that he is 4 I am sure he is ready. We put cheerios or froot loops in the toilet for them to "shoot" at and of course they all got a piece of candy when they actually went. I used the dum dum suckers, they are cheap, come in bulk and are really not that big! Last but not least, put the big boy real underwear on and dont go back to diapers. It will suck for a couple days but that should be it. you know your kid so watch for signs that he might have to go and also watch the time, take him in to try often!!

Good Luck!

OOOOHHhhh! Have I been here. My son finally got "trained" within three weeks of his 4th birthday as if by magic. Like you, I tried all of the tricks and he still would not use the toilet consistantly. What I did with him was make him responsible for his own body. When he needed to go, he could go in his pantsand he would be responsible for dealing with the results. My job was limited to taking off his shoes, putting him in the tub and handing him a warm wash cloth. None of this was mean or unkind. In a very matter of fact way I informed him that what his body produced was HIS responsibility and using the toilet was probobly easier. He was outraged, as only a four year old boy can be. The first time was, admittedly, was an aweful mess. He piled his soiled clothes on one side of the empty tub and attempted to clean himself up. I helped with the finishing work and brought him clothes.
We revisited this nightmare only twice more. A couple of wet pants episodes and then, DONE.
Me: A fifty something mom of an amazing,toilet savy teen boy and a brilliant adult daughter studing in Paris. I am a former nanny and recovering social worker.

Do you have his full attention when you use discipline tactics? I have had to get full control of their face to make sure they are paying attention and understand me.

Hi T.,

Your son may be using potty training as a power strugle. How parents can turn that around is a huge issue. I can't recommend Love & Logic enough. Works wonderfully with 2 year olds - and 15 year olds! Google "Love and Logic" and check it out on the web.

J.

I suggest put him in underwear. It took from May- January for my 3 year old to be potty trained. I think it is partly a battle of the wills. I didn't have as much problem with poop as I did with pee. He would always just wet the smallest amount... just enough to make me do laundry. I have around 20+ pairs of underwear and it's a good thing.

During summer months I just let him run around naked. He just learned that he needed to go. It really took me just going along with it and giving it time. They need to be comfortable and willing. But, I recommend that you be consistant. If you decide to put him in underwear, then put him in underwear and not go back and forth between diaper. I have a friend who's four year old poops in his undewear and not the diaper... but she has gotten him to do it in the bathroom now, instead of in their dinning room. Also, remember that you are the parents. You may want to just not give him so much reign or so many options. I also have two, and keeping up with them and potty training is a challenge. Hang in there!

My friend used positive reinforcement (OK, a bribe) to encourage her daughter to use the potty rather than a diaper. She said, "When you get good at going in the potty, and stop using diapers, I'll tell the garbageman that we won't be leaving him any more stinky diapers. He'll be SO HAPPY that he'll bring you a present." Worked like a charm (with a few setbacks, of course).

Hi T., I feel your pain & struggle. My son is now 8 yrs. old and even now very, VERY occasionaly he has accidents because he is very active and does not take the time to go immediately when he has the urge so he may have a little mess in his undies. I think this is more typical & more of a struggle with boys who are particularly more active & loose focus easily. Often when watching TV or playing with toys or friends it does occur. I would recommend for you to observe your son very carefully how he plays and or gets distracted with things and try to find what really motivates him to make more of an effort to go potty like a big boy. I only caution you that from my own experience with my son I regret being to harsh with him & making him overly anxious over potty training because he was my 1st born and I felt pressure from family & others that well he needs to be potty trained he is already 4 and will soon need to go to school. What I learned was that we can never force things like that on our kids certainly we can encourage in positive ways and have rewards or incentives but don't force it. It's a battle of the wills and they will tell you when they are truly ready to give up fighting you over it. I found that I would drive my son nuts constantly asking him and always making him and at times I found myself really getting angry at him and then he would be afraid of me. All these things instead of helping were hurting him and making potty training even more stressful for both of us and I believe prolonged him becoming potty trained even more. So breathe in deeply because I assure you that your son will be potty trained but it will require alot of patience & understanding on your part as his parent. I can't say how I wish I would have not lost my temper or stressed out my child more because of my strong desier to potty train him. I love my son dearly and it was a very humbling experience for me to learn to be tender with him in all circumstances even though potty training can be rather unpleasant. You may want to try putting him around other boys who are his age & go potty so he can see how grown up they are and this may motivate him to do the same or they have videos on potty training for parents & boys that make it fun and light hearted. I remember putting the potty chair everywhere in the house where my son was so that I could observe him and see him wiggle or hide behind a chair then I would have the potty close at hand to help him learn to use it. As he got older about 4 1/2 I sometimes taught him to help me clean up his messes because he was getting old enough to understand that he needs to be more responsible of his body and control himself better especially if you know they willfully waited to long to go to the bathroom. This unpleasantness of cleaning up his mess was a natural consequence for his actions and I think it helped him remember that it's not enjoyable to clean that up. I am not sugessting that you leave it all up to him because they will need your help and supervision in doing this but they are capable especially by age 5. I know it can be embarassing and very difficult to go through their accidents especially at parties or other peoples home but how we react to them can either break them or build them up to succeed & get there quicker. If he wears a diaper, you may want to show him how unpleasant it is to poop in them by not changing the diaper right away so they can feel a little uncomfortable about going in their diaper this is best done at home. Please note don't ever do these things out of anger or in extreme because it will only hurt them and prolong potty training in itself. I realize it must be even more challenging for you with also having your daughter at 14mo. to be there for both but don't get discouraged and don't beat yourself down because your not alone and it will get better. My daughter is 5 yrs. old and she was the difference between night & day in comparison to my son who is now 8 yrs. old. when it comes to potty training, my daughter was a breeze to potty train and she totally had the desire and she initiated it herself. It's funny because now I have my baby son who is 5 months old and I have gained alot of wisdom and I can't wait to do things so much better this time around with him. I never thought that my son would ever get potty trained especially when your going through the struggle but they do and your son will too. Hang in there don't give up and always remember to be his soft place and love him through it even when you struggle with your patience.
God Bless,
O. O.

I would suggest establishing job descriptions for you and your son. Kids want to know their parameters and they WANT rules (so they can test their boundaries). Sit down with him and explain what his jobs are (for example: eat meals, treat others with kindness, use the bathroom, put his toys away when he's finished using them, etc.). Then you let him know what your jobs are (taking care of the house, providing nutritious meals, laundry, etc.) If you want your son to be potty trained then let him change his own diaper. He'll demand that you change him. You will have already established what your rules are so you will be ready to respond with "No, that's not my job. That's your job." You run the household, not your son. If he continues to have behavior problems remind him of his jobs and yours. Oh, and don't stress about potty training. He'll figure it out when he starts school that it isn't socially acceptable to wear diapers! Oh, timeouts are a good thing for you to regroup and get your thoughts together so use them to plan your next step. You have to be more persistent than he is.

Often one of my children will try to boss another one around. I remind them that isn't their job and that it's my job to give instructions or discipline the kids or take away a potentially dangerous toy, etc.

I'm a mother of 5, 4 girls and 1 boy. Our oldest is 11. I find that when I try to work (I own and run a summer drama camp) my children tend to misbehave more. They don't like when I give my attention to the computer. So we've had to negotiate between all of the jobs I have to complete in a day and I've found that folding laundry and doing dishes is much more enjoyable when we work together. Anyway, good luck with your 4 year old and remember, he will be potty trained by the time he starts to date! He will never be 4 again so enjoy this experience with him.

L. B

T., in my view, your son is controlling you in the only way he knows how. My son was not fully potty trained until he was three. I believe this could have been earlier, but I did not push it and had no other children to tend. You son, at about three, had a new baby sister. Not stepping up to the plate and using the toilet makes you have to tend to him like his little sister. Remember that for children all the way through teenage years (and sadly often beyond) any attention is good attention if they are not secure in their family. Security comes from the right balance of love and discipline.

How to correct this: First, be sure he has no health problem that is causing this. Be confident that you see no organic cause.

Secondly, be sure your attitude is right and that is "I am the parent and I am in control of all situations. I am the boss and my children need me to lead and they must learn to follow." Now, I am not telling you to be the sergeant of your home, but rather to run it with your wisdom and maturity (your children have none of either). Your children never run your home, you and your husband always do.

Whatever you have been doing is not working. Back off of your old method, give your son plenty of Mommy time, insure that he is secure, and let a period of time pass. When you think he is ready (not when you are desperate to change his behavior), lovingly, but firmly let him know the way it is in your home and what his responsibilities are (in four year old terms). I believe that by this time you will have figured out how to effect change and your son will be ready to comply. Whatever method you will have devised, be consistent, insistent and ever so loving.

This is a problem that I've dealt with and what I learned was that you put them in the big boy pants. Accidents will happen but if he is made to clean up the mess, it only happens a few times....nobody wants to clean that up! Of course when he is done crying and carrying on...his cleaning job will leave a lot to be desired...you'll have to do some follow up but my kid was always sitting in the corner crying by this time.
BE TOUGH....it won't take to long, he's more than old enough.

That's a tough one. I guess that I would suggest forcing the big boy underwear. Pull ups and diapers just encourage them to go in their pants. It took a looonnnggg time with my son too. It was a few months after his 3rd birthday before we got him trained. One thing that clued me in that he was choosing to be lazy and go in his pants was that when I asked him if he wanted to wear big boy undies or pull ups he always chose pull ups. He just didn't want to be bothered with using the potty. So finally I stopped offering the pull ups and told him he had to wear big boy undies. We have had our fair share of accidents, mostly poop, he was pretty good about peeing in the potty right from the start. But we've had pee accidents too. Your son is definitely old enough to use the potty, decide when you're ready to really force the issue, dig your heels in, and make him do it!

You say you own your own business and stay at home, and have a smaller child. There could be some triggers here for your son's behavior. Do you take time to read to him, hold him, interact with him. If you do, these are times when you can help him calm down and really enjoy the process. Using your fingers, gently massage his back from his neck to his tailbone, lightly pinching each boney lump as you go down. Massage his neck from ear to ear and down to his shoulders. Massage his shoulders and shoulder blades. Massage his scalp very gently, rubbing behind and around his ears. If he objects, perhaps you are pressing too hard. If he enjoys this special Tender Loving Care...he will come back for more...or will respond in a positive way when you suggest it. This may also bring a postive response to his potty training as wll. Hope this helps.

Do not feel alone. One of my boys was the same way. He was four and a half before he finally pooped in the toliet. I think he finally trained because his little brother started showing interest in training and he wanted to show him how it was done. My advice is to remember that every child is different and you have to experiment to find out what will work for each.

on a side note it is interesting that you seem to be describing my sister and I. Older Sister was a lot of work, and I came along and they wondered why I was so easy.

jem-mom to seven

Hi T.,
I had the same problem and just about the same age spread between my son and his sister. He continued past 4 and I was beginning to wonder if he would be the only one in kindergarten wearing diapers. In desperation I did finally strip him down to just a shirt and shoes. We had two advantages: He'd witnessed what happened to the cat when it was being litter-trained. And, it was January and our house was a bit cool. He was reminded about what happened to the cat when it had an accident. (Though we'd never put him outside if he did, but we didn't mention that.) And we told him he could have his big boy pants when he started using the toilet; if he did ok with them, he could have slacks as well. He never peed anywhere. He did squat once behind a chair, and his dad caught him, administered a measured punishment, and made him clean it up. About 30 hours after that he came to me, begging for his pants, he was cold, and promising to behave. He kept the promise while he was awake. We had another donny-brook abouth getting up in the night vs. having diapers while asleep. But that too was conquered by the end of that summer.
Petco has a great pet stain remover, which will probably remove any marks. So you could spot clean and not need a carpet cleaner, if the battle gets tough.
Strong-willed children can be very difficult, but you must get the upper hand at this point, or you will never catch up with them. It's good that you and your husband can present a united front, or it will be even tougher.
Good luck!
L.

My oldest had the same problem. My pediatrician suggested that she might be constipated and it hurts to go on the potty. We used a prescribed children's laxative for a week and she was potty trained. You might ask your pediatrician about that.

I agree with Missy about the "cool" cleansing in the shower. I had to do that with one of mine. Another suggestion, less harsh but might work, is to withhold sugar and tell him that sweet treats are for big boys, not babies. Then have French Toast for breakfast or something like that, and don't let him have the syrup or powdered sugar because he's still "too little". Go that route until he decides he wants to be grown up and put his poopy where it belongs, then reward with something yummy. It is a choice, he knows what he's doing. So you have to convince him to change his mind basically.
D.

T.
Have you ever heard of Love and Logic classes? This is an amazing very effective way of parenting. They usually offer classes at local community colleges and sometimes in elementary schools (night classes). I would suggest that you and your husband take them together. It is about parenting using choices, (much more than that, love and logic that a child can understand. YOu sound like a very good mother and this type of class would benefit you greatly. Good luck
K.

I had issues with this at different times with my kids. A friend suggested that when there is an accident (obviously controlled accident), it was an automatic trip to the bathtub for a quick cleanse with 'cool' water. It was a lot of work and more trips to the tub early in the journey, but it just took a few days and then became very infrequent. Follow thru was VERY important once I started. My husband was not on board and thought it was mean. However, after just those few days, the accidents were very far between with occassional reminders of what happens when there is an accident. Sassy? I flicked the cheek lightly with a flick of my fingers. That didn't last long either. Good luck!

try putting your 4 year old in a preschool. My daughter was doing the same thing. Potty training was a horrible mess and her behavior was getting way out of control. Putting her in preschool twice a week has helped. She no longer has potty training problems and her behavior ...well... it's like having a different child now.

Ok, well I'm going to give you my 2 cents worth which may sound harsh. Unless your child is handicaped mentally or physically, there is absolutely no reason for him to not be potty trained by now. I have a three and a half year old son who was totally pee potty trained before three and poo potty trained slightly after three. Now, at three and a half, he goes by himself, I only need to help him wipe. And by the way, my son was very stubborn and afraid to sit on the toilet. I gave up on the baby toilet as he hated it and got a seat for him for the big toilet. From what it sounds like, he does not get the attention he needs as you said you work at home and have a young daughter. Sounds like he is doing all he can to get negative attention from you. Also sounds like you have not tried very hard or have been very consistant. You absolutely have to be consistant or he'll run your life for the next fourteen years. Not to sound mean, but maybe you should call the Super Nanny! That being said, you need to find some kind of reward that is actually worth it to him. For instance, with my son, he loves cars and trains. So, I went out and bought a whole bunch of matchbox cars and little trains and put them in a clear container on the top of the fridge. When he went pee in the toilet, he got a few M&M's and at the end of the day if he had no accidents he got a new car. With the poo training part, as I said my son was afraid to sit on the toilet. So first off, when he asked for his diaper, I would make him go into the bathroom and put it on, then we'd sit there until he did, then changed him. We told him that poo is dirty and it only belongs in the bathroom. And yes, he had a ton of fits about it but with a lot of consistency he finally would do it in his diaper in the bathroom without freaking out. Next, since he got that poo stayed in the bathroom. I went out and got a dozen of cheep little toys and wrapped them up as presents and put them on the fridge. If he went poo in the toilet then he got a gift. Those gifts sat up there for awhile before he decided it was worth it. It was very hard being that he was being so stubborn but by the time he got all the gifts, we were done. He has never had an accident and it worked out well for us. All that was recommended by our Doctor. So, first of, maybe take him to the doctor and have him evaluated if you have not already. If he is a normal little boy then with your consistency it should work. As I said I do think he is just doing it to get negative attention, so I'd say you need to think about where your priorities lay. As I said, sorry to sound harsh but I would have to say his not being potty trained is your fault. By the way, who cares about the carpet, get some Reslove carpet cleaner if you think keeping im his birhday suit would work. Your son is more important than your carpets, I'd say. Plus, is he is preschool? I would doubt it since they need to be potty trained... Kindergarten is right around the corner so you need to get on it ASAP, unless you plan to home school. Good luck with that, I hope I helped in some way.