Old Neighbors returning...it's Complicated

Let it go. They were across the country, what did you really expect them to be able to do from so far away? They were inexperienced absentee landlords, not the police, board of health or any other entity that can actually sweep in and make people do what they don't want to do.

It can't be easy to be cross country landlords. I find it hard to believe they really didn't mind that these things were happening, especially if anything bad was happening to their house. They may not have had near the control that you think they did.

I think it's best to give them the benefit of the doubt and move on. They do own their house. They are back. Does it really make sense to talk to them a out this now? Can any good actually come from that?

They are back. Put the past where it should be....in the past. You may not be tight like before and when the time comes and they ask why you have changed let them know how you feel. Until then keep the peace!!!!

So your friends are coming back and you are pissed? Really now, you are rid of the awful renters and you want to know how to handle it. I would gush all over them and welcome them back with open arms.

If I am reading your post correctly, their tenants are responsible for what you are deeming their misgivings? How are they supposed to control others, let alone from across the country? I would think that there is only so much that they could do, but they can not be held responsible for other's actions.

I think their return would be the best possible scenario for you. When they lived there, you liked them and all was well. Why would you expect it to be otherwise?

Maybe I'm missing something...

Unless there is more to the story than just the bad renters, I would definitely just let it go. They will probably be upset themselves upon seeing the state of their house when they return. Finding decent renters for a house is hard, especially if you are long distance. And evicting them when you discover they are bad is hard too. I would almost guarantee they were not happy with someone trashing their investment.

Why did you offer to be their agent and help straighten things up? It doesn't sound like your neighbors intended to be landlords. If you are not in the business of renting homes you can easily get in over your head especially when you are across the country.

It is their home. Do you really think they sat back and let it get destroyed? I am sure they wanted to do something but how? Travel across the country how many times at what cost, with how much time off from their jobs?

I am saying this because you need to let go of the anger. They were just as much victims as you all were. They made a really bad decision and then didn't know how to deal with it, they are human.

Help them get things back to normal. Pretty sure they will never make that mistake again. They didn't ignore it because they didn't care. They had no means to do anything.

What's done is done and they can't change the past. In the hopes of neighborhood peace, I would be friendly with them. There's no rule you have to be invite them over for cookouts, but at least being mature will avoid confrontations and drama.

We had a problem with a party house down the street. It was rented out much like you describe. The problem wasn't the landlord (who had protocols to follow to get an eviction). The problem was the tenant's son who had parties when she was away. The neighbors called the cops and eventually he got arrested and the landlord evicted his mother. The house has been sold and now we have lovely people there. I would chalk it up to a tough situation. There may not have been much they could have done about it from where they were or with the rules of renting to someone. Tenants have rights, too. I would focus on getting people that don't do those things back, and not hold it against them. Remember, if they had bad tenants, their house is probably trashed and they will be facing a lot of repairs when they return. That's penance enough. You needn't be best friends but be civil.

Kind of related, we were talking to the owner of a lake house when he was fixing stuff. He told DH to NEVER EVER have a vacation rental. People do stupid things because it's not "theirs" and then you're stuck cleaning it up all the time. And half of them don't report mistakes/minor damages because they don't want to pay for it, leaving people like me and DH to spend our first day at the lake getting things fixed. I really felt for the guy.

This sounds like a case where they possibly had no idea that their property was being abused this way. They might have rented to one family or person and those tenants were the ones who brought in others without the owners' knowledge. It's not like they could drive past the house and check up on things. Frankly, your mistake as a neighbor was not calling the police and/or the appropriate city or county enforcement agencies that handle issues such as homes violating local laws on numbers of occupants. You would have been doing the owners a favor, and yourself a benefit, if you had done that rather than expecting the owners to deal with it from thousands of miles away.

As the saying goes: "Out of sight is out of mind." Your FB notes to them probably got put aside in their minds, but you were right there next to the property and having issues -- why didn't you look up the local laws on occupancy and make your own life better by blowing the whistle on the tenants to the county or city? There are laws to deal with not only too many occupants but also abandoned vehicles, lawns that aren't mown, etc. I agree -- I'd be livid like you were, but saying the owners "allowed some pretty messed up stuff to go on" is throwing 100 percent of this on them as if they welcomed and permitted it freely. (Were you and they really that friendly before they left, if you assume the very worst of them like this?) I understand feeling that the landlord is to blame but (a) you knew them and didn't help them by calling the cops and/or other authorities and (b) you seem to have an attitude that they intentionally let this happen.

I would just tell them, "Wow, I am glad to have you back and I hope you're back to stay. The tenants in your house were awful neighbors, to be honest, and I look forward to living near a house where there's only one family and no cars everywhere." I'd be extra nice to them, rather than hashing out something that is done and over with. I bet they are returning to a trashed house and yard, too, and that will be their punishment as well.

If they stay a short time and tell you they plan to move again -- Then I would say sit down with them and explain the extent of the issues. Say that this time you can't live with what happened last time and will be calling the county or the cops daily if things go bad again. And then nicely insist that they pay a local rental agency a fee to handle this rental for them - so you have a LOCAL contact to call if there are issues next time. I' m not talking about a realtor to just handle initial rental; there are companies that handle the rental the entire time and deal with things like ensuring the property is kept up, etc. That's what is needed if they plan to rent again.

I read this post earlier and then just saw you SWH. The answer is they needed the money from the rent and no they really didn't care about their friends because they were too worried about themselves. That is the answer.

With them coming back, I wouldn't be out right rude to them but I wouldn't be warm and fuzzy either. If they ask, I would be upfront and tell them what happened and how it affected you and your family.

Good luck!

I would be over it and be close friends because...well what can you actually do from that far? Chances are you don't know what legal stuff was included. In fact if these people were respectful to you while they were in that house you should be relieved because you won't have to deal with crappy neighbors

I'd probably be thankful that they were back and the renters were gone therefore I'd let the neighbor know that if they plan to do it again they should get a property manager who can watch over everything on their behalf and go back to being friends. There's only so much they can do from across the country. Your complaints were directed at the wrong people. If things were really bad then you should have called the police.

You need to step back a minute and look at this from the neighbors side. They probably did the best they could from so far away. It is hard to rent a place out when you don't live in the area. And did you expect them to come home each day and check out the place? It is easy for a renter to say it is going to be me and my husband living here. And then sneak in an extra family on the side. Owners don't know it. And even if they did there is really nothing that can be done about it as long as the renters are paying rent on time and not breaking any laws.

There is really no reason to get into a battle over it. They are moving back in and you like them yes? If so let it go. You can always tell them how awful it was having renters in there and the different stuff that went on. But if you constantly harp on that then it won't be an issue of how tight you get to be. they will back off from you.

How would I approach things? The good neighbors are returning. I'd be thrilled and welcome them with open arms.

Would I act friendly and pretend I was not pissed? I'd get over being pissed because I don't live in the past. I'm sure that my friends hated the fact that all this was going on and they couldn't fix it from across the country. I'd get over it quick because I choose love. I choose to be happy. I choose not to hold grudges.

Would I have a direct confrontation and hash it out? Hash WHAT out? There's nothing to hash anymore. Perhaps I might bring up that things were tough and I felt disappointed that they had such terrible renters that they couldn't get rid of, but I wouldn't place the blame on my friends. I've dealt with renters before and some can be very difficult.

Would I be over it and go back to being tight friends? As soon as possible. If I get hit by a bus tomorrow, I want more love and friendship in my life than anger and resentment. I would forgive them immediately and let go of the past. They can't go back in time and change anything, so what's the point of punishing them now when you can choose to have friends instead?

Hmmmm....if I was the O. there and witnessing all of these things, I would probably call police, health dept--whatever applied to the horrible things going on. Not "my across the country neighbors" on FB! What they heck can they do?
If I were you, I'd be happy to have them back!

What exactly did you expect them to do from a crossed the country? Did you except them to kick out tenants who pay their rent on time just on the say so of neighbors? Did the rental agency find that the tenants were breaking any actual rules set forth in their rental agreement or by the home owners association? When you have a rental you can not just kick people out once the lease is signed without a legitimate reason, and the neighbors not liking who moved in is not one. Unless they were somehow breaking the law or their lease, your neighbors had no grounds to break a lease. And when they said they would try to rent to one family, well that also is not in their control. A family may say they plan to stay 3 or 4 years, but who can really know that far ahead what the further may hold, once the first lease is up the tenants have every right to move.

I say you need to let this go and treat your neighbors with the same respect you would have before, it does not seem like they did anything wrong really, and what you seemed to have wanted them to do (kick out legal renters) is not something they could legally do in most cases. Also, if they were a crossed county then someone else (whatever agency they were using) was vetting these renters, not them. I think you need to learn more about how it works when you have a rental in a state you are not living in before judging their actions.

I really liked Leigh's suggestion in its entirety.

I would let the past go... and yes, talk to them about hiring a property manager. My girlfriend does this work; they have it written into rental contracts that there will be an inspection every six months. She has found SO many things wrong/broken that tenants do not report; some of these issues, if left unresolved, can cause more permanent property damage. I'm sure your old neighbors are going to get an eyeful once they move back into the home they left in good shape. They likely won't want to have to do this level of reparation again.

Welcome them back home. Tell,them how much you missed them. They were cross country so. Dry hard to understand what was going on. Do not let it ruin a good friendship. Have a feeling they will understand upon entering home. At one point you can mention the renters but in passing. It is all water under the bridge. Don't let this ruin your friendship.

I assume they moved out of town for a job situation. They were tight on money I assume. They really should have used a real estate broker - i don't think there's any reporting to the IRS - but that being said they probably really needed the money, couldn't handle the property from a distance and should have used a real estate person to handle the rental at the very minimum.

That's now water under the bridge. I don't think you can magically erase your thoughts and feeling of betrayal like magic so I don't think you'll ever be BFF's again. But let's face it - they weren't living through the rental neightbors from hell - you were. (Did you happen to take photos? - If so I'd show them to her if the conversation ever get to that place.) You won't accomplish anything by asking them to understand - they won't and you'll feel worse.

I'd count on just being cordial neightbors "Hi Sally - so nice to see you back in the nieghborhood - I hope everyone's well!" Then move along into your house. Fortuantley it's Winter & cold so you have an excuse. You probalby won't need to talk to them until April / May. My goal is to be polite, smile and keep it short.

i'd take it as starting off an old relationship on a new foot and see how it develops, without a lot of preconceived expectations.
they lived across the country. i'm not sure why you think they were personally screwing you over by not overseeing every aspect of their tenants from thousands of miles away. every landlord would love a guarantee of thoughtful, responsible tenants but it's not the way the world works.
so if it were i, i'd be glad that friends are moving back in and that the transient tenant situation is over, and i certainly wouldn't precipitate a confrontation. i can't imagine what good you think that will do, especially if you really mean it when you say you don't want drama or feuds.
people who actually don't like drama don't plan to fire it up.
khairete
S.

Friends are so hard to find. Let it go and offer to help with the repairs (labor, not costs).

Without understanding what the offense was, I would say that I'd treat them like any other family moving in and let us get to know each other all over again.

I have a question: Did they ask you to keep them posted on all the activity going on at their house, or did you just do it on your own, because you were friends and concerned neighbors? If you did it on your own and expected them to maintain the property according to your standards, then I think that you are responsible for your disappointment. Even though you kept up with each other, not seeing them every day or living in the house with them, you likely don't have the full understanding of why they chose to handle things the way that they did. If you know them to be pretty decent people, then give them the benefit of the doubt that they did the best they could with what they had. That's what friendship is, and it does need to go both ways.

Good luck to you.

Either way, you're going to be neighbors again and might get a chance to hash it out once you get to know each other again.

I'd be glad they were coming back and things were going to be good again. If they move again, I'd suggest to them they get a company to handle their rental while they are gone so those things don't happen again. And if it were bad enough, I would have called the police while they were gone - to help them out.

Well, since ESP isn't really well excepted as common how were they supposed to know that each and every one of those tenants weren't the perfect match for you as their neighbors?

It's not like they could predict the future and if their bills weren't being paid they had to rent to who applied. If you didn't like the people they were renting to then why didn't you find your perfect renter for them and help them get together. If you had helped them find awesome perfect renters then you'd not have had these issues.

If they are truly friends then I imagine they'd have been grateful for you to find someone you could live next door to.

Could have helped the situation, did you try? Or just report what a bad job they were doing from across the country?

I think it's hard to say bc we don't know if this behaviour was out of character for them or you were good friends bc they're fun and maybe your kids were friends but there was always that nagging feeling they were kind of selfish people... We love our next door neighbors and I truly think they are good people. Really good. So if it happened with them, I'd feel differently than some other neighbors who I enjoy and are friends with but we also think they're rather flakey and self centered. So if these people are the latter, then I'd just be nice and friendly but not rekindle the actual friendship. If they're the former, I'd try to consider if they were in over their heads and be very welcoming and some day bring up how hard it was on you. Did they realize that? See what they have to say. The fact that they were hiding the income makes me think maybe they're not such good people but I don't know.. Last option is this was a 10+ year super close friendship like you were family and just confronting it is acceptable bc you're that close. Hard to say from sitting here...

I say welcome them back with open arms and at some point, have the conversation with them. I just wouldn't lead with it. There is a good chance these tenants didn't leave the property in good order so they will come to understand all too well what sort of people they made you live next to all on their own. Karma!

I would be civil.
They were across the country. You don't know their financial situation. It maybe that a rent check was more important then your complaints. At the same time, the rents were adults responsible for their own behavior, and if there is a rental agreement in place, there are steps that have to happen to remove a bad renter. Maybe that is why there were 10 different people.

It's not like you can call and say 'there are 2 people laying on the lawn' and they'll be kicked out by morning. They have to be given 30 days notice to get out.

Ok. Here's the thing. Your friends were across country. They may have had family occasionally checking in but the family really had no power to do anything.

Additionally, I don't see any eviction-worthy offenses anywhere in your post. Did they annoy you and frustrate you? Did they do things that you personally wouldn't do? Yes. Did they devalue the house and intentionally cause destruction to it? But as to someone sleeping on the front lawn and not having proper supervision to the children of the renters... those are just tattletaling issues. You can't evict someone for "being odd" if they had a contract and you can't evict someone because the neighbors think they're bad or annoying.

Your friends weren't required to use a go-between company either. It would have been a good idea, but I would hardly call it irresponsible. If they ever have to do this again, they'll probably do it differently and draw up a better contract.

Lastly. The renters are the ones that were bad neighbors and upset you. Your friends are not the ones that behaved badly. They had their hands tied. They didn't betray you, but they did screw themselves over. What sucks is that you put yourself in a position of being their spy, which meant you probably paid those renters a lot more attention than you might have otherwise and you thought of that house as if it were yours.

I would welcome your friends home with open arms. Tell them how happy you are that they're back and the terrible renters are gone. I wouldn't help them make repairs to the yard or house if they ask you, though. This is a mess they have to clean up on their own so that they can really see just how bad it got.

In this instance, you were too good of a friend. It ended up causing you way too much anxiety.

I agree 100% with Southern Yankee's answer.