Nothing Is Right Attitude in 4 Year Old

She may be a little young to introduce the concept that nothing in life is perfect. But that is perfectly okay. Try it anyway.

As far as the breakfast "eat it or go hungry". Kids will not starve themselves. They may skip a couple of meals but they will eat when they are hungry enough. ------ And no snacks between meals.

This might be a good time to introduce the mantra: You get what you get, and you don't have a fit.

Or give her two choices. She's learning that she has choices in the world around her, so let her make a few! Example "This piece of pie or a bowl of cereal?"

Do you just let her throw a tantrum for 30 minutes? Mine would be doing that in his room. Not wanting something is O. thing, throwing a 15-30 minute tantrum then STILL getting the thing is another....

I've been in this 'complaining' situation. Here's what I do when it's food-related:

I ensure that there are at least two things on the plate, one of which I know Kiddo will usually eat. For example, if I'd served pie for breakfast, I'd also include a few thick slices of cheese for a protein with it. Then, when the complaining starts, I'd remind (only once) that "you do have another choice". Then if it continues (only once) "What's on your plate is what I have for you. This is breakfast." Said in an emotionally-neutral voice (not mad or exasperated, but just 'hey, dude, it's a fact of life that cheese and pie are what's on the menu-- like it or lump it, makes no nevermind to me-- this is the attitude you want to convey back to her.)

At this point, ball is in her court. More complaining/tantrums and I would just take my son to his room. "You know, you can be in here now. You have five more minutes to eat if you change your mind". Put timer on and leave. No threatening, no warning that the timer is going to ding soon, are you sure you don't want....? None of it. Then, no food until the next appointed meal. Period. I don't re-serve what's offended, just put out what you would usually have for morning snack or lunch and do not bring up the tantrum again.

Where I would give choices also: let her pick out her silverware and plate. Let her choose a reasonable cup and 'milk or water?" Keep the choices very simple, down to two. This has worked well for us.

If you are looking for books, too, I'd highly recommend JoAnne Nordling's "Taking Charge: Caring Discipline that works at Home and At School". Letting this problem of complaining/never satisfied be hers to deal with (instead of yours or husband's) is key to her philosophy. Kids need to be given opportunities to work it out on their own. I've found this to be very true. Good luck!

Oh, and the last part of 'four', the last few months before turning five, were quite a challenge. They seem to get wiggy on the cusp of birthdays, esp. 2-3 months beforehand.

Wow, if she didn't want the pie then why didn't you just take it away from her? She's old enough to know she can either eat it or not, and big enough to pour herself a bowl of cereal instead.
As far as throwing a fit for 30 minutes, I wouldn't put up with that. Send her to her room and let her cry it off in there with the door closed. CALMLY explain to her that she can come out when she has calmed down and is ready to use her manners and regular voice. Then go about your business. Don't engage her, don't check on her, wait for her to calm down and come out on her own. Tantrums are like monsters, the more you feed them (give them attention) the bigger they get :(

It is fairly typical, she is old enough to speak, but not old enough to understand what she wants or needs.

She wants to be able to do things herself, but is not totally right there.

These tantrums, need to be treated like tantrums. That means, she needs to "use her regular voice" " use her manners" maybe even, have a time out in her room to figure out exactly what she wants and find her regular voice.

Would you be willing to allow her to cut her own slice of pie? The knife does not need to be sharp, she could use a plastic knife.

Or have a place she can reach to pick her own breakfast. Cereal bars, fruit, ect.

She is just wanting something she can control. Ths is fine, but she needs to learn, we do not understand whinning, or tantrums, so she needs to learn to take breath and tell you what she wants.

My DD is not yet 4 but very close, and a friend is dealing with a 4 that has tantrums like you describe. It's maddening. I think it's worse than 2s!

But, like the 2s, you have to ignore the behavior, curb it with consequences when appropriate, and remind her how to be good. The other day DD decided she was just going to be a banshee and I told her she needed to stop or she'd have to go to her room (tantrums do not get an audience here). She went to her room (I put her there) and she screamed for a bit for my attention but when she got nothing, she stopped. After she was quiet for a few minutes, I went to check on her and we talked and I let her out.

Right now, DD is also in a "everyone is wrong" phase, even if SHE is wrong and it's driving DH crazy. I think that all these behaviors are a next step in their understanding of the world but also understanding that they only have x control over it. Does your DD also like to play games where she's in charge?

I will also put a timer on and say, "DD, you have 10 minutes to eat that waffle and then we're going." She eats the waffle or she goes hungry.

Hang in there. Now I know why another friend says her daughter barely made it to 5!

THere is an old school child psychologist named John Rosemond who does a weekly column. Here is what he says to do in this kind of situation:
You tell your daughter that you called her doctor and he said that she was doing this because she was most likely too tired. So to fix this you are going t put her to bed early. Each night after dinner send her to bed. Of course she will hate this but that is the point. It is important to do this for at least a week and do not budge when she begs you to let her out and promises not to whine anymore. Supposedly this is a surefire cure for behavior like your daughters. IT may take a couple times but it will be worth it in the long run. Having a tantrum at 4yo is entirely unnacceptable and points to much worse problems down the road. It is good that you are actively trying to stop it.

It's very normal for children of that age, so rest assured it really isn't anything you have done or are doing. In my case...it's my 5 year old.

Choices...offer up a few set a timer and when the timer goes off she has to make a choice or go without.

As soon as the meltdown starts swoop her up and place her in a spot that you have predetermined; a room, a chair whatever works for your family.

Do not engage the child, allow her to do her thing and do not try to make it better.

Once calm explain to her why she was put in her spot. Then move on with your day. Repeat as often as needed. For some it works miracles in days, other can be a lot more stubborn so be prepared to do it a lot.

We've been dealing with meal time issues here too. It's been a combination of things my daughter does. I suppose it can be boiled down to "complaining", it's too hot, it's too lumpy, it's green, it's not green...OY! What works for us is the first complained gets nipped. "Then don't eat it and go to your room. Now." We get her up and take her to her room for 5 mins., come back and ask if she's ready to eat with out complaint. Repeat only a total of three times then throw the food out and it's bed time.

It's been going well...now she's using the "blabber" technique...she'll sit there and prattle on and on and on, in the course of a meal she'll have maybe two bites of something and by the time everyone else is done she's ready to go too. We're tired of telling her to hush and eat. So far the no treats/dessert if the food isn't eaten isn't curbing this.

Just to clarify, mine is 5 moving towards 6.

Edit: Just saw the timer suggestion..might help us with the adorable little blabber mouth. Will suggest it to husband.

Honestly? I would give her the power to make it "right." Tell her that since she isn't happy with the way you are doing things, than she can get her own breakfast. (I realize this may sound like a lot of responsibility for her age and a lot of potential mess but you can scale things down and simplify things for her to make this something she can do.)

And yes, if she is not done eating when everyone else is done, give her an extra minute or two, then tell her breakfast is over with and she'll have to wait until lunch time. If she is having a full out tantrum, then remove her from the table until she calms down and is ready to eat. If she misses breakfast, then maybe she'll do better tomorrow.

My daughter does similar things...she likes to have all attention on her at all times, and when she doesn't get it, she'll take whatever attention she can, even if it is bad attention.

Good luck.

www.ahaparenting.com...Dr. Laura Markham has a great newsletter -- loving and gentle and effective...

First thing I thought of was maybe a " Big change" has happened in her life and its stressing her out. ( did you move, start a new daycare) She doesn't know how to relay the stress but to try to be controlling in her world. Maybe getting bullied at daycare or in the neighborhood. Maybe just not getting quality time with you or really tired. She might just be testing the waters, in that case don't let her have many options. Today we are having ___________ for breakfast and we are going to be thankful for that. If you give her an inch she will try to take a mile.

Blessings

It's a simple one sentance phrase in our house Ezekiel 2:8

"Open your mouth and eat what I am giving you"

It took a few weeks of constant reminder but any time they start to complain we say this and it ends...they know that this is the only answer they will get out of us for their complaints or wishes.

She's doing it because here is no serious consequence for doing it. All kids do it (or try it and only quit if it's nipped). She's totally normal. How was she allowed to throw a 30 minute tantrum (or even a five minute one) in the first place, much less still get to eat her pie after? How is she allowed to get away with acting like this?

NEVER ignore. 4 years old is the very tail end of you being able to nip this-some say five is too late when it comes to molding good character-so get serious right away with her and get dad on the very same page.

So, you give your child something, and they say something knit picky about it: Your response, "That is not polite, watch it." and proceed with your day while they eat what you gave them (or whatever they're being spoiled about-actually, in my house, they don't have to eat, but they CANNOT be bratty). Any sign of beginning a tantrum, talking back, pouting, --whatever-- past a calm warning: Firm discipline calmly and immediately doled with a reminder of right behavior will fix that right away and all you'll need is a warning the next time once she gets that you are consistent. Then it will become her habit to be respectful and gracious. None of my three would have gotten away with five minutes of that behavior. I treat them respectfully and kindly, and expect the same in return, but it doesn't come naturally to kids. Most kids I know these days act the way you describe at 4.

Get the book "Back to Basics Discipline" by Janet Campell Matson. And fast!!! Have your husband read it too.

I am not a short order cook. A minimum of three items are served at every meal. Ex. Eggs, bacon, toast. You don't have to eat all of it, but this is the meal...next meal or snack is at 1030...currently it is 7am, your choice. Snack...carrots, string cheese, apple. Your child will not starve, ic she has rude comments she may then do a time out and an extra chore. I can send them to their rooms as there is not a single electronic item there. There are clothes,books,and bed. This is where you are the parent. In our family we do sundaes for dinner if no one that month lost priviledges more than once. They help each other not get into trouble. Good luck be the parent not the friend.

at my house I solved that by declaring anyone acting like that MUST be overtired, therefore if possible they went right back to their bed, but if we as a family had somewhere to go then we moved their bedtime way early and made sure they also got a nap.

Let me guess, she gave up naps within the last year? Or her night time sleep dropped in amount. She should still be getting 11 to 12 hours at night and another 1 1/2 to 3 hours of nap each day. If you start skipping them then you get what I call the oil change affect. Naps are the kids' oil change. Just like in a car if you miss the oil change you won't notice it right away, you may miss a few of them and not notice any difference, but then one day the engine will cease and you will be in trouble. Same with naps and sleep.

In all my years of doing child care I have found that good sleep, enough sleep, solve at least 75% of these problems.

Let her tantrum about it, or anything else she tantrums about.
Tell her "when you are done with your tantrum, let me know..." then go about your business or sit and read a magazine.
Don't flinch.
Don't scream back or raise your voice or sound irritated.
Say it in a matter of fact voice.

Kids WILL deflate, on their own.

Then, tell her, that it is HER CHOICE, to tantrum or not. But you will not be controlled by it.
She is 4, she is not 2.
Tell her, she has a choice of what to eat and that is lucky.
Then teach her, how to HELP making it or in getting it.
My son at 4 years old could even make his own scrambled eggs from start to finish, with my supervision. Because I taught him. He can even make his own cereal and pour himself some milk or juice from the fridge.
So in essence, you need to TEACH a child... HOW TO trouble shoot, what their frustration or irk, is. And how to say it and then, what they can do about it.

Give your girl, SKILLS in how to do things.
Inform her that she can tantrum... OR, not.
But you will not be controlled by it. Nor will you let her tantrum upset the whole house.
Then stick to it.
So she goes 15 minutes. Fine. Let her go on and on.
A child will deflate on their own.

I have even told my kids (when they are being like that knowingly) "Okay, go ahead, scream... let it ALL out. Scream. When you are done, let me know..." then I walk away and do my things.

4 years old is hard.
The book "Your Four Year Old" is good. Amazon has it. It simply tells about what each age is like. Although written years ago, it is still very common sense and pertinent.
About each age and their development.

You ALSO need to teach a child "coping skills" for frustrations.
A child does not come to this world with knowing those skills already.
It is taught. Some adults don't even know that.
And teach her how to problem-solve. Kids don't know that either, unless taught. Some adults don't even know that.
There are MANY ways, to handle frustrations and how to solve them.
Teach a child that... and in time, they will get better at it.

I do not have a "we don't get upset rule" in my house. Meaning, even adults get upset. Its an emotion. We all have it. We all need to vent. BUT... I teach my kids... the words for their feelings, how to say it in a more palatable way, that they CAN tell me anything.... and that, its okay to have a grumpy feelings... BUT they know HOW to cope and problem solve. Because, I teach them how. And at each age stage... they get more articulate about it.

And, sometimes a kid just needs to nap!
My son is 5 and he will still nap.
When he is overtired or tired, he turns into a Troll. When he is like that, I KNOW he is tired.
But he WILL say "Mommy I'm tired... I want to nap..." and he does.