No Respect

Has he been tested for either ADD or ADHD? If he has this, he really can't help his behavior and once on the proper meds, you will see a huge difference in him. The meds will allow him to be who he really is, without the distractions. Good luck.
D. N.

Parents should always put up a united front when correcting a child and never argue about that in front of the child. You both should sit down and agree on which approach to take and usually a time out is one minute per year of age of child. Be consistant in whatever you consider and remember "little children little problems, bigger children bigger problems" My oldest always called me the "mean mom" and now raises her 3 children the EXACT SAME way, lol.

What a situation... still, good for you for not giving up or giving in. It's so good to be able to bring things to the Mamasource community for a reality check when others in our life try to pretend that things like this arent important and of great consequence.

What I turn to a lot is taking things away. Our kids have too many things anyway... but my 4-year-old is far more upset by items being confiscated than by time-outs. I put them on top of the fridge where he can still see them, and he gets them back when he does something above-and-beyond good or can explain why they were taken away (what he did wrong). He kicks something, his favorite shoes go away. He throws a ball at his brother, the ball goes. He won't listen, I take whatever might be distracting him.

I might be wrong about all this -- it can create a power struggle. But when I'm at a loss it gives me a way to be the grown-up, the rule-maker. And it gives him the chance to "find a solution" (that's our new mantra) -- ie, apologize, show me he can be a better listener, etc.

I think I'd start taking my husband's things, too, as it sounds like he's acting like a 4-year-old. But maybe that's better left to discuss with a marriage counselor. It's awful when people act like there are no consequences, when in fact hurting your loved one's feelings is a very strong consequence -- one that people often don't see.

Unless you and your husband get on the same train in raising your child, things will get worse.

Even if you might have talked to your husband about this before....Keep your cool and sit him down again when your son is not around and tell him what is going on with your sons behavior. Explain your son's behavor is getting worse because instead of backing you, he's underminding you right in front of the child. If he doesn't respect what you say and do, why should the child? Tell him clearly that he is actually teaching your child that he doesn't have to respect you. Tell him how this makes you feel..

If hes willing, explore with your husband, his reasons for doing this to you. Go to couples therapy about this if you have to. I tend to think it's the core of the problem.

Once you both have a good understanding of what's going on in your husband's head about his own behavior with this... you both need to discuss and find middle ground with how to deal with your childs bad behaviors. Both of you need to stand together on this...be supportive and back each other up in front of the child. When one is dealing with the child and the other disagrees...it should never be an open discussion in front of the child but in fact it should wait to be discussed when your alone together.

If that doesn't do it....

When ever possible, have all complaints about your childs behavior be said directly to your husband.. If that's not possible, Make a list of the behaviors and the list of complaints....It might help your husband to realize what he is doing isn't right if at the end of the day, you go over that list with with him and ask him how he is going to teach his son that this behavior is wrong. If he responds with anything like "Well he doesn't act like that with me"...tell him, well he is with others and with me and it needs to be corrected and stopped and because of your underminding, and as long as that continues, he can't and wont learn any better from me. Insist on knowing how he is going to fix it.
Hopefully he'll be willing to discuss with you some other options that might bring around change with the problem with or with out professional help...

Your son doesn't respect you because his father doesn't either. Dad gets away with it, so why shouldn't he? Seriously. You need to have a conversation with your husband when your son is not around. Either he helps you by upholding your attempts to discipline or he stays out of it altogether. I would suggest professional support, but he isn't pulling this at school- meaning he can control his behavior and select his "target".

Here's what I would do... strip his room of everything. I mean everything except his bed and a lamp. Make it clear to him that the missing items are not necessities (yes, a school-aged child will understand this). His compliance with your requests (including going to time out) will earn his items back. It's up to him how quickly his items return.

Make sure to reinforce immediately when he is compliant. If you are going out of the house, take a few of his "things" in your bag (book, small toys, etc). If he complies with your requests, give his item back. He'll get the message very quickly. Essentially, food, water and shelter are necessary, the rest is earned.

You have a bigger issue to deal with when it comes to your husband, but your son is young enough to change his behavior.

Hi K.,

Sorry you are having such a tough tine with your son AND husband. What's up with him undermining your authority in front of your son? Not Good!! Thats teaching him that if mommy punishes me, I'll call Daddy and he'll out her in her place which he does. Not good at all. You really need to sit down and have a chat with your husband. My husband pulled something similar to this and I told him if i'm not doing a good job, you do everything. Next thing I know, he's putting out daughter on time-outs and yelling the way I was. lol Its always easy to criticize when you're on the outside looking in. He'll soon see that he's raising a the boy to be a menace and rude/disrespectful to his mother and other. Good luck!

Unfortunately the problem isn't your son...it's your husband. When it comes to discipline you need to back each other up. If you put your son in time out then he needs to stay there. And if your husband takes him out of time out, I'd put him back in and tell your son "I don't care what Daddy says, plant your butt till I say you can get up." Then you need to sit down with your husband and explain to him in as small words (since the big ones might confuse him) as possible that he is teaching your son to be disrespectful to his mother and this is not o.k. That as parents we need to support each other and correcting me in front of our son is not helping. If you have a problem with my discipline speak to me about it later or in another room. Stand up for yourself. As for your son, if you allow him to treat you this way...he will. You both need to read this book, SOS Help for parents. It will help. And yes, he is 4 and sometimes they are very trying, but unless you and hubby learn to back each other up this will not get any better.

In my opinion its your husband that doesnt respect you and he seems to enjoy it when your son sides with him. You need to have a serious conversation with hubby when your son is not around. Demand respect from husband and son and tell your husband he has to back you up. Then write a list of rules you both expect son to follow. Tell hubby that when he is home he will be expected to enforce the rules. Explain the new rules to your son and then let his father discipline him, but make sure he sticks to the rules.
I also agree that your son needs positive attention which can be hard when you are over worked. Take time out of each day to do something fun with him. Dont use this time as a punishment or deny it as a punishment.
Above all you must demand respect from both husband and son.

It is normal for couples to disagree over parenting styles, however it is never OK to do it in front of the children. My husband and I have always backed each other up in this area and even if I disagreed with him I would tell him in private. Your husband is undermining you and I do not blame you for being upset. However, is it possible that you are to hard on your son. Maybe you can get a sitter go for a nice dinner and come up with a discipline strategy and a plan on how you will handle situations when they come up. This way you will both be prepared and able to handle things together. If you are not a united front then your marriage will turn into a good cop bad cop situation and in my opinion that is a recipe for disaster. Or course you son is pulling these stunts with you because he know he has his dad to back him up. Tell your hubby your son needs a parent not a friend and his behavior will backfire as your son grows up. Good luck!!

Call a parent meeting where you two agree to not disagree in front of your son. My husband and I always backed each other up in front of the children and then discussed different approaches and diagreeed in private. we were pretty much onthe same page discipline wise. a good book to read is james Dobson Dare to Discpline. I read this with my first and it gave sound practical advice that you can take the valuable parts and leave what does not fit in or modify as needed.
amodification is definitely what is needed in the way you are handling your son.
There was another book I read that talked about the importance of how little time we have to pack our children's bags for adulthood. By the time they are 11-12
the suitcase is pretty much packed and to think that most of the packing happens before the age of six.
Pack truthfulness and respect and manners all of these things that that book says all i needed to know i learned in kidergarten.
So I would say that if you do not turn this around you are in for worse as he gets older. parenting is work and put the work in now and you will have less to do later.

Asmy family says make them cry when they are young and they will not make you cry when they get old.
www.momztheboss.com

Hi K.,
The problem is your husband. He is letting your son know that you are not an authority figure, but your son's equal, and that your husband has authority over you. Your husband is being a bad husband to you and a bad parent.
Do not allow yourself to be corrected or your discipline to be over ruled. You don't need a referee to determine if your discipline is okay.
Some counselling might be needed here. If your husband does not learn to respect you and teach your son to respect you, you will have a big problem on your hands when he is not a cute little boy anymore - in 10 years, he'll be as big as you.
If other people see your son as badly behaved, then he probably is and your husband is the problem. If your son isn't taught that there are rules and consequences, he will run into big problems when he is expected to be obedient and respectful of a teacher, coach, scout leader. Your husband is doing your son no favors. Raising your children with discipline is a kindness It teaches them what is expected out in the world, and your husband should want your son to respect his mother.
If your husband is insistent on your son being raised in this way, then your choices are likely to be go along with your husband's way/give up all authority/be treated like a little girl or move on, and during your custodial time, discipline your son as you see fit.
Good luck

Hey K.,

I am sorry but I disagree with dianna,

I think the problem is YOU

When it comes to my kids I am the boss.

I refuse to let my husband end any TIME OUT I set in place.
I would never let him Override my parenting. Afterall mothers are the first teachers.

Not to mention it teaches your child to disregard you.

You are aware he is looking for attention, this means he needs MORE than what you are giving him OR that You need to try giving it in a diffrent way.

---

However your husband has a point,
HOW LONG are these proposed time outs,( you don't say)

Your son is 4.5 years old and you can not expect perfection and I honestly believe its unreasonable of you to expect him to be happy about staying in his time out.

My personal rule is as long as they stay where I've put them for the amount of time I say-- Then I don't care how much they cry and carry on.

Second the crime should fit the punishment.

That said, it sounds as if your time outs aren't working.

So try it my way.

Step one,- You give your child a GENTLE warning

Example: John Remember what mommy told you about NOT hitting. If you continue You will get a 5 minute time out.

step 2: A very FIRM warning.
JOHN Mommy SAID DO NOT HIT. THE next time you HIT you will go to bed for 5 minutes.

Step 3: John you are NOT listening, and you have hit the DOG
NOW you get a time OUT.

POINT to his room and say NOW GO TO BED.
and wait ( he will say no)

Then you physically get up and MOVE him to his room.

SET AN EGG TIMER for 5 MINUTES AND SAY
WHEN THE TIMER GOES OFF THEN YOUR TIME OUT IS OVER.

place it in an area where he can hear it, but not touch it.

and walk out of the room.

ignore him for these next 5 minutes unless he gets out of the room.

at which point you physically put him back in his bed and continue to wait.

When the alarm goes off, you go in there and say

ARE YOU READY TO BEHAVE?
He should say yes. ( he might say no)
But if he says yes, you say OK then, From now on there will be NO hitting. OK
( he should say OK)

Then you say because if you hit, you will get a time out.

and then you hugg him and kiss him and let him play

---

Please note he will hit again.

there is no cure , it just takes time for him to learn to be respectful.

What to do when he says NO:
OK If he says NO he is not ready to behave, he must stay in his bed til he says YES.
You walk out of the room and comeback in about a minute or 45 seconds later and ask again until he says yes.

Don't make the punishment last too long or he will resent you, and the time out will have NO effect.

----------

In addition you need to be positive about your child,
BE on his side.

Example: TELL people he is a good boy, and a good listener ( even if its not true) the important part is that he hears you say good things about him. Eventually he will aim to be well behaved just to prove you right.

Tell him the behavior you expect from him before he enters the store. SAY: JOHN Mommy expects you to be on your best behavior today, I know you can do this because your smart.
and I love you. I know you will make me proud. And if you behave well I will let you have a treat. ( and let him pick out the cereal or some cookies)

Remember he will start to act up if you take too long.
So don't sabotage him.

Go into the store with a plan for him to suceed.
getting just a few items.
and then give him his reward.
with the praise he is looking for.

You should also enroll him in a religious group.
Where he will be surrounded by kids with parents who are like minded. They will be a positive influence.

I am a Bahai and we offer FREE childrens classes.
Email me if you would like to attend and I can get you in contact with someone in your area.

Mom, I know what its like to have your hands full, and be busy all the time, But remember when it comes to kids, you get out of them what you put in,

Its not easy.
But you need to be positive and flexible.

Work around your child needs and NOT your wants.

Good luck
and hope this helps

M

Hi K.,

First of all, you're not alone. As children grow they continue to constantly test us to see what they can get away with.

In order to be sucessful you and hubby have to be on the same page. Discuss what punishment is appropriate for what types of behavior. It's okay if you don't agree, but then you MUST agree to honor each other's decissions. And never agrue in front of your son.

Everyone seems to think "Time Out" is the magic punishment. It didn't work on either of my daughters, one actually liked time out. If she did something wrong and I wanted to talk to her about it, she would rather escape and not deal with it.

Find a punishment that works for your child. Maybe it's canceling a trip to the park or making him do something he doesn't enjoy ie. helping you with a chore.

The most important thing (I learned this too late), is follow through with your "threats". If you calmly say "you need to play nice with the dog", and he doesn't try "if you don't play nice and you hit the dog you won't be able to watch tv after lunch", if he hits the dog then it's no tv, final.

On the other side, you mention he's getting attention, but appears that he's not getting enough or the kind that he needs. Try praising him more often when he exhibits good behavior. Ask him "what do you want to do"? Try doing different activities with him.

I'm guessing since you work part-time, you're the one that spends the most time with your son. You may not be able to change hubby, but you can change you and your son. You need to teach him, that you will not accept his bad behavior.

Good luck.

Hi K.,

After reading the responses before me, I agree with both sides:

You probably contributed to your son's behavior by not being as consistent and firm as needed every time, and by letting your husband get away with doing his thing. I know, because I had this problem. I was spending so many hours with my son that I was just giving way, and that resulted in a kid who was throwing temper tantrums - with me only. It took me months to correct the situation.

This being said, your husband undermining you is absolutely unacceptable. Parents can argue all they want about ow to raise and discipline their children - out of the children hearing. In their presence, it is absolutely essential for the parents to create a united front.

Maybe your husband might change his way of being when you tell him what he's teaching your son:
a) mom doesn't count, and shouldn't be respected and listened to
b) by extension, women in general should not be listened to and respected (if you don't believe me... kids learn how to respect women from the way their mothers are respected)
c) your son is learning that he can get away with anything, Daddy will always bail him out (quite problematic once your son reaches late teenage and the things he does become much more harmful.

c) is something that your husband may huff at - until your son reaches said teenage - but a) and b) are visible right now, and already in the way that he treats and ignores grand-mother.

I think you need to have a very firm conversation with your husband and make it clear that he has to change his behavior. And every time he reduces the time-out of consequence you put, counter-act to your son "no, this stands" and drag your husband out of the room and have an explanation. If you don't stand up to him now, both you parents and your son will pay for it later... Even if he doesn't do anything that causes a real problem, his behavior most definitely won't make him popular with his peers, and the later he learns that he can't get away with it, the more painful it will be.

Hope this helps.
K.

I completely agree w/ Dianna and Mary K. They both have good points. And yes - it's your husband that is the handful - not your son.

Fix it now - he will quickly be a disrespectful teenager. Get your husband on the same page - but definitely do not let him override your decisions. My husband doesn't always agree with me either - and sometimes it is just easier not to fight with him and let him do what he wants. But - when it comes to parenting - if we are not on the same page - I will address it directly with him and say - this is what I said... He has also told me that he thinks I am too strict. He is right in some respects and I have changed my approach some. But - these conversations are not undermining the other's parenting skills. Good luck!

Please, please run don't walk to a family counselor. Your husband is creating a monster and if you think its bad now wait until he's in his teens. The two of you need to be on the same page with the discipline or he will be uncontrolable both at home and in school. Counseling was the best thing we did, it saved our marriage and our daughter. Good luck to you.

Hi K.,
In my opinion, respect is learned from the parents, and your child has none, this should have been taught very early on. You need to talk with your husband and get things straightened out with him about parenting and discipline. You need to be on the same page, and you need to tell him that you are not willing to continue with having to deal with an unruly and rude child by yourself.
Leave your husband alone with him for a full day. Go to your parents, or other family or friends for the day and not check up with them. See how the child acts with just his father around.
Then call your local school district or children and youth organization, usually through the courthouse, and find out about "Magic 123". MY local school sends out flyers at least once a year for these seminars. It teaches you to discipline your child, both you and your husband need to attend
If your hubby doesnt want to compromise then I would seek counceling for the two of you. You need to be on the same page, or at least for him to allow you to discipline the child your way, without interfering. This takes communication!!

Hi K.
Were you too hard on your son? Causing your husband to over react, and intervene. Now that he has taken that role can't get out of it. It has happened before.
What about your husband, does he respect you? Where do kids learn who to respect? From the ones that are teaching it!!! Parents teach who to respect by how much they respect the other parent. You may disagree with your husband but he too must look out for your son's well being. So how do you respect him?
Now, have you thought about counseling? you? your son? family?
Who watches your son when you are at work?
There is a mother complex as well, our son was diagnosed with it, after counseling during high school. Looking back I wish we had done it long before. By the way, dad's don't always cause it.
Dad's go about all things differently. Relax the control, people should not judge you because of your child's actions. As you should not say, "boy she must be a bad mom." Right? All kids are different and they all need different types of discipline.
Is it possible that your husband thinks that everyone relaxing will help your family dynamic, which will allow everyone's respect for each other to grow.
I know this will be perhaps very different advice than others have given, but it is an approach that may just be an answer.
God bless you and all you do
K. SAHM married 38 years --- adult children 37,33, and twins 19

I'm wondering a few things here. You mentioned you can't take him to his grandma's. Why isn't he getting attention here? Seems rather odd. Are you and Grandma visiting each other and ignoring the boy? He shouldn't have the opportunity to get into things if you're visiting WITH him, not just him being in the background somewhere. Were you raised with the "children should be seen and not heard" mentality? That one doesn't work! Perhaps having a visit in the park with Grandma would be more appropriate where he can keep busy.

Obviously your current methods aren't working. These kind of kids need lots of attention. It can be very draining but it's crucial. Take him out without the father and spend one-on-one time doing something he likes to do or teach him something new like a sport.

Sometimes a new skill will really help. Dance class, sports, etc will give him confidence in himself and give you a reason to praise him. Look for every little thing you can to praise him. He sounds like he's bored.

Honestly I don't see much of a future for the three of you together in this situation. If your husband is open to counseling and you don't nag him about what is said in counseling you might have a chance but clearly he doesn't respect you and you want to do things your way and he wants his way. Neither you or your husband can have your own way! The boy is confused. You need to set some guidelines about how to raise your child together and meet in the middle. Come up with some rules and support each other ALL the time in front of the boy. Have your disagreements when he's in bed. Lastly, don't give too much importance to what other people think or do. If he was acting up in school too I'd think that he has an allergy or chemical intolerance which is very common these days and largely undiagnosed. Of course at school he's busy all the time. I still wouldn't discount a brain problem. See if you can get some of Dr. Daniel Amen's books about the brain. Quite enlightening. Take a few days for vacation alone and read. Create a plan. You can't think clearly when you're right in the situation. Make your vacation a few days longer than you'd like to be away and give yourself time to think and miss your child. If you come home happy and don't immediately become the disciplinarian it could change the dynamics of the situation for the better. Talk to your spouse on the phone before you come home about how you want to change things and come to a MUTUAL agreement.