New Member Is Ruining Our Homeschool Group!

do you have any really assertive moms who could let her know several of you feel this way. i would NOT let one M. ruin the group. do others feel this way?

I agree that a set of guidelines should be put in writing and given to the new members so they know what's up. If they dont like it they will go elsewhere.

I once heard a speaker say that the person who is the biggest pain is often the one IN the biggest pain. I was in leadership of a MOPS group at that time that had a few members like the woman you are describing. Meditating on that thought, inspired me to take a close look at those women's situations, and i realized it was true. The germaphobe was dealing with an alcoholic and abusive husband, and had good reasons to feel discouraged and angry at the world. I started to pray for her and it let me see her in a new way. Yes, I would let the offending person know that the group did things a certain way and they were not going to change to suit her personal preference. But I would not confront her on a one-one-one basis, but have another senior member of the group with me. And approach it from a standpoint of helping her to assimilate into the group. But I can guarantee that if you look a little more closely at her situation, you may see someone who is socially isolated with few friends. If working with someone like that is not part of your group's purpose, find another Mom's group that would be willing to deal with someone in pain like that and refer her to them. That would be a win-win for everyone.

Maybe now is a good time to get guidelines in writing for new families. Then when someone inquires, you can give them something to read and say "this is how we do things, get to know us and decide if this is something you want to be a part of."

But since she's already in, you can try to address this issue similarly, with a overview on how you do things, how it works in your group, and suggestions for her to deal with problems. " we are a considerate group that tries to do things in a certain way that aims for the best interest of the grouped a whole. We label our food, we schedule multiple outings to offer choices, and we recognize that everyone is really doing the best they can... The spirit of this group is open and compassionate..."

Perhaps you can draft something in writing, or someone brave can have a conversastion with her-- even in the vein of "you often seem unhappy and frustrated with how things work. How are YOU feeling about the group?"
Good luck!

OK. This person obviously has no manners in general, and I'm not on board with handling her with kid gloves when she has no problem scolding others. New or not. If she can dish it, she can take it.

I would let her know that being new, it's understandable she may not feel like labeling ingredients, but expecting everyone to change the rules for her is not logical. Period. Don't back down. She doesn't have to label her dish, but no one else has to eat it either, and you all will proceed with the norm.

Also let her know, that being new, she may feel obliged to scold people for having kids who get the flu, but that's not how your particular group has been operating all along. It could have been her child, and going forward, she should be courteous, or she should leave the group if she is not in agreement with that.

Also, being new, she may not yet understand that people attend activities as they are able, and no one has them custom ordered to their own schedule. If that doesn't work for her, again, she can leave.

Hopefully, if she really can't deal with everyone not bending to her will, she'll shove off. But don't give into her ludicrous demands or be nice to her about this bad behavior. She sounds like a major high maintenance jerk.

I just joined a homeschool group, total newbie with kids younger than everyone else's, and the way you operate is exactly the same, and I would not dream of acting like that. Most normal people wouldn't. You're not obliged to take on a trouble maker just because she's too uptight to deal with any other school scenario.

I HOPE SOMEONE ELSE CC'd everyone on the list thanking the new mom profusely for the heads up of the sudden attack of the flu!

As far as the allergies go... lol... THIS rational thinking person doesn't find them stupid! A person can be allergic to ANYTHING. Aside from the "big" well known (nuts, shellfish, dairy, etc) ones here's a short list of *anaphalaxis* causing food allergies in my smallish circle of friends, co-op families (about 40 families...small since some local groups have over 300 families) & myself:
- cumin
- onions
- garlic
- celery
- carrots
- capsicum (tabasco and many kinds of peppers)
- watermelon
- grapes & raisins
- bananas
- apples
- strawberries
- rice
- eggs
- gelatin
There are also people with less severe allergies (hives, numbness, swelling) and intolerances (vomiting, diarrhea, hallucinations... lactose & sulfites in wine being 2 supercommon ones) and diseases (celiacs, diabetes), as well as people who keep vegetarian (various forms), kosher, halal, for personal or religious reasons. ((I'm the one allergic to watermelon, btw. I had the BEST gaspacho last summer. It almost killed me. I had to snort benedryl ... since my throat closed up... on my way to the hospital.))

The EASIEST way to deal with monthly potlucks is exactly as you do: everyone lists out the ingredients -or prints the recipe. There are a few people who NEVER share their recipes... so they bring things like chips or drinks so they don't have to compromise their beliefs either :). A few people got snarky about that UNTIL a few others point out that it's as rude to be snarky to those people's personal choices as it is to be snarky to those who choose to be vegetarian, or follow the dictates of a religion. IN FACT a bylaw that got made was that NO ONE's food choices were to be made fun of or questioned outside of curiosity.

I agree... it's time for bylaws to be created for your group as it's growing. I would strongly recommend 1 of 2 options

OPTION ONE

I would suggest THREE meetings. NONE secret.

1) All members over 1 year joined to write out the old rules that may largely be unspoken

2) ALL member rule brainstorming session

3) ALL member group ratification session

From experience:
- no rule is to be set in stone until the 3rd session (even old ones)
- have an email list for the brainstorming session -a few weeks out- and
a) include the list of old rules (if you or your child becomes sick shortly after an outing or group activty to please mail the group as a heads up, since these things happen... all potluck dishes to have all ingredients listed or to bring store bought food with ingredient list.... anyone is welcome to post an activity OR to post a 'seeking interest for an activity' if there are multiple options... deadlines for advance notice (like by the 15th of the month for publication in the following month's calendar)...all 'short notice' (aka just found out about cool thing that is happening before the calendar gets mailed out) "festival next weekend!" type to be mailed out on the yahoo group list... any "started talking about an outing/ class etc" to be mailed out to the group for either the calendar or short notice list

b) 1 person set as the secretary who lists EVERY suggestion out in certain categories (like food, classes, park days, communication, etc.) and emails out the list 1 week before the brainstorm session... even if they are repeeats... so people can peruse them before the brainstorming session.

c) goal set for rules to be decided upon by end of brainstorming session

d) ratification session to be when new packet is handed out.

OPTION 2

Just have the old members write everything down and create a packet of rules (that include the unspoken rules) to be handed out to all new families.

This is by far the "easiest" but comes along with the biggest possibility of hurt feelings AND missing out on GOOD ideas from new members

I second Kate B's suggestions. Some people are just easily irritated and inconvenienced and don't have any problems voicing it. And they don't even realize how offensive they sound.

I agree with your view that if she makes people uncomfortable she's not right for the group. After months and months of stress and trying to make things work, I had to ask a family to leave my daycare because I never felt like they were satisfied with the level of care we provided for their son. It was one crazy thing after another. Strangely though, when I asked them to go for the very reasons that they seemed dissatisfied they were surprised and said , "on the contrary, we are VERY happy with the care of our son!!" Sooooo, if you do confront her about her comments be prepared for her to defend herself, and if you really want her to leave have a straight forward way of asking her to.

Good luck~ sounds like a sticky one.

It sounds as if you already don't want her as part of the group, so in all fairness, yes, I would talk to her and let her know you're unhappy with her actions and will ask her to leave if she doesn't change. Be prepared for her to fight back though, as nothing she's doing is against the rules.

I think this is her "style," she's always been this way, "offensive," "disrespectful," and forthright, and you should address her comments and actions at the time they take place, giving her the reasons why they're unacceptable. Maybe she doesn't perceive or understand things the way you all do, but I don't think she should be banished because of that. Personally, I'd instead accept the challenge of helping her along : )

You may already be doing some of these things, but you should be putting out a monthly calendar with dates and schedules. FOR THE GROUP.
If someone can't make something, that's their prerogative. Others can suggest activities or try to schedule something on their own outside the established calendar as long as it doesn't conflict with something already scheduled.

I think you do need a set of established rules or you will have an anarchy on your hands.
It should be noted that out of consideration for others, you should notify one another if a child becomes ill. As far as labeling food, all that's necessary really is to note if the recipe contains wheat, eggs, dairy, nuts, shellfish.

Some people want to be included and don't know how to go about it tactfully. And, there are people, (not sure if this is the case) who feel that the moment they walk in a room or join a group, etc, the world is supposed to revolve around them.
There's always room for improvement and suggestions should be welcome, but ultimately what's good for the group as a whole takes priority over individual preferences.
You should all meet to discuss these things and if a parent doesn't feel they can go with the flow of the group, they have the option of not attending. It's not mandatory. It's supposed to be about supporting each other, right?
My employer has weekly staff meetings. She brings up issues that need to be improved or things that aren't working efficiently without ever pointing fingers at anyone. Everyone gets the same message. Everyone gets a copy of the agenda, the minutes, signs them and they go into a file.
For instance, we had a new employee that thought she could use the computers for her personal e-mail correspondence and checking her facebook while at work. Super duper NO NO. That was documenting the specific rules about using office equipment for personal reasons.
It continued.
The person was formerly written up and if it was found to happen again, it was grounds for termination.
You can modify that idea to fit your homeschool group.
It's just a suggestion.
Where I work, right now, we have someone who wants policies and procedures changed to make things easier on her when certain things are in her job description and there is no one else to pick up the slack for her because they have their own jobs.
She's been told no. It's not more efficient. It won't streamline anything. The fact is, there are just certain things she doesn't want to do. Things are not being changed to suit her. Can't blame her for asking I guess, but the answer is no.

I just think you need to be very organized with clear expectations, open to suggestions while being clear that not all suggestions are doable.
Now that you have some new members, including the one you're speaking about, this sounds like a perfect time to go over all of these things so everyone is on the same page.

Just my opinion.

Is there any main coordinator or leader or president? I would ask that person to sit down with the new mom and go over new mom's concerns and see if either new mom can conform better/better understand or suggest other groups she might try for a better fit. Not everyone is going to fit well with every group. If no one laid out the workings of the group to her, this would be her chance to understand and either calm down or choose to find another group.

She may just be one of those annoying people who is never happy, though. Not unless everyone jumps to HER tune, which I don't think you should do. Writing what you put in a dish isn't a huge deal and if it's your kid with the dairy, eggs and nut allergy (like my friend's son) it is a HUGE deal to know what's in it. Your group isn't asking too much by this description. I'd be prepared for her to be cranky and maybe even badmouth you in the homeschool community, but just keep your heads high.

I would also talk to the other new mom re: the sickness and thank her for the head's up, etc. She did the right thing.

Hi,

If there is some sort of a leader of the group, they could confront mom and say---I know you are new and are just learning the rules, but it has come to my attention and from alot of feedback from the ladies that you aren't mixing with them well. We have a certain way of doing things in our group that work well for us and we hope you will choose to be part of it. In the future, please do not do X, Y, Z. It hurts other homeschooling moms/kids/family etc. and that wont be tolerated. Hope this helps and good luck!

M

Why don't you start a new members luncheon? Have a couple of the other longtime members host a luncheon for any new members(maybe once a year or so depending on how often you get newbies) that informally explains the rules and how your group works and answers any questions the new members might have. You can also hand out any information like contact numbers and emails and a loose schedule for the year.
That way you can explain the reason why you guys do what you do and what the options are for those who don't want to do it that way(I'm thinking about the food thing here). This will give you a chance to explain a little better that there are tons of activities scheduled through out the year and it is not necessary that they come to each one. Hopefully that will help.
~C.

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I would do what I have done in the past. Make sure you have other Mom's who support you and will go with you to talk to this Mom. Make a blanket statement of we have noticed that there are several ways that things are handled in our group that you feel uncomfortable with how they are handled. We want to make sure everyone is accomodated as much as possible and we don't seem to be accomplishing this for you. Since we aren't perhaps there is another homeschooling group that you would be happier and have a better alignment with their goals. We appreciate you listening and considering what we have put on the table. We have run the group this way for several years now and you are the only one we have had multiple complaints from on a regular basis, so we may not be a good fit.

As far as the ingredients list..KUDOS. If you live the simple life and don't have to worry about any allergies, awesome. For someone who has kids who have tested and reacted to multiple allergens and one who is Celiac and always taking a bag of groceries in the car with them just in case a group with rules like this would be a blessing. There are top major allergens out there and if you cook from scratch it really is not the hard for the occasional food gathering with a group to attach a recipe. This also enables someone who likes your dish to write it down for themselves as well or decide if they should attempt a complicated dish or not. All around I'd love this at any group gathering.

Sounds like she did not "know the rules" so she seems to react to each thing as they come up, because she did not realize these things would be expected. So now she is feeling like she is not doing anything right.

She also sounds like she is not a very "adept", social person. She is a bit clumsy/blunt with her communications.
Someone or a few people need to speak with her about her concerns.

I agree that if there are allergies, to let everyone know what they are, so that people can be aware or at least tag an item with Dairy/wheat/nuts.. or whatever may be a problem for anyone. Or make it a fun deal where everybody brings copies of the recipes to share when they prepare a dish.

It is hard to add new people in a group. It can totally change the dynamics.. The best way to avoid this is to have the information about how the group is run, what expectations are and options or suggestions to be given when accepting or inviting others. This will allow the new person decide if this is a good fit for them or not. Then later if they scoff, you can remind them about the original expectations.

This is what I call "group growing pains". You all were a laid back group of friends and parents, now you are becoming more of an organization, adding people that have other sorts of needs. Establish yourself with goals and a "Mission statement" that is clear about what your group is.

I think the title is funny considering your user name is cheerfulM. :)

Okay the food, yeah any rational person would think your rules are stupid. Who came up with that anyway. If you have 20 ingredients and only one could cause an allergy to the group why not just write this has nuts? Sorry but the people that have the kids with allergies should give the list to every member and then yes, it would be reasonable to write on food you bring this has whatever in it.

Other than that she seems a bit uppidy. That could just because she is trying to find her fit with the group. Instead of putting up walls by saying she is ruining your group why not work on helping her fit in. Like considering the ingredient rule has a mess of unnecessary work involved and changing it to be a bit more reasonable to every member.

Oh yeah maybe ask her if she has skills in telling the future because then you can put her in charge of advanced warning of upcoming illnesses. I didn't want you to think you are not right that she seems like a piece of work, I just think you should try to meet in the middle.

She sounds like what I call an "SS" (s#%t starter). I find often, these people are trying stake claim on their turf, and command respect. They want to be leaders, or queen bees, and have no problems letting everyone know this.

Our homeschool group has a couple of these types as well. Currently there is a lot of drama going on in our group about which queen bee is going to be the host of the annual couples dinner party. Usually the ladies with the bigger homes take on this challenge and agree amongst themselves who will get the honors to show off their swank pad.

This year, a new gal has joined, but apparently when she didn't get the nod to be the host of the annual dinner party, she just created a venue of her own and invited everyone. Her party conflicts with the other party. She's rubbing folks the wrong way. It's bad. The date of the two parties hasn't arrived yet. So the end game is still unknown.

Everyone is walking on eggshells. It's quite political. So far, I think the newer families who don't know the lay of the land are going to the new lady's party. They don't have a clue about the repercussions they'll face when the old guard takes down names and decides they're traitors. LOL. Can we say way too high school?

Anyhoo...the story probably won't give you any insight for your concerns. I share just to let you know, I think this comes with the territory. Even HS moms can be momzillas. LOL!

But you might be interested to know, that prior to the new gal being the latest SS to join our group. There were some others. But they got their wings clipped by the old guard (former board members of the co-op), who did some things at the end of their term to curtail the madness.

Before they stepped down, they purposely created by-laws in writing to control how much power the new clique could wield over the rest of us. The new leadership was a small clique of friends who were also SSers. The old guard knew the new clique coming into power was planning on being very much the way you described this new person in your group.

So they created very clear and detailed rules and by-laws, AND assigned new posts and people to enforce them. So for instance, we also had a food allergy concern. They (old guard) created very clear rules requiring that ingredients be attached to all foods at potlucks and parties.

We also have established a yahoo chat group and post all memos to the group there. However, we have one person assigned to monitor and approve any and all messages going to the entire group. There are guidelines, so the person screening and sending messages can't make arbitrary decisions. This cuts way down on cattiness or inappropriate stuff getting sent out.

Chat is open to everyone, but there are clear rules of what is acceptible...such as no insults or rudeness will be tolerated, or you risk losing privileges to be part of the group. What that woman did to all of you would never have been tolerated. She would have been kicked off the yahoo group. Not the group entirely, but definitely the online stuff, which is a big deal. If you're out of the loop via the internet, you're pretty much ostracized from the group as a whole because you won't know what is going on.

In the case of the germs, what a great courtesy! I wish more people did that in our group. We don't have a policy about that...but I bet if I suggested it, no one would be offended and would probably incorporate that in rules. We too have people with serious health conditions or weakend immune systems (we had a woman going through chemo who needed to know this), some have children with special needs or concerns, and others are pregnant who NEED to know if they're around sick people.

We did have a policy that everyone Purell before dropping their kids off at the day care program while the rest of the older kids were in co-op classes. It was a small inconvenience that worked wonders. Illnesses in the group went way down last winter. We think because of the Purell rule.

Anyway, it sounds like you and others in the group need to come up with some rules of conduct and other important things and put them in writing. Do you have any leadership in your group? If not, and your group is small, suggest members establish an informal leadership board. Whatever you do, the majority of the group needs to agree to enforce it. It will help. I guarantee it.

For us, things are way less crazy. The SSes still kick stuff up, but it is waaay better than it used to be. But of course we have about 100 moms in this group, so we really had to do something.

Well, you've got to deal with all sorts of people in this life, without the option of 'terminating' them. I think you should show some patience and kindness towards her. Set an example for the children in how to deal responsibly, kindly, and maturely with someone who has different opinions and attitudes from you.

I've experienced complicated people at my Homeschool groups and mostly people just ignored them. If she complains, let her complain. There is one in every group. She'll either change or leave. If you're in the middle of an awkward situation, there is always someone who'll get sick of it and say something on the spot. Especially after this happens over and over again. Someone will get fed up and put her in her place. As far as the woman who sent the email about her child getting the flu. I probably would have just emailed and said "Hey, thanks for the heads-up, I hope she gets better soon" so she wouldn't feel bad about it. Obviously, this woman has issues and it wasn't the mom's fault her child got sick. HTH

ask her to leave. she is damaging the dynamics of your group, it is obvious she is pretty selfish and doesnt care about the health and safety of the children with the food allergies. if she is already causing these kinds of problems it will only get worse

She sounds like a pretty "all about me" type of person. If she was told in advance that everyone brings a list of the ingredients in their dish to events, that should be okay - if told last minute or after the fact, it would be a little inconvenient - but to suggest that anyone with food allergies eat BEFORE coming to a picnic is ridiculous. Thinking that all activities should be based on her convenience is nothing but selfish. She has the option to change her other plans if she really wants to go. If you have a calendar of events and a clear method of planning events, be sure to share them with her. She could also offer to plan an outing or two that she would enjoy, and then it would be on her timeframe. The child with the flu ... I understand being upset that your child was exposed to that sort of illness, but I would think that we all know what it's like for a child to suddenly come down with something.
Maybe she doesn't feel like the rules/guidelines/etc of the group have been clearly communicated. The group itself may also just not be a good fit for her.

I just wanted to thank Janet for another way to look at the situation:)

Hi there!
I woud give her a chance, not because she is doing things correctly or nicely, and probably some other moms are being annoyed too; however, it would be nice and assertive to talk to her, yourself or another person in charge of the group. Just have a little talk, let her speak her mind, and remind her about the rules, or guidelines you all have there to make things easier for everyone.
Ask her for other ideas and suggestions and just make the problem into something positive.It is hard, but I think is is also a learning experience for everybody.