Neighbors Next Door Follow up ... Ughh!!

I am so sorry you're going through this.

As a homeschooling mom situations like that anger me because 1) it's not fair to the kids involved; and 2) it reflects badly on homeschooling parents - the vast majority of whom are extremely invested in their kids and involved in what they are doing.

I would worry that something illegal is going on over there (not that it is - but it would concern me).

Sounds like the wall is a good idea. You may end up having to complain to the HOA and even local law enforcement (unfortunately).

Good luck.

In my opinion, since we are already judging, you should MYOB about what they do for a living (none of your concern how they make their money - maybe they were just born rich), how they raise their kids (bedtimes, academics). They are not accountable to you.

If the way they set up their patio REALLY bugs you, complain with the HOA and risk ruining your relationship with them. That's something you have to weigh for yourself. Or contact the landlord...

If your HOA does not have rules about smoking outdoors (some places do) there is nothing you can do about it, except keeping your windows closed.

If they are loud after ten PM, no matter what night, call the police. Otherwise I don't believe that there are any laws or rules that say you can olny party on a weekend. These people OBVIOUSLY have a very different life style than yours.
You have the option of either risking a sour relationship with them and start complaining to the HOA and landlord.
Or you accept their quirks and learn to live it it, without being too upset about it. If you can't do the latter, because it bugs you too much, you'll be in for a lot of stress though...
Good luck!

You are never going to have a say in who rents the place in the future or at present. So if you know the present owner is intending this property to be a long term rental then I think your only options are to live and let live, put up a higher fence, make a serious investment in some landscaping or move. You do sound a bit judgmental and I don't think it is your place to question the parenting of the children (unless you think they are in serious danger) or question from whence their money is coming. It sounds to me like they are enjoying their yard as much as you wish to be enjoying yours so take your yard back and enjoy it despite what you perceive to be inappropriate behavior. I have a neighbor who hates the smell of charcoal but that isn't going to stop my husband from grilling. Some people dance to the beat of their own drummer and that is okay even if it is annoying to their neighbors. Personally, were I you, I would put up the fence and hope for future renters more inclined to my lifestyle.

You can't control people's lifestyles. If they are too loud after hours, call the police. It WILL be anonymous. Otherwise, do what you have to do to cope: Turn on the a.c. and close the windows, build your wall, etc. Good luck!

It sounds to me like you're honestly trying to make the best of a difficult situation, to understand it, and to do what's "right"... it is SO difficult when lifestyles collide.

So I'll just chip in on the 'understanding' bit for a second on the homeschooling:

- Yes, most homeschoolers take summer breaks. Some don't (like myself... but that's because I prefer to take breaks all year long :D :D :D. Plus I just happen to like the educational model of not having to review all and sundry come fall).

- There's a trap people looking in at homeschooling fall into. If the HS'er is naturally social & outgoing they're "attention starved". If they're naturally shy they're "socially awkward". This is a no-win situation for our kids. As parents... if we call them away we're "isolating" or "controlling" them if we're allowing it we're not being safe or teaching manners. My own kiddo is a classic example of a super social kid. We can have 8 kids over (his cousins plus six of his friends, and as soon as our dear neighbor drives in, he's hanging on the fence asking about her day, her grown children, and inviting her over for dinner. I give this as an example, because it happened 2 weeks ago. This kiddo will literally go from camp to playdate to sports practice and *never* stop talking to every child and adult in earshot. Sometimes I want the hook from the gong-show. Being around people is his 2nd favorite thing. Making them laugh is his first. So when the neighbor kids are accosting you at every opportunity, realize, some kids are just annoyingly extroverted. My mum's neighbor boy is the same way as my son... but in school he's the "class clown"... and the neighborhood has started putting him to work. He now takes out all the garbage cans on the street and puts them back every week... in addition to random gardening, newspapers to the door, and mail brought in. His mom is a good friend of my mums... and she's as much at her wits end with him as anyone. Social kids have as many difficulties as shy ones in meeting cultural expectations. But they tend to do well once they hit highschool & adulthood. They're mowing lawns, networking, and the "perfect" host at parties.

- "Mom" may very well not teach at all. Dad could be the primary teacher (I know several dads who are), or they could "farm out" all of the educational responsibility (classes, tutors, co-ops, there are dozens of ways in which a homeschooling parent becomes principal & or school board instead of directly teaching), or they could use a philosophy that places the majority of the education on the child, with parental oversight & direction or even introduction, but not standard "teaching"... like montessori, or unschooling, or they could be cyber-schoolers where the schoolwork is done and submitted to an outside teacher online. Does this mean that they are? Nope. They could be terrible homeschoolers... but I know far more "good" ones than bad ones. But philosophies and application vary so much from house to house that the only commonality amongst "good" ones, are that their children are receiving a great education. <laughing> I know people who were terribly concerned about our kiddo's math because they would randomly "quiz" him... and he doesn't like to "preform". So they'd ask him a question and he'd either answer randomly (wrong), or just look at them, or say "I don't know" or try and get THEM to answer. My aunt is one of these people. Who was railing on to my mum about how she'd asked him a simple addition problem and he'd gotten it *completely* wrong. My mum does "away-work" (instead of homework) with my son on her playdates with him, and happened to have some of his math to show my Aunt. She said the look on my aunt's face was priceless as she was looking at the algebraic equations he'd done that week. It's a common gripe amongst HS'ers that people want to "quiz" their children at every given opportunity. It's a hard place to be in as a parent, because no one quizzes kids who are away schooled at the drop of the hat and furthermore uses these random pop quizzes to evaluate their education. Also, that if you ask the majority of away schoolers what they're learning in school, or what they did that day you more often than not get one of the following 2 responses. 1) I don't know. 2) Nothing. We all know that's not true. But for some reasons, outsiders take HS'd kids with the same answers as their away schooled peers at their word.

- Most away-schooled kids (in this country) go to bed around 8pm, because they have to be up 10-11 hours later... and that's the magic number for how much sleep most elementary aged kids need. So most of us in this country think "elementary" and think 8pm bedtimes. But HS'd kids don't usually have t be up that early. Some are, some aren't. In Rome... kids eat dinner with their parents at 10pm and are in bed a few hours after that... and *that's* normal. For HS kids... "normal" depends on family dynamic and need. As long as their parents are facilitating healthy periods of sleep... to me... that's what matters. <Laughing> But even when it's US at the store at midnight after spending an evening stargazing WE look weird to ME (In Seattle it doesn't even get dark until 10pm in the summer). Even though I know kiddo will sleep himself out and be up and attem 10 hours later. In Rome, though, we don't look weird at all... because the streets are full of kids. Cultural expectations are really deep rooted thing. Ditto... in the winter when we're in bed by 6 or 7pm we look strange... but it's because at 5am the next morning kiddo is climbing into his snow clothes and we're headed up the mountain, "taking our books with us". Either way, though, in bed super early or late... we "look" weird.

I had read your previous post before, and I hate that you are having all this trouble! It's hard to figure out what to do!

Have you ever called the police when they have these parties? If they are loud or otherwise disturbing you in the wee hours of the night, you can call the police to report it.

And the racing in the street? That neighbor definitely should have called the police then. Maybe I've just become cold, but if you disturb me in the middle of the night I'm calling the police!!

Ditto to what Ina said exactly.

You can't impose your lifestyle standards onto them, just as they can't with theirs. So you just have to suck it up, unless you want to complain.
You don't know what goes on in their house and it's none of your business.

So you can either complain to the HOA and let the relationship go sour, or take action on your own property. But I don't think that your husband calling them to ask that they change the way they live to accomodate your standards is going to yield anything positive anyway.

Wow!!! Do you know who is the rental company that maintains the house?, or is the homeowner the landlord? We have several renters next door to me, and I call the rental company directly, I didn't care if my name was being used or not! I have also called HOA, not caring once again! The way I saw it is... I will be in MY home that I own, for many years, these are renters who will probably be gone with in the term of the lease! At the end of this summer, we are putting a 6 ft privacy fence up (we know have a 4 ft picket!), just so I don't have to deal with the next renter (we actually have a very nice family there now, for the first time in 6years!!!)
Good Luck in whatever you decide to do, but remember you OWN your home, so dont settle for less for your family!

Hmm...so many thoughts...

SMOKING: I FEEL you on the smoking. I am horribly allergic to cigarette smoke, and I am quite sure that one's right to smoke to NOT preclude another's right to BREATHE. It's wrong that you can't open your windows. I don't think it would be wrong if you called the landlord and asked if there was a "no smoking" clause in the rental agreement (and let him/her know it was being violated if the answer was "yes"). No, it won't be anonymous, but if he boots them, does it matter? My Dad was a chain smoker and when he moved out when I was a teen-ager, my mom and I scrubbed LOTS of yellow cigarette-smoke gunk off the walls and windows. You are right to try to keep that yellow gunk out of YOUR house & your daughter's lungs. If they are ONLY smoking outside, I am not sure what you can do, but I think it would be reasonable to point out to the landlord that THAT is still a problem.

KIDS: Unless you think they are hurting their children, or failing to feed them, calling social services is probably NOT in the children's best interest. Home-schoolers do take summer breaks, and I recall being allowed to stay up and run around until midnight in the summer when I was 11 or 12. Best memories ever. We were only allowed to do that on Friday night, but maybe Wednesday starts the week-end for these folks. It's quite possible that they do work, but at a schedule very different from your own. I also couldn't ride a bike until I was 12 and I couldn't climb monkey bars. It may be that the parents aren't doing what they should, but there may be other things going on as well. Since you are making friends with these kids, do what you can to help them out with ANY kind of skills. But don't assume that the parents (and they don't sound very engaged) are 100% at fault in what the kids can/can't do.

NIOISE: The fact that the live music stopped at 10 shows that either they don't want the police to come OR they care. If there is still partying noise after 11, it makes perfect sense to call in a noise complaint to the police. Heck, when I was in college, I had some neighbors that simply didn't like me and my room-mates and they called in noise complaints if they didn't like the LOOKS of someone sitting on our porch. The police told me that they knew we weren't ACTUALLY loud but that if they received 2 calls the same night, they still had to take someone in. I don't know the laws in your state, but if it's the same, that should certainly motivate them to bid "good night" to their guests.

Good luck - it's a hard road, because you probably want to stay engaged with the kids, since you are worried about them, but you also want the neighbor's gone so you can enjoy your home. I am all for people getting to live their own lives, and I personally would be fine with a neighbor with a couch out front and a "lawn" of pinwheels, but when you can't sleep and you can't open your windows and are basically not able to enjoy YOUR home anymore, then NO that's never OK.

Good luck! Please let us know what happens!

p.s. I just read your other post. There isn't anything wrong with not sending kids to preschool. Not everyone can do it and not everyone wants to. There are both cultural and class issues around that subject.

I would be just as annoyed as you are,a nd frankly if they are causing a rukus late at night, call the police. it can be annonymous and they can get violatons for breaking noise ordanances. Also call the owner and let them know your concerns, we rent out our old house i would want to know if our renters were causing a disturbance in the neighborhood. Also they would want to know whats going on, if the outside is being trashed chances are the inside might not be any better and the owner can check this out. They can also talk to them about the smoking and stuff. I get your thing about the HOA,we have an issue with a nieghbor now and when we called they said they could not have it be annonymous and who wants to rock the boat right? I think building the wall up is a wise idea, then you can have some of your pricavy back as well as be able to let your dog out in the backyard again. It sounds like these people are just inconsiderate and negelegtful, sorry, and hopefully there lease is up soon.

Well, as far as their income goes, they could be biz owners working from home. Although my husband and I both own our own businesses and have offices outside the home, we technically could work from our home and we make over a 6 figure income. So you don't need to assume they are working the system, they may have legit jobs.

I don't know anything about homeschooling either but it seems you are being bothered by many things. You already tell the kids not to come over when you don't want them so that appears to be handled. You can't really do anything about another persons decisions on parenting their children unless the kids are in serious harm.

If the smoking is a problem, install ceiling fans on your patio and keep them on, that should help with that. I'm allergic to cigs so I understand the problem, but really there isn't much more you can do about it.

Build the wall up and lose the view. That seems to be the fastest and easiest way to solve your problems. Good luck.

And here I was sitting just thinking that Irvine would be the perfect place to move to. This really seems out of the ordinary- yes.
I am currently renting, and I cannot wait to get away from the people that OWN their house down the street, that act like your current neighbours.
Ugh!
It must be very sour for you, since you own your house.
If you know the owners of the house next door, I'd certainly go that route.
I don't think any landlord likes to have a tenant like them.
If they are loud after 10 pm, call the cops. Granted they will most likely figure out who called, but then again they have more neighbours than you - right?
Good Luck!

not sure i could do it, but i'm wondering if you could be really loud during their "sleep time" and disturb them and see what happens, you'd probably end up getting the visit from the police instead.

Not very helpful sorry but very sympathetic.

If the children are using a cyber school they could have a teacher over the internet that they work with, although, from the sounds of it they really aren't getting an education. And i could understand if the party was someone's actual bday or a promotion celebration, ..... i take that back, this involved preplanning and renting stuff right, so this wasn't a wing it thing, unless someone was moving to istanbul and weds was the only night to do it.

wow this really sucks, wait it out & hope they move. or i guess deal with them possibly finding out you went to their super and deal with them possibly retaliating, yikes!

Yes call the owners of the house, everytime this gargage goes on. If they are partying all night and keeping you up call the homeowner and wake him up to. Take pic's document everything and if the owner is in any violations take him to court. I had the exact problem 3 houses down from me. After 3 months of 2 a.m phone calls (even if it is the machine) he got sick of it. Tenants out and peace restored. Also does the homeowner need any type of permits to rent out this house and if so did he get the? If the answer is yes and he didn't then you'll have even more grounds.

I'm not sure about California laws, but I would imagine there's a social services agency you could contact to voice your concern about the children's wellbeing. Perhaps a social worker can come to their home and get a more thorough understanding of how the kids are faring. As far as the neighborly problems with noise, smoke, I really can't think of a diplomatic solution as there will always be people with differing lifestyles and we have to share our space. Do bring up your concerns, however, and who knows- maybe they'll be totally respectful and change some of the bad behavior.

I once heard a cliche "good fences make good neighbors". I'd hate to see you lose your view, but it sounds like this is the best option.

I'm so sorry you are going through this...

I feel for you! I'm in the middle of dealing with a new rental neighbor, "home schooler", dirt bike issue myself. I would approach the owner of the house about building the wall up and go from there. If they ask why, you can take that as a point to elaborate. That way it doesn't look like you called to complain, rather how to remedy this situation and make it better for yourself. I would be beside myself in your situation. Good Luck.

honestly what they do as parents with their kids should not be anyone's business. yet, your situation with them is so frustating and you should concentrate on them.
firstly, inviting kids over sometimes, in this situation, is a no-go. kids don't understand why is it ok now but not later, or tomorrow. so be cordial but no more playdates with those kids.
i'd first talk to them: privacy, and late night parties. send your husband since i am afraid you will come off frustrated which you are and you have reason tlo be.. let your husband have a heart to heart talk with them, explain that everything they do, you then hear and kids are having troubles falling asleep. now what they put in their yard is something you cannot control. it
s their rental property. if the talk does not work then contact the owner, who most likely only cares about the rent money, not what they do or whom they annoy. so dealing directly with them may be the way to go.

Ugh. They sound like the neighbors from hell. They are not responible parents and inconsiderate neighbors they are only thinking of themselves. So no matter what you say or do to them that is all they were will thinking about.Themselves.
Sorry I don't think your going to like this but I would move or start praying they will move. This sounds completely hokey but I will tell you anyhow.
If you go into a Catholic store ( I am Catholic) there is a plastic saint that you can purchase that is supposed to help you sale your house quickly. Could you possibly dig it in their yard when they are not looking? Like at normal morning time since they will still be sleeping.

Well, I am a renter and my landlord can drive by anytime he wants it's a public street even pull up in the drive way. If he wants to enter our laws in Georgia are 24 hours notice...well, I have nothing to hind except the fact I may need to clean up toys and get kids out of the living room otherwise if our's doesn't wants to cry about kids playing in our living room and having to step over toys while at play then I don't care when or if he comes...however I don't want someone unlocking my door and not telling me they are coming or else they could end up with a skillet upside their head....I'd assume it's an intruder and I have kids to protect, plus were I live it's legal to have a gun in your home (but I don't) others don't know that.

We don't party, nor home school but it sounds more like alot of child neglect and disrespect for the other neighbors next to you. I'm sure in the agreement as in mine I am not to disrupt the peace of our neighbors, have police called on us for those kind of party reasons or I'm breeching my contract in that area. I'd bet the landlord doesn't know about the couch on the patio and wouldn't be happy about the decor nor the parties until all hours either and the disrupt of the neighbors peace.

I have to agree with your hubby I'd call the landlord (hope these folks aren't relatives he'd side with). Assuming they aren't with a few complaints they may end up out of their. Now laws don't have to be broken however the mental stress you and your family can be under have made folks go to court and yes actually win, when neighbors can't maintain a respectful domain to others.

No they may not live like you however that's no reason to force they lives on you because of the effect of what they are doing is making problems in your life. I don't know if these kind of people can be dealt with by you so seeking assistance by the landlord my be your only hope or an attorney for a civil suite.

Privacy fences make for great neighbor relationships lol. AND it sends a clear message. Unfortunately theres really not much you can do about their lifestyle, unless you call the police for excessive noise etc. Im not sure what else you can really do. The more you might say to these people about their lifestyle will probably prompt an excess of the same, just to irritate you.

Yes I would give the owners a call, just to fill them in on whats going on in the house, it is a bad reflection on them to have renters irritating others owners around their house. Good luck. I have had my fair share of awful neighbors, I sympathize :)

Yikes, after reading your post I am not sure really what could be done on your part w/out getting into an ugly feud w/ your neighbors.. Do you own this home or rent? If you are renters I would move asap. I know this sounds extreme, but if it were me I would also consider selling too. I don't imagine things will change for the better. I wish you luck.

It sounds like you have a good plan in place for a frustrating situation. And it sounds like you are already handling the kids coming over situation fine. We have kids coming to our door all the time asking to play (and one is particularly persistent and can be at our house before we are out of the car.) Sometimes I just let the kids play but sometimes I have to say no, just like you. I don't think there is anything wrong with explaining that now is not a good time to play but maybe later (sometimes I am more specific). I just try to be pleasant and positive and try to make a point to not make the child feel bad for asking. (And sometimes I would very much like to say that "I would just like a few cotton pickin' minutes with just my kids.") Kids can understand play sometimes and not other times. Growing up we all managed not to be harmed when we went to our friend's house to play and were told not now. :) So long as the answer isn't always no and is not seen as a personal attack, I think the kids should be just fine.

Good luck!

Where we live there is a law about having indoor furniture outside, like a couch. Maybe you could look into that.

Yes, make the calls. I would call the property owners AND the home owners association regarding the continuous smoke, trashiness, all night parties and noise, and respectfully ask your complaints remain anonymous so you don't trigger any kind of neighborhood fued. Yes request and then start building a bigger wall, and continue steps to making your property more private. Yes, call the police on any excessive noise, especially late at night. Regarding the kids, I wouldn't worry about the lack of bike riding and climbing skills (that is sad, but not a crime), but since she admitted to you she "is on her own" for schooling, I would call CPS, or find which authority to report that to. There isn't anything wrong with homeschooling, but it IS illegal and abusive for her to have NO schooling. Those kids may really need some intervention from social services to ensure they are receiving an education. Again, I would request your report be anonymous. Good luck!