Need Suggestions - Whiteland,IN

I don't think you should stop seeing them because of the kids. However, I'm a big believer in limiting time with toxic people. Offer to meet them at a public place for ice cream or take a picnic to the park. They can hang out, see the kids, then leave. You don't have to spend a ton of time with them. Quality over quantity. Then if she decides to get herself under control, you can start again with home visits or longer visits. Good luck.

Meet in a public place that does not serve alcohol, such as IHOP.

I think you need to take FIL to an Al-Anon meeting, ask a friend to babysit the kids and the three of you go to a meeting. FIL is an enalbler and co-dependent. He covers for her and uses her as an excuse why his life isn't better.

I would not spend any more time than you have to with them until they straighten out their lives.

Meet at a park, bring a snack (so there's no question of sitting down for a meal but hungry kids can get their needs met) be in charge of yourselves (you, husband, kids) in the situation...that is all you can do. Meeting at a park means that it's neutral ground, you can leave immediately if your MIL starts to pick a fight, etc.

The whole thing is very sad when there is such a high level of dysfunction going on. This may be emotionally pretty painful for your husband, so be aware that no matter what happens, you may both come away from the encounter with conflicted feelings. This would happen with me when I used to visit my toxic mother when my niece and nephew were staying with her-- she wasn't drunk, but has untreated borderline personality disorder and it was horrible to watch her interact with them. There was no approaching her on her behavior, no remedy one could suggest which would be heard without her going on the offensive. She always felt that her complaints and criticisms of others (which were terrible, the kids were little and she just ridiculed them for what they couldn't do instead of enjoying *who* they were)--those hard words always were 'justified'.

All I can tell you is, hang in there with this one 'last' visit, make a plan with your husband that allows your family to leave without a big confrontation in front of the kids (if at all possible) and do your best. It sounds like, when you move, you'll have more space (emotionally) and be in a better position.

For what it's worth, unhealthy people usually marry other unhealthy people. There is a LOT of codependency going on in your FIL/MIL's relationship, but the more you point it out, the more of a 'unified force' they will be. I dealt with this for a few years where my own mom would complain of her fourth husband being 'violent' and such, and as many times as I offered her a place to stay, she wouldn't ever leave him and when he would agree to go to counseling, she'd let him off the hook. "Just the fact that he's willing is enough". The real truth was that counseling was scary, because it would have required both of them to face up to their mutual dysfunctions. They apparently (I have no contact with them) stayed together for another 10 years or so after that before she found someone else and, no surprise, left #4 for #5. All that to say, we have to let other people's 'crazy' be just that, theirs. My life is 100% more pleasant without my own mom in it. Enjoy the space when you move!

Your husband should say, "Dad, we love you both very much, and because of that we have decided we will no longer ENABLE you BOTH. We are not responsible for anyone's consequences when they are drunk (high, etc). This is our decision and this will be our answer until you BOTH get help. Looking forward to our group visit at..........."

Have you read The Glass Castle? Jeannette Walls chronicals the mixed messages and loyalties growing up with addiction and enabling. It's a really good book, and at times helped my feel sane :-).

why allow it to be revisited at all?
just close the door firmly each time he tries. 'FIL, i've discussed this with you already and you know my decision. we would love for you to have a relationship with our kids, but it needs to be under our parameters. this discussion is closed.'
since their house is infested, it obviously can't be there. a neutral setting isn't a bad idea. then if she starts trouble, you just leave.
if your husband is allowing himself to be 'hounded' stay out of it. it's his dad, and i'm sure this is very hard for him. but he's an adult and will handle it as best he can. don't mother him. i'm very much in the same position he is, and have chosen to limit my face-time because i can't help feeling a little resentful that i only get to see my parent with his significant other in tow. but he's old, and that's his comfort zone. i don't tell him what his *should* be, i simply know what mine is and stick to it.
khairete
S.

So sorry that the situation is still difficult. As you clearly understand, active addiction and co-dependence make life SOOO messy! If you are attending Al-Anon meetings, the conversations there should give you the immediate support you need. It is really sad that your family doesn't get a normal, healthy relationship with your FIL due to MIL's addiction. As you know, that's how addiction affects the non-users close to them. It goes with the territory. You'll also get reminders at meetings that the issue isn't whether your MIL 'respects' you. When addict/alcoholics are actively using their drug, they can't behave respectfully to anyone. Perhaps your MIL would be a wonderful person to interact with... if she wasn't sick from active addiction. That's another part of the tragedy--addicts are often really interesting people. If they just weren't actively using, they'd be great. But they DO use and all that potential gets twisted and wasted.

It is sad, however it is good that you and your husband are taking the necessary steps to care for your children and your own mental health. I'm so encouraged to know that you two have stayed on the same page and agree on the right course of action. So often, that isn't the case, and I hope you value that you have something special in being able to work together in a very difficult situation.

To answer your specific question: you are wise to have that get-together with your in-laws someplace neutral (safe), namely not your house or theirs. What about meeting at a play place? In that kind of setting, everyone can watch the kids run around, sit and chat if they want, and if MIL acts up, you can just say goodbye and leave--no need to worry about a meal coming or anything. A coffee shop is another option--set up the kids with a boardgame and you have an easy exit if needed. Perhaps see if you and hubby can both have transportation available. That way, if your husband wants to stay longer, he can and you can get out.

Indeed, it will be easier when you are further away from Craziness Central. It won't solve everything, however things certainly become easier. Maybe your FIL will decide to come visit you. Sending lots of good wishes!

You've said all that needs to be said. Respond with "we've talked about this. The answer is the same. We know it's painful for you and for us." Then change the subject or walk away.

Sounds like you want FIL to understand that he's not helping her or the situation. Know that this is an insight he'll have to come to on his own. You've told him how you feel. Now it's time to let go.

Build on your relationship with him by expressing empathy without trying to change his thoughts.

Ditto. A play place is good.

Another book to read, Emotional Blackmail, Susan Forward.

Enablers are just as big a problem as the addict. They are the ones trying convince others that their lack of courage to confront is the best course of action. Doesn't matter to them if their relationships suffer or somebody physically gets hurt, just so they can feel good about their choice to enable.
Don't give him a chance to foist his sickness on you.

I know it really hurts. Like Nervy Girl, I have a BPD in my life that I have kind of let go emotionally. I can't fix her, I can't even be in contact because she is so toxic..and addicted to prescription pain relievers. Too bad.

Your MIL sounds like a typical selfish alcoholic, and your FIL is an enabler. Meet them for dinner at a restaurant, say your goodbyes, and be done with it. If she tries to start trouble, you can easily get up and leave.

You say- It is not healthy for our kids to be around MIL. If she chooses to get better, we will support that and can look at the possibility of visiting her when she is in recovery. It is sad that it has come to this, but we cannot have her in our children's lives right now.
Full stop.
I would meet FIL at a restaurant or park to say goodbye. If MIL shows up, just leave- no fight, no drama, just pack up and walk away.
I'm sorry that you are dealing with this, it sounds terrible for everyone involved, but your job is to protect your children, not MIL, not FIL.

Every time FIL starts in on you/Hubby to apologize to alcoholic step MIL, ask him how many times he's been to Al-Anon.
He's in denial but there's no reason you and your Hubby need to be nor do you need to cave in and dismiss her drunken behavior.
Actually it's a good idea for you and Hubby to go to Al-Anon meetings too.
She's affecting your family (your FIL and through him you, Hubby and your kids) and you ALL need to be on the same page with how to deal with her manipulation/behavior.
She could easily drink herself to death.
Just hope she doesn't take anyone along with her when she does.

No way in hell would I let my kids around an alcoholic! I totally feel your pain! You and your family are done with her. Period. End of discussion. She is an alcoholic drama queen, and the only thing worse than a drama queen is her - an alcoholic drama queen. I am so happy for you that y'all are moving!!! That is the answer to all of this!!

Meet your inlaws at a park or at your house. When you move, you'll never see them again, since your FIL won't go anywhere w/o her. As soon as you move, you will be home free. Congrats!

Just hang in there. Have the farewell meeting in a neutral place without the alcohol. If the MIL acts up you get up and leave.

Enjoy your fresh start in your new location without the drama. Become a happy healthy family and be strong.

You guys didn't make the choice of this mate, your FIL made this choice and now he is living with it. He is crying out for you guys to help but he can't see the forest for the trees with his wife's addiction.

the other S.

PS Distance makes the heart grow fonder and also out of sight out of mind. Your choice.

Sounds like she's a good alcoholic who's life revolves around alcohol and the other people in her life revolve around her. You're breaking away from that - good for you and your kids. No one said it would be easy. Be clear with your boundaries with your FIL. He's choosing to be with her (and there may be consequences on his end such as limited/no time with his grandkids but that's HIS choice). You don't need to feel guilty. She's the addict who needs help.

When your kids are a little older if she's still drinking be very honest with them. Don't hide this from them as that only perpetuates the cycle.

I would maybe contact a reputable treatment center and find some resources for him including a professional interventionist. The rate of recovery for those who chose to go to rehab on their own and those who go under protest of an ultimatum have the same rate of recovery. Then when your FIL approaches the subject again, just ask if he's called yet. This doesn't mean you think she's a terrible person. She has a terrible disease that NEEDS daily treatment or she will die.

Meet at a restaurant for dinner or lunch. The public location should reduce the chance of her pitching a fit.

The more clear you are, the easier it will be. "FIL, we have no interest in a relationship with MIL at this time." "FIL, it is your choice not to see the kids without MIL. That is YOUR choice." Keep repeating this over and over. It really is that simple. Don't enter into other arguments. It will get you nowhere.

You should meet at a public place, like a park. Bring a picnic. If anyone starts trouble, pick up your family and leave.

Best,
T. Y

I would meet in a neutral place. Have them meet you at a park for a picnic, or go to the zoo or something where they can enjoy the girls and no alcohol is present, plus there's no worry about their bugs or whatever. We hate my grandma's dog, so we met her at the zoo this weekend. It was fun for everyone and no stress that the dog would get jealous and attack our kids.

If she starts trouble take the kids and leave. Inform FIL ahead of time that that is what you plan to do.

I like the idea of meeting in a public place that doesn't serve alcohol.

Well, actually, I think that the spouse DOES come first, so it's not "wrong" to choose a spouse over children or grandchildren. What's wrong is a relationship where this choice must be exercised aggressively.

Either way, this is their marriage. He's got his issues; she's got hers. They've decided to be together.

I would say to FIL, "We do not believe that we owe her an apology, so please stop saying that. We're not having this discussion."

He's an enabler.
Did you go to Alanon?
You treat her with respect. And you treat her like a person with an illness.
Don't argue.
You're moving soon?
Nod, smile....pack!