Need Some Advice... - Canton,IL

i work at a hospital. i see some people with the masks and know its because they wont vaccinate. J. like you have the choice not to get the vaccine the hospital has the choice to require you wear a mask. also you realize that yo are contageous before you show symptoms...so if you did get the flu and pss it on to some sick kid or elderly person you wouldnt know to stay home until it was too late.

hospitals are notorious for once you come in you catch other things off other sick people and get worse, this is to protect the patients

I have gotten many flu shots and never had a reaction. I don't know anyone who has had a bad reaction.

If you love this job and you're good at it, I would suck it up and get the shot. Definitely not worth losing the job over this principle.

IMO you are thinking about this WAY too much.

I haven't gotten one since my relative became very, very ill with Guillain Barre Syndrome. After that time, her doctor said to never give her the flu shot. That was a HUGE red flag to me. Then when they combined the vaccine with the swine flu - forget it.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001704/

For those of you who don't know, there was a huge uptake in the number of people who have GBS after the 70's swine flu were taken.

Anyway, I just don't feel comfortable with this "vaccine" anymore.

Yeah, I worked for a private special ed preschool for a few years. It was required of us every October too.

I just did it. Shrug. I'm not a huge flu shot fan either, but I've probably put worse things in my body, just cuz they taste good.

:)

You are looking at this like they're afraid you'll get sick. I see it as protecting the patients you are testing. You may pick up the germ and not know it but still be contagious and pass the illness on to every person you see that day and perhaps the next.

Again, this is not for your protection, but for the protection of the people you are treating.

You do have a choice - get the shot and keep your job or don't get it and risk losing it. It's not a fun choice, but it is a choice.

For them it is all or nothing so what you actually do for the hospital is irrelevant. Even if you only work with well patients, you can have a well patient with a compromised immune system. There are a ton of variable, you don't want to read a book right.

So you have a choice, shot or job, seems like a no brainer to me. I worked in food prep while I was in college so I had to have the Hep series. I did it, sure I probably never would have infected anyone but that is what is required.

This is not a human rights issue, this is not a legal issue. This is what your job requires. No one is forcing you to get the shot, you can quit and then you don't get the shot. There is a reason why everyone else just got the shot over with, this is just not the big deal you are trying to make it out to be.
________________________________________________________
Okay after reading your what happened what answers were you expecting? You clearly stated you know your choice, you clearly stated why you thought it was unfair. So what exactly did you expect us to say?

You asked if you were making a big deal out of nothing and in our own way everyone said yes, you are making a big deal out of nothing. If you have a particular way you would have preferred us to word it then you should have explained the desired format.

Sorry but I hate when people ask a question, we answer, and then you flame all over us because we didn't word it just as you wanted. We are moms, not mind readers!

Good for the hospitals making a sane and rational and well-thought-out mandate. The well being of their patients is more important than your irrational fears.

If you truly want to keep your job, get the shot and stop complaining about it.

ETA: I like K. M's answer better. I was going to mention the military requirements, but she did it well. And you DO have a choice.

Wow, with the state of the economy these days, I REALLY don't think that this is a hill worth dying on... If this is becoming a standard requirement for most hospitals, don't you think that you will run into this if again somewhere else if you stay in the healthcare field?

There are tons of things that I have to do that I really do not want to do. Years ago, I worked at a place that did not have a drug-testing requirement (I wouldn't have had a cause to worry anyway-I did not take illegal drugs). One of our clients, ExxonMobil, decided to have a mandatory drug testing policy and it extended to any subcontractor that worked on ExxonMobil projects. Therefore, everyone in my company had to go and get drug-tested to be in compliance. YES, I felt that it was a violation to pee in a cup for a drug-testing agent. However, it was a condition of keeping my job.

You really have NO medical reason not to get the shot, so it seems like a doctor's exemption would be a stretch. You could try the religious exemption, but you would be lying and that could come back to haunt you. You have the option to wear the mask and you are complaining about that because it is uncomfortable for you. Your job has given you this option and you just don't like it.

It seems like you really have the option to get the shot and keep your job or throw a fit and lose your job... Principles are really good to have, but you can't serve them to your kids for dinner. You need to really think about what you are doing here....

I totally understand where you are coming from. I quit a job on principle once, so I get it.

With that said, you need to really think about this. Is a shot worth losing your job? If it is, then stand your ground, if not, then you get the shot.

Basically our day is full of things we are "forced" to do. Get up and be to work on time, stop at a stoplight, pay taxes, etc. There are consequences for not doing them. In your case, the consequence would be being fired.

The flu can be deadly to certain people, people that you undoubtedly come in contact with, even though they are undergoing a healthy test. My daughter is one of them. Not everyone can look at her and say to themselves "Oh, she is immunosuppressed". The flu germ can be picked up everywhere, no matter how diligent you are with hand washing and sanitizing. On top of that, you are contagious before you even know you are sick, so simply staying home won't prevent spreading it. I can completely understand how a health care environment can and does require a flu shot.

As far as the flu shot itself, they've come a long way and the smaller needles don't hurt or cause the welts that they used to. It is a killed germ, so impossible to get the flu from the shot, and yes it does prevent the flu, except that they make an educated guess as to the strain of flu and then vaccinate for THAT STRAIN - so yes, you could get a different strain.

But back to your delimma - an employer requires something - you either follow the requirement no matter how much you disagree, or you don't and lose your job.

You work in a hospital, therefore it makes perfect sense for you to be required to get the flu shot. People DIE of the flu all the time, not people with healthy immune systems, but people with compromised immune systems...people who would be more likely to be in the hospital and cross paths with you.

Bottom line, the well being of the patients at the hospital is a hell of a lot more important than you feeling like your personal rights have been violated. Get the shot or quit and move on.

It is a vaccine. It does work. And it may save a patient's life at the hospital where you work. The incidence of serious reactions is low. Please look at the CDC website for some accurate information. It is a very safe vaccine.

ETA; The flu KILLS way more people every year than tetanus. Flu - average 36,000 in the US annually (CDC data). Tetanus - average 8 per year in the US.

I haven't read the other responses, so forgive me if I am repeating anything...

I think you are looking at this from the standpoint of your rights as an individual, rather than seeing what is best for the population at large. You are right to feel that you shouldn't have to get a flu vaccine if you don't want to, but if you are going to be working with the public in the healthcare field, and that is what the employer requires, and you like your job and want to keep it, you suck it up and follow the rules. You could spread flu virus before you are showing symptoms, putting other employees and patients at risk.

And yes, the flu vaccine really is a vaccine, just like any other. The problem is that there are many strains of flu out there, and there isn't a vaccine for every one. The flu vaccine will protect you against the strains that it is manufactured for, but if you have any compromise of your immune system, you may not mount an adequate immune response, and therefore may not be fully protected - which is why I won't get the vaccine while I am fighting a cold.

The company would rather pay to prevent illness than have to deal with employees who end up out sick - that is what costs THEM more in the long run. So in the end, I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. It's not like they are asking you to be sterilized or put on birth control or doing anything that could violate religious beliefs. And if you are worried about needles or how the injection can cause muscle soreness, etc., get the FluMist intranasal - it's just a squirt up the nose.

Hundreds of people do die from the flu every year - I have yet to hear about someone who died from the flu vaccine. I've gotten it every year and never have had a problem.

I didn't get far into your question - it's very, very long...

I do disagree with you when you say that the flu shot doesn't prevent getting the flu. If that were true, no one would be getting the shot. It IS accurate to say that if the flu bug mutates after they've created the year's batches, that a certain percentage of people (say 20%) will still get the flu. However, the flu they get won't be as bad as if they had not gotten the shot.

Until you have a bad case of the flu and miss 2 weeks of work, you just do not "get" how bad the flu can make you feel. Tamiflu is great for a lot of people, if they don't have a reaction to it and if they find out that they really have the flu within the window of which Tamiflu is effective.

You will just need to take your chance as to whether or not you are willing to lose your job, if you aren't willing to take a chance on getting a shot, I guess. If you have had a bad reaction to a shot before or if you are allergic to eggs, you could possibly get a doctor to write a note saying that you need a variance from the rule. Other than that, I don't know what else you should do.

I AM trying to be respectful here - not condescending - but to really be honest with you, I think that you are a little TOO afraid of something that you shouldn't be so afraid of. It comes across as a phobia of some kind. In a way, I think that if you DID get the shot that you would end up getting sick because you really believe that the shot will hurt you. Talk to your doctor about this.

Good luck,
Dawn

You've already figured out that you have two choices: get the shot or find a new job. Companies/places of employment are constantly changing requirements, rules, regulations, etc. They usually do this to improve the work place in some way. Unfortunately, not everybody agrees with the change. I'm sure you're not alone.

My husband is active duty military. There are tons of requirements, rules, and regulations (uniform, color of back pack you can carry, how you wear your hair, what time you have to exercise, mandatory flu shot, etc)--some he likes and some he doesn't. He is NEVER allowed to say anything negative about the President of the United States because that is his commander-in-chief. He could actually get in a lot of trouble! But, it is his choice to stay in--they're not forcing him. And, by choosing to stay in, he's choosing to play by their rules.

So, I guess it comes down to that. Choose to find a new job or choose to play by their rules. You do have a choice.

To me it is a no brainer: job or vaccine. If you lose your job and continue to work in the health care field, you will run into this time and time again. So only you know what is more important.

I almost never get sick. I've been sick like, three times in the past decade. I don't usually get the flu shot, because I'm lazy about it. But, last year I got the flu, and it was a week of HELL. I have almost never been so sick in my life. I was in agony for 5 days straight.

You like your job, and they are requiring it. It is HIGHLY unlikely you will get much of a reaction from the shot. Dawn described why it isn't always effective, so I won't repeat it. That does not mean that "it is not a vaccine," as you stated. It IS a vaccine.

You like your job, they are requiring the shot, just get it. You will be fine.

The hospital is protecting the patients as well as the other employees. 33% of all people infected with influenza are asymptomatic, and shedding of the virus begins at least 24 hours before the symptoms appear. You may be infected, but because you have no symptoms you will not be at home, you will be at the hospital spreading the flu. When they make up the flu vaccine they use the most common strains from the last few years. Sure you can get a different strain, but the odds are much lower. I get the flu shot every year because I work with children. My arm hurts for a day or two because it is an intramuscular injection. I've never had any other side effects and either have my kids. I also have never contracted the flu in years that I have had the flu shot. Trust me, getting the flu shot is way better than getting the flu.

I read most of your question and scanned most of the responses. I can't believe people are telling you to get the shot. DH and DD get the shot every year. I don't. I got it once in 1999 and I swear I had the worst month of my life after getting it. I didn't actually get sick, but I felt like I got hit by a truck for a full month afterwards. I swore I'd never get it again.

No way, no way would I be getting one because my job required it. I'm pretty sure that's illegal on some level. I'd personally, go the religious route or try for the medical route (the testing sounds pretty illegal too). I'd have no problem wearing a mask at my job. I'd be more worried about picking something up from someone rather than giving them something. Maybe check with your state Health Dept to see if what your employer is asking you to do is legal. Something doesn't sound right.

I have never got sick from a flu shot and I get them every year. Honestly I think you should get it. If you tirade to your employers like you have here I do think they may dismiss you. Much of your reasoning is flawed anyhow-like if you do get sick you won't come in. That would be great if the flu were not contagious BEFORE you are symptomatic.

Yes, I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. If getting the shot prevents you from getting the flu, your employer saves money because you won't be out sick where they'd have to pay someone else to do your job...possibly at time and a half while also paying you sic time. If you do get the flu despite the shot, it will lessen the intensity so that you are back to work sooner. If you don't get the flu, it prevents you from spreading flu to other employees before you are aware that you are contagious, which again saves them money. At the end of the day, it probably is mostly about the money to them, and it is a huge savings to them for you to get the flu shot. However, for you and everyone coming in contact with you, there is the huge benefit of being healthy or at least lessensing the intensity and risk if you do get the shot. I don't know of any doctors that recommend that people not get the shot, unless they have some type of special medical need that makes it impossible. In fact, at my daughter's check-up yesterday, her dr offered to give me one too because the flu season is hitting early so that they're already seeing it going around. I'm under the weather right now, so I have to wait. Once I'm well enough, I'll so be getting mine. This hardly seems the issue to fall on the sword over.

It seems to me this is very simple. Hospital is requiring any workers at their facility to have the flu shot. You and probably others do not want to take the shot. Therefore, find another job. This is not a hard-hearted answer, just a realistic one. Many institutions/facilities have rules that must be followed. Knowing the liabilities that hospitals face, this requirement does not surprise me at all. It's the world we live in today. It's your choice, just a difficult one for you at this time.

J.

After getting the flu and the pnemonia shot for the first time and having an awful (thats putting it lightly) reaction.....still not 100% and its been over a month...,,there is no way in hell I will put that poison in my body again. The flu shot can be dangerous to you and they have no right to tell you what to inject into your body.

I would lie that You got it if you could....or fight it. But I wouldn't get the shot.

I have also never gotten a flu shot, as I've never seen a need to, but if I was ever offered a job that required it I wouldn't hesitate. To me it's just not that big of a deal.
Employers can demand all kinds of things from potential employees in the name of protecting their workers, clients and customers.
When I worked at our school I had to have a TB clearance on file, and submit to a fingerprint/background check. Same thing for my son when was he was a camp counselor.
Maybe you don't see this as the same thing, but like I said, I don't think a flu shot is that big of a deal, and hey, there IS a chance it will actually be effective, right?

N.,

I hear ya! My mom works at a hospital and they continue to force shot issues although she is a secretary in an Addiction wing only. Last year she got out of the Flu shot (and from here on out) b/c she had been previously tested for allergies and she's severely allergic to eggs, though she can eat them. They say it's different going straight into the blood stream and so they let her out of it.

This year they started to demand a T-DAP and she freaked out. She could find nothing she was allergic to. She's 61 yrs old and her parents didn't get her shots after she had the first one and had such a bad reaction. Her doctor was kind and wrote her a note that she should not have it. So far it looks like it's going to be ok.

As for the mask thing, she was going to have to wear that too, but b/c they had such a high level of participation, the hospital said the few that didn't take it didn't have to wear a mask.

I strongly believe against shots and we didn't get my daughter any. I completely believe she would have been very autistic if we had. As for the religious wavier, it does not have to conform to any known religion. But being for a job, not sure what they would say.

My mom would never work for a hospital again with all this stress.

H.

Contact your state labor board and see if you can be forced to get the shot. I have had a few employers you bent and in some cases broke the rules. As my screen name says I am a minister and I perform weddings. I had a wedding scheduled on a Saturday (a day off of my regular job) I was told I had to work Saturday. I told the boss I can't I have a wedding. She told me if I didn't show up I would be written up -- I answered - okay. I knew she could not interfere with my duties as a minister. She also informed me that I HAD to change my outgoing greeting on MY cell phone to reflect the company name. Such as Hi this is R. with ABC company... When I called Wisconsin Labor Board they asked who bought the cell phone and who paid the expenses I said I did. Then the asked if I am an ordained minister and I said yes and they told me to fill out a religious discrimination form and they could take action.

My point is if an employer can not tell me what to do with my cell phone they can not tell me what to do with my body. But unless you file a complaint with your labor board they will get away with it.

I've never had a flu shot and probably will never have a flu shot. I do not believe in them either.

I say go for the note from your religious leaders. You can make a badge to put on your scrubs or whatever you wear and have it say : I wear a mask for extra safety--yours and mine. Have a great day! Or something like that. No one needs to be in your business about this. Then I would contact your state hospital rep and complain to them about this. This shouldn't be mandatory. I could see if it was tetnus or something really brutal, but the flu shot? That should be your choice.

Don't get one- they don't work and they're dangerous. Not sure what all of the responses were, but there are advocates for this sort of thing. Someone just asked the same question in a local group. I know for sure you can opt out for a religious exemption, but not sure about a personal exemption.

Search for advocacy groups online- you should come up with some things. If not, message me and I will scout around in my nutrition groups for you for help.

My husband is like you, he doesn't want the shot. He works in the medical field and also has come up against hospitals requiring that people entering have it. He was able to get a doctor's note explaining that he doesn't want it. Not sure exactly what the note said, because he has never had a reaction to a shot and no allergies. But the doctor did word it in a way that just said he doesn't agree with this shot. No problems anymore, he just has the note on file.

That said, try to find a doctor to support you. But if not, you do have a tough choice to make. Good luck.

heres how i see it.. youre right, it should be your choice wether you get the shot or not.. i mean if u get sick its youre problem not anyone else's. You shouldnt have to be forced to get the shot if you dont want it .. However (especially with the economy the way it is and how hard some people have it looking for a job, much less a job they like- i mean now a days people are taking whatever they can get) if you really like this job and want to keep it i say just suck it up and do it.

when i took my MIL to physical therapy, one of the therapists had a mask on and had to explain why, just as you do. i felt so angry on her behalf, as i do yours.
insanity.
i doubt you have any recourse, but for what it's worth, i think it stinks.
khairete
S.

I am in the middle here. On one side I cannot believe an employer can force you to put something into your body if you do not want it. On the other side I do not see the big deal. I also would rather a flu shot if I was working with lots of people. I will tell you I have a friend who turned completly holistic. She she is insane about it. I respect her choices. We were preg at the same time. She ate all organic was a germ nut and did not vaccinate either of her kids with any vaccines. She also breast fed untill 2yrs. Well both of her kids were born allergic to every single thing out there. They both have asthma. You name the virus they have had it. I ate everything when I was preg. I did not have caffiene alcohol or anything you are not suppose to but I was not strict with myself. I also only breast fed for 2 mos. My daughter has rarely been sick. She has had all her vaccines and the flu shot every yr. I think people are crazy to listen to these natural path holistic people. As my dr. Told me she went to medical school she has 30 yrs experience. She gives these vaccines to her own children. Why would we know more about them then drs?? So I guess my answer is this just relax a little and live your life. Its a flu shot. You may be overthinking this.

I know you've already received a lot of answers and even responded yourself so I'm not sure if you see my answer or not. Anyway...My hubby was in the military for 10 yrs and they always required he get the flu shot. Sure enough, every time he'd get the flu. Because of that, the kids and I don't get the flu shot. Sure, we sometimes get the flu anyway but we rarely get the full blown, lasts for days, awful flu. I don't have any advice for you but wanted to let you know I understand and feel the same about the shot. If, however, I was in your position I think I would suck it up and get the shot. I would definitely let my boss know that I wasn't very happy about it though.

We have a history of Guillain–Barré syndrome in our family, which can cause paralysis and can start with the flu shot, so I always use it as an excuse when I'm asked if I'm getting the shot. They say it's not caused by the immunization, but in our family member's case it most definitely was. I figure if he had trouble with the shot and ended up in the hospital, it might run in the genes that others will too.

I have to add that he is fine now..long road and very scary when he was battling it, but he fully recovered. He's now as active as before. So, I wanted you to know that if I had to get the shot for my job, I probably would..I'm sorry you have to worry though! Not fun.

This isn't meant to freak you out, I'm sure most people would be fine. It's good to have all the information though.

I prefer to avoid human contact and keep it simple. haha.

http://kellythekitchenkop.com/2012/02/healthcare-workers-...

The flu shot led to my grandma's death, I've never had one before that and never will. Me or my kids!

I would feel much the way you do, and from what I understand it's becoming a big mandate with hospitals. It's arguably to protect patients, but what about health care workers who are sensitive to components within vaccines?

If it were me I'd get an exemption and wear the mask, if that were an option.

You might want to read NVIC.org to see if there are any suggestions there.

I

I have never worked in the health care profession so I am just going to give you my "mom" opinion :)
All jobs require employees to follow the rules set forth by their administrators. If you don't like the rules I would get a different job...or I would opt out of the shot and wear the mask. I would suspect that you could get a doctor's note from your allergist or gen doctor fairly easily and inexpensively if you just explain the situation and your sensitivities/reactions and trepidation about getting the Flu shot.
I got the Flu shot exactly one time...during my first pregnancy 8 years ago. It did not harm me in any way. I have two children and they both get the Flu shot and more recently (last 2 years) the Flu mist. My daughter has never reacted badly to it. My son ALWAYS reacts to it! It ranges from once getting the full blown Flu to 2-5 days of low grade fever and just feeling icky. He is very fair skinned and also suffers from seasonal allergies. While we are all on the fair side he is the only with allergies...maybe a correlation, maybe not. In the past 8 years we have all had the full blown Flu once (except my son who got it 2x's) I don't believe the shot can protect you from the Flu rather it just helps your body identify it faster and therefore knock it out quicker...if it is one of the strains you received in the shot.
One thing you cannot depend on is that sick people will stay home when they are sick. They don't. Good luck with your decision.

If I had to venture a guess, I'd say that at least part of this new policy is a "cover your a$$" thing for the hospital, hence the mask requirement if you don't get the shot. I think they're just trying to protect themselves.

As far as the shot itself goes, most people have only mild reactions. You, since you have allergies/sensitivities to several things already, would be more likely to have an adverse reaction. Do you have any past documented reactions to vaccines of any kind?? If so, maybe you could get your Dr. to write an excuse note based on that as opposed to having to go in and be tested for sensitivities? I don't know if that's an option or not, but I hope you can get this figured out.

say you had a reaction in the past or that you are allergic to eggs - both are valid reasons to not get the flu shot.

Want to talk out of line? I can top yours. My ex-husband asked me...excuse me, told me to get a flu shot because his new wife had a compromised immune system and he didn't want her getting the flu. Keeping in mind I have seen her twice in a year, I think that request is out of line. Working in a hospital, that I get. I do, however, understand how you feel in principle, but I would probably do it for myself if I worked in a hospital, no one would have to ask me to!

I'm surprised that you can't opt out for personal reasons. It is a personal health decision. What if your religion prohibited you from getting a shot? That said, I don't think it's worth losing a job over. I've been on the fence about flu shots, ie if they work, but I don't think that they hurt. Good-luck.

Are you allergic to eggs?

Some answers suggest that you may be discriminated against. I'd be careful with that argument as you are being offered a reasonable accomodation if you don't want to get the vaccine-to wear the mask. It's only truly discriminatory if the hospital cannot show a reason why the shot is necessary ( and in this situation they can probably make a good faith showing) and they do not offer a reasonable accomodation for those who cannot get the vaccine which they are doing.

I'd also be careful getting a letter from a doctor saying that you can't get the vaccine because of allergies or some other condition. You'd stated that you've already provided evidence of getting all the childhood vaccinces and Hep B. Unless you are prepared to show how those vaccines are different that the flu shot/mist, you may have a problem if the letter is questioned.

From everything I have read and heard, the infected people can start shedding the germs even before showing symptoms so just staying home when you are sick doesn't work. In a hospital situation, you are around people who are already sick or have some issue that brings them there. Even inadvertently exposing them to the flu because you don't realize that you have it could severly compose them. Is that worth it?

I've gotten the flu shot every year for the last 8 years with no reaction beyond a sore arm. I do have have allergies but the shot has not caused any reaction. My kids get the shot/mist also and neither of them have had a reaction.

You should probably talk to your doctor about the safety and effectiveness of the shot then determine what you want to do.

From what I understand, "they" (the medical community) decides which strain or two they think is going to hit each year and manufacture the shot to fight those one or two strains. But there's lots of strains, and no one knows for sure which will flourish each year, so that's part of the reason people end up getting the flu even though they get the shot.

Also, there's a shot and a version you inhale through your nose. The shot is usually a dead virus, but the stuff you inhale is a LIVE virus!!!!! Seriously? Somebody thought this was a good idea? I always get super pressured at the pediatrician's to get the shots for my kids and I decline, then they push the inhaled version thinking I'm just avoiding it because I don't want my kids to have to suffer the pain of a shot. But the inhaled one is a live virus so if you're going to get sick from it, I can't help but think that way greatly increases your risk!

That said, the one and only year my husband got a flu shot, I thought he was going to die. He got really sick afterward, terrible fevers, aches, super high temps, lasted almost a week. Then he started having terrible pain in his neck.....I looked up his symptoms and they were very similar to menengitis!!!! And there's no way anyone will ever convince me that was not directly related to his flu shot! The man never gets sick, except for the one time he got the shot.

I don't know what you should do. I guess you know if you don't do it, you're life will pretty much be miserable or you'll get fired. I don't think that's right. I can't stand being forced to do something. But honestly, what are your options? You could try to get a lawyer to fight it for you, but I imagine you don't have a ton of $ to throw at that.

I guess you have to decide which you feel more strongly about. Keeping this particular job? Or not allowing someone to tell you what to do with your body? Do you have other employment options? If you're in the medical field, won't it be the same everywhere?

Good luck no matter what you decide. I don't know what I would do in your position.

Can''t you just lie?

Why yes, I got mine at the local Costco on Saturday so that's why it's not in my medical record...

Are you sure you're just not afraid of needles? :)