Need Breastfeeding Advice, Please Help!

Hi S.,
I'm sorry that you are having so much pain. I breast fed my two daughters and i remember also having pain the first couple of weeks. I used vitamin E oil on my nipples. I'd apply it following each feeding. I think a lot of my pain was caused by my daughters not latching on correctly. If you can stick it out for a little longer it will get easier and won't be painful anymore. good luck and congratulations!
E.

Go online and get in touch with LeLeche League, (Nursing Mothers).

I had a similar situation and the most annoying thing was everyone saying "just keep going, it will get better." It really does get better. I was in pretty bad pain for 6 weeks and I didn't really start enjoying it until 2-3 months, but it was worth it. I think once the baby's mouth gets bigger everything clicks into place. The biggest fallacy out there is that it doesn't hurt, because it does! I had a yeast infection inside the breast, and then mastitis that required surgery and am now feeding on only one side, but it really, really is worth it. Keep going and good luck! I have heard that fair skinned women have a harder time with pain during breastfeeding.

Oh, and it really does help to stay away from nursing bras, and too much Lansinoh. Just let them air out and don't wear a bra. Just put the tiniest bit of Lansinoh on the nipple.

Wow have you gotten the responses! I would say it is latch, despite what the lactation consultant said. The Ultimate Breastfeeding Book of Answers is a good place to start. When latched the baby's chin should touch your breast, not the nose, and this should create a open-pause-close type suck. It might take a day or two of good latch for your nipples to then heal and feel less sore. Thrush is more of a burning pain, sometimes there is white spots, Gentian Violet is over the counter at Target/walgreens. This helps a lot if it is thrush. THere are also some more rare conditions, such as Raynard's syndrome. Check out that book, it has a terrific amount of info and is an easy read. Good luck.
T.

Yes, it hurts, but hang in there, because it gets better. I had the hardest time nursing my son, who is now 13 months, but we are still at it and I wouldn't trade it for the world. Rub your breastmilk on your nipples and it will help a lot. Also, try to just feed a lot and not pump for a while, as pumping might be aggravating the problem. Let your breasts air dry after showers, do NOT use soap on your nipples, and after you feed him, let them air dry a bit. I actually had blisters on my nipples, but trust me, it gets better! Hang in there!!! :)

I am currently breast feeding my 2 month old (born Dec 7) and I would say that it took a good 6 weeks before all the pain was gone. I have 2 older children I also breast feed and I remember it taking until around the 2 month point before it didn't seem to be so much work, effort, pain, etc. With all three of them I remember coming to a point where I didn't think I could keep it up and I wanted to quit, but with encouragement I kept going and it got easier and enjoyable. So I encourage you to stick with it, it gets easier!!

I don't have any pain, so can't advise you there, but I do have the medela pump in style, and there is no problem with keeping up your milk supply with it. I had to return to work when my daughter was 2 weeks, and I breastfeed when I can, but have to pump a lot as well, and with the pump end up with about twice what she consumes.

Call a lactation consultant ASAP. I used Doris Christenson (sp?) and she makes housecalls. (and by the way for next time, you do NOT need to give your baby formula for jaundice. But that is for you to know to do more research on later...). It sounds like your babe's latch is off. Doris' rates are very reasonable and once you see her once, you can call all you want :)
Please call a laction consultant. That is where your answer lies. and if you don't get along with the first one, try to find another one (like any other healthcare provider, some you like, some you don't).
another good resource for breastfeeding is www.mothering.com. Go to the "discuss" tab and that is where the forums are. They have a couple of different breastfeeding forums that you will find when you scroll down, including one specifically for problems when breastfeeding.
Don't give up. Breastfeeding is not only an amazing nutritional gift to give to your loved one, but it also is an amazing bonding experience.

Hi S.,
I breastfed all three of my kids for what seemed like forever and one thing that I leared with the first one was that it's better to nurse frequently for short periods of time than infrequently for a long time. I had painful raw nipples for a while too and someone gave me this suggestion. It worked like a charm. Try letting him nurse for just a short while, give yourself a break and then come back to it a little while later for a short time again. He will still get the nourishment and you will get a chance to heal. It sounds like the breast therapy can help with that part. Good luck to you. My "babies" are now 20, 30 and 33!
K.
"Mother of Family Ideas"
www.winmarkcom.com

I know when I had my first son who is 3 now I had trouble breastfeeding. In the hospital they gave him a bottle right away and I didn't try breastfeeding until late that night. I struggled breastfeeding him for a month. He would fuse every time I tried breastfeeding and my nipples hurt so bad that they even started bleeding. I ended up with an infection as well. I ended up just formula feeding him after a month of pain. With my second son who is 6 months old now I have been breastfeeding him and he is great about it. I wouldn't let anyone give him a bottle in the hospital. In the hospital they had to give him formula because his sugar level was low. But I reguested they feed him with a syringe (medicine dropper). There was a huge difference between breastfeeding my boys. Now I breastfeed and formula feed my youngest and he has now problems going back and forth. The lactation consultant said that you should not introduce them to a bottle or pacifier. My sister has a three week old and she said both her nipples are very sore as well....she has been bottle feeding him and breastfeeding. I think babies suck different on the bottle and carry that over when they breatfeed. I would just try to keep breastfeeding without bottle feeding as long as you can so that maybe he'll train himself. I also use to apply ice packs before and after feedings to try an numb the pain.
I'm not sure this helped at all. I know how bad it can hurt...I wish you luck.

The biggest thing that I can recommend is that they get lots of 'air time' ... time to dry naturally. While that can be tricky when you have a busy life, so often we feed baby and then tuck back into the humid non-breathing environment of a bra with a thick, fluid absorbant breast pad, and that is just the environment to cultivate soreness.

I totally went through this... it does get better - particularly as baby gets bigger.

First off, I want to congratulate you on being determined to breastfeed your son, and stick with it, it will get better and you'll be so glad you did in the long run. Breastfeeding is one of the easiest ways you can mother your child. Take it one day at a time (or one feeding at a time) if that helps you make it through.

Now, to answer your question...feeling pain during breastfeeding is not normal. It's normal to feel some uncomfortableness at first, since breastfeeding is something new to your nipples, but it shouldn't be painful. Pain while breastfeeding is most often a sign of a poor latch, but could mean other things (like thrush, etc.).

PLEASE call La Leche League. It's free, and they will contact you within a day. They are wonderful, knowledgeable, kind, understanding women who can listen to your specific problems and help you out. I also recommend going to a monthly LLL meeting in your area, for support. It helps so much to meet other breastfeeding moms! Here is the website for the Arizona LLL: http://www.lllofaz.org/.

I have never pumped, so I don't know much about pumps, but I do know that the best way to maintain supply is by the baby; the baby is the most efficient.

Depending on where you live, I would be more than willing to visit and see how you're doing. I live in Central Phoenix. Feel free to email me if you'd like that, or if you'd want my phone number. (I'm not a lactation consultant, just a breastfeeding mom to my 11-month-old daughter.)

Hope you find this helpful, and good luck,
M.

You could try using a breast shield. You can get them at Target, Babies R Us, or just about anywhere. It is just a small rubber shield that goes over your nipple and the baby still nurses directly from you through the shield. That would help with the pain and you wouldn't have to pump. The only problem is that your baby may get hooked and insist on using it even after the pain has gone away. You may have to use it every time you nurse from then on... It would be inconvenient to have to wash the shield after each feeding, but probably more convenient than pumping. I have never used one myself, but know it worked for a couple friends.

You could try using a nipple shield. It is a nipple shaped plastic covering you put directly on your breast between you and your baby. I used it, and later when my sister was having the same trouble, she tried it too, and loved it. You can get them at Babiesrus. They come in small, medium and large depending on your nipple size. It is important you get the right size for you. They are very cheap so it might be worth a try.

Hi S.,

Did the doctor check for mastitis? It is an infection in the breast which makes breastfeeding very painful. Maybe that is what your doctor considered a yeast infection. Antibiotics are necessary to clear it up.

Good luck.

L.

I suppose you could try numbs it between feedings, then wash it off. Try to feed for shorter amounts of time but more often. But I recommend you look up the La Leche League, a breast feeding support group that has been around for 40 or more years. They will know what to tell you.

No one ever tells us that breast feeding is going to hurt, It did with both my children, but my nipples did toughen up in about 6 weeks. There's lots of benefits to brest feeding, one is not having to buy formula, and breast milk just grows smarter healthier children. Breast fed babies tend to be slimmer adluts too. So don't give up, and call the La Leche League for more expert help.

I feel your pain.

I had my second daughteron January 20th and my nipples still hurt. It definitely takes a while. It is hard for them to heal when they are nursing so much especially if you let them sit there and suckle for comfort. (use you as a pacifier) Keep using the Lansinoh. Use frozen peas (as ice packs)to soothe painful nipples in between feedings. Once he is on a schedule with less feedings and longer times in between feeding then your breast won't hurt as much. Mine are killing me by the end of the night but when she sleeps for that four to five hour stretch they have a chance to recover from the long day of on-demand feeding. It is so much better for him if you can stick with it and cheaper for you. There is nothing wrong with supplimenting with formula if you just can't take the pain and need to skip a meal with him. My friend couldn't get her baby to latch on so she decided to pump as long as she could until she dried up......well she was able to go for the entire year. She was a pumping Nazi though. Pumping all the time, but it worked. The In Style is the pump she had. good luck

I was sore for 6 weeks. Hang in there!

Hang in there!!!!! I distinctly remember that after 8 weeks it became just about pain free, and the most convenient thing in the world, not to mention the best thing for your baby! Also, get one of those Boppy nursing pillows from target if you don't have one already. It helped me be less sore, because baby stayed in one position during nursing. I used an olive oil based cream that I got from wild oats - I think it was called nipple butter - it helped!!!!! Good luck!!!! Pumping always made things worse for us, so my advice is to get established without pumping, trying nursing every 1 1/2 to 2 hours, and after you've got your supply established try pumping again, if you need to. I nursed my daughter until she was 1 (gradually tapering off between 10 mos and 1 year), and she is the healthiest child I know (she's 2 now).

Nipple pain is almost always because of an improper latch. If you have ruled out yeast for sure, I would check with another lactation consultant. Some consultants have never breastfed themselves, and all one has to do to become one is take a class on it. I would seek out one who has definitely breastfed themselves, or have a friend who has breastfed come help you. You may start with a proper latch, then be holding your baby incorrectly. That would cause the latch to slip.

Hope you start feeling better! Keep up the good work. I know breastfeeding is tough. Right around week 6 is when it gets easier, then it's great from there!

T.

Hi S.,

I am a 40yr old SAHM with my 1st child who just turned one. I also happened to be one of those people whos nipples hurt while breast feeding. I did not get raw but it did hurt for a while. I think it was a month or two. It sounds like you have checked into everything to rule out problems so I would say just give it a little more time. If you are producing plenty of milk, your nipples will get used to it in a few weeks.

I am still breastfeeding. Now I only have discomfort when she has emptied my breasts.

Stick w/ it- read Nursing Companion - it is EXCELLENT and will support the stage you're in. It didn't seem like it would ever stop hurting - I think I even went into two months or more. Everyone always feels like quitting - stay strong. The closeness with another human being is worth it any day.

Hello S.,
I went through the same problem with my third child and the reason for that was that I did not get my breasts ready for breastfeeding the third time thinking that they should be hardened enough. Next time make sure that you roughen up your nipples while in the shower with a face cloth, just rubbing them harder than normal. My daughter was told my her doctor that it could start early labor but I don't believe that. I would treat my nipples with a lotion that has lanolin in it as lanolin is the only ingredient that would actually help the moisture of the lotion to penetrate the skin. Hope this helps.
Silvia

Hello. I had a simmilar situation happen to me last year. I had twins and I had a really hard time with breastfeding. My nipples became very sore and I got a yeast infection also. I finally decided not to continue trying breastfeeding and I strictly pumped. I rented a symphany breast pump from Bestfed and it was the best thing I did. My nipples stopped hurting and my milk supply was huge. I was able to feed both of my babies and had a freezer full of milk. I pumped every 4 hours during the day and every 6-8 hours at night. I did this for 1 year! I had a medula pump but i wasn't able to use it that frequently because it made my nipples sore and my milk supply wasn't as abundant. Good Luck!

Hi S.,
I also had painful, cracked, sometimes bleeding nipples when my now 11 month old began breastfeeding. This lasted until she was about 3 weeks old and it is completely normal, even though it may not seem that way. No ointment worked for me either. Only time and sunshine did the trick. I called my midwife distraught about not being able to enjoy the experience of this bond with my baby, and she recommended that i find a private corner in my back yard and expose my nipples to direct sunshine for 10-15 min twice a day. This felt wonderful! The ointments seemed to keep my nipples moist which slowed the healing, but the sunshine dried them just enough (don't go more than 15 min)..and I healed within a week...and breastifeeding slowly became less and less painful and now I continue to enjoy this priceless gift of nourishing and bonding with my little girl. I really hope this helps you...don't give up! Breastfeeding is beautiful!

Ok let me try to help, first pump and breast feed do what you have to make the experience what you want it to be. You can give the baby the bottle every other time so you can start healing your nipples… ok to heal go and get tea bags just regular Lipton HOT tea bags run them under hot water and stand over the sink and use them as hot compresses on your nipples. It feels good, something in the tea helps heal you and it won’t hurt the baby. Do that as many times as you need. I did this all three times I breast feed. After a couple of times you might get a kind of film on your nipples but that is also the healing just let hot water run over your self and it will come off. I know it sounds weird but it worked for me. Ok then go to Walgreen’s or any store and in the isle with the baby stuff look by the breast pads, and get the soothing gels. They work great!!! They are kind of expensive so re uses them. Cut them, or what I did was used them and when they dried out around the edges I would just cut the dried parts off and continue to use them you can stretch the life out. And I promise you will start healing. Keep up with it and don’t give up. But the most important thing is your baby getting your milk!! If you cant get better and you give up on breast feeding, continue pumping and give it in bottle. You will always have supply pumping is not going to slow it down. I have had 3 girls, and I couldn’t have all of them on the breast so I pumped a lot!! Try some of the things I said. And if anything get the gels they are awesome, the creams don’t work but these do! Good luck. Dena

You know I had the same scenario with my son. And I wish there was some comforting advice I could give you but I dont. The only thing that I can tell you is that your nipples will heal just give it some time and keep applying your Lanolin. My problem lasted close to 2 months then they got used to the tugging and things got better. Good Luck.

Hi S.!

I feel your pain. You might want to make sure that the baby is latching on correctly because it can be excruciating when the baby is sucking just on the nipple alone. His little lips should be almost completely over the entire areola not just the nipple itself. In order to make sure you acheive the perfect lach you might want to try the following.

1. Position the baby on his side so she is directly facing you, with his tummy close to yours. It might help to use a pillow to help prop up the baby and make sure you bring the baby to you and that you are not leaning in towards your babt.

2. Place your thumb and fingers around your areola and tilt your baby's head back slightly and tickle her lips with your nipple until he starts rooting (opeing his mouth wide)

3. Help him place the breast into his mouth by placing his lower jaw on first, well below the nipple and even or close to the edge of the areola.

4. Tilt his head forward, placing his upper jaw deeply on the breast. Make sure he takes the entire nipple and at least 1 1/2 inches of the areola in his mouth.

You might also want to try Lansinoh cream on the nipple to prevent dry, cracked and painful nipples.

I really hope this helps!! GOOD LUCK!!

Always,
A.

S. --

I think I know exactly what is wrong and how to fix it because I had a very similar experience.

When babies are born, they learn to suckle properly by doing it. When your son was born, he was first fed from a bottle, and never learned the correct technique. By luck, you, personally, let your milk down easily, so he can get all he wants by "chewing" on you. It's fine for him, but very bad for you!

My daughter did something similar. She was never given a bottle, but she has a disability and had weak muscles. It was my La Leche League leaders who realized what she was doing and taught me how to train her to nurse properly.

I became a leader myself and specialized in teaching parents how to teach their babies to nurse properly. It's very easy, but just takes a little time. Plenty of babies need to learn this, because some are separated from their mothers by illness at birth, and others, like your son, are fed first from a bottle.

Write to me directly through MamaSource so I can give you more information. You can also call La Leche League and see if there is someone in your area who can show you what to do in person.

Hi S.!
I have breastfed my first child for one year with no problems. Then, my second child was born with a rare skin blistering condition and the positioning was too painful for her so she could not nurse. I was so concerned about her getting breast milk and keeping her immune system strong that I pumped for her and gave her all breast milk via bottle. Then, miraculously around 4 months she started nursing and still is doing just fine at 8 months. You can absolutely keep up your milk supply with a medela pump in style. I used to pump approximately 4 times. Infants 0- 12 months will eat anywhere up to 30 ounces per day (because they start solids eventually so the supply won't likely increase too dramatically as they get older), so that might help as far as knowing what to pump. It is definitely a challenge to pump and feed, but it will help you be relieved and you angel can still get breast milk. The bottom line is breastfeeding will be better for your baby and also decrease your risk of several types of cancer. It also helps with initial weight loss, so if you can hang in there, pumping would definitely work with a great pump.
Best of luck!!

I am so sorry for your pain, S.. OUCH. I would contact La Leche League if I were you. They are great woman with good advice. OR there is a store in scottsdale called Mothers Milk Boutique. Its on the corner of Scottsdale Road and Shea I think. Anyway, they have a lactation consultant there. Maybe it has to do with how your baby is latching on. No one should feel pain associated to breastfeeding.

Good Luck!

Oh my gosh, this brings back all sorts of nightmares for me! First of all thrush is EXTREMELY hard to get rid of. Treatment is on going and constant. I had the same problem with thrush in the milk ducts and it felt like broken glass coming out and I was so sore all the time! You have to use bleach on anythng that touches the baby's mouth and your breast milk every time. Pacifiers, bleach every use and throw them away! Thrush hides in all the crevices and can't guarantee getting it out with bleach. For you, you need to take diflucan for like 2 weeks straight, you have to use grapefruit seed oil on your nipples every time you nurse and a bunch of other stuff. I will look and see if I still have those instructions for you. It is incredibly hard to get rid of it and it hurts soooooo bad. There is alot of junk you have to do to get rid of it from you and baby because you pass it back and forth everytime you nurse. You also need to use nystatin meds for baby as directed by doctor. If you use any medicine orally with your baby you will give thrush back everytime you put it back in the mouth, so you have to throw it away. Try using a syring that you can throw away after everyuse and pour the medicine into a small medicine cup to draw it up to prevent syringe reinfection. Do not ever put the syringe back into the med bottle either. The best way that I had to deal with the nipple pain of nursing because I too had blisters and all that is to lay off the one side of nursing until it cleared up a little and just pumped that side while nursing on the other. It sucked in the beginning because both hurt and I just had to suck it up until the one side cleared up and then can used the side until the other cleared up or was less sore. I had active thrush for nearly 3 months, but after I started treatment it definitely got better. I breastfed my son for about a year, so it is definitely possible to overcome it. Keep it dry as best as you can. You can use nipple guards to help air them out that can be bought at babies r us. That helped too. If your nipples leak get the wet breast pads off as quickly as possible too. You can e-mail me at ____@____.com with questions and I will look thru my paperwork for you. I feel for you and do not mind looking around for it for you! Also make sure you are having the baby latch on properly. Your entire nipple and brown area around the nipple needs to go into the baby's mouth when you nurse. The tugging you feel should mainly be on that outside part and not your nipple when you nurse. If you are feel it on the actual nipple, stick your finger in baby's mouth and release baby's suction BEFORE your pull baby off nipple and try again. Keep trying again and again until baby latches on properly. Another reason for blisters for me was the pump shield was too small and it rubbed it raw. I had to go with the largest breast shield to help and boy did it make a huge difference! Your nipples should not touch the shields at all. Lastly, make sure you only keep your baby on each side for no more than 15 minutes. I did 10 minutes on each side and that was it! It helped tremendously! They like to suck for comfort more than eating after that... I also suggest that you talk to lactation consultant at St. Joseph's Hospital and have them check to make sure you are properly fitted for the shields and that you are latching well. Goood luck and e-mail me with any questions. I'd be happy to help because not to omnay people know about thrush and how to treat it in the breasts!

S., breastfeeding should not be painful at all. Sounds to me like your baby is not latching on properly, maybe not taking enought of your nipple in. Don't give up! Breastfeeding is a wonderful experience when it is working right and it is so good for your baby and for you and the bond between you. My now 4 year old never had a bottle, I mean not even one time. Research on the internet or find a nurse or midwife that can work with you. You will not regret making this work and you might if you give up now. Good luck to you and congratulations on your new baby.

Run - do not pass go, do not collect $200 dollars - run....

Back to the lactation consultant and if she still tells you the latch is OK, then see someone else.

At this point, if you are still dreading nursing, something is wrong!

Lots of these moms have given you great advise for healing yourself, but fixing the problem HAS to come first!

If you'd like a referral, let me know ###-###-#### or check the referral list on my web site. www.everymotherandchild.com

Hi S.,
I don't have an answer to your question, but I know a lactation consultant that may. She's great, and was a RN for 20 years, lactation consultant for 20. Her name is Doris Christiansen her contact info is at www.pump-n-go.com
I remember the cringing, and my baby was okay at latching, it was my positioning, etc. that was wrong. Doris came over and showed me, and answers any questions I have. She also has a mom's group in Chandler and East Mesa. Give her a call! Good luck, hang in there, and it's really hard to do it alone, but remember, you don't have to. ~L.

Hi S.,

I see you've had tons of responses, so maybe this will duplicate... but I have had a very similar experience with my 4-mo-old. He is my 4th child, and I've had various problems with nursing each time. Each time up till now it was a bit easier, and I had hoped this time would be the best, but no such luck! The good news is that it's gotten much better, but I'm still not completely pain free all the time. One thing that helped me a lot is a cream called "Neuman's Nipple Cream". My midwife sent me to a compounding pharmacy where they mixed it for me - it's a combination of antibacterial, antifungal and pain relieving ingredients. I'd be happy to give you the formula if you're interested - Reed's Compounding Pharmacy in Tucson is very familiar with it too.

Good luck! I really think the benefits of nursing make it all worth it.

-S.

HANG IN THERE! It gets better after about 4-5 weeks, your nipples will finally toughen up. It hurt like hell for me too, and nothing made it better except time. I don't think you are doing anything wrong, and soon you will stop cringing when it's time to feed him and actually look forward to it. The idea that breastfeeding shouldn't hurt is a HUGE MYTH! It gets better, I promise, so hang in there.

I have successfully breastfed 5 children, so I hope what I have to say will help. I have had everything from yeast infections to mastitis to cracked nipples. I usually have sore nipples for about a month after I start nursing. I didn't experience cracked (and horribly painful!) nipples until my 5th. I was so sad because I didn't think I would be able to continue nursing. My doctor prescribed me something called Newman's cream. He said it contains yeast infection cream and an antibiotic. It's kind of a catch all for breast soreness. Well it ended up being heaven-sent! I had gotten to the point where I was only nursing once a day and I was giving her a bottle the rest of the day. After applying the cream (which I didn't have to wash off) several times a day, I eventually was able to nurse full time. She doesn't take a bottle at all anymore. I love breastfeeding and I did all I could to make it work. Good luck and I really believe that sore nipples will soon be in your past!!

Hi there,
I feel your pain!! My nipples had excruciating pain for more than 6 weeks, especially during latch on. I basically just told myself that it would be over soon and stuck with it. It helps if you use lansinoh on your nipples before and after you feed (perfectly safe for babies). This is basically the time when your nipples are getting used to someone sucking on them non-stop! It does get better. I'm going on 2 years of b-feeding with my son and it is the most satisfying thing I've ever done. It does get better and you know you are doing what is the absolute best for your baby! Did you know that when you kiss your baby, his/her cells get on your lips and it send a signal to your body to make milk specifically made for your baby! It is amazing what a woman's body can do. You may want to consider going to a La Leche League meeting in your neighborhood because I can assure you that you are not alone and the support for me was incredible!! Good luck!

If it's thrush, putting yogurt on your nipples will help.

I had a similar problem with extremely painful nursing (believe me, I know how painful it can be) that was due to our baby nursing for too long (an hour at a time). Our ped suggested limiting his feedings to 20 minutes at a time and then making him wait half an hour between feedings at minimum. That cleared up nursing pain for me almost instantaneously. I don't know how common a problem that is, but I wanted to let you know.

Have courage! Nursing is wonderful once you work through the problems!! It took me 2-3 months to get the hang of breastfeeding, and I wanted to quit many times, but I am SO thankful I didn't. Our 20-month old is now still nursing, and he has been extremely healthy (2 colds in his whole life), and I know it is healthy for me as well, and a great bonding experience. Good luck to you!!

I have had four babies- my fourth was born end of December. I breastfed all four, and I had the same thing happen to me. It took about a month for my nipples to get used to the friction of nursing and start to heal up properly. My son is just two months old and the pain is gone. I also had scabbing every time, even with the Lansinoh.
This time the nurse gave me some gel pads to put on my nipples- they healed significantly between nursings. They kept my nipples from scabbing up again too. My son nursed just about every hour because I couldn't keep him on very long because of the pain. Maybe you could call L&D and see where you could get some of those gel pads- the nurse gave me two extra packs to take home. They were the only things that seemed to really work and soothe my nipples. I didn't even use the second pack. I hope that helps.:) Nursing is a skill that has to be learned by both Mom and baby-always took us at least a month to work out all of the kinks. It never 'came naturally' to me!:P I have seen so much helpful advice on here-you are sure to get some great suggestions! Hang in there!

I had terrible pain with my son because he had such a strong suck. I bled through my bra and my shirt because the sores were so bad. It eventually got better and now (11 weeks later) I have absolutly no pain. If you can get through it then that is great, however I just learned that there is help. My neice had a baby 6 weeks after me and her lactation specialist gave her nipple gaurds. They shield the nipple while still giving the baby plenty of milk. I think that if you called la leche they could probably know where to get them locally or you can buy them @ http://www.aventamerica.com/products/breastfeeding/breast...
Good luck

S.,

I went through the same ordeal. The lactation consultant agreed that we were doing it right, the lanisoh and breast therapy did not work, etc.

One suggestion that helped a little was to soak my breasts in hot water (it feels silly to have a bowl up to my breast, but it feels better.) and then to let them air dry.

One other thing that most of the experts were not familiar with was my skin problems. I have Psoriasis. During my pregnancy it all but went away, but after my daughter was born I was hit with the worst case ever! Here we are 6 months later and I am still covered head to toe!

I don't know if it will help you, but I went to a dermatologist and the ointment I was prescribed was safe for baby and has totally worked. The rash is starting to fade from open scabs to mild bumps and the pain is gone.

Another thing that I did during that really bad period was I went to Best Fed which is a nursing support store. They sell pumps, pump parts and bras and clothing, but more than that they are a fabulous emotional support. I think the nursing group still meets on Tuesdays in Glendale.

When I went they checked the flange size I was using and told me I was ripping my breast because the part was too small for me. Some of the pain I had been experiencing when my daughter ate from me was that I had cuts right at the base of each nipple.

I hope some of this helps you.

F. G

My first bit of advice is don't give up. I have 4 kids, 14,11,9,almost 3. I nursed them all. ( #3 for only 8 weeks because I was diagnosed with cancer and had to stop. Now he is the child with asthma and peanut allergies) The first 6 weeks were hard and I would cry and cringe too. I had the nipple pain but it was also the pain from the let down that hurt me. They say the more kids you have the stronger it is. I took my pain pills until it all subsided at about 6-7 weeks. I very much believe in the benefits of nursing. Not only the health benefits, but the comfort to the baby and the bonding between mother and child. Keep putting the breast therapy on. Does the pain subside after he latches on or does it hurt the whole time? You could also try a different hold to see if a different position would make a difference. I also did better if I leaned a little foreward as they latched on instead of leaning back on a couch. I hope some of this helps. Keep trying.

I know so many people that have had problems similar to this. You are not alone!!! I could go on to tell you horror stories, but I don't think that will help. I was very lucky with the latching and the pain issues, but I did start pumping exclusively once I went back to work. I have a Medella pump and it worked out well for me, but once I got off the regular schedule of pumping 5+ times per day my milk supply dramatically decreased. I think it all depends on how easy you can express milk with a pump on whether it will continue to produce regularly and in the quantity you need. One thing you may want to think of is feeding from the breast twice a day and pump the remainder of the feedings that day and see if your production goes down. This will give your nipples a bit of a break and a way to test it out and keep a log of the amounts you get and see how it works. Not like I am an expert or anything, but that is how it worked for me.

Also, just keep in mind, this is YOUR body and YOUR child so don't let anyone ever make you feel less of a mom if you can't continue. If breast feeding is causing you this much pain than it is surely causing you to hate the idea of feeding your child and stressing when the time nears. I personally feel that is more unhealthy for you and the bond between you and your child than moving to suppliments. Like I said though... these are oppinions and not professional advice... just my two cents from learning from what my friends and family have had to endure.

Hi S.,

I also did not read all the responses but wanted to share my story with you in case it helps.

I too had horrible, horrible nipple pain after a couple weeks into nursing. No thrush, saw lactation consultant - he was latching on properly. She gave me nipple shields to try. My issues as far as I can tell were from my son's strong suction which was literally pulling my nipples off - I had tears on both nipples about 1/4" long. The shields did not prevent the pulling of the nipples so I didn't use those long. My doc advised it was ok to continue to nurse even with the tears - if I could deal with pain. They did close up after about a week or so and I was able to nurse him with no other issues until he was about 15 months old.

I could not locate a vegan product to apply so had to go the more natural approach. I read that cabbage leaves helped to sooth breast/nipples. I have also read that you should NOT USE CABBAGE unless you are attempting to wean - something about it causes your milk to dry up. Check it out with a lactation consultant. Lucky for us that did not happen - but I did get serious relief from the leaves in my nursing bra. SO perhaps lettuce leaves might help? Or devise some other cold compress-type to put on after feeding?

Also, I could not pump as that increased the suction/pain. It was much less painful (and quicker) to just nurse him.

People all around me kept telling me to give up - I was REALLY against formula so I just kept fighting through it one feeding at a time. I made it through eventually. I am not a saint, just determined. Just remember, do what you think is best for you and your baby.

Good luck! =)

Snaps to you mama for continuing to breastfeed! I also had a very difficult time with my son (raw cracked nipples and thrush), and it took several weeks before I was pain free (about 6, but each day it got better and better).

As far as practical immediate advice; Soothies (sold at Walgreens) or another type of gel pad (I think Gerber has one that I have seen at Target) is really (really really) helpful in the treatment of raw nipples.

Second, be persistent! Contact the certified lactation consultant again and tell her what is going on again. Contact a different lactation consultant if you feel she is not listening to you. Consider hiring a private practice lactation consultant, one that will come to your home. They can be a little pricy (I paid $90, she spent 2 hrs with me), but if your experience ends up being like mine, it will be the best money you ever spent.

Third, learn all you can about breastfeeding. I found the La Leche League mom-to-mom line to be so helpful. You can find someone in your area thru their web page, http://www.llli.org/ under resources. Also, the book The Nursing Mother's Companion by Kathleen Huggins, RN is an excellent resource to have.

Finally, mentally I promised myself to take it one day at a time. If I thought of breastfeeding for a week, that would have sent me over the edge. The pain was just so intense. But thinking I only have to breastfeed today and then tomorrow I will decide if I want try another day or quit enabled me to go on. I ended up breastfeeding my son for 15 months, and 13.5 of those months were totally pain free!

I know it is hard but keep your chin up (you can do this, you just had a baby, you can do anything!)

I think an important question to ask is why it is so important to you to breast feed. I had similar problems and I need to be quite frank with you, the pain only stopped after I finally stopped breast feeding. My first child I lasted about 5 weeks and finally I went to sleep. While I was asleep my husband gave my son a bottle and that was the end of it. Motherhood was much healthier for both me and my son. I had the breastfeeding issue resolved for me by my doctor due to some pretty severe birthing complications with my second child. I have two very healthy boys now teenagers who had no apparent issues with being bottle fed. There are wonderful formula products out there.
The next question is.....Is your baby gaining weight, if he isn't then I suggest you consider doing whatever you need to to make sure that your little one is actually eating. We live in a generation where breastfeeding can be an issue of peer pressure and not what is necessarily best for the individual. I think it is wonderful to breast feed if that is what is working for you, but when it is not working, all the attachment and health benefits get skewed. If you are so afraid of the pain you will experience your child will experience your anxiety over feeding him. It will not be a pleasant experience for either of you. I trust that you will do what is best for you. Our advice is only that advice. Take a deep breath talk it over with your husband and go from there. Just a little FYI my first son cut his first tooth at 6 weeks about the time that I had gotten used to the idea that he wasn't going to be nursing. His doctor apologized to me for pushing the breast feeding so vehemently. He was teething instead of eating and he was using my breast as a teething ring. OUCH!!!

better than a nipple gaurd and easier.
Just buy some regular silicone bottle nipples and cut off the tip -not too far down they are inexpensive so you can experiement with how much to cut if needed. Then hold it on your breast and baby's mouth goes on the silicone nipple! What a relief and it gives you time to heal

I had similar problems with my first son. One thing that I found to help was called Soothies. They were little cool pads to put on your nipples and they really did help. I can't say if they are still being made because it was over two years ago now. I could only find them at Wal-Greens in the baby aisle and they were hard to find because they were kind of hidden on the botton shelf. They were kind of expensive but they really helped with the pain. Hopefully you can get rid of the pain I know it is not fun.

I had that happen with my second kiddo. You and the baby need to both be treated for thrush. I had it so bad, I had to take five days of diflucan (normal is one) in order to clear it up. Otherwise, you and baby just pass it back and forth again and again. Breastfeeding should not hurt. Good luck, don't give up!

S.,

Oh I can so relate! My daughter is 16 months old and I just weened her but let me tell you the first 6-8 weeks were absolute HELL! I cried everytime we nursed for at least 6 weeks. I had clogged milk ducts and an infection or two. All I can tell you is keep seeing the lactation specialists (they really do help) and keep going no matter what. The pain is terrible but once you get past the pain it is the most amazing thing in the world. The latch is very important and make sure his mouth is big as he latches on! See if you doctor can give you anything for the pain until you get past the hump. Just remember a few things, you are doing the best thing for your baby and for your own health. Also, once the pain stops it really never comes back and only get more blissful. Good luck!

Hi S.,
I had breast pain when I fed my son for 6 months. I didn't realize it was mastitis! If I had just gone to the Dr and gotten some fluconazole pills I would have been better and continued to breastfeed the whole year! So, when my daughter was born in 2006 I was determined to BF the whole year. I had a lot of pain again, from clogged ducts to mastitis, so I called my Dr and he prescribed Fluconazole. It worked! The latch-on pain went away after a month or two, but it does take a couple of months to adjust. If you really want to keep at it, then just bear through the latch-on pain until the baby is 2 months old. If you are still having pain after that point, you may want to consult your doctor or lactation nurse. Good luck to you!

Congratulations on your baby! I just had a baby on November 26th. He was also born early, and I've been struggling with sore nipples. But, I got some fabulous advice that I thought I'd share with you. First off, check to see if your baby has white spots in his mouth. My baby had Thrush. The Pediatrician gave us some medicine for it, and that cleared it up immediately. I also got some nipple shields. These are wonderful! They allow your nipples to airdry and heal between feedings. Good luck!

Didn't have time to read all the advice, but the best store around is: Baby, Mother & More ###-###-####
SE Corner Gilbert Rd and Southern Ave.
The owner is Chuck Bond.
The nurse is Mary Wisneski, LPN, CLC Her phone number is ###-###-####.

Call them and ask any questions...they are very helpful and knowlegeable. They also have the best prices in town for almost everything. I really like his honesty and willing to answer any question, no matter how minor.

Also I was advised by Chuck to pump in between feedings, say after 45 minutes. That will make your body think that you need to produced more and allow you to save some extra. It worked for me when I got the flu and couldn't produce enough milk to supplement from my reserves in the freezer.

I've been nursing my first child for 7.5 months.

Good Luck!

HI
You can buy a nipple guard.. it fits right over your own nipple and that way you are still nursing but you wont hurt and you will have time to heal. It works so great! I have used it many times and I have four kids. You can buy them at Babies-r-us and I think Target or Walmart. You can find a lot of info about it online--it worked for me and I think it would be better to use one instead of giving up or having to pump again. I hoped that helped. Good Luck:)

S.,

I am so sorry.... I feel your pain! I have 3 girls whom I nursed. The first one I am pretty sure I had thrush w/ but I have other issues as well & it hurt every time I nursed her! There were a few months when I nursed her that I cried the WHOLE time she ate! It was awful! However, I got through it & went 13 months.... the pain never went away completely. My 2nd girl was pretty good. My 3rd one hurt on & off for the whole year that I nursed her. My dr. couldn't help & she was latching on correctly. I didn't have the scabbing w/ my 3rd, but had it at the beginning w/ my 1st. Some one said my milk ducts may be kinked & the milk makes it hurt.... I don't know. So all that to say, I think there are some women who hurt. I decided to fight through it & was able to nurse my girls for their first year. If you are unable to continue, don't feel like you are doing something wrong..... you have given your son a great start!

- C.

Hi S.,

I had the same problem w/ my 1st child and it was a "positioning" issue. Have your lactation nurse from the hospital explain how to properly position your baby. Essentially, you need to make sure your baby is perpendicular to your breast (straight on) and not shifted up or down in any way.

In the meantime, you can use "Lansinoh" cream between feedings to soothe your nipples.

Good luck! :)
G.

I"m not sure what other advice has been given, but are there other signs that your baby is getting enough (latched on correctly)...is he content between feedings, is he gaining weight, etc... My first baby I thought was latched on properly but it hurt so bad and he cried all the time. Finally, I realized after my mom said he looked like he was losing weight, I called a lactation specialist and the poor kid was starving. I don't feel that all lactation specialists are equal. Mine measured how much he got when I nursed him and looked at my nipples and looked at his latch and she knew it wasn't right. She worked with me for an hour to get his latch right. And then we saw her one more time and then he nursed until he was 16 months old with never a problem. They might have a little pain if latched correctly, but they shouldn't be raw. I would get a second opinion from another lactation consultant to find out for sure.

Hi S.,
I'm Sue, I'm a breast feeding counselor so I can give some limited advice.
To start with if your nipples are sore the best thing you can do is when your son has finished a feed just leave your breasts alone. Let the milk air dry on the nipples, don't wipe, wash or put cream on. The best thing for sore nipples is breastmilk! Leave your breasts exposed to the air as much as humanly possible and hopefully that will allow them to heal a little more.
I would say that everything you are doing is right. I think you may be sore because your milk supply isn't quite up where it should be yet which may because you supplemented early.
My advice would be to put your son to the breast as much as possible. Check out the website www.breastfeeding.com to see video clips of correct latching and positioning. If possible I'd recommend pumping in between feeds too for a while. That way your body will get the signal that you need to produce more milk and will act accordingly.
The pump will help stimulate milk production but it's not as effcient as your baby at getting milk from your breast! So I'd definitely recommend doing both for a couple of weeks to bump up the supply.
Sometimes, if the supply is lower than the baby really wants then the he will want to be at the breast longer at feeds which can make you sore.
Check to make sure your getting lots of wet and pooey diapers as this is sign that he's getting plenty of milk.
Like others have told you it's usually down to the latch when it comes to sore nipples so make sure you look at the video clips to see that you've got him latched properly.
If you are still having problems I would HIGHLY recommend calling a lactation consultant and getting a home visit. From experience I've found that the store, Bestfed
###-###-#### ebestfed.com
2025 S Alma School Rd, Mesa, AZ 85210
gives excellant advice and can put you in touch with a lactation consultant.
Drink A LOT of water everyday and maybe some Fenugreek herbal tea to help with supply. Rest as much as possible and try to eat a healthy balanced diet. This isn't the time to go on a diet.
Also joining a breastfeeding moms group would be really helpful for you I think.
Hope that helps. I wish you the best of luck.
Sue Campbell www.letgowiththeflow.neomassage.com

Hi S.,
If it ends up you can't take the breastfeeding, you can keep up your milk supply by renting a hospital grade pump from a breast feeding store. I go to Baby, Mother and More in Mesa at Gilbert and Southern. The pump rental is $30 a month and will keep up your supply as if your baby is breastfeeding. Good luck.

Hi S.,

If your son is latching on correctly and it is a matter of raw nipples, and if creams aren't working, you might try the medela nipple shields. These worked fantastic for me when I was breatfeeding my daughter. They're a very thin silicone shield that goes over the nipple. There are two different styles and one has a cut-out so the baby remains in contact with your skin. I found them very easy to use and my daughter didn't mind them at all. Below is the link to their website so you can see what I'm talking about (i think it's a little hard to picture).

http://www.medelabreastfeedingus.com/products/breastfeedi...

Good luck and good on ya for stickin' with it!!

Casie

Congrats on your new baby. I had a baby boy about the same time. I am not sure if you've already tried this but it worked for me use lanilin it comes in a tube called lan. you just put it on and let it dry it really saved me with my second son

Dear S.,
OH my heart goes out to you! Usually the reason for prolonged nipple pain is incorrect positioning, or yeast. I would consider getting another opinion on the positioning. You might try contacting LaLeche League, an organization that supports breastfeeding moms. There must be local leaders here. I found them very useful for myself years ago, and the only leaders were available only by phone. When I had this problem, I gritted my teeth through it, but I really encourage you to call LaLeche League for their advice. It is free!

It took a while for me to get over the pain. I was calling many different breast-feeding support lines and they all said the same thing: "It should only hurt if he is latched on incorrectly." So I would pull him off and try it again. I don't remember how long it hurt, but I don't think I was able to lay on my stomach until around 2 months. And, I don't think I was feeding him incorrectly, but I was cracked and bleeding some days. It just took time and then suddenly it didn't hurt at all.

You coud have thrush and the antibiotics didn't treat it.

Do your nipples sting/have shooting pains, even after nursing? Are they shiny and pink? These are signs of thrush.

I would recommend trying gentian violet. You can get it from a pharmacist without a prescription. It is a purple dye. Mix it with equal parts of water and use a q-tip to apply to your nipple before feeding. Also swab babies mouth. Then nurse as normal. Make sure you are changing nursing pads at every feeding, washing bras in scolding hot water, and boiling any nipples to bottles or pacifiers you might be using on a nightly basis.

The dye worked miracles for me, twice now. The first time my infection was horrible, and by the end of the first day, I felt HUGE relief! The second time it kept the thrush at bay.

Be careful though, as the dye will turn everything purple, including our nipples nad your babies mouth. Diluting the solution with water makes it not as bad though :)

Let me know if you have any questions.

PS-it does hurt even in they are latched correctly, but you shouldn't be in tears or have scabs.

It sounds like your baby is not latching on correctly. I would advise you to contact the lactation consultant at the hospital, and if that isn't feasible, that you try to contact someone at La Leche. It's been awhile for me, but BestFed, at Alma School and....I think Elliott or Baseline, in Mesa, has consultants there or the people on staff are pretty well versed in your very common problem, and it's free.

Saying that, there could be another possibility. I have two kids, and my first was a nursing problem, but I refused to give up. His latch was terrible, nothing I did, or that the lactation consultants did, helped. I was so bruised, trying to massage milk out, and trying to get him hooked. Once he was older, we had no problems, and nursed until he was three. Only when he was 5 and 6 did I find out why (he's almost 8 now). He has muscle issues with his mouth. He was always very verbal, so I had no idea. He also has sensory issues. The the weakness with his jaw muscles very much contributed to the latching problem and just explained so much. I only wish I'd known so I wouldn't have felt like such a failure with my first.

Don't get too discouraged! Have you tried a product called "Lansinoh"...i think that is it... It is an all natural ointment that you can put on your nipples. I used it faithfuly while breast feeding, and it is something you do not have to take off before they eat, so it kind of puts a protective barrier between you and the baby! It can take a good 2 months for your breast to feel as though you won't cry each time they eat, but if it continues, you might have a breast infection, and that can be treated with anti-biotics. Good luck!

Hi S.,
Whatever you do - don't give up!!! I strongly recommend picking up a copy of "The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding" by La Leche Leauge International. Also contact an accredited La Leche League Leader for support and advice in Sierra Vista: Debbie ###-###-#### or Kristy ###-###-####. Don't be shy or embarassed, just call them. That's what they are there for.

Here's the local website http://personal.riverusers.com/~bark/parenting/

and the one for all of Arizona is http://www.freewebs.com/lllofaz/

Good luck and keep at it, you and your baby will happy you did!
C.

I had a similar experience with my first son. Breastfeeding was really tough, and I wasn't at all prepared me for that. I really wanted to breastfeed, so I put up with the pain. I was also told that he was latched on correctly. It did eventually pass. I think it took about a month to six weeks. A couple of things that helped me were, being dilegent about applying the lansinoh. I was literally coating my nipples every hour. Also, try a warm salt water solution to clean your nipples. Don't use soap on them at all. And finally, cover your breasts with cabbage leaves and just leave them there for awhile.
Check out the website for the La Leche Leaque. They have lots of tips for combatting soreness. Try not to give up, if you give it more time, it will become more comfortable.

You should go to our nursing support class, it's free. We meet every Thursday at 11am at the downtown Presbyterian hospital, 5th floor. If one of the lactation nurses cannot help you I'm sure one of the moms can give you some advice. Hope to see you there!
N.

I just wanted to let you know..keep going! I had problems with soreness nursing my son for the first 3 months or so. I don't want you to get discouraged by that, though. Most women stop being sore before that. I talked to a lactation consultant about it and she said that although the books tell you that if it hurts you are doing something wrong, that is not necessarily the case; sometimes it just takes longer for some women to "toughen" up. She also said that in her experience, fairer skinned women tend to have more problems and are sore longer. I am a red-head. My Sister-in-Law is blonde, but as fair-skinned as me and was sore for just as long with her second child. She also didn't seem to have problems with her first child. Each mother and baby is a different "nursing couple" so even if you have such soreness with this baby, it doesn't necessarily mean you will with a next one. Hang in there--it is worth it!!!
As for keeping up your milk supply with the Pump in style, I don't know, but I tried to only pump when I absolutely could not stand the thought of nursing. I have known people who only pumped and then gave their baby the bottle, so I guess it could be done.
My only advice is keep trying and it's not your fault you're sore. Air your nipples out. Try to distract yourself while you're nursing--TV and magazines helped me. I also found that putting on the Lansinoh right before nursing helped. Also, I don't know where you live, but Thunderbird Hospital has a nursing mother's group that I went to when I needed support and advice. YOu can find it on the hospital's website. It used to meet on Thursday nights at 6 or 7, but it may have changed. good luck!!!!!

I had the same thing happen with both of my babies. I eventually couldn't take it any more and bottle fed my first after 7 weeks. When the pain came back with the second baby, I tried a friend's Medela electric breast pump and it was fantastic. My husband went out and bought one that night. The hand pumps did nothing and the Lansinoh, PLEASE! No help, there. The double electric pump let my nipples heal while I could still feed him breast milk through a bottle. Once they felt better, I nursed more often until eventually they didn't hurt at all. It did take 3 months or so for my pain to completely go away but the pump made it LOTS better. Good luck!

L.

I had pain while nursing and it was due to milk that was crystalized in the breast. I use a supplement called lecithin. And I also soaked my breasts in hot water. These together realy helped.

Good luck!
R. C.

It's been a while since I've nursed, but I remember being terribly sore with my first baby for a few weeks. I think you might be just about through the worst of it if you can hang on a little longer. I did use a nipple shield, it's a thin, rubber shield with holes in it that goes over your breast while the baby nurses. It gives quite a bit of relief. You don't have to use it every time, but using it helps you get through until your nipples get toughened up. I also found it helpful to use A & D ointment on my nipples after nursing, and then wipe it off before the next nursing. I hope this helps!

S.,
I had a lot of pain as well. It's one thing people forget to tell you "Breast feeding hurts bad!" (at first anyway)
In fact one time the baby wasn't latching, I looked down and there was blood on his cheek from my nipple. It really does get easier and doesn't hurt at all. (unless he bites too hard:) I was sore for 6 weeks. I didn't think I would even make it past the first 2 weeks, but I did.
Hang in there, everyday gets better.
K.

Hello, the same thing happen to me and I got a breast shield which helped and gave the breast time to heal and at the same time the baby could nurse. Have a blessed day

I breastfed both of my children and I remember that pain at first. It went away with my daughter after about a month, but with my son, who nursed more vigorously, it was around 6 weeks before it went away. Also, just keep doing what you are doing with careful breast care. Wash your breasts gently after each feeding and apply moisturizer, then rise that off before each feeding. As your baby gets older, he will probably nurse less frequently but for longer periods, which will help a great deal. I believe whole heartedly in breastfeeding, it is so much better for babies, so just hang in there, it shouldn't be much longer. Also, make sure that when your baby releases your nipple, that he is not hurting you more, you can gently put your finger on your breast at the edge of his mouth and press down to break the suction without causing pain.

S.,
I only read the first several posts but can see you have gotten some great advice. I had the same problem for the first 3wks with my first son so I can really empathize. I just wanted to say "way to go mama". Bf is such a wonderful gift to give your child. I hope you find relief quickly. T.~

Maybe try feeding him before he's ravenous. A very hungry baby will suck harder and cause you more pain. Try not to use any soap on your breasts in the shower and expose them to air as much as you can to promote healing. I know you said you tried it but keep being diligent about nipple ointment/cream. I applied a liberal amount of Lansinoh after every feeding and especially after showering. With both of my sons it took about 3-4 weeks before the pain subsided. Hang in there! Breastfeeding is a wonderful experience once you get past this tiny bump in the road.