Thank goodness this did not happen to me. This is a situation my mom is going through. It is a difficult one, and any advice to pass on would be great.
My parents lived out of state the last 14 years. My dad stays with his father (near where I live) often due to his job which has different construction sites and are often closer to us than his residence. He has mainly traveled home on weekends the last few years.
My grandfather is quite old- about 90- and his house is willed to my dad. My parents decided in order to be closer to grandkids (who have all ended up in this area) and to help with the driving to work time and rising gas prices, to move to my grandfather's home which has a basement apartment. This decision was made with my grandfather's permission and with the understanding that they would be remodeling the basement (it is currently divided into 2 apartments and is very badly outdated, unclean and in need of major repairs). My grandfather also okayed the plans prepared by the architects and made a few suggestions as well.
Their home was sold, most of their possessions are now in storage and my mom has a new job down here. They have gone so far as redoing the yard completely. Keep in mind all the changes are paid for by my parents. However, it is still my grandfather's home. But he also has not been in the basement or even out in the yard for years. He is not in the best of health.
So the problem is my grandfather has decided he is not ok with the basement being remodeled at all. He is ok with new paint and minor changes being made. He is very concerned that the remodeling will take longer than expected and won't be done correctly. He is a perfectionist and it sounds as though maybe some of this is just age-related- he does not have dementia but a lot of his fears are really not reasonable and he claims he does not remember agreeing to the plans even though it was a meeting with him, the architect and both my parents.
My mom is furious. She would not have sold her home if she was not going to have her own space she could modify to her needs. They do not want to put money into new carpet, paint etc just to redo the floor plan in a few years. They have invested almost all the money from the sale of their home. They could purchase their own place down here however home prices are much higher in this area than where they were before and they would not be able to get much for their money. They also will need to pay a large portion to my uncle (the agreement is the house goes to them and they will pay x amount to my dad's brother).
Hopefully time will help them come to a reasonable compromise- they have gotten along for over 30 years but now they are practically at each other's throats. It would be such a shame to end things on a sour note. Any practical advice?
Thanks, everyone! I think the problem is that all of us (me included) were kindof looking at this as a personality clash, but typing it out and reading over the responses has helped me to realize that my grandfather probably is declining mentally. I really appreciate your responses and hope my parents will take the advice that was provided. I will update when things are further down the road and hopefully some wise decisions will be made by then.
Maybe they should just find a place to rent for now. It's really not worth it arguing over, esp if grandpa's health is not good. Renting would be the only logical choice at this point.
I think this needs to be a wake-up call to your parents. Your parents could keep arguing about it, but the house belongs to your grandfather.
I don't think your parents should invest anything into the house until your father's name is on the deed of the house. What if they invest their money, and for some reason your grandfather changes his will and decides not to leave the house to them? Maybe your uncle would honor the original deal, but what if grandfather deeds it all to charity? You never know.
This is sad right now, but could become disasterous for your parents. They should not invest any more $$ into a home that they have no legal claim to.
My advice to them: find a place to rent.
OR: have grandfather invest his own $ into it to do it his way, and then they pay him reasonable rent. And they keep their savings account for the more major renovation later after they own the house.
Oh gosh. What a mess.
Does your Grandpa.... have an estate plan or trust?
Because, no matter what is going on now, it will all come down to... what happens to his property and who then inherits it, will be according to laws and his will/estate plan/trust etc.
Of course, an old person like this, who is 90, will have age-related degeneration of their mental and physical, self.
And of course, they get memory problems and/or dementia etc.
When is the last time, he has seen a Doctor for a physical????
He should, get one.
And it would behoove, all of you and him, to see a Doctor. So that you also have a baseline, of what his current health and mental status is.
Should anything happen, personally or legally.
Your Mom is pissed.
Well, that is a big thing they sacrificed.
But it was based on, a 90 year old, person's verbal permission. At that time. And nothing was put on paper etc.
ALSO know that, in the Elderly.... it is COMMON, that they get or have "fears" or worries or apprehensions... that may not seem, rational, to us regular aged or younger people. It is part and parcel, of what happens to the geriatric aged person. It is the aging process. They may also get, age-related anxieties/fears. But for them, and their degenerating mental ability, it is real to them and makes sense. But to you, it seems irrational. But this is all, age related.
Though your Mom is furious.... after all they spent and their moving there... it is also, not the fault of your Grandpa. Meaning, he is very old. For people of this age, they often cannot make.... decisions. And their long term and short term logic & their past tense and current tense of reality, is and gets, murky. It is, all age related.
But, I would not have taken Grandpa, at his word. Because of his age and mental capacity. This had to have been, kept in mind.
But everyone is chomping at the bit, to have his home.
And have done things to it, already.
And now, Grandpa is having problems comprehending, all of this, nor does he remember it all.
THIS... is all a SIGN... that Grandpa's health and mental capacity... is declining. And the priority... should be looking after Grandpa, and his health and mental health.
HE IS SHOWING signs... of decline. Of degeneration. Of mental confusion....
And he is not capable.... to figure out all of these emotional problems nor about his home and what he said months ago or not.
The elderly, get confused. In the most basic sense.
And this all should be a SIGN, to everyone... that Grandpa is declining. In his well being. Not it being about who spent how much or how or when, in his home.
I would be hard pressed, to be mad at Grandpa.
He needs to be looked at, in light of his age and health and mental capacities, overall.
Not the dollar amount.
Grandpa is very old.
He needs to be looked after.
AND, your Grandpa's estate plan/will/trust or whatever he has... has to be reviewed. BY him, before he becomes more... incapacitated.
And not manipulated by all of this.
The elderly, often have a VERY hard time, dealing with all of the emotional entanglements.... of who will inherit what, from them.
Please keep this in mind.
I have dealt with elder care, and many professionals, only deal with the elderly. Even with my Dad who passed away. Even if he was not old... he went through this due to illness. The elderly is a large demographic with unique needs and characteristics. It is sad, when things come to this.
But the Elderly, cannot always handle it.
Naturally.
As things stand now, your parents have no legal rights. They don't own the house or have a rental agreement. Your grandfather holds all the cards.
I don't blame your mom for being mad at all. I would be too. The best thing to do is suck it up and live with your grandfather's wishes. Fighting helps no one, and if they anger him enough he may change the will and then they will not ever have the place.
They don't need to spend money on carpet and paint either, if they can live with how things are for now. Alternately, they can move out and rent their own place.
* Rhonda: Ruby did not suggest they put him into a nursing home. She said IF he he develops health issues that necessitates a nursing home in the future, the nursing home will use his estate to pay the bills. If the cash assets run out they can take the property. She's saying that the writer's parents may inherit nothing if that happens and that they should not put their own money into a home that they don't own in case that happens.
I agree with mynewnickname - no more money invested in the home until your dad's name is on the deed.
Just because your grandfather said he willed it to your dad, doesn't mean he actually did or that he won't change it before he dies. You never know; people do some really strange things. Your dad has no guarantee that this house will ever belong to him. what if he doesn't have the money to buy out his brother when the time comes?
There is way too much uncertainty for them to be putting all this money into a home that they don't have any ownership interest in.
If your grandfather is suffering from dementia he is likely to go into a nursing home. In most states when a person enters a nursing home the home attaches all of the assets of the patient. His home, bank accounts, and investments would be owned by the home. Even if he transfers the deed of the house to your parents name, in Wisconsin it has to be transfered 7 yrs before the patient enters the home or they can still attach it.
You parents need to speak to an attorney to see what their rights or obligations are concerning your grandfather. It may also be helpful to call Medicare and whoever his insurance agent is, if he has Long Term Care insurance this insurance would cover his nursing home payments. If not depending upon how long he is a patient in a home his entire estate could go to pay for his care. Adverge nursing home costs are $5000/month.
In other words do not put any more money into a home they do not own, they could lose it all.
Sounds like they've got a choice between being right and being kind, if they are to carry out the plans to live in your grandfather's home. They can force the issue, and try to get the deal that they had struck, but at risk of further alienating an ill old man. Seems he is not of the right mind, and anything further, even if adequately papered risks going awry. So they can reno the basement on his terms and move in. Alternatively, they table the arrangement and get temporary housing and hold off on further changes to the home until grandpa's passing.
Sorry, this won't be particularly satisfactory to your mom, but it is a good wake up call early on before they've put more money into the current arrangement.
good luck to you and yours,
F. B.
Sorry you are all going through this. Your parents made a big mistake thinking that they could do this with just a verbal agreement. Your grandpa is VERY old and a 90 year old mind can bend with the wind. Only a contract that is executed by the law can protect your parents...
Your dad's name should have been put on the deed 5 years ago. (That's typically the look-back period that Medicaid demands in order to not take the assets.) If gramps gets to the point that his health declines (stroke, heart attack, hurting himself due to dementia), he will have to have help and for only a certain period of time can Medicare help. Once Medicaid kicks in, they will take his assets until there aren't anymore. Your parents will lose everything they have put in the house.
They need to stop spending money on it. Either your mom and dad live there free and put back their "rent money" towards savings, or they need to go find somewhere else to rent.
Really and truly, your parents are wrong in their thinking. Fixing up a house that doesn't belong to them is foolhardy. Your mom needs to straighten up and stop being awful to your dad's father. She needs to actually see where she is being foolish here and stop this arguing.
Your uncle doesn't have to even give your parent's "credit" for the work they pay for. Indeed, your parents may have to pay HIM for the amount the house appreciates due to their work on the house before gramps passes away. All they are doing is making the house worth MORE on the date of death. They should ONLY be making sure that things don't deteriorate, AND gramps should be paying for that.
It is a serious thing, mom, Medicaid and taking assets. Your parents either don't understand or they are in denial. You need to take this in hand and tell your mom to either leave or be quiet about all this. It is GRAMP'S house, and she needs to have more respect. Quite frankly, they should have dealt with this 5 years ago with the help of a lawyer, and they didn't. Taking it out on a 90 year old is wrong.
I hope you can get your mother to see the light here. Good luck...
sounds like my grandmother who i take care of 5 days a week. her house is falling apart but its very hard for her to let go of the way it used to be. your parents need to back off and do one thing at a time. like it or not it is his house and they are in his home. if they dont like it paint it and buy a place even if its an apartment.
