My Sister and Her Husband Are Totally Screwing over My Husband and Me!

WOW! Some of this is seriously on you.

As I understand it, you and your husband knew they were bad with money and didn't pay debts. If they have really been evicted from every place they have ever lived, then you KNOW that they are not responsible. So, you went out and bought a house for them to live in and then expected that they were going to act differently. I think that was a horribly unrealistic expectation.

This is something that you should have either accepted them the way they acted and assumed that they would do this to your house or you should not have done it. I understand that you were trying to help them...you just should have assumed that it was charity.

YES, they owe you the money and YES you should force the issue to collect. They KNOW that they are screwing you over. They are doing it because you have let them slide in the past on other things.

"Fantastic Relationship"? As in you are the doormat and your sister is the foot.

I wouldn't take them to court either, but I sure would ask them to clean the place up and pay you back.

No more loans, when they once again (and they will) fall on hard times and ask you for money....if you have it and want to GIVE it to them.....do it and kiss your money bye bye.

Blessings.....

Just an observation: In a "fantastic relationship," people can have disagreements and can tolerate the discomfort of being in a disagreement. "Never" fighting is not the hallmark of a great relationship, and she would not have done this to you if you had a "fantastic" relationship. Sounds like your family avoids conflict, big time, and that's why you are here on this site telling us things that you would be better off telling your sister. Is she really that fragile that she cannot face a request to act responsibly, or do you not have it in you to put forth the request and handle her reaction, whatever that may be? Your task here is to figure out what you can live with and accept the consequences. The more effective thing to do would be to let them face the natural consequences of their actions (i.e., make sure they make good with repayment, etc... in whatever form you are comfortable). If you don't choose to do this, then it's on you to figure out what is stopping you. She still might not do the right thing, but you'll feel better if you communicate some concrete expectations. If your motivation here is to preserve your relationship with your sister, you might want to first reflect on what exactly you are preserving and why you are ok with being treated so poorly by your sister - not to mention why your sister's feeling are overshadowing your husband's - someone who has actually demonstrated by his behavior that he is a compassionate person willing to go out of his way to help your family for your sake. How is it that you can handle his strong negative emotions but not hers? Why should this situation be more difficult for you and your husband than for your sister and her husband? If your sister gets to walk away without any consequenses, you've just taken away an opportunity for her to learn some responsiblity - you are not helping her in the long run. You've also just taught her the lengths to which you can be taken advantage of, and you've just set yourself up for future conflict with your husband, because, I guarantee you, she will be calling on you again in the future - it is likely that their planning ability has not changed much. If you are trying to hang on to your relationship with your sister, on her terms, regardless to the impact on your husband or yourself then perhaps your can look at it this way: I have no doubt that your sister did not plan on using you or on taking advantage of you - just collateral damage when peole do not have the skills to handle difficult situations effectively (i.e., talking to you about possibly moving ahead of time, coming up with a plan for repayment, fixing up house, etc...). My guess is that life has taught her that it's less painful to bail than to put forth the energy to really solve problems (which, of course, entails identifying and dealing with one's own limitations!). Sounds like you and your sister have this in common - you are asking us to help you figure out a way to help you avoid having to do the hard work of really holding your sister accountable, which might make clear exactly how "fantasic" your relationship really is. I'm guessing that at the heart of this, this is the real conflict for you, because part of the fallout might mean redefining your relationship, and it might not feel very good. Best of luck to you.

It would probably feel better if they tried to make amends. Like maybe helping you fix it up to rent it out again? They can paint, right? Clean?

At least if I were in your situation that would make me feel better.

I'm just going to copy and paste Jen C.'s answer because it's perfect and bears repeating:

"I would talk to your sister and demand she pay what she owes, as well as for any repairs to the home (her renters insurance should cover it). Tell her that you don't want this to affect your relationship, so she needs to do the right thing by you. After that the ball is in her court."

I will add to Jen C.'s post though. Don't ever mix family and money again, and don't ever bail your sister and her husband out again. They're not reliable or trustworthy and they have a long history of proof prior to you bailing them out and helping them. Why are you shocked that they're moving out under these circumstances ie. owing you money and with a significant amount of damage to the house? They didn't take advantage of you because by your own account you walked into this situation with your eyes wide open.

Maybe the person you're really the most angry with is yourself. Your sister and her husband are just playing true to character and the problem was you expected them to change because it was YOU helping them.

I would try to start seeing my sister for who she *really* is (and I don't care how nice she is to your face) . That's the best thing to be done in a situation like the one you describe. A dose of reality sounds appropriate here.

One word: BOUNDARIES. Otherwise you are just one side of a very dysfunctional equation.

JMO.

Let it drop. I have apartments that I have rented out and paid for utilities because the renter couldn't sign up for utilities. If I had only lost $1600 over 6 years I would have been very happy. That's less than $22.50 per month.

My brother stole $50,000 of my inheritance. He said he was going to figure out a way to take it all, but happened to die first. (He was addicted to tobacco and bacon and fat and lots of stuff that wasn't good for him and then his final marriage was to a woman that helped him to eventually die.)

Tell your sister and her husband that they owe you $1600 and what it is for. Then tell them you are going to have to clean up the house to sell it or rent it. Tell them that if they clean it up and fix it up to rent or sell, you will count their debt paid off. Give them some dates to do this and ask when they are going to do it because you and/or your husband want to help. Then, if they are going to help, help too. If they aren't going to help, then DIY and forget about it. Count the money as a charitable contribution to your sister and forget about it. Then when they come to you for the next hand out, tell them you are having economic problems and are unable to help economically.

Good Luck to you and yours.

I would talk to your sister and demand she pay what she owes, as well as for any repairs to the home (her renters insurance should cover it). Tell her that you don't want this to affect your relationship, so she needs to do the right thing by you. After that the ball is in her court.

I don't think you should let go of your anger! You're here asking how you can once again be the giver and be taken advantage of and I can't give you advice there bc I'm just not that nice. If they can afford to move to a nicer place, they can pay you the $1600 they owe you and reasonable repairs on the house. 6 years is a long time so I think it'd be considered normal that you have to repaint and recarpet but anything over normal wear and tear should be on their dime. And typical is one month's notice so they should pay you that too if it's in your lease. Maybe don't push that point as much but you better believe I'd take my sister to court for the $1600 and repairs! It's not "family like"? But how she treats you is?? I don't think this situation is really your fault to the degree some have said. But letting her get away with this would be. Geez - when is she going to have to live up to some obligations?? I don't think you're doing her any favors by letting her get away with this and just forgiving.

Personally, I don't think you should forgive & forget this.

I think you should pull out your documents and say "We're really happy for you that you're getting a new place. However, we want you to be aware that you still owe us $x for the utilities and $Y for the back rent."

I think you're totally asking the wrong question, why should you "forgive" this kind of behavior?
Your sister and brother-in-law have taken advantage of you and your husband for 6 years, and have been dishonest. They are not honorable people.
The way I see it, you can either confront them and ask them to pay you (via monthly installments if necessary) for the damage as well as back rent/utilities, and maintain a relationship where you respect them, because they made an effort to rectify the situation, OR you can "forgive" what they did, but never trust them again. This also means you don't give them the chance to make things right.
I would by far prefer the first option. If you just "forget" and don't draw any consequences from this behavior, you're a doormat, and they will keep doing this. They may have money now, but I'm sure that will change again...
You are not having a great relationship with your sister, you are being used. You sound like a super-nice person - and you probably wished your sister and BIL were different, but they aren't. Don't jeopardize your own family's finances and the relationship with your husband (who btw also sounds like a super-nice guy!) over 2 dysfunctional people you happen to be related to.

No...no...no...no.....
Your sister will clean that house to the state it was when they moved in.
They OWE you the money.
Tell her right away that you will accept $100 per month until the $1600 is settled--more per month is better.
Forget about the notice--they didn't and you didn't get it.
Advertise asap to get this rental filled right away.
Forgive and forget? Maybe....but live and learn--Definitely!
NEVER lend them money or shelter again.
You don't give a drunk a drink and you don't give financially irresponsible people money. Especially HUGE chunks of it.
And you're right--it will be nice for you to see them stand on their own 4 feet!

Unfortunately this is one of those "Well, what did you think was going to happen?" situations. They owe you more than they could ever repay -far more than $1600, but they're obviously not the type of people who are ever going to "get it." They need to fail and fall and not have anyone pick them up. I know that sounds mean, but you've gone above and beyond. You're going to have to let this go for yourself as much as anything (and I would certainly let her know that I was not happy with what they were doing), but don't ever help them again. Seriously! Why do you agree that they deserve a nicer house than the one you and your husband have GIVEN them? It doesn't sound like they "deserve" much of anything.

For your marriage -and to get some closure around the situation, PLEASE let her know that you both feel completely taken advantage of. It's not going to change what they're doing, but they don't need to skip through life crapping on people and using awful financial decisions and never bear the brunt of any of it.

I agree with most of the posts on here, so I won't repeat what others have already said. I just wanted to add that sharing your feelings in incredibly therapeutic and would help you on your road to forgiveness. If you feel too uncomfortable to confront your sister in person, perhaps you could write a letter to her. Let her know how hurt and betrayed you feel and ask her to help you fix up the house. Repairing the house will help repair your relationship. If you refuse to confront your sister and refuse to present her with a letter, then you should still write the letter, let your feelings out and dispose of the letter. Writing is part of releasing emotions and if you do something symbolic like burning the letter or flushing the letter down the toilet then you should also "burn" or "flush" those hurt feelings. I really do hope that you communicate this with your sister so she understands your perspective. I believe that is the healthiest way to deal with this. Wishing you the best......

Oh, that's terrible. What I think you should so, honestly, is present the problem to your sister exactly the way you presented it here: "I have a terrible problem. I have this anger I can't let go of, because of X, Y, Z. I really want to continue to be your loving sister and to have everything be the way it's been, but in order to do that I need your help." And, that "help" needs to come in the form of -- at least -- cleaning up that house and getting it ready to rent again. Since she's in an economic position to move, she should also be able to send you a small payment every month, though people who are ... um ... less responsible often have a hard time sustaining that kind of thing over time.

This is the least you should be able to ask for, honestly.I really just wanted to recommend that you use the language you used here -- which makes it clear you're a kinder, more generous, more forgiving person than anyone I've ever met, to your own advantage.

You may feel used and abused, but try and look at it this way.. you got rid of them for $1,600 bucks.. lesson learned the hard way, but as money goes.. it wasn't too expensive.. your pride is hurt but now you know that you can't trust them... going forward, maybe work on your own boundaries whereby you know you tried your best to help them. However, it's their life and their problem(s)... you know the old saying.. give a person a fish and they eat for a day, teach them to fish and they eat for a lifetime.. time to give them their own pole............ and step aside and don't set yourself up again for disappointment ..based on what you wrote, they showed you their true colors long before you rented them the place.... people show you who they are..... sometimes we don't want to see the truth of the matter..

When the dust settles, have a heart to heart with your sister and tell her you felt betrayed by her and her husband for leaving you with a house to clean up and with a $1600 debt. Then you can do either of 2 things. You can ask her to pay the debt back or you can just let it go and learn a lesson. My choice would be to let it go, especially if you have a good relationship.

No more Christmas/birthday presents for the rest of their natural lives. At least that will make your husband feel better...

I disagree with you that they are "deserving" of a better place when they owe you money and have trashed the house. I don't think that I am "deserving" of a different place, and I live in a nice house that I HAVEN'T trashed and am not late paying on.

If you ever loan them any money or cover any debt in any way after this, you will just be party to their sense of entitlement. I hope that you have learned the lesson you knew in the first place.

Dawn

You think you have a good relationship with your sister? Wow - Maybe in your dysfunctional world. The only reason it's "good" according to you, is because you are willing to put up with a very destructive person without saying anything. Anyone who loves you would not do that to you, plain & simple. They both used & disrespected you, your DH & your property. That would be enough for me to write someone off. They are takers & users & pathetic people who won't change, & will continue to screw people over. Family or not, no one deserves any part of that toxicity. I feel sorry for your DH, for being forced to put up with that for as long as you have made him.

This is why they say NEVER do business with family.
Do I think you are out of line? Yes and no. If you did not have a contract set up with them - then yeah - you are out of line. If you have a contract in place - family or no - take them to small claims court and let this be a lesson to you and your husband.

You knew they were not financially independent. You "let" them live in your rental property. I will assume (and I don't like to) that you did NOT have a contract in place with them? If not - then really - you screwed yourself. Even with family - GET A CONTRACT in place. PERIOD.

I'm sorry but $1,600 is NOT major money in my book. "Major" money is $5K or better. It's sad that you "let" them to do this you. That's not what you want to hear - but it's true. Instead of conducting this arrangement in a professional manner - you allowed them to screw you over.

How do you get over your anger? Well, what would I do? I would tell my sister and brother in law EXACTLY what they owe me. I would tell them that you EXPECT them to be at the rental property on these dates to help fix the problems THEY caused. If you can't do that? then you need to yell and scream into a pillow and get it all out.

For future reference? Do NOT allow ANYONE to move into your rental property WITHOUT a contract in place. If they fall behind in rent? Make the amount known and when you expect payment by. Document your attempts at collecting the debt and if they don't pay - evict them. Family or NOT - it's a business.

Wow you and your husband are amazing. Vent all you need to, I would be pissed off too, if I was you and your husband.
That is pretty cool of the relationship you and your sister do have and you already know you don't want to end that. Talk to your sister, sister to sister, tell her to help you clean the house up, I'm sure she'll do it. Right now, you are already seeing some positive with her moving out, so see it all as a blessing, it's better she's not in debt to you anymore than she is. Also make it clear, you doubt your husband will ever let them move back in if they mess up on the new house.
Hugs going out to you!

I'm so sorry this happened to you. I know the question is about letting go of the anger and maintaining a relationship, rather than what you should or could have done.

So, yes, yoga, but also honesty: I'd tell your sister, calmly, what you said here -- you know she feels bad for this sudden move; you do wish they had given you proper notice. You are hurt by the way this has turned out but don't want it to affect your relationship. She does need to hear that what they did was unfair, especially not giving enough notice on a move when they were in debt to you as well.

You can then say whether or not you and your husband are choosing to forgive the $1,600 they owe you. You can frankly just eat it and learn the lesson -- never do business with family, on any level, and never again do business with your sister and her husband. If you do forgive the debt, tell her so. I probably would forgive it and move on, but if your husband wants to pursue it, perhaps he and her husband (if they even speak to each other?) can work out a basic, interest-free payment plan. If they can afford the mortgage or rent on a new place, they probably can afford to make some form of small payment to you; it could be tiny, $50 a month or whatever. (Remind your husband: At least you paid only $1,600 to learn this lesson, not $160,000....).

That does still leave you with a house to rent out, and I understand why your husband would be angry. But the mistake was partly on your family's side -- to let someone else make a business decision for you -- you and he let them pick the house that you and he, not they, then purchased. Now you are stuck with it and stuck with finding new renters. But how you handle this determines whether you have a future of grumpy or even angry Thanksgivings and Christmases and family dinners, or whether you have a future of positive interactions that are 100 percent free of all business obligations on either side. You do want your sister to understand that this was a mistake on their part (as well as yours) and that they should be careful not to get into the same bind with a landlord who is not family and who will not be forgiving. But you also don't want to live with this for decades to come.

Just bite the bullet and let it go. Be happy you don't have the stress of being their landlord anymore. Ask your sister....like my family does with borrowed money.....can she pay it back when they get their tax return? You guys went out on a limb...there should be some compensation.

Sounds like you're making a lot excuses on their behalf. I suspect they were always poor planners, and always impulsive, and always finding themselves in situations because they don't want to take on responsibility for ANYTHING.

I wouldn't take it personally and your anger is justified. It was a risk you took, and if you really think about it, you were just being a good person by giving them the benefit of the doubt they were being responsible but unlucky. Unfortunately, they have always been just too honest and upfront with you but you chose to give them more credit than they were worth. From what you share, it sounds like they are non-commital when it comes to finances and assumed you knew this when you offered them a home to rent.

Mark my words, this "nice" house they're moving into will be like all of the others. What makes you think they're in any better position to keep this one, than the house they're leaving now, or any house they rented before?

You probably won't get your money back. But considering less people are buying and more open to renting, you probably won't have too many problems finding new tenants.

This time, if your relatives run into trouble again, do not be quick to fix their "problems." When they find themselves unable to pay for this house, leave them to figure it out for themselves.

It isn't mean, you're just being more careful about how you will go about offering them support. Sometimes tough love is better than jeopardizing your own peace and sanity.

Consider this time a harsh lesson learned. Next time, you'll be better prepared and will be more careful about the type of help you will offer them when the inevitible happens. Hopefully it won't involve your bank account, credit rating, or peace of mind.

As a landlord, I'd say take them to court for the rent & utilities owed. Hopefully you had some kind of paperwork (lease & other documents) during this time?? If not, take it as a hard lesson learned that you must document everything!! You may still be able to sue for the amount, but it will probably be a little more difficult to prove the total amount due.

If (or should I say WHEN) their new place doesn't work out... you and hubby need to have a serious conversation about how far you're willing to help them out (again). With any luck, they'll move out quickly and you'll be able to get the place cleaned out and re-rented soon! If you've never done the landlord thing before, there are some great resources online--pay attention--it is all very legal and you don't want to get stuck in another bad situation!!

That was the practical side of my answer (not exactly what you were asking for). As for the "forgive & forget," personally I would have to clear up these legal & money issues before I could get to that point! I love my sisters, and have only loaned/paid for minimal amounts to them--and that was a hard lesson for me--when it comes to family you can't do something like this without the understanding that it may never be reciprocated or appreciated. You do it because you can and because you care. If it's too much for you (you don't have the money, time, etc to do it), don't do it! I still have hurt feelings about the way one of my sisters took advantage of me & DH! As for the younger sister, I just don't let myself get in that situation. I know she could probably use the help, but until she can figure out her own life, I can't get tied up in her messes.
Good luck, dealing with family on these terms can be really tricky (and emotionally trying).

*Added*
Okay, no court. Scratch my entire response, then. Yoga is good, but it should be a "regular" event--not just when you need "stress relief." Do you exercise? That's one way I can make myself feel better when I'm ticked off about something--especially the kickboxing or tae bo videos!! Other ideas (some of which I tell myself I should do, and others that I actually do do): Go for a run, read a book, watch trash TV (soaps), eat chocolate, go for a swim, do yardwork, window shop, bake goodies, space out online, play a game, savor a smoothie/milkshake, clean house.

Forgiveness is a mindset and a way of living.

Forgiveness isn't for the other person and doesn't excuse what they have done. Forgiveness frees you up to move forward with feelings of anger and bitterness.

You find a way within yourself to just let it go but in letting it go you take valuable lessons with you.

Your sister sounds like my younger sister and her husband but my sister's situation is amplified by 100 times worse.

I have forgiven her because she really can't do any better for herself but I know I will probably not extend this kind of kindness to her again as long as she remains the same kind of person.

So tackle the list of to do's systematically as you work through this process of forgiving. I hope this helps.

This is really... unfortunate.
They did screw you/your Husband over and seem to have no remorse.
A difference of "ethics" between you and them, to say the least.

Did you get anything in writing from them, before you let them, live in your rental????

My Husband would be real pissed off too, if my family ever did something like that to us. Or visa versa.

Your Sister and her Husband, have a bad track record. From way back even before they moved into your rental.

take them to court?
But you need to have documentation etc.

If they owe you that much in back rent and utilities look at this as a bittersweet end to the situation. However, I would keep track of how much they owe you.

I would be very clear that you are glad they are moving on, but they need to help repair, paint, and clean up the house they are leaving by the 15th of this month, if anything out of respect and good standing with you. Then you need to ask them how they plan to pay you back for what they owe you....maybe monthly payments?

If they do not offer or refuse to do any of this, they do not deserve your kindness, hospitality, or help in the future.

What a yucky situation. Best it is ending now before they owed you more. Ugh. So sorry you are having to deal with this.

I am very sorry that it has turned out like this. Can I just say for just about every person in your life that probably told you so....They told you so! I think anyone that is alive and of adult age has heard not to do business with family. Gosh, I hate it. I really hate that people can not trust each other. I want to believe that I would never treat anyone like that EVER. But, it does seem that it happens like this ALWAYS with family.

I think on the going to court issue... It sounds like you would have to get in line with other people garnishing their wages. It sounds like it would ruin your relationship with your sister. BUT...do you want to ruin things with your husband? He needs to get over it at some point. He helped you get into this mess.

I'm actually GLAD they are leaving. Make it clear to them that there will NEVER be any help from you again. They have burned this bridge. You can find a way to say that in a loving manner. Well, at least don't say it in a hateful one.

I know I'll sound b*tchy, but she isn't screwing over "my husband and I," she is screwing over "my husband and me." You remove the other person from the sentence to see whether "I" or "me" fits, and your sister would never be screwing over "I." There was a whole discussion about this grammar issue on this site the other day. It surprises me how many people misunderstood being told as kids, how you never put yourself first (me and my husband), but that it's only "I" when you are the subject in the sentence :)
Good luck with the sister situation.

My guess is that at some point, they will want/need to move back into the house. Get busy, clean it up as much as possible, put a little money into it to make it ready to rent to another tennant and don't back down when they come back needing help.

I am all for helping family and in the big picture, $1600 is not a lot of money. This situation truly is about principal. I hope for the sake of your relationship, they do what is right and pay the money the owe within a reasonable amount of time. Ask your sister to help you clean up the mess. She can certainly paint, clean bathrooms/kitchen, take care of yardwork. Do not, under any circumstances, agree to put any new utilities under your name and if I were you, I would call the utility company and make sure that they didn't simply transfer service. My guess is, they did.

I am not sure if you are Christian or not, but assuming you are....when you have had a little time to digest all of this, drop to your knees and thank God for the blessings that have come to you in your life. Thank Him for the roof over your head, the food on your table, your husband, your job, for another day. Ask Him to take this burden from your heart and deal with it. TRUST ME...that is all He is asking.

Wow. I am so, so, so, sorry the position you are in!!! I will not tell you the should have done or could have done etc. What is done is done. But what you can do from now on is ask for what you need/expect. You may not get it, but it doesn't hurt to ask. Your sister if she has any credibility at all will realize what they are doing is shady and wrong and will find a way to properly make it up to you and your husband. I personally would give a formal letter of intent and tell her that you want her to do the right thing. The right thing is to pay the $1600 +++ that they owe you and to also pay to fix up the place that they have damaged so much. See if you can at the very least get a signed commitment to do payments etc. I know you are not interested in taking them to court---so this seems like the next best option. Be serious about it and professional. You can even threaten to sue if the don't comply....(not sure how far you want to go to get your $) but maybe that will be enough to scare them into doing the right thing.

It is horribly sad what they have done and how they have taken advantage of you. The positive side in all of this is that once they are out--you NEVER have to help them with ANYTHING again. If someone calls for a reference--you can tell them the truth. They are dishonest, shady tenants etc.

As for you personally feeling better about all this--- Pray and Journal. Ask for answers to this dilema. You will know what to do and when---Hang in there!!!!

M

Ummm - what your sister and BIL did is illegal in every state. They routinely did not keep up with the rent or utilities, they did NOT give you a month's notice, nor did they pay up what was backpay.

It doesn't matter if it was your sister or not, they were your tenants and landlords have rights for a reason. I personally think you are not doing the right thing by not enforcing the 'rules' of their tenancy either thru the court system or thru less rigid pathways. They owe you and your husband money - PERIOD - AND another month's rent for not giving you notice. You still have to pay that second home's mortgage regardless if someone is living there or not.

She is walking all over both of you and you are letting it happen. This is for the welfare of your family. Get the money she owes you or she will keep walking all over you in other matters.

I would so be taking my sister to court. Family doesn't treat family like this. It is illegal behavior.

You are definitely a better person then I could ever be especially if this is going to cause tension between your husband and you. I realize that you and your sister are family, but you and your husband have created a family between the two of you as well. It seems as though your sister has not even considered this in her grand scheme of things. Maybe it is best that you can just let things go and let bygones be bygones, however you may want to respect your husband's feeling and realize that he did what he did on your behalf. I hope that this all works out for the best.