Math Facts for 2Nd Grader

Can she do it if the time factor is removed? Maybe speed is the issue, or maybe anxiety when she is timed?

If it is just sporadic math concepts, I know it sounds crazy, but consult an OT about visual perceptial issues. If she cannot visualize some concepts (for instance, if she cannot take the idea of 4 quarters of a pie and see the "whole" pie) then some math skills may be very dificult for her. As the OT if they use Linda Mood Bell evalutions and interventions, you might find a small issue that will respond to some very simple therapy. This would not be something that would quailify her for any school based service, I could explain, but it is complicated, but trust me, it would not be covered by an IEP or anything close. Just something to think about.

M.

Hi K.. Math is hard for girls especially. It was for me! I'm having my own difficulties with my son and school too. I think it's a struggle for every parent. Children are expected to know more complicated things now!! Just wanted to say stick in there! Good luck to all of us!!

+100, -100??? Is that just counting up to 100 and backwards? I don't have a second grader yet, so I'm guessing that is what you mean. There is a website www.abcya.com. It is free and has several games related to all school topics and is separated by grade. I hope that helps.

P.S. I think it is really disappointing that the teacher told you she just needs to memorize it. Memorizing isn't learning. Doesn't sound like the greatest teacher.

Sounds like you are doing the right things. Asking the teacher for advice is a good place to start. However, you might just get more of the "memorize it" mantra, which isn't working for her.
Usually addition is easier than subtraction, so she should probably get that down first.
Perhaps a few sessions with a tutor or someplace like Sylvan would get her over the hump. Definitely better to get help than for her to get so discouraged that she gives up.

sorry, but isn't teaching the teacher's responsibility (i am a teacher, by the way)? this sounds ridiculous to me. it's stressing out you and your kid. leave it alone. what are they gonna do, flunk her? congratulate your child for all her hard work and move on. the school standards do not fit every child. they are not robots.

good luck and i'm so glad you asked for help on this one. i hope you get good advice.

She'll get it. We measure all kids by the same yard stick. It just isn't fair. I wouldn't take away privledges for not getting a math concept. My 1st grader is struggling and we just keep working on it and I hope some day he gets it.

Does your daughter have a nintendo DS? There is a game called Personal Trainer Math that is fun and helps to learn facts and gain speed. There's also a free website that helps to work on math facts.
http://www.factmonster.com/math/flashcards.html

I wouldn't move on to subtraction before mastering addition since the easiest way to do subtraction is to already know the addition fact and then reverse it. Moving on is just going to frustrate her further.

With the flashcards are you going through all of them everytime? Go through the whole set once and write down the ones that she does not answer correctly immediately. Then work on 3 of them at a time. Review only those 3 every day until she gets them each correct 5 times. Once they are correct move that one to the "completed" pile and add one more that she did not know. Continue working on only 3 at a time until she has them all down. Periodically spotcheck the completed ones but don't overwhelm her with all of them at once.

Good luck,
K.

I agree about getting copies of the timed test. But, don't cut them up. Part of test taking is practicing in a situation as close as you can get to simulating the real timed test. What I would do is just have her do the entire sheet and you time her. The game would be to reduce the time it takes to do the entire sheet a little at a time. Make it a game. Believe or not, math can be fun. But, you have to make it fun. Don't punish or reward her. The reward needs to be intrinsic-the improvement in time. It doesn't matter what the time is at first. The goal is time improvement. I teach test taking skills. Albeit, it's for doctors, but simulating test conditions are the way to go. I know some kids and adults have difficulties with tests, but learning and practicing how to test is an invaluable skill that will pay off in the long run. Personally, I'm not sure if all forms of testing really assess anyone's knowledge, but that is the world we live in.

Aaack!!! As a HS math teacher, I work every day to help student unlearn badly memorized "facts" and, even worse, the deep belief that math is a big pool of facts to be memorized. No wonder they "don't like math." Math is a REALLY interesting, REALLY rich body of interconnected concepts. If she needs to learn to add and subtract numbers (is that what +100's and –100's means?), she should be having plenty of opportunity to make sense of relative size of numbers, of place value, of multiple ways to figure out sums and differences.

And I can't not mention: I take serious issue with the respondent who said that math is hard, especially for girls. Yikes. I hope your daughter is not dealing with assumptions such as this. First, it's not true. Second, it is dangerous and potentially damaging.

So... I guess my advice is: stop emphasizing memorization. If her school is silly enough to do that, then it is your job to provide balance and help her to value conceptual understanding. It's more important (by far) and more fun.

If you want to talk more, I'm happy to do that. Just drop me a message.

Best wishes,

Evie

I don't have any answers for you, but wanted to let you know you're not alone. I'm going through the same thing with my 2nd grader. No matter how much we work on it and no matter what way we attempt it, she is just not getting the facts memorized. I too asked for help from the teacher - got nothing. It amazes me because they are so worried about teaching things like geometry and pre-algebra and they leave all the basics for us to teach at home. I don't know about you, but I am a working mom so our time in the evenings to work on this stuff is limited if we want to have dinner, bathe and get in bed at a decent hour! This is my third time through the elementary school system and it has gotten worse with each time through. This "new" way of teaching is not good - the students don't get a good enough foundation to build on. Anyway, if you get any good information or ideas from the teacher, please share!

Wow! You have a lot of advice to sort through! As a fifth grade teacher, I can say it is frustrating when students don't know their time tables (those usually start popping up in 3rd grade), but memorizing without understand is pointless. Timed tests do not help most of our kids. It sets many up for failure. It causes stress and anxiety that makes kids feel bad about math.

Have her compete against herself. Start a timer to count up. Stop it when she finishes the page. Then try again the next day and note her improvement in time. But before you do anything with a timed test, PLEASE make sure she understands the concept of what she is working with. So many of my kids who struggle have little number sense. THey don't understand what +/- 100 really means or why 7x8=56. Kids will learn facts when they see the purpose of it.

And the point of memorizing is not to raise test scores and get more money. It is to allow fluency in math so that kids are not sitting there trying to solve more complex problems and getting stuck on basic facts. Fluency is also part of the state standards. In 3rd grade, the state standard is to memorize the multiplication tables through 10.

Please send me a message if you have further questions. Math is my passion, especially for teaching those who struggle with it!

My son is in the first grade and even though the numbers aren't as high as what she's learning, he was having the same issues for months...it was driving us insane that no matter how often we worked with him he was still struggling. It would take us up to 2 hours to get through his math facts.

Finally we found that the main problem was us. We were pushing him so much and not allowing him to learn the way he wanted to. He likes to play while going through his math; we thought he was just screwing off so we would get stricter with him. When we took a deep breath and let him mess around a little, he finally got it. Dropped us down to 30 min for homework now.

Example: 1) When we did his flash cards, we would put the cards in two piles' one that he got right and one that he got wrong. Found out that he hated it when we put the card in the wrong pile, he wanted to do it.
2) He likes to fidget. He would play try to play with pencils, rubber bands, whatever he could get his hands on. We would take them away from him and that would set him off too. We started letting him keep the items and realized that whatever he was doing with the item at that moment was helping him to focus. Some people stare hard at objects when they think hard, he is the same way...and fidgeter.
3) No drinks, treats while we do math. Once we stopped that it made it more relaxing atmosphere to learn.

Maybe there are things that you are doing that is inhibiting her from learning. Even though we think we're doing the right thing, we just might be doing the wrong thing. Anyway...good luck to you and her.

She is in SECOND grade!!!! What is this world coming to? Kids aren't allowed to be kids anymore. How sad that this is such an intense expectation for your child and she is feeling that kind of pressure from her school and parents. Maybe instead of pushing your child to perform in this manner, you push back on the school system. As far as the 100 system goes, once they get that, there really isn't a need to go higher because they got the fundamental facts which can take them to infinity. But ease up on the kid and let her develop at a rate that is natural for her. Pressure at such a tender age will not help create a holistically healthy individual. It's not all about academics (or at least it shouldn't be in 2nd Grade), it's about helping produce a well balanced child considering emotional and mental states. We do such a disservice pushing one thing and letting the others fall to wayside. These kids get out of high school and don't know how to conduct themselves in life without the pressure and outside expectations. Education should teach a love of learning, rather than the dread of performing.

Stop beating yourself up. You're doing a great job! Unfortunately, very few parents spend as much time as you do. You should definitely move on to the -100's. Maybe by doing the -100's something will click that will also help her with the +100's.

When you talk with the teacher, ask her if there is anyone else available who can work with her - another teacher or an older student. When my daughters were having difficulties in a specific area, they would respond better to my husband, or sometimes they would do better helping each other.

Good luck.

Maybe get a Tutor.

Some kids just don't test well.... under the gun of a clock ticking. But I know, they still are required to do it. So its not easy.

Its all about drills. And repetitiously memorizing it.
My daughter is in 2nd grade too... and they have Math Facts too. But we can also do "practices" online at home. Is your school set up that way, for the Math Facts?

For my daughter... they have to do addition, subtraction, and multiplication involving single and double digit numbers/equations. And also the 100's type of problems.

I don't know what you mean by -100's and +100's. Sorry. Can you esplain that? Is it equations with numbers involving 1 through 100? addition and subtraction????

We have, a Tutor for my daughter. Not because she is lagging... but because, I feel she can benefit from it, and if I do it, its a different dynamic and she just feels Mommy/I "nag" her. But all I know is... before 4th grade, if a child does not have basic Math down pat... and know it well... once they hit 4th grade, the math becomes more difficult and the concepts... and if the child does not know basic math by then, they can get real frustrated and not be able to keep up. That is what Many parents told me... who have had kids in 4th grade... and the Tutor we have told me that too.

Do NOT punish her for not knowing her Math. That will not help. At all. Timed tests are not easy. Even for adults.
When I was a child... math was not my strongest subject. My Mom, is a Math whiz and a Valedictorian Math major... but, even with her teaching me... I just HATED it... and she'd scold me and punish me. It did NOT help.

All the best,
Susan

Are you saying that she will not be promoted to third grade unless she learns these facts? I think you're right in wanting to back off for awhile. Certain learning is age-related and sometime no amount of studying is going to make something happen if your child just isn't there yet. Good-luck.

wow. you got some good responses and I agree with a lot of them. Basically, let her learn at her own speed, she will get it one day....oh the joy of seeing her face when she does. I also don't think that she should be getting punished for not being able to learn what she needs. I'm sure she is trying her best and it is frustrating when one doesn't get it. I know because I struggle in school trying to understand and LEARN it not just memorize it. My 2nd grader also struggles in school. We use to be frustrated and on her, but caught ourselves and realized that she will get it on her time. Just keep working with her and don't put too much pressure on her. Tell her it's ok if she doesn't get it all right now, we all learn differently.

I agree with Reva.... all the school system wants to do is pass test and have a good test score so they can get money from the government. Be proud of your child, congratulate her for memorizing her math and don't push it.

Good luck,
M.

Hi K.,
You've gotten lots of good answers, so I'll just reiterate the ones I think will help the most -- it sounds like she doesn't get the concept of what's getting added. Memorizing math facts doesn't make a lot of sense without understanding the concept behind it. I'd try using something tangible and/or graphical to explain the concept. Those Lakeshore Bears in a tub someone already mentioned are great. Or you can just draw a bunch of stars on a piece of paper. Or use coins. Maybe your daughter is a more visual person, so those things could help.

Also, I have to reiterate someone else's concern with the comment that math is hard for girls. It's really not a sexist thing! Anyone can excel at math, and anyone can get a little frustrated with a new concept, until they understand it in their own way. We can't let the world of little girls out there think they're somehow inferior when it comes to a certain subject.

Best of luck, and hang in there!

K.,
You are a wonderful mom for trying different games/techniques, etc. to help your daughter!! And I praise the other moms who gave you websites and other ideas! K., sometimes parents are not the best teachers at every subject for their kids. I don't know if your daughter's school is on a traditional schedule, or a year-round schedule, but if her school is on a traditional schedule time is running out--it is already mid/late April. School will be out soon and you need help fast. You've tried different things at home and they haven't helped. I think it's time to get her some outside help. I agree with the moms who suggested this also. Places like Sylvan, or even a private tutor could work wonders with your daughter. You are not singlehandedly going to be able to change the school's standards for moving on from one grade to the next, and again, it's late in the schoolyear. You should call a tutor today! My son is 13. He came home one day a few month ago; he was crying and he was so sad (he's never done this before) about how poorly he did on an algebra test. I told him that that's what tutors are for, I made a call that afternoon, and he started with the tutor the next week and what a relief it was for both of us. He still sees the tutor once a week. The tutor is teaching him the concepts in ways that I can't. A relief I am telling you!! Relief for both of us. No more stress for him or me.
Make that call today!!

My advice would be to prioritize protecting her from feeling badly about this. She's obviously going to learn it sooner or later and doesn't need everyone making her feel badly. I think we have strange time tables for these things, and there's no real point to them, particularly when she's putting in effort and being diligent about school. I know it's hard, but I would urge you to reward her effort, and forget the rest - she's going to learn it when she's ready. If there's a way to gently and respectfully ask the teacher to lay off a little, that might be really helpful. My kids don't learn well when they're under pressure.

God luck!!!
M.

I would get a couple of rolls of pennies ($5.00 = 500) and play games with them. Have your daughter "buy" her snacks, utensils, napkins or whatever you want to play with. She can be the storekeeper too and you can help her figure out how much things will cost when you add them together, or how much change you/she will get.

For example: an apple might cost 20 and cookie costs 80. A glass of water is free, but juice might be 30 and soda might be 125. You decide the prices (together?), write them down and start having fun with math! Make it real and it will eventually become easier for her. A bonus, maybe at the end of the week, she gets to keep any pennies she hasn't spent - she'll make healthier choices if she wants the money.

My daughter is also in 2nd grade this year, and although she is very bright, math is her weakest point. If you give her a word problem, she can figure out the answer, but she is terrible at 5 minute math!

Ask the teacher if your daughter could do 10 minute math instead. Once your daughter gets everything right in 10 minutes, she can move to 7 minutes, then 5. Sometimes it's the pressure of knowing she has to do it really fast that throws my daughter off.

If your daughter has trouble understanding the answers to the problems even with unlimited time, then maybe she needs manipulatives, or counting on her fingers, or whatever. Some kids need a visual. My younger daughter (in K this year) can't yet look at 5-2= and know what the answer is, but if I say, "Here are your 5 pennies. I'm going to take away 2 of them. How many will you have left?" then she understands. Maybe your daughter just needs a different way to look at the problems. It's good to memorize the answers but first she does need to understand WHY the answers are the way they are. It sounds like maybe the teacher's approach isn't really working for your daughter.

Good luck. It's frustrating!

Ask the teacher for a few copies of the timed tests that they do and then go and make a bunch of copies for yourself to use at home. Start by cutting them apart and having her only do 10 or 20 in a minute (or whatever) and then add more and more. I would simply just cut the paper after the last problem that you want her to do. You can save the rest of the page for practice or recycle it, but if you start breaking it up, it will be a more attainable goal.

I would hesitate giving any type of punishment unless you feel she really CAN do it, she's just playing "games". I sense that is not the issue. If she really is trying her hardest, don't punish her, math just might not be her thing. Rewards are good and I know you said you did some and it didn't work, but maybe if you make the rewards based on the "easier" tests that you are creating at home, it might spark some more interest. Or...make the rewards based on her doing well at her flash cards. If she can do X amount in a minute, she gets a sticker towards her goal of X treat (ice cream, a small toy, etc.)

You could switch it up and do the subtraction facts, but honestly, the plus are way easier and if she has those down pat, the subtraction are that much easier.

Also, you could have her make some flash cards out of note cards or something. Maybe having her write them will help commit them to memory. Don't do them all at once, but maybe 5-10 at a time.

Finally, I would start playing as many games (board games, card games, etc.) that have to do with numbers and counting. The more numbers she sees, the more comfortable she'll get. Uno is a good one, dominoes, etc.

I teach and would move on to the other. Sometimes they just need a change. Also teacher stores are a great place to look for help aids. With her doing work sheets maybe that is the way to go.

try www.arcademics.com

It has math games that she could do to practice and increase her speed.

The problem I'm seeing here is that it seems passing the test has become more important than your daughter learning the basics of math. She doesn't need to "memorize" the problems, but rather how to understand the mechanics of doing them, and how numbers work together. Flash cards and work sheets don't help her learn those things. You need some sort of concrete method of showing her what the numbers mean. When we are working in smaller numbers, it's easy to set out an amount of objects and let the child manipulate them to catch on to the concept. With numbers over 100, I think you need something that represents the 100 and then show her that the rest of it is simply putting a small number behind the 100 and working with that.
How strong are your own math skills? You may need to find someone who understands them better than you do to give you some practical tips on how to show her in a way that she can understand the concepts.
From your post, I'm guessing that neither you nor her teacher have math as one of your strong points... and that's ok, we each have our strong and weak subjects. I agree with those who have told you that you need to not stress out about this. Ask around and find someone who is able and willing to help you and your daughter with the math and can explain it in a way that makes the concepts more clear to you.

My daughter did well in all classes but math. She was tested and needed special education just in math. At home we would do the problem together and she got it but it didn't stay with her. In special education they had obnects to represent the numbers. Like wooden pieces of an apple cut up, 100 plastic teddy bears, etc. Then she really got it. Lakeshore Learning Materials in San Jose has tubs of teddy bears, etc. in San Jose. They are also online. Discount School Supplies Catalog is also on line. Iurge you to have her to the problems with actual items and then do the problem on paper. While my daughter was in college she worked at a bank so she did learn math well. Good Luck.
F.

My daughter is also in 2nd grade. They were tested for something like this in 1st grade (timed but less problems and I think just to 20). My daughter gets nervous about the timed tests. One of the things I did was have her take the whole test while I timed her, noting how long it took her to complete it. Then I checked her answers for accuracy having her make any necessary corrections. Then I'd have her go through it again (same sheet with the answers), timing again having her to through motions of doing the test saying each problem out loud or in her head and tracing the answer she prevously wrote. I'd do this a few times and since the answers were there she often "finished" in time. What I didn't know and learned this year was this was a good strategy. It helps them to see the whole completed problem to memorize it.

Anyway, I would do the process over again printing out another clean and different practice sheet (www.mathcafe.com) I'd also make a big deal each time she shaved off some time when she actually DID the test. We set up a rewards system, it was just an ice cream cone from Rite Aid, but she loved it.

We also had days where we didn't do the tests and played math games instead. Check with the teacher to see if she has any that you can borrow. There may be games online that you can do.

What concerns me, is not making it stressful for the kids. I think it can set them up to not like Math later when they might otherwise.

Last, Thanks, My daughter is also in Second grade and I'm sure they will need to do this too so I better start. That was the only complaint I had about her class last year, the timed tests and the little time we had to prepare.

My 3rd grade son had a similar problem. He entered 3rd grade, and couldn't pass the teacher's "pre-test" for timed tests. Then he took his first math chapter test, and received the highest score in the class. This happened again several times in the first couple of months of school. When I sat down to talk to the teacher, she told me that she was really worried at first when he couldn't pass his timed tests, but when she saw how well he did on his other math tests, she stopped worrying. He understands how to do math facts, and math concepts, he just doesn't do them as fast as the school wants him to. It was almost like he would freeze up, and couldn't do the problems when he knows he is being timed. I wouldn't worry about it - you are causing yourself stress, and you daughter completely unnecessary stress. I think we push our kids too hard. She will get them down in her own time. And who cares if she can't do them fast enough! As long as she understands the concepts!!

I certainy don't believe it's in the California State Standards that she HAS to pass this before the ned of the year..............THAT is your question.

Our teachers are expected to "introduce" things in 2nd grade, yet the students are not supposed to have them mastered.

Yes by now....she would be discouraged. Especially if majority of the class is doing it. If she is improving anyway..........reward her at home, she certainly deserves it :O)

I'll bet her reading Fluency score outshines those "math kids"! Every kid just have their own "specialty"...........her just doens't get a chance to shine.

Yesm confirm if mastering these math drills is a STATE satndard, or a TEACHER standard..........

~N. :O)

I am not a teacher but I would say that our jobs as parents are to be advocates for our children. If we feel that standards are harming our children it is the parent that can say enough is enough.

I don't have a solution because it seems that you are working hard every day and the harm caused to your amazing student by focusing on this small issue may be more than it is worth.

Mathnasium might help though. I have never used it have heard it is amazing. Also, there are great websites and ask if this is a school standard, district standard, etc. What are the consequences for moving on?

Maybe a game of it? Check out www.arcademicskillbuilders.com. They have math games that speed up with correct answers. They are really fun, and might get her speed up. However, n my humble opinion, if she is a good student and understands the work--these timed tests are not that important. My son just went through the same thing, and would get 94 out of 100 problems correct, and not pass. I think if you get 98 completed, and 94 correct, you understand the material--so move on!! However, that wasn't an option.

At any rate, I think moving on to -100's is a great idea, and would probably help her more in the long run even if she doesn't complete it in 4 minutes. Creative solutions are a great thing. Good job!

My daughter could never do the timed tests in math. She is in 8th grade now and probably still could not do them. They called them Mad Minutes. When she knew that she was being timed, she would freak out and freeze up. She would complete maybe 4 out of 50 problems. When we gave her the same test and just said work at your own pace and let me know when you're done, she would complete all problems in very close to the time given. If the teacher can let her work at her own pace when the other kids are not in the room, she may surprise everyone. if she still cannot do them in the time alotted, but is able to complete all of them accurately, maybe they can give her some extra time. As long as she knows them, does it really matter how fast she can write them out? I hope this helps. Good luck.

Hello K.,
My husband was a math teacher and always found it amazing how making it hard on children at this age for math may ruin math for the rest of their school years.
Please keep reminding your little one that she is great in other areas and that this is a goal she can reach but that not everyone can do it the same way. This may help her to deal with the frustration. When you talk with the teacher understand that she has to force this issue due to the mandated state tests so get her help and compassion. Good Luck

j