Looking for Advice on Disipline

Hi Michelle,

I do agree with some of the other posts, this could be anything from selfishness to Autism. First thing is to not panic and then, systematically try and determine what is going on.

You may or may not want to bring the pediatrician in right away. Most seem to medicate first. The smart ones that figure out what is wrong sometimes don't know what to do from there, and then medicate. Medication MOST of the time masks the problem. Then trying to diagnose is a nightmare. I was a medicated child. Not for behavior, but my symptoms were masked so long that I didn't figure anything out until 25 years after my diagnosis!

My daughter had severe ADHD and played by herself and had conversations with herself and bounced like a Jack Russell terrier when she was playing. I refused to medicate her and found a solution with a family member's suggestion of detoxing my house. My daughter no longer is diagnosed with ADHD! Removing all the neuro-toxins and the allergens around the house would, at the very least, give you a base line to see if her behavior improves.

I know I must sound like a broken record because I have said this before to other moms but chlorine bleach was invented for chemical warfare by our military as a neuro-toxin. Pledge and Windex have the highest degree of neuron-toxins of any household cleaners. They go straight to the brain. Lysol contains dioxin which is better known as Agent Orange. Most people don’t know that even the baby products that Johnson and Johnson and Gerber manufacture, including their baby shampoos, has Quaternium-15, a known cancer causing agent and allergen.

Try to make note of when her behavior is best and when it is worst. What is the environment she is in? Does she have trouble sleeping? When she sleeps is she restless?

Please feel free to contact me if you would like more information. I'd love to help if I can!

Regards,

M.

Please please please don't medicate. I know too many people who have and the negative consequences far outweigh the benefits!! Without knowing you and your kids and watching your daughter, it sounds like she really wants attention. My 3 year old did a similar thing when my third child was born. We went rounds like you and finally I said to her. "What happend to my sweet, loving, obedient little girl I used to have? I really want her back. Can you bring her back?" My daughter said "yes" but I had to remind her of her answer for about two weeks before I saw any changes. I got her involved with helping me with the baby. She loved it. Some times she'd say "I wish I didn't have a baby." I just say that this baby is God's gift to her, so she'll have a playmate. Also, I recommend some books. "Boundaried for children" By: Cloud and Townsend. "The Birth order" book By: Leman. Right now I'm reading a book about personality types "Personality for parents" By: Littauer All these books are awsome and I'd recommend them to every parent. Hope this helps!!
M.

I am by no means an expert on this subject but I raised five boys really close together and then years later was blessed with many grandchildren and what I see when this happens is ( unless of course it is medical) is that your little girl at four needs one on one with mommy. She has on older sibling who I assume prettymuchis on her own without the need of one on one with mommy as much then of course you have your new four month old who needs lots of one on one with mommy. If you are in a position to be able to have someone care for your little four month old like when your older fourteen year old is in school you could take your little four year old to the park or to get an ice cream and tell her that this is special time for you two and let her know how much you love her. Believe it or not raising children is not about money as some people think it has to be however it is nice to be able to afford them as there are maintenance issues FOREVER! but what children really crave is positive attention and knowing that they are loved and they want to know they are safe and they want to feel secure. If what I have suggested doesn't work then I would seek the advice of a doctor to see if there are health issues. Hope this helps! Let me know how it goes, just me Tropical Granny signing off for now! Take care and God Bless!

i agree that she needs to be screened for any possible problems. my son used to ignore me alot when he was very young. i found out that he was partially deaf so he wasn't ignoring me - he really couldn't hear me until i screamed.

as for the talking to herself, that sounds like self-talk / my son does that too.

and the screaming when you put her in her room - sounds familiar to me again.

please have her evaluated for sensory issues and hearing problems. don't let the pedi talk you out of it and don't let the pedi just hand you meds. it won't solve the problem. she really needs to be fully evaluated.

Try taking her to your pediatrician. Tell the doctor about you daughters behavior and your concerns. Also tell the doctor about your wishes to not medicate her. I personally have 5 children that are all special needs. My husband and I have made the decision to NOT medicate our children, as many other parents have also decided. There are many methods out in the world available to us parents who choose not to medicate. Good Luck!!!! -dyesmail-

Hi M.,
I know exactly what you are going through. My oldest has ADHD. Talk to your Dr. about your concerns. It usually starts to show up at around 4 years. Your Dr. should be able to give you some behavorial tecniques to help. My son did very well with the behavoral techniques until he hit puberty,then his Dr. recomended meds. until he was through puberty.ADHD dose not mean they have to be on medication. My best friend has ADHD and she has NEVER been on medication. She has been able to use behavroal tachniques her whole life. Hope this helps!

V.

I have a feeling the reason why your daughter is becomming more of a handful is because she misses her daddy and plus with the arrival of the new baby. If you're worried that she may have ADHD talk to her doctor and see what he/she has to say. Good luck.

It is possible that your daughter's behavioral issues are related to the new baby and the fact that her father is often deployed. I suggest you get the book "Positive Discipline" (can't remember the author's name). It talks about why children misbehave and how to help them in a more positive manner. Screaming and punishing isn't going to help with the child who is having some strong, overwhelming emotions. I also suggest you go the the website: wwww.awareparenting.com. This is a webiste run by Aletha Solter and all of her books are fabulous.

Please don't medicate her at this point. Try a different disciplinary approach first. I work with a lot of parents and I have found that each family needs to try different approaches until they find the one that works for them. Good luck!

I am a pediatric therapist, and I would recommend a screening through the Early Steps program to find out if there may be a reason why she has trouble listening and calming down. They can test for any sensory issues or hearing issues or behavior issues. She is really too young to say whether or not she has ADHD, but she is not too young for the screening for the other issues.
If I can help with the information for the program, please respond.

Before you get to the "5th time" stop what you are doing and physically assist her to what you have asked. Gently and calmly. Do not let things escalate into screaming. It sounds as though she has stressors-new sibling, dad not at home etc. Plus I am sure you are stressed, too. Try a little more positive attention to her when she is being good.

If things persist, take her for a good comprehensive physical to rule out any physical reasons for her behavior. I agree, I wouldn't want to medicate-especially not at this age.
A psychological eval from a child specialist might also be in order.

Hi, I'm no expert but it sounds like the 4 month old is getting all the attention (obviously since she's a newborn) not to mention that you said your husband is in the military. So you definitely have a handful there. I think at that age they are getting over the "terrible 2's and 3's" so the fact that she's still giving you a hard time is definitely lack of attention from her parents. She seems to want any kind of attention wether it's positive or negative (that's where you're yelling at her comes in). The only thing I can suggest is that you make time for her and her alone. Hopefully you have family or friends you can leave your newborn with and tell your 4 year old you'll take her to a movie just you and her. Or when your husband comes home have him take just her on an outing. So she feels that she is still important to the both of you. I highly doubt she is ADHD I'm sure she just wants some one on one with her mommy and daddy. Hope this helps.

M., I have a 4 year old little boy and thought he behaved that way just because he was a boy... guess some kids are just a handful! I too was on the same routine of nagging him about doing things, then yelling and then we are both in the throws of a fight. When I saw another Mom yelling at her little one one day, I saw what it looked like and didnt like it. I have not raised my voice since (wanted to tho':-) I got a lot of my tips from Nanny 911 - the show, and I bought the book. Good stuff that really helped me: First, a routine. A time to get up, dressed, eat - all meals, and a consistent bath, brushing, bed routine. House rules, so she knows what is expected. My little guy actually has chores now (helping me sort the silverware out of the dishwasher, putting on the tupperware lids, and taking out the trash, setting the table etc. We make it a fun / reward sytem and it works. I hate to admit it, but I do resort to bribing him at times. (eat of of your dinner and ice cream for desert, pick up your toys and you get a candy kiss, or 5 min extra play time etc.). Also, I find that if I just "bark out orders" to him, I get no where. So I always say, can you please help mommy pick up toys, do chores etc. He loves to help and we make games/races of it. I do put him in time out and that works. It didnt at first, but I followed the nanny 911 system of time out and after the first couple of days it worked great! Now I ususally only have to count to 3 and he is rushing to meet my requests. Your little one sounds VERY intelligent and she may also be reacting to Daddy being gone and anxiety about his job (you too no doubt). So make sure you give her some time and encouragement to talk about what might be bothering her and why she feels/acts the way she does. Hats off to you lady! The only thing harder than being a Mom is being a Mom of 2 kids, a baby and a Military wife! I admire you! Good luck with it all! K..

Michelle, PLEASE, get this little girl evaluated without delay. Have your pediatrition refer you to a specialist. DO NOT let the pediatriton pet her on behaivior modifying meds. That should only be done, if at all, by someone who is trained specifically in that area and only after a complete psycological, psychiatric and physcical workup. There could be many things at the root of her problems, from simple dicipline issues to some form of autism. One thing I know for certain, as mom to 5 and grandma to 4, many with special needs, yelling NEVER helps. Please don't avoid this in fear of meds, you are on a collison course. I care. S.

Oh, isn't four fun..... I also have a strong willed child and an often absent hubby. But to have a newborn too must make it insane. My heart goes out to you!!

My strong willed girl also chats with herself and doesn't like to listen. I am not worried though, she is perfectly normal in every other aspect.... except for that thick head of hers.

We have had to get creative with consequences. I am a firm believer that there must be consequences for everything ~ some are natural, others must be parent mandated. It takes massive reservoirs of strength to be consistant....

it isn't my place to preach about what works for me though. So,good luck. If you want to share war stories, just shoot me off an email. cheers. J.

your 4 year old is wanting some personal attention. she probablly feels she has lost her spot. if you can find some one on one time for her. assure her that she is still mommys little girl. ask her to help take care of the baby. dont reward bad behavior, but do reward positive behavior.

Your poor little 4 year old is caught in the middle! The 12 yr old is mom's helper, her 4 month old sister is the baby. she is not old enough to help mom, she is no longer the baby! You ignore her too much to suit her, you don't have anything that she can do to help you, so if you are going to ignore her, she is going to reciprocate! She needs time alone with mom and you don't have it to give! It is tough being the middle child! You have to figure out to bring her back into your life and let her know that she is loved! The unloved child is headed for disaster!

Try a pre school a day or two a week. Most bases have them. She is upset that she is not the baby any more. Oldest, youngest and only sex children get more attention than the middle child. We middle ones have to fight for our attention. Being bad is a good way to get attention or over achieving. By putting her in a preschool she will be with her age equals. Bury her in praise when good and try to egnor the bad unless it's dangerous. If she can sit and watch her fvorite TV show she is not ADHD.ADHD bounce around nomatter what's going on. Some systems have a preschool for ADHD and exceptional students. Check it out preschool ina school system is ususal free.Plus you get a break only the 4 minthold would be home and you would have more me time.
If she is ADHD try the pills, then decide wheather to continue them or not. If they make her a zombee the dose is too high.

I would get your pediatrician on board with this one. They may recommend a family/child therapist. I thought what I was hearing was standard until the talking and answering herself and refusing to look you in the eye. It could be that she's upset that your DH is deployed alot and needs help finding how to cope. It could be a medical issue, like the ADHD you mentioned or a mild form of autism, with the anti-social behavior.

Ask her doctor to help you figure it out.

Hi Michelle. I debated whether or not to post any advice to you. Anyways, I'll tell you a little about my situation and you can decide whether or not your situation is similar or not. First of all, I was a stay at home mom of 5 kids. My older 4 were typical kids, well behaved for the most part. When my 5th was about 2, I noticed that he was more difficult than my others. I went through what you are going through with him continuing to try my patience until I lost it and started yelling. That always seemed to make things even worse. He ignored his father and I so much that we actually took him to have his hearing tested. It was normal of course.
We continued on this path until he was in kindergarten, at which point the school insisted that we take him to a doctor/therapist. We found out that he was autistic. Autistic kids always seem to be in their own little world. They frequently talk to and answer themselves, are unable to or refuse to make eye contact, often they will rock back and forth or stare at a moving fan for long periods of time. They lack the social skills needed to interact with other people.
Like you I didn't want my child on medication. The school said that he had to be on medication or else be in an ESE classroom. My son is so intelligent that I didn't want his education to suffer, so I tried the medication. After 5 years of chaos, I cannot tell you how wonderful it is to have a peaceful household again. My son still has issues, but we don't have the continual screaming matches like we used to. It has helped him tremendously. I don't know whether or not the problems that you are having are as severe as the ones that I had, only you can decide that. Please don't think that I'm saying there is anything wrong with your child. It may just be a phase he's going through or something. I just wanted you to be aware of some of the other signs just in case. Either way, being consistent is VERY important. Also, try giving him choices whenever possible. A counselor taught me this. For example, do you want to brush your teeth first or put on your pajamas first. He's still doing what you want, but he will feel as if he has some control too. I hope this helps.

Hi M.,
Have you talked to your pediatrician? The thing that concerns me most is what you stated about your daughter not making eye contact and "being in her own little world". This might be more than a discipline issue. These could be signs of Autism.

Take her to the doctor.

Best, K.

i would take her to a child pschyatrist. a few sessions should have a dx of what is going on. she could be normal and just a total handful or she could have ADD/ODD or autism. in the testing they will have her hearing tested, blood tests and just watch her behavior. does she stem, repetative behaviors? look up the symptoms online. my middle daughter was dx'd with autism at 3. since then i read alot and picked which method i liked better with my parenting style and it has worked great. my child doesn't withdraw a whole lot unless she is stressed. i also have a daughter with ADD/ODD which i think is even harder to deal with. i would have her tested if for no other reason than your peace of mind. the sooner it is done the sooner you start getting it in hand. i would also have her tested for food allergies which can present like these symptoms as well. they have been doing alot of studies on it. planning on having it done with both my children to see if this could be part of their issues.