Is 1577 Words Too Many Words for One Paragraph?

No. I am NOT trying to bully the poster. Although the poster may feel that way. If you are on a public forum and ask for help - how can you expect people to give it to you if they can't read what you wrote?

I am not expecting perfection a dissertation or anything like that i would like to be able to read the post so that i can absorb it and answer it however without commas periods paragraphs or anything like that it becomes a long run on sentence and I as well as others get lost in all the words without a break I know there was a mom who was nice enough to copy and paste one post and edit it to help with the grammar and it made it much easier to read and understand are you following this because its driving me nuts

Paragraphs certainly make reading easier.

But (written in the friendliest possible way, and applying to me too) I do happen to believe that if you're worried by others' paragraphs, or lack of paragraphs on an online forum like this, then it's time to walk away from the computer and get some other interests.

Yes, I've given up reading long questions before and have skipped over them. I do think, though, that there is a time and place to have a string of comments about the format. An initial request stating the need for clarification, and one (two tops) request following to second the need should suffice if a post is truly indecipherable.

However, there are certain posts where it is clear that the person asking is not in a state of mind to receive 10 posts that say nothing helpful but all critique the lack of paragraphs/proper grammar/proper spelling. The relevance of these requests notwithstanding, I think there are times when those responding need to evaluate whether there is potential for the stream of critiques to be perceived as merely jumping on a bandwagon of criticism as opposed to genuinely wanting to understand and help. At times like these, I think a compassionate, "I don't know what advice to give you, but I'm sorry you're struggling" might be a better approach than restating the need for better formatting.

My opinion is on two different posts here, (this one makes the third), specifically for this gal people reamed. I don't think it's wrong to say "paragraphs are your friend", but it's all the other stuff that was said to her that pisses me off. Paragraphs and paragraphs written by people making her sound stupid and idiotic because she can't write well.

The other thing that was so terrible was making light of her problems. People here should think twice about talking that way to someone who may have "no way out". Though we would not find out because it's mostly an anonymous forum, someone who is treated like this here might end up throwing themselves in front a train. Is that something worth having to live with for crapping on a person with poor writing skills?

I thought a lot of the posts were just terrible to this woman. She went back to that original post and evidently worked hard to fix all her mistakes. She just didn't put in paragraphs. I had NO PROBLEM reading it. I understood everything I read. And yes, I really like paras, too, but I "get" that not everyone has the skill to write well. She wrote a new thread asking people to read the edited form and give her advice. She asked for people to be kind. She was reamed instead by multiple posters. It was awful. And still, some who were among the WORST offenders pretend that they weren't bullying and defend the nastiness they wrote, about her problems and her life, in addition to lacking paragraphs.

Okay, I've said my piece. There - I feel better now.

Dawn

ETA: Perhaps, J., "ridiculous" is also giving that much of your time and attention to a question, checking it every day for a week, "trying" to edit it yourself from a copy and pasted Word version, and STILL not being able to offer any helpful material or ideas. THEN posting a question about it, in a veiled attempt at ridiculing someone who was seeking some help.

I think your question is ridiculous.

Not everyone has equal education or writing skills, J..

If a question is just "too hard" for you to read--move on!

Have you read any Faulkner, btw?

While it would be very helpful to have paragraphs, not everyone is going to do that. You're just banging your head against the wall. See Wickerparkgirl's excellent summation of this subject.

Even with help from Bill Gates, if you had the time to copy and paste the OP to word, come back here and report the word count, and write this post, maybe, just maybe, you had the time to wade through the original question and offer something helpful.

J. F.

While I understand that it might be said in the spirit of kindness and from the desire to help, I think responding to someone's question with a critique of their writing style will not be received well no matter what. "Paragraphs are our friends" reads rather snarky, even if that's not how you meant it and when other people jump on the bandwagon in their responses, it does look and feel like bullying. If you can't read a question because of the lack of paragraphs or the bad grammar or the spelling errors, then I suggest just skipping it. Posting about how you'd like to help, but the writing was just too bad, and then 20 other people following you laughing amongst themselves in their posts and also criticizing the writing does nothing but make the poster feel belittled and picked on. It's like offering to help someone with a make-over, but then you and your friends go on and on about how you just can't work with their horrible hair, imperfect body, out-of-date wardrobe and utter lack of style. Much more helpful to just keep moving and let someone else help if you can't look past the flaws and see what is underneath.

Well, you know where I stand on this one.

Yes, it's too many words for one paragraph. No, it's not unreasonable to have certain desires when trying to help someone (I'll feed you when you're wearing clothes / I'll speak to you when you're not yelling / I'm not willing to be spoken to that way / etc.)

I love this mamapedia community. I hate the format of this site. It really lacks common sense and it's not user friendly (sigh). It's difficult, because even short paragraphs turn into one long word frenzy because our words are squished into tiny boxes. Grrrrr.

But anyway.

Look, fact of the matter is that it's just not realistic to expect everyone to communicate in such a way as I would like. I can choose to engage or disengage, but I can't change people's level of education, their bio chemical makeup (I CAN'T spell, it's not laziness, it's in my brain. I have to use google's search bar instead of spell check because most of the time the words I'm trying to spell are so off that spell check doesn't come up with them), or their level of crisis.

People in crisis are (usually) not great at communicating. It's a chemical thing. I get to work with a lot of people in crisis. It's my favorite thing to do. It's so funny, my friend and I went out on a Friday night and ended up going back to her house after just a few minutes. I'd rather talk trauma, we decided. It's fun for me. But anyway, crisis does a funny thing. It makes rational people prioritize safety and survival over intellectual thought.

I think Tina was in crisis. I think she had so much going on she didn't even know where to start. I think this site was the best way she knew to ask for help.

Personally, when I'm in crisis, I'm very sensitive. My feelings get hurt easily. I am sometimes reactive or agitated. I become more aggressive/permissive than usual. During crisis, if someone said something about my lack of communication skills, I'd feel crushed. I really would. ((Crisis is messy. People aren't at their best. It's just an inevitability, like how not eating makes people hungry, or how when we stub our toe we are in pain. Being criticized for being messy while in crisis (when you're *really* trying you're best), sucks.))

So I don't think it's productive to put people in crisis down for something that's probably out of their (perceived or real) control/ability. Better to try and come up with a solution, a way around the barrier. Barriers are real and they suck to come against when in crisis.

I meet a lot of under resourced people. Fact is, there are just a lot of hurting people out there and I don't think they are getting the support necessary. Sometimes, I think folks come on here simply because there is no where else to go.

Now, I love paragraphs (probably too much). I just don't think I'm always going to get to read paragraphed questions. Some days my attention span is too short to read through 'poorly' written posts. Some days my attention span is too short to read through ANY thing. We can thank my ADHD for that :-) On those days I just skip 'em.

Other days I make a game of it. Like deciphering encrypted code. I see if I can hear what the other person is saying, and I try to imagine myself in their shoes. I try to imagine what they feel like in their body.

But anyway, I'm a big goof ball tonight and I'm rambling. You know I love yah, especially 'cause I know when you ask these questions you're not trying to prove a point. You're really trying to look at it from another perspective and I like that about you.

Hugs.

I think "paragraphs are your friend" is an excellent way of conveying that we WANT to help, but trying to read a non-stop barrage of words is overwhelming and distracting from accomplishing that goal.

Regardless of how it makes the person "appear" (lazy, uneducated or just frazzled and in despair... who knows)... it makes just frustrates the reader. And if you want someone to help you (that's why the post in the first place, right?) then it helps to have people read the post. People stop reading when it becomes too much work/hassle to get through it. Much as we might want to help, sometimes it is just too much glaring from the screen.

Some posts are shorter, and so lack of paragraphs has less impact on the overall readability. But when they go on to the point of having to scroll down to see the end.... there needs to be some breaks for the reader's eyes.

We could do a post about lack of punctuation, too. It isn't just being grumpy or judgmental... it actually affects the person trying to read the words on the screen. If I'm shaking my head before I get to the end of the post (due to frustration in trying to get through reading it) then I'm sure my response/answer is going to be affected somehow, someway as well, not on purpose.

I'd think a person would want to receive answers that are based upon the facts of their post, and not jaded by the way they wrote it. And the best way to accomplish that is to call as little attention to the text itself as possible, and allow the weight of the content to elicit meaningful replies.

I don't want to bully. I want to help. And if I am frustrated by the punctuation (or lack thereof) I am probably not the ONLY one, and therefore the person may not be getting responses they might otherwise receive. People give up and click away to another post or another site without responding.
So indeed, paragraphs (and punctuation) ARE your friends!

ETA: I guess I missed the follow-up drama. I only saw the original post (at least, I think I know which one is being referred to). So she posted again after? I guess I missed it, or didn't put together that it was a follow-up. :/

I think it's basic human nature to expect that everyone can function on your level, so that's what we, as humans, expect…. Even on mamapedia!

I also agree that when something is typed in an organized fashion, with paragraphs and punctuation as well as a succinct train of thought and an actual question that is relevant to the background... it's MUCH easier for me to understand their actual question and therefore, give advice or my thoughts.

However, I liked and applaud Ephie's earlier response where, in a true "helpful" spirit, she re-typed the original post, giving it form and function.

I think one or two - "hey can you re-state this and we'd be glad to help" replies might encourage the poster to sit down, collect their thoughts and take their stream of consciousness to a higher level.

I also think that "we" as mamapedia posters jump on a bandwagon and sometimes, as a collective, that would have to be overwhelming to the poster, wouldn't you think?

It might be MUCH more helpful if the FIRST replier (and I realize sometimes postings are simultaneous, which can't be helped) requested a re-post and NO ONE else made any replies (or sorted through and picked out one or two areas in which to offer advise) it might encourage the poster to take action.

Maslow's hierarchy of needs suggests that you *can't* fill certain needs until other, lower, needs are met..... so if you're struggling to stay awake or to quit crying or to not go into a blind rage of frustration.... well, sometimes a stream of consciousness is the best they can give. A rambling, chaotic post usually points to the overall mental state of the poster.

I also think this forum is an "advice" board.... not a hotline or crisis site. So, I would say, yes, I agree that "asking for readable, from someone who is asking for our help, is not asking too much". But many times these posts are chaos... with sooooo much going on that the poster would probably benefit from some sort of dedicated professional help; not a few suggestions from mom's who have been there.

I agree with you. I don't sign on and read a post to be snarky about something or come across like a bully. However, when there is a paragraph and sentences that never end it does drive me nuts. I also roll my eyes at some of the spelling and grammar that I see.

I do understand that some moms may be multitasking, etc but please proof-read before submitting.

Now before I am blasted.... I know I am FAR from perfect and I realize that English may not be the first language of a poster. I'm simply talking generalizations here, not judging anyone because of grammar, spelling, or poor writing skills. God knows I make plenty of mistakes myself!

Just tell me you didn't count each word individually, J.. I might feel the need to worry about your mental state.

I dont usually do the paragraph thing on here as I find this a fairly casual venue, unlike what I have to do in my work related, formal letters.
I do try to start a new thought on a new line tho :)
I really don't think we should try to teach grammar to someone that is asking for help UNLESS they are asking for grammar help.

Guess when someone is responding passionately, all the ideas in mind just spill out as words, and people lose track of what and how they type it all out! :)

Personally, I like bullets first, paragraphs next, and essays the last! :)

1577? Really? You continue to amaze me!

I now have this need to re-read quite a few "things" again....just to count the words!

But I will admit that I am a "paragraph freak". I drive my 15yo nuts over this subject.

....& to be honest, I hate one sentence paragraphs....as I've written in this post! :)

yo dog, watz a paragraph? iz donts gnaw whaz you be talking up in my face about. JEEZ your a bully, and a shark! TO ranchy IMO.

I try and thats my truthful answer.

I think that that is an interesting question!

Paragraphs certainly help as far as readability, but I think when folks are stressed and typing they are not focused on that. Sometimes it is just words going staright from the brain to the key board no editing etc.

I try to edit (for typos of which I always seem to miss some) and for readability. Some folks probably don't even know that what they write is not understandable by others. After all it makes perfect sense to them...

So yes I also think that asking for a more readable question is not too much to ask. However, I do understand that sometimes folks just don't see how what they write comes across to others...

answer to follow up:M.---every time my boss walks by MINIMIZE MINIMIZE MINIMIZE ESCAPE...darn you computer don't get M. caught;)

I think 332.258 is the limit=)

I agree! I am far from perfect in typing, spell checking...but I do think paragraphs are much needed breaks of thoughts. Your mind needs time to process. I skipped those 2 posts because my brain hurt trying to read it.

I think the paragraphs suggestion is good, because if she listened and put breaks more of us would go back and try to help and that is afterall what she wanted!

I agree.

Slight tangent, I was just reading an article (i'll go look for it in a second) that was talking about the reading levels of the nation as a whole.

As I recall, the average (and vast majority) were at an 8th grade level. However, most of the writing for general public consumption is at a college level.

Whatever your feelings on that - it occured to me that it sets up a question - Should general writing (newspapers, blogs, MP) that are meant for general public consumption be written to the average reader - OR - should the writing stay at a higher level?

I agree. Double spacing --- using dashes ---- commas and even spell check -- my computer doesn't spell check as I type on MP but if I question my spelling I highlight the word and paste it to an email which does spell check. If I am taking my time to answer a question I want to be reasonablly sure the reader can actually read and understand my answer. If they can't read it why bother posting.

I feel this is even more important when posting a question.

I understand that English can be a 2nd language for many people on this site and I get that grammer for English is difficult-- so while that bothers me I can handle grammer mistakes even some spelling mistakes but one continous sentence with no punctuation and no caps is just to hard to read.

No, definitely not to bully or belittle someone. And I can guess which post you're writing about. I think that I, like many who responded, truly wanted to reach out to the person asking for help but it was literally unreadable and therefore we were unable to give her any feedback at all. When I'm being snarky about someone's writing (which is usually only after someone is being aggressive or insulting), there's nothing ambiguous about it.

If I'm being passionate and type a run on, I actually go back and break up the paragraph into paragraphs when I'm done :)

I don't expect perfect writers but I agree with some breaks in the writing. I have a hard time reading the long posts that have no breaks in them. I think others probably skip them as well.

There should be breaks, yes. But I too often find myself forgetting to put them in as I'm typing quickly and for the most part if not always from mind to fingers.
I do read the long ones though.
I try to answer with what is needed as much as I can. Sometimes the phrasing or grammar or what have you isn't the greatest but I try to keep it readable even if long.
I don't think putting in paragraphs or not putting them in is necessarily bullying or not -- it's more a matter what is being said and in what intent.

It's nice when something can be said in a line or two but some things require more.

But more than anything, I'm going with Alexis on this one.

To answer the question. Yes.

If there are no breaks and the "question" is interminable, I won't finish reading it.

It's all in the presentation. If you don't care to present it to me in a standard format, I don't care to respond.

And yes, 1577 words is way too long for a paragraph.

I think I've seen your "paragraphs are your friend" comment and laughed my @ss off...YES, they are!
I'm really bad, I know there are different writing styles, but it makes it soooo hard to read when a post is HUGE with no breaks...the distraction thing is an issue with me too, I can never sit and read everything at once and the lack of paragraphs makes it really hard to keep my place. So if the post is huge with no breaks, I tend to move on, hoping that others here who have more patience will respond with help...
I don't think it's rude or mean to ask for paragraphs and I understand that people will sometimes post while emotional, but I find that writing the issue helps me calm down, which allows me to go back over what I've written and re-read it to make sure the errors are at a minimum...but that's just MY writing style.
The funny thing about the long posts for me is that I find myself reading them like they're posted...I'm picturing the poster talking in one long breath, all I want to do is say "easy now, take a breath"! :)