I Want to Wean NOW! (Edited)

Big Hugs!!! Gawd, I hate sleep dep.

Bad News First:

If they're hungry, they will wake up at night.

My family is huge. (At 6'1 I'm the shrimp, and we're nearly all full grown by 12-14). Can we say growth spurt, much? My son at six going on seven is pushing 5 feet tall. Add to the fact that we're all athletic, and you can guess that our biggest family expense tends to be at the grocery store. So while my son was a VERY good eater...we've had to do that caloric race to keep up with his needs (tips, tricks, and dirty little secrets to follow). To this day though, if he's in a growth spurt he'll wake up around midnight to 1am needing to eat.

2nd bit o'bad news:

It might be a physical problem (probably isn't). Twisted intestines, as well as a few others problems can cause slow, steady, weight loss in children. So here's my standard advice: Take him to the doctor to rule out any gastro-intestinal or other problems like diabetes or (hyper/hypo...I can never remember which) thyroid or others that cause weight loss & lack of appetite.

Tips, Tricks, & Dirty Little Secrets:

- Hershey's Chocolate Syrup. Yup. Chocolate whole milk. Warmed up (stove, microwave, or espresso machine...whatever is handy...to apx 100-110 degrees). My son went on a milk boycott for awhile. I figured this one out on accident, and it has been a FANTASTIC thing. We wanted him drinking whole milk until he was 5, and we needed extra calories...and presto..."hot" chocolate. Warm chocolate, really. About the same temp as breastmilk. Bingo!

(My son LOVED nursing, and was okay with premixed $$$ Enfamil Lipil...but he hated any kind of "regular" milk <grinning> I think you named the whole gamut we ran until we stumbled on the chocolate milk trick. And we did the bottle thing. For years. What works, works. FYI, WholeFoods 365 store brand whole milk -no rbst,hormones,etc...but not their "complete" organic milk is only about 2 bucks per half gallon...the best milk at the best price we've found)

- Processed food. Obviously NOT for every meal, we usually did one a day (out of a standard of 5 meals) until he was 3-ish. But a can of Campbells Chunky Chicken soup...with the liquid drained off and put in a cup...makes fantastic finger food. Microwave dinners with shredded meats...like Claim Jumper's Salisbury Steak, with mac'n'cheese & broccoli...or Marie Calendars Fettucini Alfredo with Chicken...or Hungry Man BBQ Rib shaped patty things with mashed potatoes. All of these meats cut up with a fork into toddler bite sizes, and can be eaten with a fork or fingers.

- McDonalds. Chicken McNuggest with the deep fried bit pulled off and small fries.

- Having their "own" food & snack drawer & shelf. We assigned a bottom drawer in the kitchen, and a shelf on the door of the refrigerator for our son's snacks & leftovers & drinks. I kept them full, and he could have anything he wanted at any time. Leftovers after mealtime went in easy open containers and he could eat them as he pleased.

- Eating out asian. Real asian, where the idea of kids behaving, is making friends at other tables and inviting them to play under THEIR table, too. Our personal favorites were Dim Sum & Thai. Dim Sum favorites amongst the kids i've known were turnip cake, steamed custard like tofu with shrimp, shu mai, and shrimp balls. Phad Sie Ieu (wide noodles, with sweet soy, egg, veggies, meat)...was the number 1 thai hit. I mention this, because every "picky" or "barely any" eater we've taken with us has SCARFED at these types of restaurants. Don't know whether it's the kid-friendly, or variety of choices, or types of food...but it's always blown my mind.

- Being home at mealtimes. Sooooooo not always possible. If it is though, give it a whirl. Whenever my schedule had me gone in the daytime (consistently, not just for a day or two)...my son was up half the night. Nursing, or eating...and talking with my mum...yup...he'd hardly eaten at all that day. This isn't SUPER common, but i've known many kids who've done this. "Waiting" for mum or dad.

Most of these tricks, probably make us sound terrible. I have to tell you though, for US, they worked. (My hubby is also an Italian Vegitarian/Pescatarian, & although scottish and norweigan I was raised in Japan...so our house is almost the definition of healthy food. Suuuuuper healthy. And our friends would GAPE, if they opened our pantry and found our shrine to Chef Boyardee, Campbels, & Alfredo Sauce. Then turn around and have a heart attack when they looked in our freezer and saw that it was litterally stacked like a library with frozen dinners. But hey...our son ate what we ate...AND he ate food that if I ate it on a regular basis would have me as big as a house. And his ribs STILL always show.

What works, works.

Good Luck

I think that if you wean him at night then he will eventually learn that he NEEDS to eat more during the day. He'll have no choice. Right now you are giving "option" to eat all night, but if that option isn't there anymore, he will eat more during the day and (hopefully!) sleep better at night.

I think that if you are done with nursing than you should just quit! It should be something YOU want to do - it's your body after all. You did your time, and there is no reason to feel "guilty" about stopping. They all have to wean sometime!! It is hard at first, but after a week or two, it almost seems like the babies don't even remember they ever did it!

Good Luck with everything!

PS- you may wan to be careful how you word things. I actually found this line of yours a bit offensive: "He is NOT your typical American fat baby that has a storage to pull from all night long." I don't think that the "typical American baby" is FAT. Actually, my daughter and all my friends' kids are all way below the 50th percentile in weight, except for ONE. I doubt that's a "coincidence"....

My friend's son was like that.... and it was because he was underfed, not a good feeder, very picky, didn't like to eat, was not a good latcher, and did not even stay at a bottle long enough to even get full. They tried all kinds of things. Her son was just not growing much or filling in. even at 8 months old, he looked like a 5 month old. The Doctor said she had to supplement him and by doing so, her child was much happier, slept better, and started to grow more appropriately for his age. Not saying this is the exact situation for your son... but to me, the "problem" is not "weaning" per say... but that his intake is inadequate.

So, what worked for my friend, was giving him Formula in a bottle...or since your son is 17 months, a sippy or straw cup.
I hate to say it, and many may disagree...but if he is even rejecting other forms of "milk" AND normal eating.... my suggestion would be to try and give it to him in a bottle. MANY children will drink, if it is in a bottle, but not a cup.
The reason I am suggesting this is, your son is NOT getting enough intake... he is a "thin guy" as you said (not that that is bad & all children are different), and I'm assuming he is underweight or not growing on par????
Therefore, it is imperative that he DOES get enough intake... in any manner it takes. Worrying about not giving him intake, just because of 'fear' of a baby getting attached to a bottle to me is, putting priorities in the wrong order. The FIRST priority should be getting him enough intake... for his system. Because as you said, he is already not a good eater during the day... and by night time he is starving... thus he is waking up a lot.

Next, you can try Toddler Formula for him, or "Pediasure" for toddlers... it's a "meal drink" with protein and vitamins and fiber. MANY toddlers take this who are underweight or not good eaters. THIS is what my Pediatrician suggests as well, in cases like this. My son, went through a period where I had to give him Toddler Formula as well, and Pediasure... it helped him to gain weight... because he was so picky and did NOT like any diary, including milk.
Now though, my son will drink milk... but will not eat other dairy. So at times, I still give him Pediasure. My son is now 2.75 years old.

These are my suggestions. To me, the MAIN issues is that your son is not a good eater/feeder... therefore he is always hungry, he will not drink any "milk", and he seems (I'm assuming) underweight. Plus, any growth-spurts he has just exacerbates these issues... because he STILL is not getting enough intake nor enough nutrition, daily.

Next, I would also check to see if he has any sensory sensitivities... some babies/kids do not eat because they are texture sensitive which makes them seem picky... or they cannot eat/swallow certain textures because of swallow coordination problems... there is a name for that but I forget what it was right now. Apraxia, dysphagia... ? You need to see if there is an underlying problem as to "why" your son does not eat on par for his age. It is not always that the child is "picky"... sometimes it is a biological issue or inability. I baby-sat a child like that once... and she had a problem with her esophagus sphincter muscles and swallowing ability, and she did NOT indicate when she was hungry... not all kids do that. This child, even if she was hungry, would STILL reject food, because she had actual problems eating... which a specialist found out about.

All the best,
Susan

Hi J.,
They are two different issues: weaning and sleeping through the night.

On the weaning front, your son needs to realize it is your body, and you will control when and for how long he nurses. My story is a little different, because my daughter is at the sitter's during the workday, so she can't nurse on demand. Basically, we're down to nursing 3 times a day during the week: first thing in the morning, after dinner, and before bed. To wean, I'd suggest you need to limit your nursing to certain times of the day(first thing in the morning, before naptime, maybe after dinner if you want to, and before bed). Make sure your son has a sippy cup with milk at meals, and a cup with water available to him thoughout the day. I don't know if your son is still using a bottle, but we stopped cold turkey with the bottle at 17 months. My daughter would drink milk or juice out of a cup, but would only take milk out of a bottle. If your son is using a bottle, focus on weaning down to an acceptable level of nursing sessions right now, and then wean from the bottle in another month or two. For right now, give him the bottle instead of nursing.

Once we took away the bottle, my daughter ate much better. She would fill up on milk (30+ oz per day) instead of eating. However, since we took away the bottle, she hardly drinks milk at all. She usually only drinks milk in her sippy cup on the way to the sitter's house in the morning. If your son wants to nurse, and it's not one of the times you want to nurse, offer him another beverage instead, and distract him with another activity. Get him outside going to the park, or running errands, and limit nursing to home. My daughter doesn't ask to nurse anymore when we are out in public, and I make sure she has juice boxes, which she loves, while we are out. If you are concerned about the sugar in juice boxes, Sam's Club has a juice box that is mostly water with a little fruit juice for flavor. They have Clifford the Dog on them; my daughter loves to play with the straw, and she's perfectly content with those while we are out in public or in the car.

I'd also suggest putting a sippy cup with water in his crib at night, and showing him where it is. If he gets thirsty during the night, he can drink from the cup. I did this this week with my daughter. After months of sleeping through the night, she started waking up at 1:30 and then 4:30. I gave her the sippy cup of water instead of nursing her back to sleep, and after one night of crying for a few minutes when I wouldn't nurse, she was back to sleeping from 8:30 pm until 6:30 am.

Is your son teething? My daughter wants to nurse more when she doesn't feel well. It might help to give him some infant Tylenol or acetomenophin if he's teething.

The other issue is sleeping through the night. I know you've said you think he might be hungry; if that's the case, you need to get him to eat more during the day. One of the books says to gradually space out the night feedings until you eliminate the night feedings, but this advice is designed for an infant. So if he's nursing every 45 minutes, only let him nurse every hour, then every hour and a half, then every 2 hours, until you have him sleeping through the night. If he's thirsty and not really hungry, the sippy cup of water in his crib will satisfy his thirst, but not his desire for contact with you.

Maybe he really isn't hungry, he just wants his momma. Think about it - haven't you woken up hungry during the night but still been able to go back to sleep? I know it's happened to me. I like the book "Healthy Sleep Habits, Happy Child" by Dr. Marc Weissbluth. He says that the brain controls sleep and the stomach controls hunger, so it's usually not a case of hunger that's causing your child to wake during the night (unless that by now he's so used to eating during the middle of the night, that that is when he gets hungry). A 17 month old shouldn't need to eat every 45 minutes. My pediatrician told me my daughter should be able to go 3 or even 4 hours between feedings when she was 9 months old. So this is where you need to space out his nighttime feedings so that he's not hungry, if that's what it is, during the night, and he gets his nutrition during the day.

A lot of times my daughter will have a large snack with the sitter's child when she gets out of school at 2:30, and then my daughter doesn't want to eat when we sit down to dinner between 5 and 6. On those nights, I offer her a snack after bathtime but before brushing her teeth. She loved bananas, but lately has moved on to other things. So you might try offering him a banana or cereal before bed.

Don't worry about the milk; he can either take a calcium supplement or eat other foods with calcium (cheese, cottage cheese, yogurt, broccoli).

Crying it out has been the fastest, most effective method with my daughter to eliminate night wakings. I don't think weaning is going to solve the night wakings; you're going to have to work on his sleep issues separately from the nursing. We're still nursing, and my daughter is skinny too (50% for weight over the last year), but she's been sleeping through the night since we eliminated the last regular nighttime feeding when she was 9 months old.

Good luck to you, and feel free to send me a personal message if you have any other questions on what's worked for us.

Hi J.:
It's my opinion,that at 3 months old A baby does need to be fed on demand,however,your son is old enough at 17 months to be weened. One thing you don't want to do,is destroy the close bond,you've established,by breast feeding your baby all these months.He has an enormous amount of trust in you at this time.Trust that you will be there for him when he needs you.Forcing him to cio will only cause him to feel you've suddenly abandoned him after all these months of closeness.You already started weening him,when you introduced solids.This is part of the process.It's of course always been easier to breast feed,to satisfy his hunger,than to warm up solids and try to get him to eat better, but getting him to be a better eater,will help you ween him.You need to introduce more variety,and encourage him when he eats well.If you haven't already,I'd start eliminating the breast during the day,and teach him to use a sippy cup.Make his night time feeding the last to go.You don't have to try every milk on the market. Stick with one.Milk is fine,unless he shows a bad reaction to it. He could be turning his nose up at everything you give,because its been changed up on him,and hes afraid to taste another.He still needs to feel that closeness to you in the evening,so make sure you give him that lovey time in the evening,before he goes to bed.Find A favorite stuffed toy,or blanket to help soothe him. I wish you and your darlin son the best. J. M

J.,

I agree with Sophie and a few of the other posts (not the first). So I won't repeat the same advice.

Just remember, children won't let themselves go hungry. They aren't capable of that yet. So wean him however you choose and he will eat. He may test you for a few days, but then he'll eat.

Second thing to remember, don't look at what your son eats in one day. Look at what he eats for the week. We all have days that we aren't hungry or crave only one thing. But as long as he's eating good over a weeks time, then you're okay.

Hope that helps and good luck!
~A.

Hi J., This may now harsh, I apoligize if it does, but just need to stop nursing him. Anything you do everyday, several times a day for 17 months will become addicting, or a habit. The plus with bottle feeding at one year old you can get rid of it, it's gone, the breast will always be there and at 17 months old he will go after it even in public. Waking up at night as long as you go in there even once and you don't nurse him he will still continue to wake up, because he knows you will go in. I know a lot moms out there in mamasource land think I am against breast feeding, I am not, But when it controls your sleep, your schedule, and the child is old enough to use a spoon, fork and a cup, it becomes more about habit, and not nutrition, becasue breast milk can go in a bottle and can go in a cup. I had my baby's sleeping through the night at 6 weeks. Give him a nice feeling snack before bed, Cereal is really good for that, and he should not need to eat again until breakfast. If I came across harsh I do apoligize, I have just read so many of these's with these same issues, I have given so much of the same advice over and over, I get things like I'm harsh, or i'm against breast feeding, or, here's a very popular one things have changed since I had my baby's yea they have parents are xhausted. so with all that I wish you well. if you get firm and completely stop going in his room at night, it will probably take several nights, but he will learn, but for anything to change this habit has to be stoped, if you want somthing different you have to do something different. I don't know everything, but I have been a mom for 25 years, I have been married for 28 and I've been a daycare provider for 12, so I have had a lot of experiences over the years, that I love and can share with young new moms, it do it with my daycare moms all the time, and they are doing things in 2009 that I did in the early 80's mainly becasue they are Military mommies and they have to get up early to drop their baby's off with me and they can't afford to be up all house of the night nursing baby's. My youngest mommy is only 19 years old. again I wish you well. J.

your son should not be hungry since babys no longer need to eat at night after about 3 mo. many will take food when offered but it is no longer a need. i recommend comforting him without nursing however hard that is for you it will be better in the long run if you get him to sleep thru the night. after he is used to that then i would do the 5 min cry it out. than 10 min. 5 min increments up to 25 he will get it but any inconsistancy and it will take longer. good luck