I Want to Draw a Line in the sand...should I?

I had a hard time helping my dad with my mom but for different reasons. Still the end result was the same, I only did what I was physically or mentally able to do. Really the mental was harder than the physical.

You need to know when you need to back off and do it without feeling guilty. Right now it sounds like you need to back off. That way this frustration won't build up to the point where it is with you all the time.

Once an addict, always an addict.

Just b/c an addict isnt using doesn't mean they are still not addicted to it.

It's an addiction. She may be somewhat powerless over needing a cigarette.

Not being a smoker, I don't understand. But I've watched people try to quit and understand that it ranges from "not easy" to "damn near impossible". And stress would make quitting that much more difficult.

Cut her some slack.

It definitely is an addiction, I'm sorry you can't get yourself to grasp that. Ask any addict how easy it is to overcome an addiction. This is why you see those intervention shows where people go into rehab, get over the withdrawal but then go right back to it after some time. Its an addiction. Just because her body isn't going through withdrawals does not mean she is over the addiction. I know a guy who quit smoking about 6 years ago (maybe more) but he admits that the temptation to smoke is still VERY strong. He has not given in because he knows if he does, he will go right back to smoking like he used to. Addiction is something you have to overcome every day.

I think you need to cut her a break.....

i understand your frustration. You're angry at her because you are all being affected by her actions. You want to protect your dad. But at the end of the day, throwing out an ultimatum just puts your dad in the position to have to choose sides and he will end up having to defend her. You risk isolating him, not her.
It sucks to feel helpless. I know, I would start trying to find the root of the problem. This lady is not eating - why? She is not trying to get healthy - why? Is there a deep depression or something worse going on? Smoking is the least of this ladies issues. She sounds suicidal - she's just choosing the long slow painfiul road to death. Is anything being done about her state of mind?

Addiction is a disease much LIKE cancer, which you say you would be understanding about. Anorexia and smoking both fall under that category. I agree, cut her some slack.

As far as your Dad's situation, are you seriously suggesting that he leave his wife because she can't stop smoking?

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this stress, and maybe you're just lashing out, but try to calm down and gain some perspective.

OK, you've had your vent. This is a fairly safe place to have it.

How hard is quitting cigarettes, really? Excellent question. Your dad's wife has an addiction. That means it controls her - she doesn't control it. You're right - she is a junkie. One my my best friends from college (and I'm not going to say how long ago I went to college) stopped smoking after she married. Decades later, although she hasn't touched the stuff, she says she still has a desire for cigarettes. My husband, who quit smoking nearly twenty years ago, says the same.

So cut her a little slack mentally and emotionally, if you can. But don't give her cigarettes, and don't let anyone else do it (if possible). When she asks/begs/whines/orders, realize that it's the addiction talking.
Addictions are one thing that can make people into losers. Every day, every hour, every five minutes she can go without cigarettes, she is being a winner instead.

You've obviously never been a smoker. For someone with that heavy of a smoking addiction, a month is NOTHING! My dad smoked up to two packs a day for 25 years. He has not smoked in 3 years, but still says whenever he sees someone smoking, he inhales with them, pretending to smoke... Let her whine about it, sometimes talking about it will help a craving. Just don't give her cigarettes.

I don't blame you for being frustrated. Nothing worse than someone who creates their own health problems and doesn't even have insurance and then seems to be trying to make their health worse. I do agree with people that she likely still has a strong craving for cigarettes though. I think it takes years and years to go away but never even entirely does. So a month isn't all that long and it's her comfort so she's not even keeping herself busy as a distraction. Can she do nicotine patches?... So that's one issue. Next issue is - why did your dad marry her? She sounds like a loser to be honest or is there more to her? Does he love her? If she gets better, is she worth being married to? As your "step mother" you're not obligated to her but probably feel obligated to your father. I'd sit down and talk to him about how he feels. Does he want out or does he see good things in her and loves her? Does he have the desire to draw a line in the sand? Figure out where he wants to be and then you decide what you can or can't support.

I have my own, less harmful, addictions, and if I'm going through a challenging or painful event, I personally can't always say no. Example: I'm 10 years diabetic and controlling my blood sugar through very strict dieting, but sometimes I must have the comfort of chocolate. Most of the time, I can keep myself from thinking about it. But I cannot envision having to live the rest of my life never enjoying chocolate again, and it's nowhere near as addictive as nicotine. Just realizing how powerful this relatively shallow addiction is, I can barely imagine the will power it would take to willingly eliminate one of the strongest addictions experienced by humans.

And your MIL has been "cornered" by circumstance into giving up her habit. To be truly successful at conquering an addiction, we have to choose it, and follow through from our own resources. Your MIL has not made that choice. She may not be able to.

My grandmother smoked for many years, tried many times to quit, finally succeeded, but told me many years later that she had to fight the cravings daily. The very hardest times for her were when she should smoke least – when she was feeling miserable from some illness. She managed to avoid smoking, but admitted that it was almost beyond her will, and the effort was really draining. She felt diminished and depressed during those times, and part of the depression, in her understanding, was that she couldn't even have this one "little" thing to comfort herself. If she had just a tad less willpower, she would have taken up smoking again on several occasions.

My grandmother has been dead for over 25 years now, but still has my deepest admiration for her tremendous strength, courage, and sheer will. We're not all put together that way – I don't seem to be, in spite of my wish that I were.

I also had a middle-aged friend who died of lung cancer. He could not stop smoking, even as he approached death. He wanted to, and beat himself up for his weakness, but he could not stop. He was an admirable person, loved by those near him, in spite of this particular weakness.

So I hope you won't let this weakness that your MIL is expressing color your whole picture of who she is. Apparently, your father finds something in her worth his love and support. You have every right to decide whether you can be there to support him by helping her. That's really up to you.

I suspect that there is almost certainly more to your MIL than the lazy, careless person you have described. I've yet to find a person, even someone I don't like, who is that one-dimensional.

It's even possible that her medical problems, which have altered her body chemistry, have changed her brain chemistry in ways that are beyond her control. We don't blame people with mental illness for their inability to make better choices. And while many addictions are freely chosen at the very beginning, the user seldom has had any idea about how powerful that addiction will become, the possible future consequences, or even the reasons she has chosen to dabble in the first place.

So, my suggestion to you is that you look clearly at YOUR needs, and follow them. You may discover that supporting your dad is one of your needs, perhaps to the point of learning to deal with your judgements of your MIL. I'm finding this to be true of my mother, who treated me and my sisters abysmally during our childhoods. Yet now that she's becoming physically and mentally weak, I find I have a need to help care for her. Big surprise to me. But it's about who I am, not who she is. And I know I would, in the end, dislike myself if I were to turn my back on her now. So this is what life has handed me, and I'm surprised to find myself growing into the challenge.

I skimmed the previous answers and didnt see anyone mention this, so here goes. sorry if it's a repeat! have you investigated e-cigarettes? my husband has been trying to quit smoking (off and on!) for the last 30 years, and the e-cig has been the biggest help. I think it's because he still gets to hold something in his hand and see "smoke" come out the end. a major part of addiction is finding something to fill the time that used to be spent on the addictive behavior and going thru the motions of participating. having something that mimics a cigarette might be a big help to her. I know its hard to not have control over this situation, but drawing a line isnt going to help your dad. call your county and see what services are available, call a senior services agency and see whats available, call the hospital she was at and ask what services are available. your dad's gonna need you. good luck!

So....don't give her cigarettes.

Really, what other answer would you like?
Tell her NO. Hopefully your bro & dad will remain strong in this as well.

You know what they say---love the sinner.....hate the sin.

The issues with her smoking have been addressed pretty thoroughly so I won't add to it.

What I will add is that if you draw that line in the sand be prepared to be standing behind it all alone. I rarely think ultimatums are a good idea unless you are FULLY prepared to LOSE. Most people aren't, so I don't suggest them. Not to mention it's not YOUR decision to make if she lives there or goes and lives with her mother. It's your FATHER'S decision if he wants to give your step-mother an ultimatum about eating, smoking and pain meds.

Definitely look into SSI disablity and all that comes with it, it may help with some of the burden of care. Talk to a social worker for what OTHER options your dad might have to help ease some of the burden of care and the costs.

And last but not least ... I broke my ankle last year and took pain meds for 3 solid months ... for a sugically repaired broken ankle and I didn't have a pic line. I can't imagine if I had been made to stop taking the meds before then.

I dont know what to say other than... both of my grandma's quit smoking after a major medical scare ( my one grandma actually died twice on the operating table), in the hospital for extended stays... came home to thier regular surroundings and back into thier regular habits and both of them up to the day they passed away said they fought cravings daily. They chose not to start again but struggled daily with it... one for 8 years one for 13 years. Some might not be as strong as others to fight off the cravings... have her talk to her dr and see if they can give her a very low dose nicotine patch to help with the cravings ( one grandma wore one for a year after her stroke to help) even though its out of her system physically its not mentally.

Good luck and I hope things get better soon!

I'm surprised at how little empathy you got here, from people who seem to expect you to give alot of it (when it sounds like you and your family have *already* given so much).

You didn't ask for any of this, and you didn't have a choice in whom your dad chose as his life partner.

The only choice you do have is whether you will continue to help your dad, because that's what you're really doing and that's how you have to look at it.

If it were me I'd do what I could, but I would not drag down my husband or kids in this situation. I would even offer to chip in on helping to pay someone to be there (if I could afford to do so). But the minute I can't function well with my own family, that's where I pull back a bit as far as doing it myself.

I'm so sorry that you all are going through this . . . :(

Your dad is an adult and this is his life and his marriage. There is nothing you can do except stick to not giving her cigarettes. She is being very selfish but there is nothing you can do to change that. Your dad made a choice to marry her and he is the one to say 'enough is enough'. He needs to tell her he expects her to act like an adult and follow doctor's orders. She is being a burden and that is not fair to her husband.

Good luck. I know you are frustrated. I would just stay out of it and let those 2 work it out. Trying to rescue your dad will only drive your blood pressure higher and drive you crazy. This is just my opinion.

He loves her... this is what people do. She needs some sort of support group. It was easy for her not to smoke in the hospital, but now she is bored and back in her element so she wants that cig again. It can be very, very hard for some to quit. While a lot of what she is going through is cigarette related, not all of it is. This is her choice, not your dad's, he is there to love and help her, so don't punish him. It would likely break his little heart to walk away from her. Really, it sounds like she needs a prescription to help her craving AND tactics to help her quit. A home caregiver to come by to help would be good, are they on Medicare or anything?

My dad had leukemia, so I have seen the hardship firsthand dealing with loved ones, and the constant pic lines and dressings and everything, where the family essentially becomes the home nurse. I would see people outside the hospital doors, dressed in hospital gowns, iv poles and iv's all over them, a freaking trach hole in their necks, and they are still out there smoking, even in the freezing winter. Sad, but true.

my DH quit about 15 years ago...& still has occasional cravings. It's an addiction, & until you personally go thru it....you will never "get" it.

yes, she should be stepping up to the plate....but that's not her personality. She is your dad's wife.....& his choice & responsibility.

Please do not make his life any harder by drawing lines in the sand. He needs your support, understanding, love, & empathy.

He does not need any additional emotional stress. Please put him first.

Besides the addiction to nicotine, it is also a behavioral addiction. Yes, she is still addicted. Some people never can beat this. My mom has quit smoking so many times in my life but she always misses it and wants a cigarette, even if it has been a year or two. She always ends up going back again. Anyway, this is your dad's wife. He loves her and he has vowed to take care of her and be with her always through hard times and good. This is one of the hard times. I'm so sorry that your dad is having to go through this, but this is the kind of thing that starts happening once your parents get older. Your dad's wife sounds like she needs a nutritionist, counseling, and behavioral therapy.

My grandmother was like this. It frustrated my mother to no end -- the endless drama, the wanting of things that she knew were bad for her, the being "taken care of" by everyone around her. She was addicted to prescription pain meds. Over the course of 10 years my mom oversaw her going to rehab, getting her clean, etc. 4 times. Each time she would go behind everyone's back to a crooked doctor to get her "fix" with a prescription.
She's addicted, but at this point it's just a psychological addiction -- the need to fill that habit of lifting the cigarette to her mouth. Maybe she could try an e-cigarette with one of the non-nicotine inserts. If you got her the pancake one, maybe she would get motivated to eat. :)

You can draw a line in the sand -- but in this case you will probably just leave your dad and other siblings holding up the part you had been doing. More helpful would be to say these things to her as tactfully as you can. And then, help her because it helps your dad -- and from your post you really want to help your dad.

Two things....give her a break....don't you think if everyone had nicotine out of their system in 3 days....most of the population would have already quit smoking. There is much more to it than that. Go to the hospital...they have funds set up for people who can't afford to pay...you can at least inquire about it. Also there is Medicaid for those who can't afford to pay. I wouldn't want my poor daddy working himself to the bone either...because there will never be a light at the end of the tunnel as far as medicial bills are concerned. Good luck!

Addiction aside, she obviously has other mental health issues. She desperately needs to see a psychiatrist. I'm surprised her doctor or the hospital didn't bring that up already.

It may be that her care is more than your family can handle, and your dad needs to discuss things like temporary nursing home care. My neighbor broke her hip and has been in a nursing home/rehab until she could be home without the constant care. Her son could not provide it, as he is not local and works FT. I think that for your dad, this may be the best option. They can pack her wounds, monitor her eating and keep her away from cigarettes, but he can still visit and see her. My grandmom went to see my grandfather (who had Alzheimer's) every day for lunch. They may also offer caregiver support for when she can go home but might need some help. They may also help support her through breaking her addictions. He should talk to her doctors.

The other thought I had is does she have any eating disorders? She might, with the very little eating thing and it may also factor into her smoking (mistaken belief that it contributes to weight loss).

Has she REPLACED the smoking with anything? If her hands and mouth are empty and her mind is spinning in circles she needs a new habit(s).

Gum, tic-tacs, crochet or knitting or cross stitch or cross word puzzles or Soduku or computer games or something......
Take the money she used to spend on cigarretes and hit Hobby Lobby and the groceery storee.....

This is ADDICTION and you just don't understand it.

It is wrong. And she should not be allowed to have them, but there is more to addiction then chemicals! Its how you cope with pain, fear, and emotions in general.

It isn't fair, but honey its not YOUR choice to make. Its your dad that has to lay down the law with her. You can't make him do it. You can set boundaries for what you're willing to do to help him out, but you can't set boundaries on what their relationship should be.

Hang in there with your dad, don't get upset with him. Be a strong support and encourage him to set boundaries, but don't demand it.

I know this is tough, my family has struggled through addiction as well. Detox is not the way to over come addiction, they have to learn new coping skills and deal with their issues as well as detox. And that takes professionals and THE ADDICT being willing to do it.

Best wishes!

my grandma died from lung cancer. I brought her home from the hospital once after radiation and chemo and she was digging through all of her drawers to find a cigarette. My mom smokes cigarettes STILL even after watching her mom die from the same habit! Frustrating.... absolutely! Only you know what you are capable of doing or not doing, but whatever your decision... find a way to have some peace with it...

I don't think you can do much here except not to give her cigarettes.
At 86 lbs and with all the other problems she's got going on, I'd suspect cancer was lurking somewhere and it's only a matter of time before it turns up.
I had a friend endure 3 years of repeated painful kidney stones and then was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
He tried to quit smoking over and over but just could not do it.
Towards the end all they could do was give him pain killers and he withered away very quickly.
He had no appetite - something about cancer turns off your desire to eat.
If she gets to the point where she's terminal, she might as well smoke.
It'll be all she has left.
In the mean time, just help your Dad out as much as you can.

why did she not have health insurance? that is a major problem. i would get her on a health insurance asap. your dad should pay the min payments towards medical bills and not worry about the crazy amounts that he will end up oweing. the best thing you can do is relax. your father chose her, he knew what she was all about and took it on. support your father and stop stressing over other peoples problems. dont allow them to become your problem. i agree with distancing yourself from them but i would not cut them off entirely. people do this type of behavior all the time. its unhealthy and draining . just back away. i would still visit but not baby sit for her.

The addiction issue has been addressed, I hope you take it to heart. 72 hours would be fantastic for nicotine addictions but it doesn't work like that.

I can speak to horrible gastric ulcers that I had for TEN MONTHS before I was finally hospitalized. Stupid me. I was 38 years old, had spinal fusion surgery when it developed and vomited or simply didn't eat (that was easier) and lost over 1/3 of my body weight. I thought I was a smart person, heck I worked at medical schools every day. It was very scary to eat even after.

Your dad married her, is he suppose to leave her now? Yep, they should have had insurance. It is awful to be stuck with medical bills, hopefully he can work with the hospital on them.

http://www.encorevapor.com/
purchase the lesser kit for her - tell her she either invests in herself and makes the change or you can no longer invest in her. It took me 2 days to stop reg cigs and 3 months to quit all together. Much cheaper (to help with the med bills) it's about 20/month vs 200/mo and healthier over all. I think that is a line you can draw with out feeling like you did not give her an honest chance.
Here is the definition of addictio and a whole Wiki page on it - she is addicted - I am still addicted but found a better way to handle it when I need it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

i am not a smoker and never have been. not one cigarette. but i can tell you smoking is not just about nicotine. so even if she has been flushed out, the habit is still there.
not that i think she should smoke, i am just saying theres more to it.

I understand you feelings about smoking. But I went through this with my mom before she died. There is also a psychological addiction to cigarettes also. The last times before her stroke if she would even try to quit she attempted suicide. After this the only time she didn't smoke was when in hospitals or in the last home she was in. I am not saying it isn't possible for her to quit but she actually has to want to. Otherwise all you and the family can do is either accept it and continue supporting your dad and her or cut the ties. My thoughts are with you in your decision making. Feel free to contact me.

M.

I haven't read the other answers, so sorry if I'm repeating, but has anyone considered anorexia? Many anorexics will use cigarettes and/or medication to "quiet" their hunger. Now that she's not smoking, or taking too much OTC painkiller, she might be hungrier than she's used to being, and terrified. There's a difference between not taking care of yourself and having an eating disorder, and letting yourself get down to 86 pounds, while your digestive system turns on and dissolves its own tissue, sounds like an eating disorder. All smokers worry that they'll gain weight, but she might be terrified beyond all reason. Traditional stop smoking tricks like sucking on hard candy also won't appeal to someone desperate not to gain weight.

Ask her doctor(s) if she's been screened for anorexia. If not, seriously consider having her see an eating disorders specialist, someone who will see through any lies or deception typical of anorexics. If the root cause of all these problems isn't addressed, it won't get better.

Good luck! Hang in there!!!

Addiction has a mental component that's as strong as the physical one; you have obviously never been through it before. Why do you think so many recovered alcoholics drink again? Or recovered drug users use again? My mom has smoked on and off for 50 years. She quits, but whenever she's under stress she starts again. Why? Because smoking calms her down, it's how she deals with stress. Sounds like your dad's wife does too. My husbands grandmother died recently. She was a lifelong smoker with severe emphasema, it's what killed her. She smoked till the day she went into the hospital the last time. She wanted to quit. She detoxed countless times when she was in the hospital, and every time she started smoking when she got out. She knew it was killing her, but she didn't know how to quit. Cut your stepmom some slack, your attitude is surely stressing her out even more which perpetuates the addiction cycle. If you need to go to an al-anon meeting, they can help you understand what she's going through and how you can best help her.

Smoking is also a mental addiction, not just he addiction to the nicotine. Take it from an ex smoker (5 yrs quit) who still wants a cigarette.

I am glad your not part of my family, you sound like a really selfish, hateful, unsympathetic person. I wonder if it was your father on the bed would you still feel that way? Would you be hollering about how he is dragging your stepmother down? Doubtful

Okay, breathe. Have you ever bitten your nails and stopped then found yourself biting them again? Behaviors are hard to change, especially if you have been doing them a long time. It took a mini stroke and cancer for my father to quit smoking. I truly believe he would have started again if he had not had another a few months later that did cause some loss of use of his hands.
One thing you could do is setup an appt with your dad with the dept of human serv. Even though there is income, your step mom could probably qualify for some kind of assistance, both monetary and nurse. Maybe they can get someone out to help since she requires care. Or maybe, since this is medical care, she can move into a place to provide it. Not sure how that would go with your dad. My mom was able to get assistance with my dad so defintely worth looking into.
And whenever she wants that cigarette, tell her no. Then if you have to ,go to another room.