I picked the kids up from school yesterday, and after we got home, my son in 1st grade was telling me about his day. He told me he was in the bathroom at lunch recess going potty in the urinal. Another boy, whom he does not know personally, came into the bathroom and said to my son, "you wanna fight?". My son told him no. They boy started hitting and kicking my son. He said he didn't know what to do and said "mom, this kid was jacking me up!". Unfortunately, I didn't expect that wording and it actually made me laugh. I told him I was sorry and wasn't laughing at what happened, but the choice of words he just used. I know, bad mommy moment. But he laughed a little himself, which lightened his mood, and he didn't seem to be too terribly upset about me laughing or about what happened at school. He said he thinks he knows what teacher the kid has, but doesn't know his name. If he is correct, the kid is actually in Kindergarten so I'm pretty surprised a Kindergartner would be bold enough to do this. Though, being a mom, nothing should surprise me anymore.
I've never been in this situation before, and honestly didn't know what to say, let alone if I should pursue anything with the school. I told my son that fighting is wrong and he did the right thing by telling the kid no when he asked if he wanted to fight. I also told him, he shouldn't hit him back, but go find a teacher and tell them what happened because he would end up getting in trouble with the school if they found out he was fighting. He said he didn't hit him back and just tried to get away instead. Later in the evening my boys were at a church function, and my husband and I were having dinner. I told him what had happened and what I told my son (his step son) to do. He didn't agree. He said if someone starts coming after one of our kids to fight, that we need to teach them to defend themselves. I said, but then they could get in trouble too, and he said it didn't matter, not if they didn't start it. I have no idea what to think right now. My husband has a point, I don't want my kids to be bullied around, but I don't want them to get in trouble for fighting either. If a teacher would have come in and found him fighting in the bathroom, it would be his word against the other kid, and they both probably would have gotten in trouble. Also, my son is very tall for his age, almost as tall as his brother who is in 3rd grade. He's probably one of the tallest kids in 1st grade. So I feel like he has to be careful because he could actually come across as being the instigator or bully, simply because of his size.
So, how would you handle? And would you let it go, or contact the school about the incident?
Thanks for the responses. I did end up emailing his teacher about the incident and followed up with a phone call to the front office. The front office staff said the teacher would need to respond to me and we left it at that. She did respond and said they would look into it. I just received a final email that she said the Kindergarten teacher spoke to both boys together and is handling the consequences for the student. She didn't elaborate but said she appreciated my son informing them of the situation and there shouldn't be any future problems. I do feel like a little more detail would have been nice, but I'm going to let it go since it sounds like they are handling it. As for my son (or all our kids for that matter), my hubby and I need to talk about this and then talk to our kids about bully's and what they should do in the event they get bullied...in his case, again.
I also do want to mention that our 3 older kids are in Sorenji Kempo (a form of martial arts) and have been for close to 3 years. They go twice a week and have advanced through many belts, working toward their black belt. We do plan to enroll our two first graders after Christmas, for the winter session, after they both turn 7, which is the age minimum for the class. So, he will be starting martial arts in January.
I told my daughter never to start a fight, but that if someone else threw the first punch, to fight back and fight dirty.
I always told my kids to walk away from a fight if possible....but if someone insists on starting it, I want them to be the ones to end it. No rules - fight back hard and dirty :)
Sign him up for Martial Arts. A good martial arts school will teach him how to defend himself without fighting.
Bullies tend to be cowards so when someone actually confronts them or back down they don't know how to react. They will often back down.
You told your son the right thing but should also elaborate that if getting away without fighting back is not possible, he should defend himself. Defend himself does not mean stay and continue to fight but block, hit back, etc as necessary to get away...then tell the closest adult/teacher immediately.
You should reach out to the teacher today (phone call, email, or in person) and make her immediately aware of the situation. I am a fan of email because there is a paper trail in the event that this escalates. Simply tell her that you wanted to make her aware of a situation, explain your son is not hurt this time but you want to be sure it doesn't escalate and tell her what your son told you and ask that she keep an eye out for future incidents.
Sounds like it's been handled, but I have to admit your sons reply made me laugh also... :)
Self-defense isn't the same thing as fighting back. Admittedly, they seem to have the same actions involved. But defending yourself isn't the same as being aggressive toward someone else. So I think you and your husband are both right.
Meanwhile, I'd talk to the teacher about the occurrence.
I would prefer my child got in trouble for fighting than to be someone else's punching bag. I agree with your husband. My kids have been taught not to be bullied and to always defend themselves and those weaker than the bully. Once again, getting in trouble would be the last of my concerns.
If this were me, i would probably let it go this time unless it happens again, then i would report it. Who knows, this could be a one time isolated incident. I have always taught my kids to try and walk away if someone tries to start conflict with them and then if they keep egging it on still try to walk away, but if someone lays a hand on my child, i have also taught them to defend themselves by hitting back. i have told them never hit someone first, if they hit you first, you hit them back.
Hi J.,
so sorry to hear about this. i understand your husband's perspective but, in my experience, kids this age cannot and should not be expected to broker their own solution to this sort of situation.
I would absolutely call the school and speak with a teacher and or administrator. I would also keep a paper trail of their responses, which might mean emailing rather than calling. My son's school has a zero tolerance policy on touching and we have been both on sides of that coin over during elementary school.
I agree that more supervision is required. I also would say that for this kindergartener to be so aggressive, especially with a child he doesn't know, should be a red flag to the school and to his parents who have got to be part of this conversation.
I hope the boys and the school can use this as a learning opportunity going forward. Thoughts to you as you navigate this. S.
Since both you and your husband are both concerned for your son's safety, I would give the teacher a heads-up and tell her exactly what happened. Then ask, "how do you like the kids to usually handle this? We are at a bit of a crossroads as to how to advise him. My husband would like him to stand up for himself physically, however, I want to ensure that all the kids stay safe. What would you like for him to do if this happens again?"
This sort of question will give you the best information possible as to the teacher's expectations. I also think that the teachers would want to know that kids are being harassed in the bathroom.
FWIW, my husband is tall and got picked on a LOT by smaller kids. That was back in the day: they would take a swing at him, he'd thump them, then they would be done and likely even be friends. All that to say, sometimes taller kids are a target, so it's good to get familiar with the school's policies and help your son manage these moments safely.
Most if not all schools have zero tolerance for fighting policies in place. Which means your child can get suspended or expelled for defending themselves. That's the reality. These policies and disciplinary actions should be explained in the student handbook. Might be a good idea to go over these policies with your son and your husband. If he wants your son to learn to defend himself, then he should take him to Tae Kwon Do. Part of the learning is how to deflect punches and kicks, which is a lot better than throwing punches.
I think he handled the situation ok. What he should have done was immediately told his teacher or another adult at school. Most schools want to nip this kind of behavior in the bud. And they really need to know which students have possible anger issues or are prone to violence so there can be an intervention.
I would email the teacher and let her know. If these types of bathroom incidents continue, they might have to be monitored while in the bathroom.
I would call the school and let them know what happened. You don't know for sure if it was a Kindergartener and you don't know if he hasn't done this to other kids.
As for fighting back vs. getting in trouble. What happens when they're in middle school? The whole situation takes on a scary element.
If I had boys I'd teach them to fight back when attacked. If you can't get out of the situation with words you need to defend yourself if somone's trying to jack you up.
I tell my kids to hit back - sorry, but they are not punching bags.
I'd have called AND emailed immediately when I got the news. This is in no way okay, and if you don't talk to the school, it's leaving it open to happen again.
Added: I am SO glad you emailed/called the school. The only thing I would say, is to follow up with the teacher and an email explaining what you understood was happening. That the K teacher talked to both boys and the situation was handled. I would also put that child's name in the email if you have it - just to cover your bases if it happens again.
Also, the school can RARELY tell you what happens to the kids who are punished. I was informed once that phone calls were made home, but that's the most I got. Normally my kids see what the kid has to do in school (no recess, write an apology, etc) but no more detail than that - and I appreciate that because I wouldn't want the world knowing if it was my kid that got in trouble.
I'd talk to his teacher and see what sort of supervision is going on during bathroom breaks.
Apparently there needs to be more.
If he fights back he is suspended, if he is involved in a fight he risks suspension too.
Yes, he should understand self defense, however that also comes with the responsibility of knowing when/how to use the skills. If he should be responding in a way, even in self defense, and hurts the other person he will be in major trouble.
School should be notified of the incident as well.
Your son should have immediately told school staff and should do so in the future.
Sorry. If someone hits my kids - they know they have EVERY right to defend themselves and hit back.
My oldest son is a Black Belt in Tae Kwon Do and started taking TKD when he was in first grade.
My youngest son is a high blue belt. He too started in 1st grade.
Your kid is NOT a punching bag. He needs to be able to defend himself. The school needs to be contacted and told what happened, when, where, who was involved, etc.
What I don't get? In our elementary school - it's a buddy system. No child is allowed to go out of the classroom alone. It's a set of 3. If they have to take a kid to the nurses office? Three go. If they go to the library - it's a trio. ALWAYS. Bathrooms are whole class (even for my 6th grader) and then some classes do a trio.
Get your son enrolled in a martial arts program...it's NOT just about fighting. It's about defending yourself, knowing what you are capable of and DOING IT.
Good luck!
He needs to know how to defend himself period. I do not condon fighting but if another kid started a fight id let them know its okay to fight back
Why on earth wouldn't you inform the school? They need to know. It doesn't mean the boy will be punished, but it should mean they will talk to him and tell him the rules and find out what might be going on. And if the boy is punished, so be it. Hitting and kicking someone who indicates they have no desire to fight seems like a punishable offense.
I'm up in the air about whether your son should have fought back. I guess if he wasn't really being hurt by the younger kid's hitting/kicking and was able to leave and find a teacher, then leaving is the right thing to do. Otherwise, tell him he is allowed to defend himself.
Good luck. I'm so sad that this is happening at so young an age.
Uh..yeah...someone punches or kicks my son? He knows he has a right to fight back. I always suggest O. punch, hard, to the schnozzola.
Unless a child is on his own in the world (walking to and from school by himself for example) there is simply no reason to fight back. At school, and adult is always around so it is always appropriate to say NO and walk away, and find an adult to handle it.
It's no different than at home. If his brother hit him would you want him to hit back, or try to solve the problem in another way? Wouldn't you want him to come to you rather than take matters into his own hands, literally?
Young children shouldn't be expected to defend themselves, that's a burden they shouldn't have to bear, they should be able to reach out to the adults around them.
Your little one doesn't need to start fights - he can just finish them.
He'll be a black belt soon enough. Hugs to him.
Children in Austin Public schools are not supposed to fight, zero tolerance..
IF they can get away without fighting great.
If they REALLY feel like they need to fight to get away, then whether they are suspended or not, I would allow that..
But our nephew knew that the rule was even one punch even if provoked, was suspension..
I agree that your son needs to learn to report things like this immediately to an adult IF his teacher is not around.. Lunch Monitor, front office, Librarian.. he should not be shy.. Also if he witnesses a person being hurt or bullied he needs to report it right away..
He did a good job handling this.. "Jacked up" so cute..
Walking away is always the best self defense.
Men will always say 'defend yourself.' That's just how they are programmed. But you are right, more than likely they would have *both* gotten in trouble if a teacher walked in while they were in the midst of it.
I agree w/ what BossFan said.
I would absolutely make the teacher aware that your son was punched in the bathroom.
My SS was harassed by a particular kid and got in trouble when the teachers caught them both arguing. DH first went to the teacher and principal and in the end he wrote them a letter stating that he was giving SS permission to deck the kid because the other kid would instigate and nobody was doing anything about it. After that he got a call from the other kid's dad asking DH what to do about the bully as the parents were at a loss. DH said, "I don't know, but tell him to leave MY son alone!" So we don't encourage fighting but if it's the last resort...
IMO, find out what the policies are on fighting and work within those parameters as much as possible. If there is a bullying report form (we have one that the school sent home), the look that over, too.
I agree with most of the previous posters. If they have an opportunity to walk away before it gets physical, they should. But I also tell my kids no one has the right to hurt them physically or emotionally. If someone hurts them physically then they do have the right to protect themselves and defend themselves and do whatever they need to do to make it stop.
I didn't read your whole post, but I would have your son inform his teacher what happened, and she can handle it from there. If any other incidents occur, I would go to the principal as his parent and do something.
As someone else noted: In many elementary schools, there is a buddy system for going to any bathroom that is located outside the classroom. Why did your son not have a buddy? (And what was this other kid doing there without any buddy?) After this I would ask the school whether there is a buddy system for bathrooms or other trips around school (in our schools it was buddies for everything including library visits, going to the main office, going to the clinic, etc. all the way through sixth grade!). If they say there is not, ask why not! There really should be a buddy system. And the counselor should be doing counseling lessons about bullying and about what is and is not tattling. Those lessons are very standard for counselors to give in all classrooms in the early weeks of school, especially in the early grades. I would ask the counselor directly if that is planned (and if not-- why not? Tell the counselor why it's needed!).
It isn't clear to me if your son told the teacher immediately or the next day or when --? You didn't mention his telling the teacher at all in the post but in the SWH you say that the teacher said thanks for your son telling her, so I'm not clear, and that's an important point.: If he didn't tell her right away, he needs to learn to do so. He may be in the trap of "don't tattle on other kids" but it's up to you and his dad to teach him: If someone including yourself is hurt or going to get hurt, you ALWAYS tell an adult. Always. It is not ever tattling to tell a teacher that someone whacked you or that someone whacked someone else and ;you witnessed it. If your husband is into "He should learn to fight back and not be a tattler," I think the teacher would want to set your husband straight -- kids have to learn that they need to talk to teachers. If your son did tell right away -- good for him.
You are right that if a teacher had walked in on your son defending himself with fists or feet, the situation would have ended up with both boys being disciplined, possibly even suspended -- in some schools a fight like that would get both children suspended. Yes, even in first grade or K. I agree that kids should be able to defend themselves physically but only as a final resort, because all too often, a child who is defending himself or herself will indeed end up in the same trouble as the aggressor, no matter who is truly the instigator. Your husband might say that it does not matter if your son gets in trouble for defending himself, but suspensions even in early grades stay on a kid's record if there's fighting involved -- at least they would here.
I would have contacted the school as you did. I am surprised that the front office was so dismissive about it. Many a principal would step in and work with the teacher and get back to you; your school instantly threw it on the teacher. Maybe the teacher is the first place to complain in your school but it sounds as if the front office didn't want to be bothered. Are you OK with a front office that doesn't want to be bothered?.....
Find out who the kid is, who his teacher is, and when and how he ends up crossing your son's path during the day (are they on the playground at the same time for recess? Different grades can end up on the playground at the same time, for instance). Know these things so that you can be more aware if this kid comes after your son again and will know exactly who your son's talking about, and you can ID the child to the teacher if your son won't.
Just wanted to say that she really can't give you more detail. Can't discuss it with other parents.
Sounds like your son has a good head on his shoulders!!
I would contact the school and let them know . This sounds like the seed of a bully trying to intimidate your child, and who knows how many other incidents have or will happen with other kids, if this isn't nipped in the bud. I feel that fighting back in school would eventually get your son in trouble, BUT, he should learn how to defend himself. I always told my kids and grandkids don't fight back, try to walk away first, if they follow you and try to take a hit ,then it;s open season. Usually it would happen after school right off the school grounds. Sometimes that's all it takes is to show a bully you won't be intimated and they'll leave you alone, others aren't so easily deterred. I would also suggest that you ask the principal or teacher to make Bullying a topic of discussion with the kids, what to do about it when it happens to them or someone else, whether they know them or not. And explain the different kinds of bullying.
As sad as it is to say, Bullies are here to stay, but, I hope one day, the world
will have less of them. They are people/kids with their own issues, the bullying is an external manifestation of the inner issues these people/kids have. Be proactive ! C. S.
You did everything correctly, and your little one handled himself well too.
My kids are in karate. With three of your kids in marital arts, I'm going to assume that your husband's reaction was emotional, and that he really does know that hitting back is not the first step of self-defense. No good dojo would back up his statement about fighting back in the scenario you described.
I would contact the school about the incident and would be sure to let them know that I had instructed my child to hit back and defend himself if it ever happens again. And that is exactly what I would have told my child. You never have to allow anyone to hit you and you need to stand up for yourself. If you do, you will not be the target of bullies. If you cower or just run and tattle, you're in for a long year. IMHO, it's just like a child hitting their parent - you have to nip it in the bud THE FIRST TIME.
Your son has to know how to defend himself I agree with your husband. Yes, he may get in trouble, but you can never be a punching bag.
Ye, he should always tell an adult, but they are not always around, esp in the restroom. If his teacher is a woman she isn't even allowed to go into the restroom. How can someone help him at that moment? Yes, he should try to leave, but what if his exit is blocked? The kid is pummeling him? He has to know it is okay to protect/defend himself. If he can leave, he should, but if not, he does not have to be abused.
I have also found, sadly, that not all teachers and administration do as they should. I mean come on people how many stories have we heard about on the news about things that happen to our children in school? How often the teachers know and do nothing about it? Saying that there isn't a need for a child to know how to protect themselves is being in denial.
My son,6, is a very sweet boy, and doesn't like to hit or be hit. I tell him to tell the teachers etc and you know what it doesn't always work! Another classmate was picking on him, he told the teacher she did nothing. I spoke to her and she said she would keep an eye out. They told him he has to "use his strategies" to solve the problem himself. I got a call that he hit this child and was in trouble. I told the teacher that was his strategy and that he would not be getting into formal trouble b/c we both came to her about the issue. He did not get into trouble. He had to protect himself. We don't expect adults to sit and take a beating, why our children?
No they shouldn't have to do this, but that just isn't the reality we live in.
Teachers are over-worked, schools are under staffed, some just don't care, we are a very litigious society and damn it, people including children, can be mean spirited.
I would let the school know what is happening. The need to know, it may be happening to other children. I would not let it go.
I would also teach my child how to protect himself.
Good Luck.
I would tell the teacher exactly what happened. The other kid need to be told that he can't just pick fights. He's a bully in the making.
Your son needs to be taught the school rules, which are to report the incident to an adult immediately. That's what he should have done when it happened. There would have been an opportunity for the adult to identify the other child and deal with the situation when it was fresh.
Your husband has a point when it comes to defending oneself when there is no other option, but getting away and stopping the behavior are paramount. Participating in fighting, whether the other kid started it or not, is a direct route to suspension, which your husband should be told. I'd consult with the school about their policy and what they want you to tell your son so that the child is hearing the same message at home and in school. Yes, the bigger child is likely to get blamed - but regardless, every child needs to be told what to do in a stressful, dangerous or emergency situation.
I'm happy to hear that you emailed the school and that the teacher is handling it. Giving you too much detail could get some parents way too involved - if the school settles it, then you've done your job and so have they. So I think you were wise to let it go even though your natural curiosity would have you learn the details. And I hope your kids are taking martial arts for physical fitness as well as mental discipline, without the focus being on fighting and self-defense. Too often, kids with a few skills from a few classes wind up using their techniques on a bully, and getting their own clocks cleaned because they are over their heads.
